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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Laurajean on April 15, 2004, at 21:31:14
In reply to effexor withdrawal, posted by BitchChick on April 15, 2004, at 8:52:49
Hi everyone,
First, thanks for that link, whoever posted it. : ) This turned out long....please hang in there til the end of it!I am on probably the second or third week since stopping Effexor XR (300mg) after a two month taper. The physical symptoms are lessening--not gone, but better....thank goodness.
However, I would say I am experiencing some pretty intense depressive symptoms....I have crying jags frequently, irritability, and yes, self-harming and suicidal thoughts (nothing I would act on), hopelessness, etc. I was on effexor xr for probably four years, and on other meds before that for ten years. When I made the decision to taper off, it was because I have been absolutely symptom free for at least three years....and I saw no reason to stay on psychotropic meds w/o at least trying to go it alone. Keep in mind I've been on some form of meds since I was fourteen (i'm 28 now). I have largely recovered from anything diagnosable, and had no symptoms of depression, OCD, PTSD, etc. for years.
I am freaking out that I am relapsing into those disorders again ("going crazy"), although to be honest, I don't know what it would feel like, as it's been years since I've had any symptoms like that. I was only ON meds b/c I never bothered to come off and had no pdoc who wanted to try it w/me.
Is there an expected period of depression or other symptoms post-AD that isn't a true depressive episode? I know obviously I need to go back to the psychiatrist, but to be honest, if I list the symptoms I've been having, he's going to write out a script (or two or three) for other drugs, and I was doing SO well for years...I'm not convinced it's NOT just w/d, but I've definitely been caught off guard by all of this. I had no idea I would feel like this emotionally from coming off, and at teh same time, I figure my system has been medicated for some fourteen years, many of which I was heavily drugged, and so there may be a period of adjustment.
I have worked so hard in therapy to overcome the root of my disorders (trauma), and I have been doing well for so long, I just really thought I would be fine w/o meds. It's debatable according to my current therapists that I ever really needed them when I was 14, 15, etc. I never experienced any significant help from being on them, but when you're in a hospital system for years it's just what they do.
Anyone else who had psych symptoms as a result of w/d who didn't go back on meds? Or did? I'm not opposed to going back on something if I truly need it, but I would hate to do that too soon. I would feel very much reassured to know this may be a result of withdrawal rather than a true relapse into depression.
thanks for making it to the end of this!
laura
Posted by jiggitykid on April 16, 2004, at 7:50:18
In reply to Post-w/d psych symptoms.....pls help!, posted by Laurajean on April 15, 2004, at 21:31:14
>>>Anyone else who had psych symptoms as a result of w/d who didn't go back on meds? Or did? I'm not opposed to going back on something if I truly need it, but I would hate to do that too soon. I would feel very much reassured to know this may be a result of withdrawal rather than a true relapse into depression.<<<
I understand how you feel. First, congrats on making it this long!!!! All of us who have made it through this withdrawal should be congratulated. Next, I felt the same way you did. My doctor "strongly encouraged" me to take Lexapro during the first two months of my Effexor cessation. I couldn't. For me, I needed to know if my symptoms were withdrawal-related or were my depression, and I figured that if I took something else, then I'd not know. For me, it worked out that Effexor was the problem, and after about two months (after my last capsule), my personality began to heal and my "mood" stabilized. Now, each person is different and what worked for me might not be what you need. What helped me keep focused was reminding myself each time I cried or felt really "crazy," that this wasn't me. I had to be inordinately patient with myself (which is unusual for me :-D ). I would encourage you to journal and to keep very close contact with your doctor. I would also encourage you to seek support from family or friends. If you haven't already, you should direct them to this forum, have them read some of the testimonies from the archives, and help them understand that, right now, this is bigger than you. They need to know that you are surviving right now, and that they need to help you monitor your state of mind. Having the support and understanding of my family (especially my husband) made it easier to endure, and then to make the right decision once I had gotten to a place where I felt that the majority of the mood-altering or thought-affecting symptoms had gone. Please, take care of yourself. Your stress, tears, crankiness, etc., are all a "normal" part of this withdrawal. Again, journaling is a good way of keeping tabs on your thoughts. Be careful and be patient. There is a light at the end of this withdrawal tunnel.
