Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 336284

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Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by tyagua on April 14, 2004, at 11:18:47

I'm on 300mg Lamictal and 150 of Effexor. I seem to have a Personality Disorder (she says last week).I was Bipolar for 3 yrs previous. So she tells me I have 1 month to stop my Klonopin. I am anxious I have a wierd pain/nausea behind my eyes, extreme irritability and impulsive anger outburts (yelling or throwing things). So she prescibes, therapy therapy therapy.
I know I sound like a junky but when I take my Klonopin I feel ok. Why take it away?

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by shadows721 on April 14, 2004, at 23:45:17

In reply to Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by tyagua on April 14, 2004, at 11:18:47

How long have you been on Klonopin?

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by rianny on April 15, 2004, at 1:13:28

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by shadows721 on April 14, 2004, at 23:45:17

Might be because Klonopin can cause depression. I've on low dos of Klonopin for about 2 months, and I feel depressed. I'm tappering off now and feel like **it. I wasn't taking any drug or supplement for last 2 months.

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by tyagua on April 15, 2004, at 16:51:09

In reply to Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by tyagua on April 14, 2004, at 11:18:47

I started taking Klonopin regularly again in January. I can see the point about it making me depressed I'm 99.9% that rings true for me. But this anxiety is frustrating I guess I feel like I still want it treated chemically. I think I'm going to quit the Klonopin as quickily( and safely) as I can instead of nursing myself along with it.
Thanks for the thoughts!- Ty

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » tyagua

Posted by Viridis on April 16, 2004, at 3:04:26

In reply to Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by tyagua on April 14, 2004, at 11:18:47

If Klonopin helps and you aren't abusing it, it sounds foolish to discontinue it. I'd look into other doctors with more common sense, or at least discuss this with your doctor (if you can)and explain how it helps you. Doctors are there to help you, and if one is unsatisfactory find another. It's not much different from auto mechanics, plumbers etc -- a few are good, but most are mediocre at best. You don't have to put up with this.

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by rvanson on April 17, 2004, at 1:03:11

In reply to Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by tyagua on April 14, 2004, at 11:18:47

> I'm on 300mg Lamictal and 150 of Effexor. I seem to have a Personality Disorder (she says last week).I was Bipolar for 3 yrs previous. So she tells me I have 1 month to stop my Klonopin. I am anxious I have a wierd pain/nausea behind my eyes, extreme irritability and impulsive anger outburts (yelling or throwing things). So she prescibes, therapy therapy therapy.
> I know I sound like a junky but when I take my Klonopin I feel ok. Why take it away?

IMHO, you have a Benzo-phobic doctor, or one that belongs to a physcians group who are cutting back on Benzo's.

If the Knlonpin is helping you, when you need it, adn you havent abused it, you need to find a new doctor.

Benzos' are some of the safest medications available, BTW.

If it helps you, I suggest you DUMP this doctor and find one that wants to help you, not some chump who tows the corporate HMO line.

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by almondjoy on April 17, 2004, at 10:07:57

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by rvanson on April 17, 2004, at 1:03:11

Your doctor might just be acting in your best interests. By discontinuing your Klonopin, they might be helping you avoid getting addicted (if you aren't a bit already...whether physically or mentally). I don't think benzos are "bad" or anything, but they're better for short term help. Therapy and learning other ways of coping with your anxiety has the potential to help you for the rest of your life instead of for the next 4-6 hours. Try learning some breathing exercises in the next month and tough it out, if for no other reason than to say you tried a new approach.

d

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy

Posted by zeugma on April 17, 2004, at 10:22:35

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by almondjoy on April 17, 2004, at 10:07:57

<Try learning some breathing exercises in the next month and tough it out, if for no other reason than to say you tried a new approach>

Sadly, my pdoc made me jump through hoops before he would let me try Klonopin. It has more to do with politics than medicine, and politics= bad medicine. I suffered greatly while 'toughing it out.'

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by andyboy on April 18, 2004, at 10:24:06

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy, posted by zeugma on April 17, 2004, at 10:22:35

If the Klono is working for the anxiety...I would agree that its time to find a new doctor. He/she is apparently anti-benzo and although they be looking out for your best interest, everyone is different and if its working for you- why ruin a good thing??? Best wishes!

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by almondjoy on April 19, 2004, at 10:34:21

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by almondjoy on April 17, 2004, at 10:07:57

> Try learning some breathing exercises in the next month and tough it out >

Sorry, for saying "tough it out" ...that's bull... but i understand your doc's pov, even if politics are involved, benzos can't help you handle anxiety over the long haul...

good luck however you decide to handle the situation

d

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by zeugma on April 19, 2004, at 17:40:44

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by almondjoy on April 19, 2004, at 10:34:21

> > Try learning some breathing exercises in the next month and tough it out >
>
> Sorry, for saying "tough it out" ...that's bull... but i understand your doc's pov, even if politics are involved, benzos can't help you handle anxiety over the long haul...

