Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 337299

Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage

Posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

This is my first post so I first want to say hey to everyone. I am a 28 year old male that suffers from major depression and severe anxiety disorders that include panic, generalized, and OCD. My question is about the medication I take. I have been taking klonopin for over three years now 2mg in the morning and 2mg at night to combat these illnesses ( I also take SSRI's). But the Klonopin gives me the most relief from my symptoms. But I read and hear so much negativity about the addictive qualities of the drug and how bad it is to take it for long periods of time. I take it daily. It makes me feel normal and able to function somewhat like I could before I became ill. I never take more than I am supposed to and I do not drink alcohol. But I hear and read how Klonopin can be so dangerous and addictive and that scares me! I do not want to jepordize my health or make my problems worse if it is really inopropriate to take this med daily for long term use. I also take 20mg of Lexapro and 45mg of Remeron. But as I stated earlier the Klonopin is the one that seems to target the symptoms the best. So, anyone with any info on Klonopin use or someone that has taken Klonopin for extended periods (years). I would greatfully aprreciate your advice or input. Sorry about the long post. GOD BLESS.

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage BRC

Posted by judy1 on April 18, 2004, at 0:09:58

In reply to Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

I've taken 6mg/day of klonopin for 7 years. it is the only med that I feel has really helped me. In that context I honestly never worry about dependency, I never increase my dose, and my pdocs have all been supportive. It's normal to worry about benzos (especially with an anxiety disorder!), but try not to- you're fortunate you have found something that helps.
take care, judy

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage

Posted by chemist on April 18, 2004, at 2:16:37

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage BRC, posted by judy1 on April 18, 2004, at 0:09:58

well hello ther, from chemist....sounds like you are adhering to the no-booze plan plu benzos. klonopin has very long half-life (metabolism) and is a long smooth ride for GAD, agoraphobia, etc. yoou need to make the *mental* commitant to be on this drug for as long as it works. i have ben down the road with klonopin - up to only 2 mg qd - and have found that for me, personally, xanax is the answer. if you are not going up in dosaage - and this applies to both posters - then so be it. you have to go with what works. there will be memory problems as with any benzo, but klonopin is one of the more benign ones. having been around the block on at leat 6 benzos and the benzo-derivative xanax, i would say you are doing fine. it alleviates your symptoms, and there is no ``high'' associated with klonopin (c.f.. xanax, ativan, versed). 6 mg qd is in the category of combatting seizures.. but again, if it works for you, go with it. i had a good run of it, but my dx calls for xanax. be well, and best wishes, chemist


> I've taken 6mg/day of klonopin for 7 years. it is the only med that I feel has really helped me. In that context I honestly never worry about dependency, I never increase my dose, and my pdocs have all been supportive. It's normal to worry about benzos (especially with an anxiety disorder!), but try not to- you're fortunate you have found something that helps.
> take care, judy

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage » BRC

Posted by cubbybear on April 18, 2004, at 4:29:29

In reply to Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

There'll probably be controversy on the benzo drugs till the end of time. There's plenty of negativity and scare stories out there and you must take them with a grain of salt. There have been plenty of people who have been helped by Klonopin as well. If you're doing well on it and trust your doctor's judgement, focus on that alone, and try to ignore the "benzophobia".

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage

Posted by gheld on April 18, 2004, at 7:49:30

In reply to Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

Klonopin was originally developed as a drug for seizures and people who take it for that take up to 10 mg/day initially and seem to be able to back off as needed.

Personally, I'd much rather take Klonopin than any of the SSRI's, no matter how much it takes.

Having said that, Klonopin does some have depressive properties for some. You cold look into switching into another benzo like Xanax or Ativan that doesn't have depressive properties.

Having said that as well, if you have a program that's working for you, stay with it until your system tells you that it's time to back off a little.

I hoe you're getting your script from a psychiatrist that is also doing therapy with you, not a family physician.

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage BRC

Posted by terrics on April 18, 2004, at 9:26:06

In reply to Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

If you have no urge to increase the dose and have been on it a long time, I doubt you have to worry. Welcome!

