![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jlbl2l on April 22, 2004, at 3:21:24
chemist,
you seem quite knowledgable on many medicines, (and I am trying to become a qualified expert myself) so I thought I'd ask some questions or re-affirm some things that I may be wrong at. I may append more to this post later and I would like to continue discussion of other things if I find this helpful.First, Klonopin and Xanax (in general) have both roughly the same equivalency at dosage of 0.5mg, however xanax has a much earlier onset of action and hit's a slightly different subset of gaba-a receptors creating the quicker and more "high" feeling in most people. It also seems to be more of a relaxant probably hitting what, i think c subtype of the gaba-a - is for muscle relaxant properaties? Anyways, Xanax metabolies into oxazepam , like almost every benzodiapine, correct? So when I take Ativan, or Xanax, or (another common benzo (not klonopin though) it is actually just oxazepam that i would be taking, correct? In most drug tests, they usually only test for oxazepam (unless special tests are ordered) since almost all benzos metabolize into it. Anyways, My comparison here is Klonopin vs Xanax and the tolerance vs the 2 and effectiveness vs the two and the metabolites vs the two. I am aware Klonopin converts uniquely (amoung only a few others benzos) to its specific form of 7-amino-clonazepam rather than most benzos which convert to oxazepam. Question -> Does this effect the feeling of the benzo in any way? I know this would effect a drug test, but would it convert AFTER or BEFORE the binding, do you understand what I am saying? Second thing, is that Klonopin seems to also have an antidepressant effect like xanax, but it wears off after you gain tolerance. It seems this has been established through interactions through 5HTP/SEROTONIN interactions. Can you explain how benzos are helping in this (speicfically), and why klonopin eventually stop's working, while xanax, doesn't seem to from what i have heard. Could it be the half life factor; in that its harder to gain tolerance to xanax? Also, For Klonopin, What Gaba-A subtype receptors does it hit the most. Obviously, we know it hits the anxiolytic subset and the (hypnotic areas-as most benzos do) but it doesnt do much for muscles (for me at least). I guess this is why it is an ideal agent for social phobia, esp the long half life and anti-d effects. Can you just "babble" for me a bit (feel free to go into very,VERY much chemical and technical detail such as ion channel, calicum influx, potassium blockage etc.. and such as I understand most of this, I study neuropharmcology and neurochemistry but from your posts it seems you could aid in my knowledge. Also I am HIGHLY interested in pregablin and neurontin ( I know how they generally work, but I would like to know a lot more on why they aren't scheled subtances LOL (in your opinion). I mean, they work through calcium influx mechinisms correct? but they work throughout the entire body, not just the brain , so they work at all levels , hence the benefit to neurpathic pain and fibro patients etc.., those substances interest me the most actually because of the possibily of no downregulation or upregulation, though, i know thats probably impossible. Thoughts on topamax would be nice as well, especially its glutamate blocking properaties (and where it blocks it to IE NMDA ?), and its whole "brain" level of raising gaba and how it does this and what does it do with NP-Y and the other factors - I know theres 2 other hormone like factors it effects that are related to sleep, eating and behavior. Anyways. Thanks again
Thanks.
jlbl2l
neuropsychopharmacology researcher
Posted by chemist on April 22, 2004, at 20:20:04
In reply to Question for chemist on benzos (experts) + MORE., posted by jlbl2l on April 22, 2004, at 3:21:24
> chemist,
>
>
> you seem quite knowledgable on many medicines, (and I am trying to become a qualified expert myself) so I thought I'd ask some questions or re-affirm some things that I may be wrong at. I may append more to this post later and I would like to continue discussion of other things if I find this helpful.
>
> First, Klonopin and Xanax (in general) have both roughly the same equivalency at dosage of 0.5mg, however xanax has a much earlier onset of action and hit's a slightly different subset of gaba-a receptors creating the quicker and more "high" feeling in most people.
*** the reason xanax is different from any other benzodiazepine is that it is NOT a 1,4-substituted (or 1,5, for that matter, such as clobazam) benzodiazepene: it is a triazolobenzodiazepene, and the addition of the triazolo group would account for the anti-depressant effects of xanax. also, xanax and the benzos all hit GABA_{A}, and in particular, bind between the alpha and gamma sub-units. finally, there are compelling evidence that the benzodiazepine binding in GABA_{A} is between subunits alpha1 and gamma 2 and that the most likely heteropentameric arrangement of GABA_{A} for greatest agonism/antagonism/inhibition is the (alpha1)_{2}(beta2)_{2}gamma1 stoiciometry.****
It also seems to be more of a relaxant probably hitting what, i think c subtype of the gaba-a - is for muscle relaxant properaties?
