Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 350158

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?

Posted by Racer on May 24, 2004, at 13:01:57

I was taking Provigil to augment the antidepressants, and it was too stimulating. Lots of pressure to talk, etc. It was really creepy. When I stopped it, though, all the relief from the anxiety, agitation, depression, etc stopped as well. On top of that, since stopping it, I've been constipated beyond anything I've ever experienced. (And I'm otherwise unmedicated, and taking Metamucil several times per day.)

So, the other day I tried some Provigil again. (Self-prescribing from the leftovers from when I stopped it, and self-medicating and feeling guilty about it. SOMETHING had to be done to move my bowels and I didn't have access to any doctor until next week. It worked in a day.) Anyway, as well as relieving the GI distress, it has also flipped me into semi-functional mode. I don't think I can take it regularly, because of the overstimulation, but I wonder if there's something else that might do the good things, without being so stimulating?

FWIW, the tablets are 200mg, and I'm taking 1/4 of a tablet per day. Still too stimulating.

Thanks!

 

Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?

Posted by Bill LL on May 24, 2004, at 13:25:42

In reply to Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?, posted by Racer on May 24, 2004, at 13:01:57

I'm no expert on Povigil, but I wonder if you could try a lower dose.

 

Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder? Racer

Posted by Emme on May 24, 2004, at 13:27:22

In reply to Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?, posted by Racer on May 24, 2004, at 13:01:57

Try an eighth of a tablet? A crumb? I'm serious. Try getting it as low as you can and still feel benefits before ditching it entirely. I also find it very stimulating and have had to take microdoses.

Emme

 

Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?

Posted by scatterbrained on May 24, 2004, at 15:09:24

In reply to Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder? Racer, posted by Emme on May 24, 2004, at 13:27:22

Have you tried any of the other stimulants like ritalin,adderal,wellbutrin(which is more commomly used to augment an anti-depressant). For me personally,before my depression got as severe and untreatable as it is now, wellbutrin REALLY helped to augment my celexa, it made me anxious but there are plenty of meds to counter act that. In my opinion, why use a new and strange drug like provigil when docs have used wellbutrin to augment another antidepressant for years with MAJOR success. These doctors get so caught up with the what the lastest drug fashion is that they lose there objectivity,if they had any to begin with.

 

Thanks, and... (esp Emme)

Posted by Racer on May 24, 2004, at 17:16:19

In reply to Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?, posted by scatterbrained on May 24, 2004, at 15:09:24

Thank you all. Wellbutrin isn't an option for me -- history of head trauma, etc -- although one doctor put me on it and it really seemed to help. I haven't tried any other stimulants, but I'm now open to the idea. Any experiences on them?

Emme, my dear, how low a dose has worked for you without overstimulating you? When you say a "crumb" is that an eighth of a 100mg tablet, or just a literal crumb? And have you had any experience on any other stimulant, like ritalin, adderall, etc? Did those overstimulate you, too?

Gotta tell you guys, I'm afraid of how speedy this makes me. It's so incredibly wonderful to feel alive at all again, but then I'm talking too much, too fast -- ask me about anything, I'll tell you ALL about it -- but it's still a nice relief from the overwhelming despair I've been suffering from recently.

 

Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) Racer

Posted by psychosage on May 24, 2004, at 18:51:55

In reply to Thanks, and... (esp Emme), posted by Racer on May 24, 2004, at 17:16:19

> Thank you all. Wellbutrin isn't an option for me -- history of head trauma, etc -- although one doctor put me on it and it really seemed to help. I haven't tried any other stimulants, but I'm now open to the idea. Any experiences on them?
>
> Emme, my dear, how low a dose has worked for you without overstimulating you? When you say a "crumb" is that an eighth of a 100mg tablet, or just a literal crumb? And have you had any experience on any other stimulant, like ritalin, adderall, etc? Did those overstimulate you, too?
>
> Gotta tell you guys, I'm afraid of how speedy this makes me. It's so incredibly wonderful to feel alive at all again, but then I'm talking too much, too fast -- ask me about anything, I'll tell you ALL about it -- but it's still a nice relief from the overwhelming despair I've been suffering from recently.