Why do you say "benzos can't help handle anxiety over the long haul"? Is there any evidence to suggest that benzos are ineffective anxiolytics long term?
>
> good luck however you decide to handle the situation
> Thanks, I have suffered from horrific anxiety- no, fear- all my life and simply want to stop feeling like my amygdala is having its 'fear' button pushed every minute. AD's help the panic but don't counter the visceral sensations of fear that I constantly am swamped with. I have been in many kinds of therapy all my life and none has yielded the slightest relief of these dysphoric sensations.
> d
> z

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » zeugma

Posted by almondjoy on April 20, 2004, at 14:56:39

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by zeugma on April 19, 2004, at 17:40:44

> > > Try learning some breathing exercises in the next month and tough it out >
> >
> > Sorry, for saying "tough it out" ...that's bull... but i understand your doc's pov, even if politics are involved, benzos can't help you handle anxiety over the long haul...
>
> Why do you say "benzos can't help handle anxiety over the long haul"? Is there any evidence to suggest that benzos are ineffective anxiolytics long term?
> >
> > good luck however you decide to handle the situation
> > Thanks, I have suffered from horrific anxiety- no, fear- all my life and simply want to stop feeling like my amygdala is having its 'fear' button pushed every minute. AD's help the panic but don't counter the visceral sensations of fear that I constantly am swamped with. I have been in many kinds of therapy all my life and none has yielded the slightest relief of these dysphoric sensations.
> > d
> > z
>
>

Benzos dont help over the long haul and I'm not talking about studies or stats but logic taking a pill won't FIX anxiety. You can take it for six months or 16 years and if you haven't found other coping skills or an underlying biological problem, should you stop taking benzos the problem is still going to be there, and maybe be even be worse because of dependency on the medication.

It's well known that benzos are highly addictive, and it's happened to me on ativan. After taking a benzo for months the same dosage might not help as much, or you might be extremely upset or afraid at the idea of stopping. Aside from quitting, once it starts it can only get worse.

I absolutely think that anyone with a medical condition should be knowledgable about it and involved in the treatment decisions, but at the same time we have to trust that our healthcare providers have objectivity that we can't have and knowledge that we might not have. If you're not satisfied with your treatment or you don't trust your doc then don't stay, but if it really comes down to whether or not your doc will give you a script for benzos then REALLY think about it. And it can't hurt to talk to your doc about it, too. Just tell them you think its the only thing thats helped and you might go see someone else...


take care

d

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » zeugma

Posted by almondjoy on April 20, 2004, at 16:21:31

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by zeugma on April 19, 2004, at 17:40:44

And it can't hurt to talk to your doc about it, too. Just tell them you think its the only thing thats helped and you might go see someone else...
>
>
sorry...to confuse you w/ tyagua

d

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy

Posted by zeugma on April 20, 2004, at 20:47:31

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » zeugma, posted by almondjoy on April 20, 2004, at 14:56:39

> > > > Try learning some breathing exercises in the next month and tough it out >
> > >
> > > Sorry, for saying "tough it out" ...that's bull... but i understand your doc's pov, even if politics are involved, benzos can't help you handle anxiety over the long haul...
> >
> > Why do you say "benzos can't help handle anxiety over the long haul"? Is there any evidence to suggest that benzos are ineffective anxiolytics long term?
> > >
> > > good luck however you decide to handle the situation
> > > Thanks, I have suffered from horrific anxiety- no, fear- all my life and simply want to stop feeling like my amygdala is having its 'fear' button pushed every minute. AD's help the panic but don't counter the visceral sensations of fear that I constantly am swamped with. I have been in many kinds of therapy all my life and none has yielded the slightest relief of these dysphoric sensations.
> > > d
> > > z
> >
> >
>
> Benzos dont help over the long haul and I'm not talking about studies or stats but logic taking a pill won't FIX anxiety. You can take it for six months or 16 years and if you haven't found other coping skills or an underlying biological problem, should you stop taking benzos the problem is still going to be there, and maybe be even be worse because of dependency on the medication.

Well, at this point I'm not looking to 'fix' anything. I have severe ADD and depression and probably narcolepsy as well, and the pills I take don't 'fix' these conditions, they are PART of the coping itself. i feel like every day I am trying to work out ways of coping with a lifetime of trauma, and this is the way i have felt forever. My anxiety has been so intense that i have suffered from malnutrition because i lose my appetite completely under stress. Even with Strattera I need to drink about six to eight cups of coffee a day to manage my lack of concentration and energy. I see a therapist weekly, but as i have told her, I have been in therapy since the age of 12, and on balance , it has done FAR more harm than good (this therapist is the first one i trust since one i saw in the hospital at 21). the only thing that has cleared a space large enough for me to function is the appropriate medication. So I disagree with your premise that dependency will worsen the underlying problem. The medications do treat the 'underlying biological problem.'
>
> It's well known that benzos are highly addictive, and it's happened to me on ativan. After taking a benzo for months the same dosage might not help as much, or you might be extremely upset or afraid at the idea of stopping. Aside from quitting, once it starts it can only get worse.