*** there is no such beast as the c subtype of GABA_{A}. GABA_{B} and GABA_{C} are the other subtypes. as for muscle-relaxant properties related to GABA_{C}, all ligands with sub-micromolar K_{i} for this subtype are associated with cognitive function and, so a lesser degree, occular function.*****
Anyways, Xanax metabolies into oxazepam , like almost every benzodiapine, correct?
*** why would it? active metabolites of diazepam, for instance, are oxazepam and desmethyldiazepam and (i cannot recall if this is correct) nordiazepam. xanax is metabolized to (active) alpha-hydroxy alprazolam and 4-hydroxy alprazolam; another triazolobenzodiazepene, adinazolam, is metabolized to N-desmethyladinazolam, estazolam, and alpha-hydroxy adinazolam. want to do drug tests for chlorazepate? look for desmethyldiazepam. clonazepam goes to 7-amino-clonazepam and 7-acetamidoclonazepam. nordiazepam goes to oxazepam, but oxazepam can be readily hydrolyzed.***
So when I take Ativan, or Xanax, or (another common benzo (not klonopin though) it is actually just oxazepam that i would be taking, correct? In most drug tests, they usually only test for oxazepam (unless special tests are ordered) since almost all benzos metabolize into it.
*** nope. see above, and extensive literature on what forensic analysis for the presence of benzodiazepenes is all about. it's NOT about looking for oxazepam.....*****
Anyways, My comparison here is Klonopin vs Xanax and the tolerance vs the 2 and effectiveness vs the two and the metabolites vs the two. I am aware Klonopin converts uniquely (amoung only a few others benzos) to its specific form of 7-amino-clonazepam rather than most benzos which convert to oxazepam.
*** again, misinformed. xanax isn't even a benzodiazepine, and comparing the (different) metabolites for your ``dose equivalence'' is no good. a hydrolyzed species will stay in the brain longer - hydrophilic moiety prevents crossing the blood/brain barrier too soon - than an aminated one, such as the 7-amino derivative of clonazepam. xanax is way mre lipophilic than clonazepam, thus the earlier onset of action, as this crosses the blood/brain barrier (and i note that the hydroxy metabolites have a slower time getting across said boundary)****
Question -> Does this effect the feeling of the benzo in any way? I know this would effect a drug test, but would it convert AFTER or BEFORE the binding, do you understand what I am saying?
*** i assume you are referring to what i noted above, i.e., what species are left after your liver has done the round of metabolism. you will have unchanged parent drug and active/inactive metabolites. the ease at which any of these (and their potenticies) cross the blood/brain barrier is the first step. then, binding to (almost exclusively) the specific GABA_{A} receptor, and the binding affinities will be different, although a low binding affinity can be offset by a longer residence time of active metabolite buildup****
Second thing, is that Klonopin seems to also have an antidepressant effect like xanax, but it wears off after you gain tolerance. It seems this has been established through interactions through 5HTP/SEROTONIN interactions.
***tolerance can and will be achieved for both drugs. as for serotonin: i am sure you are aware of the structural and functional homology of the ligand-gated ion channels such as acetylcholine binding protein, the neuronal nicotine receptor, GABA receptors, and of course, 5-HT (in particular, the 4 subtypes of 5-HT_{1}). GABA_{B} - which is coupled to calcium and potassium flux as opposed to GABA_{A} and GABA_{C} (chloride flux) - might work in a synergistic fashion, although i remain ignorant of the mechanism. could be cAMP levels for polarizing the channel? i don't know..****
Can you explain how benzos are helping in this (speicfically), and why klonopin eventually stop's working, while xanax, doesn't seem to from what i have heard. Could it be the half life factor; in that its harder to gain tolerance to xanax? Also, For Klonopin, What Gaba-A subtype receptors does it hit the most.
****i think i have pretty thoroughly exhausted how benzos work, but here we go: take a benzo. some parent drug remains and some metabolites are formed (active/inactive). transport across blood/brain barrier. bind between the alpha1 and gamma2 subunits of the GABA type A receptor. upon ligand binding, chloride flux ensues, ligang-gated channel opens, GABA reuptake inhibited, inhibitory effects felt. as for subreceptors for klonopin: if you are a benzodiazepene it is imperative that you bind at the junction of an alpha and gamma subunit of the GABA receptor.***
Obviously, we know it hits the anxiolytic subset and the (hypnotic areas-as most benzos do) but it doesnt do much for muscles (for me at least).