Get 100mg pills. Try taking 25mg and then 25mg more 4 or so hours later, and do that for a month. Then try a 50/25 split or 50/50.

A lot of the side effects and excess speediness will go away completely within a month of daily dosing.

By then it should be working in the background.

 

Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) Racer

Posted by Emme on May 24, 2004, at 21:55:29

In reply to Thanks, and... (esp Emme), posted by Racer on May 24, 2004, at 17:16:19


> Emme, my dear, how low a dose has worked for you without overstimulating you? When you say a "crumb" is that an eighth of a 100mg tablet, or just a literal crumb? And have you had any experience on any other stimulant, like ritalin, adderall, etc? Did those overstimulate you, too?

I didn't like ritalin very much. It made me way too jittery.

I typically chopped 100 mg Provigil tabs into eighths, so that would be 12.5 mg. There have been some days when I could take 25 mg and then other days when I nibbled 12.5 mg in half. Because the tabs are hard, you can really do microsurgery on them!

In general, I find it makes me speedy - and really chatty. Actually, I wish I could keep some of that without feeling wired. It definitely brightens mood and has been a lifesaver on occasion. I never took it for more than a few days in a row because it wore me out. I never stuck with it long enough to see if that went away, as Psychosage suggested. So maybe the speediness would settle down. I haven't used it in a while. In the past year, when I've needed energizing quickly, I've used Selegiline.

Good luck!
Emme

 

Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme)

Posted by LastDyingWish on May 24, 2004, at 22:00:38

In reply to Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) Racer, posted by Emme on May 24, 2004, at 21:55:29

Emme, would you be so kind to share your experience with selegiline. Iam going to start it this week and need some advice on how much of a dose without overstimulation. anything would help

 

Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) Emme

Posted by Racer on May 25, 2004, at 8:52:48

In reply to Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) Racer, posted by Emme on May 24, 2004, at 21:55:29

I was on Provigil for a few months, before quitting all meds in disgust (long story), and the speediness just never eased. When I quit the Provigil, thinking that the antidepressants were kicking in and I didn't need the 'augmentation' it turned out that the only thing that was doing much was the Provigil. I did try taking it every other day, but then I was on a rollercoaster: way too speedy one day, then a total crash the next. That was at 50 mgs, roughly, or 1/4 of a 200mg tablet. In other words, for me at least, the speediness didn't go away with time.

Thank you for your experience. This seems to be the only thing that's helped me in the past year, so I'm hoping the doctor will give it a go and find something to work with it on the agitation and anxiety, rather than insisting on following through with his last decision which just ain't gonna happen. (Long story) If 25mg would keep the best of it, without the worst of it, that would satisfy me.

Part of the problem is that the doctor thinks I"m unreasonable about side effects. Sure, for a psychiatric patient to present the way I am now -- speeding out of my head, pressured speech, I'm even typing faster -- a psychiatrist can say, "well, it's just the drugs..." But in Real Life, I can't function like this. Aside from my own discomfort, I wouldn't be able to do anything that involved human or animal contact! While I'm likely to try the 1/8 tablet before going in to see him, I think I may take the full 100mg he had me taking on the day I see him -- just so he can get an idea of what I was complaining about. It's not a little discomfort because I'm stimulated, it's being HIGH AS A BLOODY KITE! I hope that seeing this, without the effects of the other drugs, he might understand that.

And, while this is the first time in months I've felt anything like myself, this is the Technicolor version of me if you know what I mean. I'm kinda joking about telling you EVERYTHING, RIGHT THIS MINUTE, but it's only a slight exaggeration. I can talk a lot anyway, and my mind goes in funny directions, but this is really absurd.