I have been on Klonopin for 8 yrs and never increase the dose,sometimes I take less because it still makes me sleepy. Good luck. terrics

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage chemist

Posted by terrics on April 18, 2004, at 9:33:50

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by chemist on April 18, 2004, at 2:16:37

Hi Chemist, Just want to ask you a question about memory loss or more accurately memory slow-down. I saw that you posted klonopin causes memory problems and that is one of my meds. How about these; do they cause any memory complications? effexor xl, lithium xl,wellburin xl, inderal. thank you. terrics

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage

Posted by andyboy on April 18, 2004, at 10:19:49

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage chemist, posted by terrics on April 18, 2004, at 9:33:50

Hi
Agreeing with the above posters...if it works for you...dont be afraid of it. Ive been on Klono now for 3 years at 3mg/ day. (initially 2, however I believe this was a dose too low to begin with.) It too has done wonders for my anxiety/panic- I got my life back. "Dont believe the hype." I say! I too was caught up in a lot of the anti-benzo sentiments floating around- but do whats best for you- and for the time being...its seems like the Klonopin is! Take Care from another LT Klono buddy!

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage BRC

Posted by Sad Panda on April 18, 2004, at 13:24:03

In reply to Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

> This is my first post so I first want to say hey to everyone. I am a 28 year old male that suffers from major depression and severe anxiety disorders that include panic, generalized, and OCD. My question is about the medication I take. I have been taking klonopin for over three years now 2mg in the morning and 2mg at night to combat these illnesses ( I also take SSRI's). But the Klonopin gives me the most relief from my symptoms. But I read and hear so much negativity about the addictive qualities of the drug and how bad it is to take it for long periods of time. I take it daily. It makes me feel normal and able to function somewhat like I could before I became ill. I never take more than I am supposed to and I do not drink alcohol. But I hear and read how Klonopin can be so dangerous and addictive and that scares me! I do not want to jepordize my health or make my problems worse if it is really inopropriate to take this med daily for long term use. I also take 20mg of Lexapro and 45mg of Remeron. But as I stated earlier the Klonopin is the one that seems to target the symptoms the best. So, anyone with any info on Klonopin use or someone that has taken Klonopin for extended periods (years). I would greatfully aprreciate your advice or input. Sorry about the long post. GOD BLESS.
>
>

Hi BRC & Welcome to the board! :)

If you aren't increasing your dose & you aren't experiencing memory problems then I would say stick with Klonopin as long as you can.

Is Lexapro helping with depression & OCD? If not, try increasing that.

I'd suggest a lower dose of Remeron. It's only a very average AD, but it's a great sleeping tablet that fixes a few SSRI side effects.

Cheers,
Panda.


 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage terrics

Posted by Sad Panda on April 18, 2004, at 13:27:28

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage chemist, posted by terrics on April 18, 2004, at 9:33:50

>How about these; do they cause any memory complications? effexor xl, lithium xl,wellburin xl, inderal. thank you. terrics
>
>

Hi Terrics,

I had memory problems when trying to take Effexor at 300mg/day & had to settle for 225mg.

Cheers,
Panda.

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage terrics

Posted by chemist on April 18, 2004, at 16:03:03

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage chemist, posted by terrics on April 18, 2004, at 9:33:50

> Hi Chemist, Just want to ask you a question about memory loss or more accurately memory slow-down. I saw that you posted klonopin causes memory problems and that is one of my meds. How about these; do they cause any memory complications? effexor xl, lithium xl,wellburin xl, inderal. thank you. terrics

hi terrics....first, you will certainly be getting memory problems from klonopin, as from any benzo: this is a fact of life for these drugs. second, your lithium can cause cognitive impairment, even in the therapeutic dose range. now for effexor and wellbutrin and inderal. the white sheet in my PDR for effexor states that little to no cognitive impairment results from its administration, however, tucked further back in the section on adverse effects during premarketing trials, confusion and thinking abnormal are listed as having occurred as ``frequent,'' i.e., in at least 1 in 100 of the patients (here, 5356) involved in the trials. inderal has been shown to have adverse effects (and i quote) ``short-term memory loss,'' although the good folks at wyeth note that ``Most adverse effects have been mild and transient...'' wellbutrin might be a troublemaker with inderal, in that you might have to back-of the dosage of inderal due to wellbutrin being an inhibitor of the CYP2D6 enzyme that metabolizes inderal. during premarketing studies, memory loss was reported as infrequent (between 1/100 and 1/1000). now, more on lithium: a prety recent review entitled ``the effects of lithium on cognition: an updated review,'' pachet and wisniewski. psychopharmacology (berl.) 170:225-234 (2003) - i just read the abstract - concluded that 5 themes emerged fromtheir study: impairment of tasks of psychomotor speed; impaired functioning in studies involving verbal memory; no impairment of visuo-spatial constructional ability; no negative cumulative effect. this is the tip of the iceberg on lithium: hit pubmed (www.pubmed.org) and use keywords lithium and cognitive and see for yourself.....hope this helps, let me know! all the best, chemist