***but you said so above, in your post at the beginning, and you implicated the (non-existant) c subtype of GABA_{A}. as for ``the hypnotic set,'' it's a set of 1: the alpha1.*****
I guess this is why it is an ideal agent for social phobia, esp the long half life and anti-d effects. Can you just "babble" for me a bit (feel free to go into very,VERY much chemical and technical detail such as ion channel, calicum influx, potassium blockage etc.. and such as I understand most of this, I study neuropharmcology and neurochemistry but from your posts it seems you could aid in my knowledge. Also I am HIGHLY interested in pregablin and neurontin ( I know how they generally work, but I would like to know a lot more on why they aren't scheled subtances
** do you mean why aren't they scheduled? first of all, they have to have shown through phase IV and post-marketing (not so in the ill-fated pregablin attempt, though...) that there is evidence for addiction potential. second, gabapentin is a GABA agonist, but it sure isn't prescribed for anxiety as much as for peripheral neuropathy, for instance, or for add-on therapy for epilepsy. these target populations are likely not to be the kind of crowd involved in classical drug-seeking behavior....*****
LOL (in your opinion). I mean, they work through calcium influx mechinisms correct? but they work throughout the entire body, not just the brain , so they work at all levels , hence the benefit to neurpathic pain and fibro patients etc.., those substances interest me the most actually because of the possibily of no downregulation or upregulation, though, i know thats probably impossible. Thoughts on topamax would be nice as well, especially its glutamate blocking properaties (and where it blocks it to IE NMDA ?), and its whole "brain" level of raising gaba and how it does this and what does it do
***topiramate antagonizes the AMPA/kainate glutamate receptor, not the NMDA one.also, topirimate inhibits sodium channels and activates calcium channels. the binding of topirimate is a myystery to me, i suspect the sulfamate group is key and that the interaction is at AMPA/kainate..as for neuropeptide Y, no evidence of of interaction. as for *whole* brain GABA flood, could be the inhibition of glutamate release or regulation of GABA transmission...again, i don't know....*****
with NP-Y and the other factors - I know theres 2 other hormone like factors it effects that are related to sleep, eating and behavior. Anyways.
***NP-Y, proopiomelanocortin system, and corticotropin-releasing hormone. as for NP-Y, no interaction with these other 2. hope i passed your quiz. when i earned my ph.d. several years ago i used to have students like you....all the best, and take your meds......chemist
Thanks again
>
> Thanks.
>
> jlbl2l
> neuropsychopharmacology researcher
Posted by jlbl2l on April 22, 2004, at 21:42:28
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on benzos (experts) + MORE. » jlbl2l, posted by chemist on April 22, 2004, at 20:20:04
thank you very much. very helpful. i would like your thoughts more on pregabalin (overall) as its approval in europe is expected very shortly (next month) and in oct probably in the USA, and what you meant by the ill-fated comment on it. You can relate its effects to neurontin since literature on pregablin may be lacking due to its relative "newness".
also, i do disagree with you on some points specifically, i have read numerous reports on the net that most benzos convert eventually to either oxazepam or nordiazepam-valium covering the most common benzos (mostly for drug screening).
The other thing is the neuropeptide-Y. There is lots of literate on its relation to topamax on medline and why it causes weight loss, sleep problems etc etc. I don't quite understand what you meant by your post regarding NPY/topamax (nothing found?)
One last thing, did you mean the student comment (students like me) thing as a complement, as in, challenging you for the good or bad, or am i actually decent on my knowledge at the age of 21? PS. I don't take any meds currently. I'm just a researcher, I'd like to get my ph.d. someday though.
jlbl2l
Posted by jlbl2l on April 22, 2004, at 21:56:23
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on benzos (experts) + MORE., posted by jlbl2l on April 22, 2004, at 21:42:28
chemist, can i contact you personally regarding research and questions, not all related to neurology though but it does cross-reference into the field somewhat (more immunology and virology). my aim screename is jlbl2l or would you prefer another means of contact, let me know. i am in contact with a few prominent organizations and the president of one of them contacted me personally about my research and a few other doctors that deal with a specific disease that is funded privately and via the cdc and nih; so i'd like to discuss and learn some things with you if possible. i'm not looking for any monetary gain, if any "cure" is found you can patent it based on my research or anything found or we can just talk if you like.
thank you
jlbl2l
Posted by chemist on April 22, 2004, at 23:10:31
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on benzos (experts) + MORE., posted by jlbl2l on April 22, 2004, at 21:42:28
> thank you very much. very helpful. i would like your thoughts more on pregabalin (overall) as its approval in europe is expected very shortly (next month) and in oct probably in the USA, and what you meant by the ill-fated comment on it. You can relate its effects to neurontin since literature on pregablin may be lacking due to its relative "newness".