Thanks again.

 

Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) LastDyingWish

Posted by Emme on May 25, 2004, at 10:36:43

In reply to Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme), posted by LastDyingWish on May 24, 2004, at 22:00:38

> Emme, would you be so kind to share your experience with selegiline. Iam going to start it this week and need some advice on how much of a dose without overstimulation. anything would help

I haven't taken more than 10 mg and I've taken as little as 2.5 mg. More than 10 mg would be too stimulating. On really bad days when I couldn't move off the couch, it kicked in within a couple of hours. When it kicks in in such a short amount of time, I suspect it's just the result of it metabolizing to amphetamine. Which is fine as long as it get the job done.

It's been helpful no doubt. Some of my best days in the last year have been while on Selegiline. But I've had a tough time figuring out how to take it effectively. By that I mean that at times it's good and at other times it's too stimulating, though not as bad as other stims I've tried. And it seemed like after a little while my moods and energy levels were up and down on it. I don't know if that means it was starting to trigger some mood cycling as an MAOI, or if it was some sort of amphetamine poop out that reversed a bit when I lowered the dose. My pdoc's idea was to "spot treat" depression with it. And it's not a bad idea.

I went through weeks of horrid agitation this winter - I stopped taking it when the agitation set in. After things simmered down, I haven't gone back to it because I wanted to pare down my meds and we wanted to try memantine. That said, I keep it around, and I'd consider using it again. I think it's worth trying. I was more amenable to trying low-dose selegilne than the other MAOIs because I think I'd have a very difficult time adhering to the diet for various reasons.

Good luck,
Emnme

 

THANKS EMME (nm)

Posted by LastDyingWish on May 25, 2004, at 12:32:22

In reply to Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) LastDyingWish, posted by Emme on May 25, 2004, at 10:36:43

 

Re: Provigil low dosing Racer

Posted by psychosage on May 26, 2004, at 6:52:03

In reply to Re: Thanks, and... (esp Emme) Emme, posted by Racer on May 25, 2004, at 8:52:48

> I was on Provigil for a few months, before quitting all meds in disgust (long story), and the speediness just never eased. When I quit the Provigil, thinking that the antidepressants were kicking in and I didn't need the 'augmentation' it turned out that the only thing that was doing much was the Provigil. I did try taking it every other day, but then I was on a rollercoaster: way too speedy one day, then a total crash the next. That was at 50 mgs, roughly, or 1/4 of a 200mg tablet. In other words, for me at least, the speediness didn't go away with time.
>
> Thank you for your experience. This seems to be the only thing that's helped me in the past year, so I'm hoping the doctor will give it a go and find something to work with it on the agitation and anxiety, rather than insisting on following through with his last decision which just ain't gonna happen. (Long story) If 25mg would keep the best of it, without the worst of it, that would satisfy me.
>
> Part of the problem is that the doctor thinks I"m unreasonable about side effects. Sure, for a psychiatric patient to present the way I am now -- speeding out of my head, pressured speech, I'm even typing faster -- a psychiatrist can say, "well, it's just the drugs..." But in Real Life, I can't function like this. Aside from my own discomfort, I wouldn't be able to do anything that involved human or animal contact! While I'm likely to try the 1/8 tablet before going in to see him, I think I may take the full 100mg he had me taking on the day I see him -- just so he can get an idea of what I was complaining about. It's not a little discomfort because I'm stimulated, it's being HIGH AS A BLOODY KITE! I hope that seeing this, without the effects of the other drugs, he might understand that.
>
> And, while this is the first time in months I've felt anything like myself, this is the Technicolor version of me if you know what I mean. I'm kinda joking about telling you EVERYTHING, RIGHT THIS MINUTE, but it's only a slight exaggeration. I can talk a lot anyway, and my mind goes in funny directions, but this is really absurd.
>
> Thanks again.

all of that goes away, euphoria, pressured speech, the need for locomotor activity. Everything mellows out. If not in a month then two, but I promise it does, along with any nausea or dizziness/headache.