Posted by kananee on April 19, 2004, at 1:15:20
In reply to Re: Post-w/d psych symptoms.....pls help! » Laurajean, posted by jiggitykid on April 16, 2004, at 7:50:18
Thanks to each of you for posting your personal experiences with Effexor w/d. I've spent the past few hours reading through the posts, starting with '99, and I'm really grateful for all the info.
This is my second time coming off Effexor -- didn't make it last time. It's a relief to know that the physical and emotional problems I'm experiencing are from the withdrawal. Last time -- less than a year ago -- I figured the emotional problems were because I was "unprotected" (MDD diagnosis). For some reason the physical problems weren't as bad then, and I didn't make the connection with withdrawal
A few of you mentioned IBS-type problems while on Effexor and as part of withdrawal. The main reason I am getting off -- this time for good!! -- is severe gastro-intestinal problems (chronic dysentary, stomach craps, nausea, etc.). But my psydoc is adamant that it can't be the Effexor (based, I guess, on the literature provided by the manufacturer).
My questions are:
(1) Does anybody have an idea how common the severe gastro-intestinal problems are as a side effect?
(2) Any opinions about if this particular problem is attributable to SSRIs/SNRIs (as some of the posts seem to suggest) or to something in the extended release aspect?
(3) My "IBS" problems haven't improved as I've gone down from 300 to 225 to 150 to 75 to 37.5 to 0. I've been at 0 for only 4 days, but still no improvement. I'm wondering now if this could be a permanent side effect from using the drug for 3-4 years.
I welcome any thoughts about or experiences with this particular problem.
Posted by Laurajean on April 19, 2004, at 10:47:32
In reply to Questions but no answers, posted by kananee on April 19, 2004, at 1:15:20
Hi there,
I'm sorry to hear about your IBS symptoms and the Effexor w/d....good job for making it this far, though!I am not sure about GI symptoms. I definitely had them coming off, and now thinking of it, I have been pretty messed up since I've been off (three weeks), but I have other chronic illness and so I assumed it was that. Ah, the joy of unspecific physical symptoms. Did the GI symptoms develop on effexor?
I am not sure about permanency, either. (sorry I'm not much help w/any of this, I guess!)..but I would think it might take a while for things to calm down. I have been off three weeks or so and I am still experiencing w/d symptoms, some severe.
It might also be important to rule out another cause for your symptoms....have you seen a GI specialist?
I hope it does improve or that you are able to find the source. I've been literally on every other SSRI out there (aside from newest) and never had GI complications with anything like I have Effexor. I also worry about permanent chnages in my sytem from the Efexor, and frankly, I doubt there is any reseearch at this point to show lasting side-effects.
Hope this helps...at least you know you're not alone!
Hang in there,
Laura
Posted by Markku on April 20, 2004, at 11:51:28
In reply to Questions but no answers, posted by kananee on April 19, 2004, at 1:15:20
I only had stomach problems for a few days, but maybe that's because I quit cold turkey. Eating pasta and bread seemed to help. But if the symptoms don't go away soon after dropping to 0, you should probably keep seeing the doctor about it.
Posted by kananee on April 20, 2004, at 21:17:48
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by Markku on April 20, 2004, at 11:51:28
Thanks, Laura and markku. I'm noticing too that carbs help, and coffee, coca cola and chocolate make it a lot worse -- bad things I love that now just the thought of makes me nauseous!
Has anybody heard about a potential new AD -- perhaps being tested in U.K. -- that's neither an SSRI nor a SNRI but may rely on something called an SP Antagonist? (I have no clue what an SP Antagonist is.)