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage

Posted by patricia leahy on April 18, 2004, at 16:07:01

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by gheld on April 18, 2004, at 7:49:30

>Hello, Need some advice here myself, I have a GAD with bad panic attacks, been taking 1 to xanax a day, seems ok, have a new rx for lexapro, had for 2 weeks, afraid to take. so all your opinions, lexapro or klonopin? my sis says the latter

Klonopin was originally developed as a drug for seizures and people who take it for that take up to 10 mg/day initially and seem to be able to back off as needed.
>
> Personally, I'd much rather take Klonopin than any of the SSRI's, no matter how much it takes.
>
> Having said that, Klonopin does some have depressive properties for some. You cold look into switching into another benzo like Xanax or Ativan that doesn't have depressive properties.
>
> Having said that as well, if you have a program that's working for you, stay with it until your system tells you that it's time to back off a little.
>
> I hoe you're getting your script from a psychiatrist that is also doing therapy with you, not a family physician.

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage chemist

Posted by judy1 on April 18, 2004, at 19:25:30

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by chemist on April 18, 2004, at 2:16:37

Hi,
I probably should have been clearer about my dx- BP 1/ panic disorder, so in my case klonopin is used as a secondary MS (hence the fairly high dose) as well as treating panic disorder. I also have taken all the benzos, and still take xanax prn if I'm in the midst of a panic attack. I also found klonopin to be somewhat more depressing than xanax, and if I did not have bipolar disorder I would most likely use xanax also.
take care, judy

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage judy1

Posted by chemist on April 18, 2004, at 21:02:50

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage chemist, posted by judy1 on April 18, 2004, at 19:25:30

> Hi,
> I probably should have been clearer about my dx- BP 1/ panic disorder, so in my case klonopin is used as a secondary MS (hence the fairly high dose) as well as treating panic disorder. I also have taken all the benzos, and still take xanax prn if I'm in the midst of a panic attack. I also found klonopin to be somewhat more depressing than xanax, and if I did not have bipolar disorder I would most likely use xanax also.
> take care, judy

hi judy....klonopin has a half-life ranging from 18-50 hours, and the upper figure is probably more accurate. further, klonopin loses much of its efficacy after about 6-8 months, i.e., you hit the wall in terms of what it can do for you. valium has an even longer half-life - almost 1 week or longer - and i suspect that your lethargy is due to the klonopin buildup (you never have time for it to get out of your system, and you are taking quite a substantial dose). xanax is excellent prn for panic, but have you considered ativan, which does not cross the blood-brain barrier as quickly as valium (on a prn dosing, not chronic, and this is due to the presence of 2 chloro substituents in ativan vs. one in valium, plus there is a hydrophobic methyl group in valium that is not present in ativan, fyi) *but* ativan has a short half-life and a longer reidence time once it does cross the blood-brain barrier (up to about 1 day). you would feel less sluggish, and your system would have time to clear out the ativan so that the effectiveness would remain steady....let me know, and all the best, chemist

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage chemist

Posted by terrics on April 19, 2004, at 17:15:31

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage terrics, posted by chemist on April 18, 2004, at 16:03:03

thank you for the info. No wonder my memory is so bad, especially verbal. I'll check out pubmed. terrics

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage

Posted by judy1 on April 19, 2004, at 19:19:24

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage judy1, posted by chemist on April 18, 2004, at 21:02:50

I really don't feel any loss of efficacy in the seven years I've taken klonopin- 6mg is simply the dose that works for me. I did try ativan, but it doesn't work nearly as well as klonopin (for me) in stopping panic attacks. I think depression is more descriptive of how I feel then 'sluggish', and my pdoc agreed that several of his patients have complained of feeling depressed on klonopin then any of the other benzos. I still have manic episodes however, while klonopin keeps the panic disorder under control I have never hit the right combo (despite taking every conceivable mood stabilizer/AP/and combos of) and still have a rapid cycling bipolar disorder. I am a huge fan of benzos for anxiety disorders though.
thanks for the input- judy

 

above for chemist (nm)

Posted by judy1 on April 19, 2004, at 19:27:37

In reply to Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by judy1 on April 19, 2004, at 19:19:24

 

Re: Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage

Posted by waterfall on April 19, 2004, at 20:17:50

In reply to Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

Hi,
I was on 4 mgs of Klonipin daily for several years when I decided to stop. I went down by 1/4 mg a week for 16 weeks. There was one week where I didn't feel I could go down but other than that had no problems and never felt like I was fighting an addiction, just testing my anxiety level without benzos. I still take it occasionally, and sometimes take it regularly for a few weeks if things are bad and I don't have any trouble stopping. I know there are terrible stories out there, but I've been on it steady, off it, and on-again-off-again without any trouble or feelings of physical addiction. Good luck!