I had all the same symptoms even while on 1200mg of Trileptal.

Provigil is powerful, and I think the overwhelming stimulant effects and mood brightening do warrant more concern because they can seem like they only exist in hyperdrive. Fortunately, they don't last. The true and more modest theraputic effects will remain, and your appetite and decreased sleep {i experienced this} will go away too.

1) start at 25mg a day with an added OPTIONAL 25 at 4-8 hours later for two weeks

2) then try 25mg/25mg{4-8 hours later} and if you like to be bold do all 50mg at once for 2 months or stick at 50mg if the results remain optimal.

3) From here {depending on your med cocktail} you can stay at 50mg or do a 50/25 or just start out at 75mg for a couple of months until more effect is needed.

4)Then from there you can do a 75/25, 50/50 or be bold and just take the full 100mg which have tried, and I have been pleased with it. You can take 25mg bonus pieces at night if needed.

I think a regular low dose of 25-75mg makes for excellent antidepressant benefit though it may end up being short-lived for some.

Provigil is supposed to have some neuroprotective properties too for dopamine receptors.

 

Re: Provigil low dosing psychosage

Posted by Racer on May 26, 2004, at 11:34:06

In reply to Re: Provigil low dosing Racer, posted by psychosage on May 26, 2004, at 6:52:03


>
> all of that goes away, euphoria, pressured speech, the need for locomotor activity. Everything mellows out. If not in a month then two, but I promise it does


Thanks, psychosage. I know you promise that it went away for you, and I really appreciate that you want to reassure me during a hard patch. I was taking the Provigil for almost six months, and during the last month or two, even at the lowered dose, the speediness was actually getting worse. That's why I had to stop it, and that's when it became clear that the other drugs weren't nearly as effective as they'd seemed with the Provigil.

I started taking it again for reasons having nothing to do with mood, and was surprised by how much it did for my mood, so I'm continuing to take it until something better comes along or the doctor tells me otherwise. The 100mgs that I took for the first few days had me high -- not pleasant, but at least my kitchen is clean! -- and I'm taking the 1/4 tablet (+/- 50mg) now. It's got me calmer and I'm not speeding anymore. My mood has dropped a lot, but it's still better to be calmer and low than to be overanxious and even lower, right? The relief the Provigil has provided for the physical discomfort I took it for, combined with the mild mood elevation are enough for me right now.

The dosage thing and the speediness is, I think, one of those places where mileage is likely to vary a lot between individuals. I don't know what your build is, but that can be a factor, as can weight, gender, etc. I'm glad that the speediness went away for you, and I'm glad that the overdrive feeling has eased for me right now.

And I thank you for taking the time to respond to me. It's a hard time for me right now, and I really appreciate the support.

 

Re: Provigil low dosing Racer

Posted by psychosage on May 26, 2004, at 14:07:00

In reply to Re: Provigil low dosing psychosage, posted by Racer on May 26, 2004, at 11:34:06

yes, mileage varies. are you bipolar? what other meds do you take? I definitely feel Provigil has a "life is worth living" antidepressant effect.

just be careful that the provigil doesn't agitate you or cause any rage. My pdoc as adamant about reporting rage or psychotic symptoms.

good luck!

 

Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?

Posted by kemist on May 26, 2004, at 17:40:17

In reply to Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?, posted by Racer on May 24, 2004, at 13:01:57

You could try adrafinil.

kem

 

Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder? kemist

Posted by chemist on May 26, 2004, at 21:44:53

In reply to Re: Provigil too stimulating, anything milder?, posted by kemist on May 26, 2004, at 17:40:17

> You could try adrafinil.
>
> kem

hi there, chemist here....nothing in my refs in re: adrafinil. can you expand? all the best, chemist


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.