While searching for info on Effexor side effects and withdrawal symptoms, I saw an abstract for a medical research paper that I couldn't access since I'm not a doc. What interested me was a statement about its (SP Antagonist drug) being used to treat both MDD and IBS.
Laura, a special thanks to you for being such a caring and nurturing person. I had noticed that as I read through the posts, and I am glad to have been a beneficiary of your kindness. I really needed it.
Posted by jiggitykid on April 21, 2004, at 18:13:27
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by kananee on April 20, 2004, at 21:17:48
>>> and coffee, coca cola and chocolate make it a lot worse -- bad things I love that now just the thought of makes me nauseous!<<<
For me, it's the caffeine. Decaf coke, etc., doesn't bother me at all. Give me caff, and I'm running to the potty!!
I don't suppose they make decaf chocolate, though, huh ;-(?
Posted by Keith Talent on April 21, 2004, at 20:21:28
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers » kananee, posted by jiggitykid on April 21, 2004, at 18:13:27
I've read here and elsewhere that Effexor is almost identical in structure to tramadol (Ultram), an opioid painkiller. I know that opioids cause constipation, and when opioid-dependent people withdraw (e.g. heroin) they get diarrhoea. Maybe there's something in that?
Posted by jiggitykid on April 21, 2004, at 21:47:38
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by Keith Talent on April 21, 2004, at 20:21:28
>>>I've read here and elsewhere that Effexor is almost identical in structure to tramadol (Ultram), an opioid painkiller.<<<
That's interesting. I have a pain disorder (IA and FM) and was prescribed ultram while I was taking effexor. My doctor didn't catch the "do not use if you're taking. . ." warning. Thank goodness I'm my best medical watchdog. I always check out what I'm being given before it ever touches my lips. Now that I'm E-free, I occasionally use Ultram if I am having trouble staying asleep (the pain wakes me up). It's not an outstanding pain killer, but it at least can take the edge off of the pain enough for me to be able to go back to sleep.
I envy my spouse who takes the occasional Ibuprofen for muscle soreness. How wonderful would that be, to not need medications. But, how wonderful it is that there are medications that really do help and make a decent life possible now. At my age, my mother battled the same things that I have (says a lot for heredity!) and didn't have nearly the arsenal that I have to combat the illnesses with. I'm grateful for the meds that work. When one comes along in this day and age where "pop a pill" is the common solution that is as destructive as Effexor was for me and many others (reported and unreported), it is frustrating. My heart aches for the people who don't know about this board and are dealing with the hell of the Effexor problems alone. I can't tell you how relieved I was to discover that what I was experiencing was not unique and that I wasn't "crazy."
Thanks, Dr. Bob.
Posted by kananee on April 21, 2004, at 23:00:37
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by Keith Talent on April 21, 2004, at 20:21:28
> I've read here and elsewhere that Effexor is almost identical in structure to tramadol (Ultram), an opioid painkiller. I know that opioids cause constipation, and when opioid-dependent people withdraw (e.g. heroin) they get diarrhoea. Maybe there's something in that?>
Wow!! My older daughter was, sadly, a heroin addict (and bipolar) and died from a supposedly accidental overdose just before Christmas 2003. Just today I was telling my younger daughter that this Effexor withdrawaI feels like what her sister used to describe when she was trying to get clean: the flu-like stuff, nausea, stomach cramps, fever, chills, brain shivers, etc etc etc
Now I understand why. Yipes, this is scary stuff. I think I'll try to live without antidepressants when I finally get this awful drug out of my system.
I especially feel for those of you who post here who have severe and painful physical problems in addition to the depression. I can't imagine what this withdrawal must be like for you.
jiggitykid: Here's what we need: A decaf, fat free, sugar free chocolate that tastes as good as Haagen Daz chocolate ice cream!