 

Re: Klonopin -- BRC and Chemist

Posted by Rick on April 21, 2004, at 1:02:41

In reply to Please!! Need Advice on Klonopin usage, posted by BRC on April 17, 2004, at 22:38:18

BRC - Been on Klonopin five years, starting at 2.5-3.0 mg/day, but tapering (with no problems whatsoever) to 1 mg/day after the first year. That's where I am today, and it's still a godsend for my social anxiety. At the current dose I have no side effects, other than a few welcome ones, believe it or not. The one exception is indeed some memory lapses, and perhaps also somewhat poorer distance judgment (e.g. I sometimes tend to end up following the car in front of me too closely and have to brake harder).

My pdoc has been prescribing Klonopin since it was introduced, and assures me it's highly unlikely that I'd ever have any problem tapering off it (not that I intend to!), as long as I stay at a daily dose of 3 mg or less.

To Chemist and others writing about Klonopin memory issues - As I said, Klonopin does casue memory deficits for me sometimes, although they are *usually* not a significant problem and are hugely outweighed by the benefits.

It's nice to note that there may be some renewed interest in benzos among pdocs, due to marketing efforts by two new on-patent benzo products: Xanax XR (Pfizer) and Klonopin Wafers (Solvay -- originators of now off-patent Luvox -- on license from Roche). In fact there is a supplement to the May Journal of Clinical Psychiatry all about revisiting benzos and their great effectiveness for many anxiety disorders. Several of the articles extol the virtues of Klonopin over other benzos (oh, did I mention the Journal supplement is based on a recent benzo symposium funded by an "unrestricted" ;) grant from Solvay)? Anyway, one of the articles, from the respected Massachusetts General Hospital, asserts that Klonopin causes the least memory impairment of any benzo due to its low lipid solubility. I was startled to see this bluntly stated as fact, without any study references. Other things they say (which they *do* cite references for): In chronic benzo use, tolerance tends to develop to the amnesic effects. And what memory effects *do* occur are primarily restricted to the 90 minutes immediately following dosing. Hmmm...I'm so grateful for my Klonopin, but I don't know 'bout those "facts"...

Regardless, even though I don't take Klonopin Wafers or Xanax XR, I'm sure glad they were introduced so that the some of the pharmaceutical companies would start studying and promoting this immensely useful class of meds instead of continuing to bad-mouth them to sell more of their on-patent SSRI's.

Rick

 

Re: Klonopin -- BRC and Chemist - A Correction

Posted by Rick on April 21, 2004, at 1:23:46

In reply to Re: Klonopin -- BRC and Chemist, posted by Rick on April 21, 2004, at 1:02:41

A correction to my post:

Although the recent supplement I cited from the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry does indeed have a Klonopin-praising article from Massachusetts General Hospital, the author of the article asserting Klonopin's lower degree of memory impairment is from the University of Montreal.

BTW, the supplement is available online, but it requires a subscription that provides one year of unlimited online access to current and past issues of the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry. It costs $60, but in case anyone is interested the link is:

http://www.psychiatrist.com

> BRC - Been on Klonopin five years, starting at 2.5-3.0 mg/day, but tapering (with no problems whatsoever) to 1 mg/day after the first year. That's where I am today, and it's still a godsend for my social anxiety. At the current dose I have no side effects, other than a few welcome ones, believe it or not. The one exception is indeed some memory lapses, and perhaps also somewhat poorer distance judgment (e.g. I sometimes tend to end up following the car in front of me too closely and have to brake harder).
>
> My pdoc has been prescribing Klonopin since it was introduced, and assures me it's highly unlikely that I'd ever have any problem tapering off it (not that I intend to!), as long as I stay at a daily dose of 3 mg or less.
>
> To Chemist and others writing about Klonopin memory issues - As I said, Klonopin does casue memory deficits for me sometimes, although they are *usually* not a significant problem and are hugely outweighed by the benefits.
>
> It's nice to note that there may be some renewed interest in benzos among pdocs, due to marketing efforts by two new on-patent benzo products: Xanax XR (Pfizer) and Klonopin Wafers (Solvay -- originators of now off-patent Luvox -- on license from Roche). In fact there is a supplement to the May Journal of Clinical Psychiatry all about revisiting benzos and their great effectiveness for many anxiety disorders. Several of the articles extol the virtues of Klonopin over other benzos (oh, did I mention the Journal supplement is based on a recent benzo symposium funded by an "unrestricted" ;) grant from Solvay)? Anyway, one of the articles, from the respected Massachusetts General Hospital, asserts that Klonopin causes the least memory impairment of any benzo due to its low lipid solubility. I was startled to see this bluntly stated as fact, without any study references. Other things they say (which they *do* cite references for): In chronic benzo use, tolerance tends to develop to the amnesic effects. And what memory effects *do* occur are primarily restricted to the 90 minutes immediately following dosing. Hmmm...I'm so grateful for my Klonopin, but I don't know 'bout those "facts"...
>
> Regardless, even though I don't take Klonopin Wafers or Xanax XR, I'm sure glad they were introduced so that the some of the pharmaceutical companies would start studying and promoting this immensely useful class of meds instead of continuing to bad-mouth them to sell more of their on-patent SSRI's.
>
> Rick