>
> also, i do disagree with you on some points specifically, i have read numerous reports on the net that most benzos convert eventually to either oxazepam or nordiazepam-valium covering the most common benzos (mostly for drug screening).***have you tried www.pubmed.org with keywords benzodiazepine and oxazepam? also, given that oxazepam is an active anxiolytic, why would there be a market at all for any of the other benzos? the active metabolites are different. if oxazepam comes out the back end, so to speak, then fine. but if you look at the literature (everything from tandem MS/GC to HPLC and more), law enforcement focuses on the metabolites i mentioned.*******
>
> The other thing is the neuropeptide-Y. There is lots of literate on its relation to topamax on medline and why it causes weight loss, sleep problems etc etc. I don't quite understand what you meant by your post regarding NPY/topamax (nothing found?)
***have plenty in my files, but only 2 are relevant: first off is Richard et al., Nutrition 16:961-966, 2000, which says no for the interaction. however, a more recent pub says yes (this one for NPY, CRH, galanin, and leptin): Hushum et al., Neuropsychophamacology 28:1292-1299, 2003*********
>
> One last thing, did you mean the student comment (students like me) thing as a complement, as in, challenging you for the good or bad, or am i actually decent on my knowledge at the age of 21? PS. I don't take any meds currently. I'm just a researcher, I'd like to get my ph.d. someday though.
>
> jlbl2l
****compliment. in regards to your other post, i am covered by numerous non-disclosure agreements with private concerns so i regret i cannot get involved.....***** best, chemist
Posted by jlbl2l on April 23, 2004, at 4:57:04
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on benzos (experts) + MORE. » jlbl2l, posted by chemist on April 22, 2004, at 23:10:31
thank you once again!
I am going to assume you have a phd in neurochemistry or neurobiology or something similar. So i once again want to ask some questions that are personal to me.....
#1 -> Nardil MAOI- If one were to take Nardil for a week, then experience extreme, occipital headaches developing photophobia, phonophobia, and muscle lockups on the left side of the body, extreme stiff neck and other strange symptoms (maintaining all diet restrictions with no drug interactions, monitoring blood pressure etc) and all other precuations, stop the drug immdiately,upon noticing these symptoms... goto the hospital, get a CT scan check for intracranial hemmoerage (showed negative) get a lumbar puncture) (showed negative for menegities and hemmoreges) but extrmeme occipital headache persisted after nardil was discontinued for months after, then out of the blue, this person experienced a tonic-clonic seizure (2 months after) with memory loss persisting for the following months continuing to this day and seems to be degenerating (with headaches continuing). After this, EEG showed sharp temporal-lobe spikes consistant with cortical irritability, MRI was performed and showed a small lesion and plaque buildup within the right parietal lobe of the brain <all of these were non-specific findings>. There were all triggered by the initial onset of the headache induced by Nardil which was given for only a week at a very low dose with no other drugs and no other abnormal findings were found after discontinuation except for the continuing headache which was the main factor and probable trigger. (PS - Yes this relates to me). Before the Nardil, there were only 2 other drugs involved, zithromax for an infection and benadryl to fall asleep. this was far before. they didnt trigger anything and were weeks before.