Posted by wibbles on April 23, 2004, at 1:55:36
In reply to Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by Becky on October 2, 1999, at 22:03:30
OMG I am SO glad to have found these postings, thank U all. I thought I was insane. Niether the doctor that put me on exefore nor the pharmacist had a clue what was going on. Worst part were the dreams......and they didnt stop when i was awake. I so thought I would be trapped like that for ever. I cant believe I was given such a dangerous drug with so little information about it (That said, i am a student nurse, and MIMS...our subscription guidline book..doesnt list many of the withdrawal effects).
Dont even think i WAS depressed, not B4 the effexor
Posted by jiggitykid on April 23, 2004, at 7:48:02
In reply to Withdrawal. MIMS doesnt list these ones, posted by wibbles on April 23, 2004, at 1:55:36
Hi - congrats on finding the board. I was as relieved and happy as you sound.
If you don't mind my asking, why would a doc have put you on effexor if you don't think you were depressed to begin with? A lady I know was put on lexapro as a "just in case" medication after her hysterectomy. That's not safe, IMO. I understand wanting to make sure she didn't have a bad experience, but shouldn't the doc have waited and monitored her before giving her something like an antidepressant?
Anyway, go back through the archives (if you haven't already) and read up on all of the experiences here. Frankly, as awful as this experience is for you, your patients will benefit from your experience with this. You can use this as an opportunity to "educate" doctors. All of us need to "educate" our medical professionals, since the FDA and the drug companies don't plan to. Take care of yourself and hang in there!! Thanks for your post.
> OMG I am SO glad to have found these postings, thank U all. I thought I was insane. Niether the doctor that put me on exefore nor the pharmacist had a clue what was going on. Worst part were the dreams......and they didnt stop when i was awake. I so thought I would be trapped like that for ever. I cant believe I was given such a dangerous drug with so little information about it (That said, i am a student nurse, and MIMS...our subscription guidline book..doesnt list many of the withdrawal effects).
>
> Dont even think i WAS depressed, not B4 the effexor
Posted by Sachikon on April 25, 2004, at 19:05:36
In reply to Re: Horrible Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » Iceofire, posted by hageshe on April 10, 2003, at 16:35:09
I was on Effexor for 3 years 150mg. Like you I realized that my life was being slowly sucked away from me. I was sleeping all the time and had no energy even when awake. My mental capacity was diminished and dull.
I quit cold turky about 6 weeks ago and thought I'd never make it. The shivers finally subsided after about 3 weeks. I still experience them if I haven't had enough sleep or if I consume any alcohol. The dreams and restless nights are down to about once or twice a week.
Despite the continued withdrawal things are so much better! I really, really encourage you to try again to get past week 2. Things really started imporoving around that time. After week 3 I began to feel free and alive. My mind is becoming sharper every day and I'm feeling better than I remember feeling in ages. My husband says he's finally getting his wife back.
I know I am getting my life back in ways I am only beginning to realize.
I know it is difficult. I thought I was going to go crazy many, many times the first week or two. Try and find strength in counting down the days and know that it will get better. It will be worth the pain of quitting.
I wish you the best of luck and will be "pulling" for you to make it. -S
Posted by kananee on April 25, 2004, at 23:22:22
In reply to Brain Shivers Effexor Withdrawal, posted by Sachikon on March 13, 2004, at 22:54:23
> > > Here is a series of articles on Brain Shivers that taught me a lot....
> > >
> > > http://depression.about.com/cs/venlafaxine/a/brainshivers.htm>; > >I went to this link but couldn't get to p. 4, which supposedly explains what causes these things. Is there anyone who got to p 4 and can explain the cause?
BTW, for me it's definitely related to turning my head, sidetoside or upanddown, and I think of it as two little devils on either side of my head, playing electric ping-pong: Zap, Zap; Zap, Zap. I can actually hear the sound as well as feel the "electric shock."
Day 10 of being Effexor-free. Most physical symptoms are much improved. What's plaguing me now are the brain zaps (which aren't as bad), crying jags and, the worst: A really mean paranoid spirit has taken over my mind and body. Several of you have mentioned "PMS" behavior. Does this go away? Do I need an exorcist? (I'm only partially kidding -- this personna is not someone I am or want to be. ) Any advice?
Posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 7:58:41
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » Sachikon, posted by kananee on April 25, 2004, at 23:22:22
>>>A really mean paranoid spirit has taken over my mind and body. Several of you have mentioned "PMS" behavior. Does this go away?<<<
Yes, it is normal and it does go away (at least, it did for me ;-) ). This very thing is the part that my mother saw, and worried that I needed another antidepressant to soften it. I didn't want to do that, so I tried to remind myself that this was part of the withdrawal and not a part of me. Telling those around me that this was going on and that I wasn't just a big ol' meanie helped, too. Patience is the biggest gift you can give yourself. For me, it took approx. 2 months before my personality began to settle back into place.
It has been since just after Halloween '03 when I quit taking effexor cold-turkey. The first two weeks were horrible, the third week was bad but tolerable, then it began to get better. Occasionally, I still wake up with the "zaps," or the brain shivers, but that is becoming more and more rare. It snuck up on me night-before-last and was quite a surprise.
Take care of yourself. Be patient and be gentle with yourself. Hang in there!
Posted by kananee on April 26, 2004, at 8:12:36
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » kananee, posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 7:58:41
Thanks, Jiggitykid. At least I know it's temporary. Some of the people I care about most -- my family -- are the least understanding. "Everybody has problems -- you're just being a drama queen" etc. So it's somewhat a question of how many will be left standing at the end.
Posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 8:19:09
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » Jiggitykid, posted by kananee on April 26, 2004, at 8:12:36
>>>drama queen<<<
I know - they can be the hardest. If you think they'll listen (and I've got those in my family and my in-laws who truly won't listen), then you might send them here, or print out some of the testimonies from others and share them. Also, have you signed the petition yet? You might direct them toward the petition and the numbers of others who have been affected this way. The "drama queen" title won't hold much water then! 4750 signatures does not one drama queen make ;-).
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/effexor/petition.html
Posted by Sachikon on April 26, 2004, at 12:22:43
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » kananee, posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 7:58:41
My experience was very similar. I quit cold-turkey after almost 4 years on 150mg. The first two weeks were a nightmare. I thought I might die or just go crazy. Week 3 things slowly improved. I'm at 6 weeks and starting to feel better than I have in years. I still have "shivers" but certainly not everyday. It's worse when I'm tired. I wish you the best of luck! Hang in there I know it's rough but it is so worth it! -S
Posted by Sachikon on April 26, 2004, at 12:27:43
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » Sachikon, posted by kananee on April 25, 2004, at 23:22:22
I believe I have page 4 printed out. I'll check and get back to the post asap! Also congratulations on making it so far! I know for me things started improving during week 3 and from there on out it has gotten better and better. I hope this means you are almost in the home stretch as well. I'm at week 6 and I feel more alive and awake than I have in years. Good luck!! -S
Posted by Is it over yet on May 1, 2004, at 21:32:20
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by karen t bag on October 15, 2003, at 11:15:31
Hi,
I'm new here & don't know if you're still around, but I'd be really interested on seeing that list from your nutritionist......
Also, I'm almost afraid to ask, but does anyone have any experiences with pregnancy/trying to get pregnant? I want to make sure the effexor is totally out of my system before I start.
Thanks!
Posted by TechEd on May 17, 2004, at 16:03:51
In reply to Withdrawal. MIMS doesnt list these ones, posted by wibbles on April 23, 2004, at 1:55:36
Hi,
I also find this site very helpful and know that I am not crazy. I've been on this damn drug for about half a year. Trying to get rid of it now. Had experienced electrical shocks the first week when I reduced from 2 pills(150mg) per day to 1(75mg) while I thought it was safe to stop taking it 2 days ago, I tried skip it for one day. End up with shocks whenever I tried moving my eye balls from side to side and when I turned my body direction or trying to follow anything with my eyes. Terrible feelings. I hope this medication be banned from selling. Any one know hot to minimize this brain zap side effects? I need help. Also, I couldnt sleep at night. When I finally being able to sleep, I would have vivid nightmares which I can still remember with details.