 

Re: Klonopin -- BRC and Chemist - A Correction Rick

Posted by chemist on April 21, 2004, at 13:19:34

In reply to Re: Klonopin -- BRC and Chemist - A Correction, posted by Rick on April 21, 2004, at 1:23:46

> A correction to my post:
>
> Although the recent supplement I cited from the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry does indeed have a Klonopin-praising article from Massachusetts General Hospital, the author of the article asserting Klonopin's lower degree of memory impairment is from the University of Montreal.
>
> BTW, the supplement is available online, but it requires a subscription that provides one year of unlimited online access to current and past issues of the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry. It costs $60, but in case anyone is interested the link is:
>
> http://www.psychiatrist.com
>
> > BRC - Been on Klonopin five years, starting at 2.5-3.0 mg/day, but tapering (with no problems whatsoever) to 1 mg/day after the first year. That's where I am today, and it's still a godsend for my social anxiety. At the current dose I have no side effects, other than a few welcome ones, believe it or not. The one exception is indeed some memory lapses, and perhaps also somewhat poorer distance judgment (e.g. I sometimes tend to end up following the car in front of me too closely and have to brake harder).
> >
> > My pdoc has been prescribing Klonopin since it was introduced, and assures me it's highly unlikely that I'd ever have any problem tapering off it (not that I intend to!), as long as I stay at a daily dose of 3 mg or less.
> >
> > To Chemist and others writing about Klonopin memory issues - As I said, Klonopin does casue memory deficits for me sometimes, although they are *usually* not a significant problem and are hugely outweighed by the benefits.
> >
> > It's nice to note that there may be some renewed interest in benzos among pdocs, due to marketing efforts by two new on-patent benzo products: Xanax XR (Pfizer) and Klonopin Wafers (Solvay -- originators of now off-patent Luvox -- on license from Roche). In fact there is a supplement to the May Journal of Clinical Psychiatry all about revisiting benzos and their great effectiveness for many anxiety disorders. Several of the articles extol the virtues of Klonopin over other benzos (oh, did I mention the Journal supplement is based on a recent benzo symposium funded by an "unrestricted" ;) grant from Solvay)? Anyway, one of the articles, from the respected Massachusetts General Hospital, asserts that Klonopin causes the least memory impairment of any benzo due to its low lipid solubility. I was startled to see this bluntly stated as fact, without any study references. Other things they say (which they *do* cite references for): In chronic benzo use, tolerance tends to develop to the amnesic effects. And what memory effects *do* occur are primarily restricted to the 90 minutes immediately following dosing. Hmmm...I'm so grateful for my Klonopin, but I don't know 'bout those "facts"...
> >
> > Regardless, even though I don't take Klonopin Wafers or Xanax XR, I'm sure glad they were introduced so that the some of the pharmaceutical companies would start studying and promoting this immensely useful class of meds instead of continuing to bad-mouth them to sell more of their on-patent SSRI's.
> >
> > Rick
>
>
hey rick, i am on the same page as you in re: less ssri, more alternatives. did the klonopin thing myself up to 2 mg qd and had no problems tapering (for yet another benzo, of course!) and agree that the memory problems are rather inconsequential when compared to the relief. sure, i'd like to remember where i was and who i was talking to about what for the past 10+ years, but i can just repeat myself and people take it in stride....the xanax extended release form is supposed to be a real winner, and thank you for pointing me in the direction of solvay's latest contribution to the effort, i was not aware....and thank you for the references, they were under my radar....all the best, chemist


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