Can you offer insight and also ->
I've been referred to 2 neurologists, and now am being referred to the Mayo Clinic to see a PHD in neurology and the case with Nardil is going to be reported to the FDA's adverse effects database. There have been NO such reports as of yet. My situatuon continues to get worse. I've been diagnosed with TMJ dysfunction through by the Eastman Dental Research Center in Rochester NY using MRI, another oddity (didn't have this before the seizure, also I am displaying symptoms of "degenerative memory loss" and spacial and focal neuro defcits including word finding problems and spelling, math and numerous other problems, mostly memory. also i am in constant arththris like pain and numerous other problems ive seen so many docs my thyroid is way out of line, my iron is overloaded, they said i am seriously messed up in every part of my body literally... i am scheled to have a 24 hour EEG and a sleep study done, and also a SPECT scan. i am also getting a EMG and NCV test. The neurologists are really actually some of the smartest and up to date around where I live, so i don't doubt they know what they are doing and they are generally dumbfounded at this point. At last they are looking at a possible trigger of a virus from the Nardil that may have been dorment in the brain. They will be testing for a herpes strain and begin treatment with Valcyte or some other IV similar to it if they find I have it. anyways Ive always been healhty and smart and stuff but its nice to converse with someone with a PHD in possibly neurochemistry who may be able to help in this case ....
thanks
jlbl2l
Posted by chemist on April 23, 2004, at 11:52:42
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on benzos (experts) + MORE., posted by jlbl2l on April 23, 2004, at 4:57:04
> thank you once again!
>
> I am going to assume you have a phd in neurochemistry or neurobiology or something similar. So i once again want to ask some questions that are personal to me.....
>
> #1 -> Nardil MAOI- If one were to take Nardil for a week, then experience extreme, occipital headaches developing photophobia, phonophobia, and muscle lockups on the left side of the body, extreme stiff neck and other strange symptoms (maintaining all diet restrictions with no drug interactions, monitoring blood pressure etc) and all other precuations, stop the drug immdiately,upon noticing these symptoms... goto the hospital, get a CT scan check for intracranial hemmoerage (showed negative) get a lumbar puncture) (showed negative for menegities and hemmoreges) but extrmeme occipital headache persisted after nardil was discontinued for months after, then out of the blue, this person experienced a tonic-clonic seizure (2 months after) with memory loss persisting for the following months continuing to this day and seems to be degenerating (with headaches continuing). After this, EEG showed sharp temporal-lobe spikes consistant with cortical irritability, MRI was performed and showed a small lesion and plaque buildup within the right parietal lobe of the brain <all of these were non-specific findings>. There were all triggered by the initial onset of the headache induced by Nardil which was given for only a week at a very low dose with no other drugs and no other abnormal findings were found after discontinuation except for the continuing headache which was the main factor and probable trigger. (PS - Yes this relates to me). Before the Nardil, there were only 2 other drugs involved, zithromax for an infection and benadryl to fall asleep. this was far before. they didnt trigger anything and were weeks before.
>
> Can you offer insight and also ->
>
> I've been referred to 2 neurologists, and now am being referred to the Mayo Clinic to see a PHD in neurology and the case with Nardil is going to be reported to the FDA's adverse effects database. There have been NO such reports as of yet. My situatuon continues to get worse. I've been diagnosed with TMJ dysfunction through by the Eastman Dental Research Center in Rochester NY using MRI, another oddity (didn't have this before the seizure, also I am displaying symptoms of "degenerative memory loss" and spacial and focal neuro defcits including word finding problems and spelling, math and numerous other problems, mostly memory. also i am in constant arththris like pain and numerous other problems ive seen so many docs my thyroid is way out of line, my iron is overloaded, they said i am seriously messed up in every part of my body literally... i am scheled to have a 24 hour EEG and a sleep study done, and also a SPECT scan. i am also getting a EMG and NCV test. The neurologists are really actually some of the smartest and up to date around where I live, so i don't doubt they know what they are doing and they are generally dumbfounded at this point. At last they are looking at a possible trigger of a virus from the Nardil that may have been dorment in the brain. They will be testing for a herpes strain and begin treatment with Valcyte or some other IV similar to it if they find I have it. anyways Ive always been healhty and smart and stuff but its nice to converse with someone with a PHD in possibly neurochemistry who may be able to help in this case ....