> OMG I am SO glad to have found these postings, thank U all. I thought I was insane. Niether the doctor that put me on exefore nor the pharmacist had a clue what was going on. Worst part were the dreams......and they didnt stop when i was awake. I so thought I would be trapped like that for ever. I cant believe I was given such a dangerous drug with so little information about it (That said, i am a student nurse, and MIMS...our subscription guidline book..doesnt list many of the withdrawal effects).
>
> Dont even think i WAS depressed, not B4 the effexor
Posted by jtaanreat on May 18, 2004, at 9:56:31
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » karen t bag, posted by Is it over yet on May 1, 2004, at 21:32:20
I am so glad to have found this site. Due to insurance changes forcing me to change drs., and not being able to get a quick appointment with the new dr., I am facing a black hole of about three weeks without my Effexor. I have been on 300 mg for about 7 years, when my 18-year-old son was in an accident that eventually led to his death two years later. I am so sick, experiencing much of what has been mentioned. I'm so thankful to know I'm not going crazy! Dealing with grief is hard enough. The sickness is making it doubly so. Rms. 8:28 is an encouragement to me - was glad to see it mentioned also. Life sure is hard.
Posted by KimberlyDi on May 18, 2004, at 10:44:23
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by jtaanreat on May 18, 2004, at 9:56:31
Go to a Family Wellness Clinic or any place that accepts "walk ins". Explain your situation and ask if there's any way you could get a "starter" pack of Effexor to tied you over until you can make your next appointment. Lots of doctors are given samples of Effexor. Someone will help you out.
God Bless and Good Luck!
KDi in TX
> I am so glad to have found this site. Due to insurance changes forcing me to change drs., and not being able to get a quick appointment with the new dr., I am facing a black hole of about three weeks without my Effexor. I have been on 300 mg for about 7 years, when my 18-year-old son was in an accident that eventually led to his death two years later. I am so sick, experiencing much of what has been mentioned. I'm so thankful to know I'm not going crazy! Dealing with grief is hard enough. The sickness is making it doubly so. Rms. 8:28 is an encouragement to me - was glad to see it mentioned also. Life sure is hard.
Posted by seanwrx on May 18, 2004, at 21:03:38
In reply to Cold Turkey after 7 years on 300mg? get help » jtaanreat, posted by KimberlyDi on May 18, 2004, at 10:44:23
I have had the unfortunate experience of coming off of Effexor (twice actually, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me). My pDoc didn't know what I was talking about in regards to the brain shivers and the like. I think they figured that since other patients have come off the drug and not, you know, died or anything that it must not be that bad.
Anyway, those symptoms do go away (the severe physical ones, flu-like symptons, brain shivers, etc) but the toughest maybe an increase in anxiety and depression. That suggestion to get some samples is a good one - most places will do that if you go in an explain the situation. If you are looking to get off the drug for whatever reason, this 'forced' reason might be the push you need. If you can't get any more of the drug and taper off just know that it will work itself out of your system and you will feel better.
Benadryl at night to sleep seemed to be benificial (if Benadryl is sedating for you, its not always for some people).
Its going to be a tough couple weeks, but hang in there.
-S
Posted by gabby77 on May 31, 2004, at 18:13:23
In reply to Re: Cold Turkey after 7 years on 300mg? get help, posted by seanwrx on May 18, 2004, at 21:03:38
I was just diagnosed about 10 days ago with bipolar ii after YEARS of suffering depression. Last thursday my dr too me off 300 mg effexor cold turkey....added 1000 mg depakote and i feel like death...puking...head ache, tears, tired, can't sleep, hungry can't eat, shakes, cold, hot...HELP!!! I feel like death would be less difficult!!
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