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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by splatter on May 29, 2004, at 17:06:23
I've had some pretty severe depression with a twist of Social Anxiety for years, and it seems that everything that alleviates my issues gives me unbearable insomnia. I've used GHB, Rhodiola, mucuna pruriens, Sam-E, selegiline, GABA, L-Tyrosine - all these help my depression greatly. The trade-off is that they all keep me awake, and I have a hard time dropping off to sleep even with valerian root, kava kava, and benzodiazapenes. It seems like my metabolism gets stuck in the 'energized' gear, and I just can't relax at bedtime. What was pleasantly stimulating during the day becomes torture at night.
Can anyone relate? Why does my body rev up on things that act as sedatives to others?
Posted by btnd on May 29, 2004, at 20:01:40
In reply to Depression, meds and insomnia, posted by splatter on May 29, 2004, at 17:06:23
> I've had some pretty severe depression with a twist of Social Anxiety for years, and it seems that everything that alleviates my issues gives me unbearable insomnia. I've used GHB,
Ok hold on...you used GHB and had trouble sleeping? It is like the BEST MEDICINE out there for insomnia & not-only. But for insomnia it works every single time, 2x doses per night, I use 4g for sleep. And you wake up after 7 hrs totally refreshed and energetic due to GHB's dopamine rebound + making sleep more "deep" (it puts one direcly into 'delta' sleep, which is the most regenerating stage of sleep - that's why it works for narcolepsy - people with this condition have too little delta sleep and are unproductivie during the whole day, because of getting actually very little restful sleep (even if they sleep for 12-14 hours).
Also, the HGH release at that dose, being it 16x more than normally, definitely must have some anti-aging and more restful sleep activity.
> mucuna pruriens, GABA, L-Tyrosine - all these help my depression greatly.I've never heard of the first two being used as anti-depressants. Could you say a little bit more about: how much do you take? do you take all of the above together or seperately? What is the method of action of mucuna pruriens?
...benzodiazapenes.Have you ever tried Rohypnol (flunitrazepam), Halcion (triazolam) or Restoril (temazepam) ? Those are all 'hypnotic' benzodiazepines, useful especially for insomnia.
Or you could try high-doses of Xanax, Klonopin or Valium to help you sleep. Although it is not very wise to use benzodiazepins long-term, as the tolerance goes way fast, for its sleeping purposes. And you finally get to the point where a high dose doesn't work at all, and you need to escalate the dose-dependently down.
Posted by Impermanence on May 29, 2004, at 20:24:47
In reply to Re: Depression,SP and insomnia, GHB/benzos » splatter, posted by btnd on May 29, 2004, at 20:01:40
Benzodiazepines are a bad choice to help you sleep, they only make the problem worse in the end. I've taken flunitrazepam (now classed as a date rape drug)and nitrazepam for sleeping and all they do is make you dopey for a while then you need to up your dose. Zopiclone (tastes like shit) and stilnoct are much better (but not as effective) alternatives.
Posted by splatter on May 30, 2004, at 11:23:20
In reply to Re: Depression,SP and insomnia, GHB/benzos, posted by Impermanence on May 29, 2004, at 20:24:47
My post reflected a sample of herbs and drugs I've tried over the course of the last 5 years or so. I never took them togather - I'd try one, suffer from side effects, than go on to another. I know that GHB is often considered the perfect sleep aid by many, which is whymy results seemed so anomalous. Where most people pass out from taking high doses of GHB, I'd get slightly drowsy, but at the same time my heart would start pounding as if it was about to burst out of my chest. Is there such a thing as dopamine sensitivity? It seems like anything that raisese my dopamine levels revs my engine - raises my heartbeat. Actually, it's more that my heart pounds... not much faster than normal, but the contractions are very noticeable. It makes it impossible to sleep.
I also suffer from slight brain fog - I assume from chronic anxiety and depression. I tried Ativan to alleviate it, but I found it made me somewhat more confused, made it impossible to sleep, and gave me unbearable ringing in the ears, and something like auitory hallucinations - I woke up with conversations running through my head, and I had music 'playing' in my head all day. I caouldn't ignore it and it never stopped.
Anyway - what I'm hoping for is for someone to read this hodgepodge of symptoms and say "Ah! You have 'X' syndrome! Take 'Y' supplement and life will be peachy". Any input is welcome - I need to find something that will both give me the desire to continue living as well as allow me to function at work.
Posted by splatter on May 30, 2004, at 12:24:33
In reply to Re: Depression,SP and insomnia, GHB/benzos, posted by splatter on May 30, 2004, at 11:23:20
Apologies... the 'ativan' I referred to in the post above should be 'adderal'.
Posted by Carlos C on May 31, 2004, at 11:06:50
In reply to Re: Depression,SP and insomnia, GHB/benzos » splatter, posted by btnd on May 29, 2004, at 19:56:52
Some studies from GHB kit manufactures (when it was legal) show that there are two main, different reactions to a "therapuetical" dose. One causes sleep (non-depressed people) and activating (Those with clinical depression).
For me personally the correct dose of GHB is activating. I feel it's the best anti-depressant on earth. It also clears me of all anxiety while still allowing me to sleep at night.
Unfortunately those days are over since the US government and media has decided what is "good" for me.
Here's the claim about the that study;
An interesting puzzle surfaced while investigating the literature. Anecdotal evidence suggests what's called a bimodal response to GHB whereby there are two possible reactions to ingestion of it. A company supplying a GHB make-it-at-home kit, Centurion Aging Research Labs (CARL), supplies the following story. Apparently, a significant portion of their customers who purchased the GHB kit and tried the product complained that it didn't have the desired effect. Instead of giving them a pleasant, sleepy feeling, it tended to keep them up all night and didn't sedate them at all. Apparently, CARL investigated the complaints from a quality control perspective and tried to identify a flaw in manufacture, but even samples returned for analysis turned out okay. The puzzle went unanswered until one customer, who was on kit number three, called the company ask what they had changed. He stated that instead of his usual reaction to it (awake, increased alertness) he was feeling sleepy. That, of course, is the standard reaction. Representatives from CARL make a claim that there are two types of responses to GHB - one called the Euphoric GHB Response (EGR), the abnormal one, and the Somnolent GHB Response (SGR.) They discovered that those experiencing the EGR either were clinically depressed or had reason to believe that they were. If this is true, then GHB has enormous potential as a pathological detector of sorts. Anecdotal evidence also supports the idea that GHB can actually treat some symptoms as well. It would be very exciting to see some rigorous scientific studies done in this regard.
ref. http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_143.html
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