>
> thanks
> jlbl2l
>
send email to me todd@lanczos.cm.utexas.edu and
we will continue this further....tjm
Posted by patricia leahy on April 24, 2004, at 14:46:16
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on benzos (experts) + MORE. » jlbl2l, posted by chemist on April 23, 2004, at 11:52:42
hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
Posted by chemist on April 24, 2004, at 23:18:33
In reply to Question for chemist on klonopin, posted by patricia leahy on April 24, 2004, at 14:46:16
> hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
hi patricia....i assume you are taking klonopin 0.5 mg in the morning, then another 0.5 mg at night...kolopin takes a while - not long, maybe a week at the most - to build up in your system. it has a long elimination half-life, so chronic dosing at the 1 mg/day level you describe should put you on an even keel in no time. as for weight gain, this is a ubiquitously listed side effect of anything sedating: klonopin will not effect the levels of TSH, as some meds (lithium) will. thus, the get-up-and-go is up to you. as for xanax: i don't leave home without it, just in case. haven't had a breakthrough panic attack in several years, although in my case it was compounded by ssris or maois, which are stimulating. to recap, i would suspect that 1 mg klonopin/day will put you right in a short time, and keep the xanax at hand just in case...all the best, chemist
Posted by patricia leahy on April 25, 2004, at 11:23:31
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on klonopin » patricia leahy, posted by chemist on April 24, 2004, at 23:18:33
>thanks for your input, you are so smart. now i really feel stupid asking this next question... but here goes.. does .5 mg and .5mg equal 1 full mg??? because what is on my bottle he prescribed is " Take one half to one pill aday or as needed" but isnt .5 only half of a mg? so shouldnt i be taking one.5mg in a.m and .5mg in evening? i hope i won't need the xanax much longer but good to have as a security. THanks and best to you
> hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
>
> hi patricia....i assume you are taking klonopin 0.5 mg in the morning, then another 0.5 mg at night...kolopin takes a while - not long, maybe a week at the most - to build up in your system. it has a long elimination half-life, so chronic dosing at the 1 mg/day level you describe should put you on an even keel in no time. as for weight gain, this is a ubiquitously listed side effect of anything sedating: klonopin will not effect the levels of TSH, as some meds (lithium) will. thus, the get-up-and-go is up to you. as for xanax: i don't leave home without it, just in case. haven't had a breakthrough panic attack in several years, although in my case it was compounded by ssris or maois, which are stimulating. to recap, i would suspect that 1 mg klonopin/day will put you right in a short time, and keep the xanax at hand just in case...all the best, chemist
>
Posted by chemist on April 25, 2004, at 13:25:26
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on klonopin » chemist, posted by patricia leahy on April 25, 2004, at 11:23:31
> >thanks for your input, you are so smart. now i really feel stupid asking this next question... but here goes.. does .5 mg and .5mg equal 1 full mg??? because what is on my bottle he prescribed is " Take one half to one pill aday or as needed" but isnt .5 only half of a mg? so shouldnt i be taking one.5mg in a.m and .5mg in evening? i hope i won't need the xanax much longer but good to have as a security. THanks and best to you
>
> hi there, 0.5 mg + 0.5 mg = 1 mg. are your tablets 1 mg, or are they 0.5 mg, in which case you would be taking 0.25 mg in the morning and then 0.25 at night....all the best, chemist
>
> > hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
> >
> > hi patricia....i assume you are taking klonopin 0.5 mg in the morning, then another 0.5 mg at night...kolopin takes a while - not long, maybe a week at the most - to build up in your system. it has a long elimination half-life, so chronic dosing at the 1 mg/day level you describe should put you on an even keel in no time. as for weight gain, this is a ubiquitously listed side effect of anything sedating: klonopin will not effect the levels of TSH, as some meds (lithium) will. thus, the get-up-and-go is up to you. as for xanax: i don't leave home without it, just in case. haven't had a breakthrough panic attack in several years, although in my case it was compounded by ssris or maois, which are stimulating. to recap, i would suspect that 1 mg klonopin/day will put you right in a short time, and keep the xanax at hand just in case...all the best, chemist
> >
>
>
Posted by patricia leahy on April 25, 2004, at 14:29:55
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on klonopin » patricia leahy, posted by chemist on April 25, 2004, at 13:25:26
>they are .5mg apiece so iam not even taking a full milligram then.
> >thanks for your input, you are so smart. now i really feel stupid asking this next question... but here goes.. does .5 mg and .5mg equal 1 full mg??? because what is on my bottle he prescribed is " Take one half to one pill aday or as needed" but isnt .5 only half of a mg? so shouldnt i be taking one.5mg in a.m and .5mg in evening? i hope i won't need the xanax much longer but good to have as a security. THanks and best to you
> >
> > hi there, 0.5 mg + 0.5 mg = 1 mg. are your tablets 1 mg, or are they 0.5 mg, in which case you would be taking 0.25 mg in the morning and then 0.25 at night....all the best, chemist
> >
> > > hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
> > >
> > > hi patricia....i assume you are taking klonopin 0.5 mg in the morning, then another 0.5 mg at night...kolopin takes a while - not long, maybe a week at the most - to build up in your system. it has a long elimination half-life, so chronic dosing at the 1 mg/day level you describe should put you on an even keel in no time. as for weight gain, this is a ubiquitously listed side effect of anything sedating: klonopin will not effect the levels of TSH, as some meds (lithium) will. thus, the get-up-and-go is up to you. as for xanax: i don't leave home without it, just in case. haven't had a breakthrough panic attack in several years, although in my case it was compounded by ssris or maois, which are stimulating. to recap, i would suspect that 1 mg klonopin/day will put you right in a short time, and keep the xanax at hand just in case...all the best, chemist
> > >
> >
> >
>
Posted by katalina on April 25, 2004, at 19:22:18
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on klonopin, posted by patricia leahy on April 25, 2004, at 14:29:55
I hope I'm not butting in here; but I just stumbled across your post and thought I'd help you out if I could . . . I know how confusing this can seem, I've been there myself.
Anyway, I take klonopin also in 0.5 doses 2x or 3x per day. The pills are scored, so if you are cutting them in half, you are only taking .25 twice a day, which is equiavalent of one 0.5 pill (as chemist stated). This then, is only half of one milligram per day, which is a pretty low dose for someone suffering anxiety and using xanax at all. I don't really have severe anxiety or panic, and I take 1.5 mgs (0.5 3x per day) which my neuro considers low (I take for some anxiety with Adderall). I was confused about the dosing for a bit when I started and was curious to what others used (what is considered high or not seems to vary person to person) so thought my 2 cents might be helpful!
Katie
> >they are .5mg apiece so iam not even taking a full milligram then.
>
>
>
> > >thanks for your input, you are so smart. now i really feel stupid asking this next question... but here goes.. does .5 mg and .5mg equal 1 full mg??? because what is on my bottle he prescribed is " Take one half to one pill aday or as needed" but isnt .5 only half of a mg? so shouldnt i be taking one.5mg in a.m and .5mg in evening? i hope i won't need the xanax much longer but good to have as a security. THanks and best to you
> > >
> > > hi there, 0.5 mg + 0.5 mg = 1 mg. are your tablets 1 mg, or are they 0.5 mg, in which case you would be taking 0.25 mg in the morning and then 0.25 at night....all the best, chemist
> > >
> > > > hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
> > > >
> > > > hi patricia....i assume you are taking klonopin 0.5 mg in the morning, then another 0.5 mg at night...kolopin takes a while - not long, maybe a week at the most - to build up in your system. it has a long elimination half-life, so chronic dosing at the 1 mg/day level you describe should put you on an even keel in no time. as for weight gain, this is a ubiquitously listed side effect of anything sedating: klonopin will not effect the levels of TSH, as some meds (lithium) will. thus, the get-up-and-go is up to you. as for xanax: i don't leave home without it, just in case. haven't had a breakthrough panic attack in several years, although in my case it was compounded by ssris or maois, which are stimulating. to recap, i would suspect that 1 mg klonopin/day will put you right in a short time, and keep the xanax at hand just in case...all the best, chemist
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Posted by chemist on April 25, 2004, at 23:10:08
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on klonopin, posted by katalina on April 25, 2004, at 19:22:18
> I hope I'm not butting in here; but I just stumbled across your post and thought I'd help you out if I could . . . I know how confusing this can seem, I've been there myself.
>
> Anyway, I take klonopin also in 0.5 doses 2x or 3x per day. The pills are scored, so if you are cutting them in half, you are only taking .25 twice a day, which is equiavalent of one 0.5 pill (as chemist stated). This then, is only half of one milligram per day, which is a pretty low dose for someone suffering anxiety and using xanax at all. I don't really have severe anxiety or panic, and I take 1.5 mgs (0.5 3x per day) which my neuro considers low (I take for some anxiety with Adderall). I was confused about the dosing for a bit when I started and was curious to what others used (what is considered high or not seems to vary person to person) so thought my 2 cents might be helpful!
>
> Katie
>
hi katie, many thanks if i can speak for the community here on your experience...all the best, chemist
>
>
> > >they are .5mg apiece so iam not even taking a full milligram then.
> >
> >
> >
> > > >thanks for your input, you are so smart. now i really feel stupid asking this next question... but here goes.. does .5 mg and .5mg equal 1 full mg??? because what is on my bottle he prescribed is " Take one half to one pill aday or as needed" but isnt .5 only half of a mg? so shouldnt i be taking one.5mg in a.m and .5mg in evening? i hope i won't need the xanax much longer but good to have as a security. THanks and best to you
> > > >
> > > > hi there, 0.5 mg + 0.5 mg = 1 mg. are your tablets 1 mg, or are they 0.5 mg, in which case you would be taking 0.25 mg in the morning and then 0.25 at night....all the best, chemist
> > > >
> > > > > hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
> > > > >
> > > > > hi patricia....i assume you are taking klonopin 0.5 mg in the morning, then another 0.5 mg at night...kolopin takes a while - not long, maybe a week at the most - to build up in your system. it has a long elimination half-life, so chronic dosing at the 1 mg/day level you describe should put you on an even keel in no time. as for weight gain, this is a ubiquitously listed side effect of anything sedating: klonopin will not effect the levels of TSH, as some meds (lithium) will. thus, the get-up-and-go is up to you. as for xanax: i don't leave home without it, just in case. haven't had a breakthrough panic attack in several years, although in my case it was compounded by ssris or maois, which are stimulating. to recap, i would suspect that 1 mg klonopin/day will put you right in a short time, and keep the xanax at hand just in case...all the best, chemist
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by patricia leahy on April 26, 2004, at 13:33:49
In reply to Re: Question for chemist on klonopin, posted by katalina on April 25, 2004, at 19:22:18
>thanks your and chemist have been very helpful, i took half yesterday morning of a.5mg and another half 6hours later and another half before bed no panic yet today.
I hope I'm not butting in here; but I just stumbled across your post and thought I'd help you out if I could . . . I know how confusing this can seem, I've been there myself.
>
> Anyway, I take klonopin also in 0.5 doses 2x or 3x per day. The pills are scored, so if you are cutting them in half, you are only taking .25 twice a day, which is equiavalent of one 0.5 pill (as chemist stated). This then, is only half of one milligram per day, which is a pretty low dose for someone suffering anxiety and using xanax at all. I don't really have severe anxiety or panic, and I take 1.5 mgs (0.5 3x per day) which my neuro considers low (I take for some anxiety with Adderall). I was confused about the dosing for a bit when I started and was curious to what others used (what is considered high or not seems to vary person to person) so thought my 2 cents might be helpful!
>
> Katie
>
>
>
> > >they are .5mg apiece so iam not even taking a full milligram then.
> >
> >
> >
> > > >thanks for your input, you are so smart. now i really feel stupid asking this next question... but here goes.. does .5 mg and .5mg equal 1 full mg??? because what is on my bottle he prescribed is " Take one half to one pill aday or as needed" but isnt .5 only half of a mg? so shouldnt i be taking one.5mg in a.m and .5mg in evening? i hope i won't need the xanax much longer but good to have as a security. THanks and best to you
> > > >
> > > > hi there, 0.5 mg + 0.5 mg = 1 mg. are your tablets 1 mg, or are they 0.5 mg, in which case you would be taking 0.25 mg in the morning and then 0.25 at night....all the best, chemist
> > > >
> > > > > hi you seem to be one of the more knowledgable on this, i just started taking.5mg of klonopin half in the a.m and half at bedtime, what is a good dosage do you think, also can i expect a breakthrough panic attack? and if so how soon after taking a dose of klonopin can i take a quick acting xanax? i am new to all this and alot of people on here have been very helpful. i take no SSRI's have anxiety with panic attacks, also, my paper that came with this, said one of side effects is changes in weight, is that good weight loss or bad weight gain? and how long before i can feel safe just on the klonopin without my security blanket "xanax"?
> > > > >
> > > > > hi patricia....i assume you are taking klonopin 0.5 mg in the morning, then another 0.5 mg at night...kolopin takes a while - not long, maybe a week at the most - to build up in your system. it has a long elimination half-life, so chronic dosing at the 1 mg/day level you describe should put you on an even keel in no time. as for weight gain, this is a ubiquitously listed side effect of anything sedating: klonopin will not effect the levels of TSH, as some meds (lithium) will. thus, the get-up-and-go is up to you. as for xanax: i don't leave home without it, just in case. haven't had a breakthrough panic attack in several years, although in my case it was compounded by ssris or maois, which are stimulating. to recap, i would suspect that 1 mg klonopin/day will put you right in a short time, and keep the xanax at hand just in case...all the best, chemist
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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