>

> I absolutely think that anyone with a medical condition should be knowledgable about it and involved in the treatment decisions, but at the same time we have to trust that our healthcare providers have objectivity that we can't have and knowledge that we might not have. If you're not satisfied with your treatment or you don't trust your doc then don't stay, but if it really comes down to whether or not your doc will give you a script for benzos then REALLY think about it. And it can't hurt to talk to your doc about it, too. Just tell them you think its the only thing thats helped and you might go see someone else...
>
>
> take care
>
> d

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy

Posted by Viridis on April 21, 2004, at 0:11:06

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by almondjoy on April 19, 2004, at 10:34:21

Would you "tough it out" if you had diabetes and decided to quit taking insulin? Anxiety is a very real, very physical (biochemical) problem for many people. Of course, behavioral modification is the ideal approach and works well for some, but others simply seem to have a predisposition to severe anxiety that's (apparently) due to neurotransmitter imbalances, receptor deficiencies, etc.

Many people use benzos for years or even decades with no apparent harm. I wouldn't advocate using them as a crutch if other solutions are possible, but prolonged, intense anxiety seems much more likely to cause physical and mental damage than responsible benzo use, given the available evidence.

The idea that benzos are "addictive" is a recurring theme, but I have yet to see any reliable evidence that this is a problem for more than a small proportion of users, mostly those who take them recreationally. It's remarkable how often the term "addiction" is used with almost no data that I'm aware of to back up this assertion.

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » Viridis

Posted by almondjoy on April 21, 2004, at 20:49:25

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy, posted by Viridis on April 21, 2004, at 0:11:06

> Would you "tough it out" if you had diabetes and decided to quit taking insulin?
Anxiety is a very real, very physical (biochemical) problem for many people.

I haven't said and don't believe anxiety isn't a "real" problem, but taking benzos for anxiety is not the same as taking insulin for diabetes.

> The idea that benzos are "addictive" is a recurring theme, but I have yet to see any reliable evidence that this is a problem for more than a small proportion of users, mostly those who take them recreationally. It's remarkable how often the term "addiction" is used with almost no data that I'm aware of to back up this assertion.

If you looked very far, you'd find alot about it...including the klonopin drug info from roche that has a section about drug abuse and dependence and do a search on benzos and dependence at google. Really gimme a break! You seriously don't think people get addicted to benzo? It's happened to me, and I've met many others who were prescribed medication (both benzos and pain killers) and got addicted to them. If you haven't seen any evidence to back that up, you haven't looked far or have chosen not believe what you saw. Addiction doesn't mean becoming a prostitute so you can get more...

I've been treated for anxiety and depression for years, and after difficulty quitting ativan twice (after taking it for a few months) I respect my docs decision to do whatever we have to do aside from restarting it. I have panic attacks occasionally and am anxious most of the time, but don't feel that treatment of anxiety necessitates medicinal therapy like depression or diabetes. Even if I'm truly miserable and wanting to call my doc and get a script, if I wait it out and talk about it rationally to my doc I realize it doesn't help a thing. What helps is when I think "what do I do to make it to tomorrow?"

All that being said, everyone is different. Additionally,people believe what they want to believe, and I think benzos are no real help, they might get someone over a hump, but aren't worth it other than that....even if they don't get addicted.

I posted to answer tyagua's question asking why a doc would stop klonopin, not to argue a point, my mind is made up, so if yours it too then no point in arguing. i agree to disagree, eh?

d

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » zeugma

Posted by almondjoy on April 21, 2004, at 20:58:49

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy, posted by zeugma on April 20, 2004, at 20:47:31


> Well, at this point I'm not looking to 'fix' anything. I have severe ADD and depression and probably narcolepsy as well, and the pills I take don't 'fix' these conditions, they are PART of the coping itself. i feel like every day I am trying to work out ways of coping with a lifetime of trauma, and this is the way i have felt forever. My anxiety has been so intense that i have suffered from malnutrition because i lose my appetite completely under stress. Even with Strattera I need to drink about six to eight cups of coffee a day to manage my lack of concentration and energy. I see a therapist weekly, but as i have told her, I have been in therapy since the age of 12, and on balance , it has done FAR more harm than good (this therapist is the first one i trust since one i saw in the hospital at 21). the only thing that has cleared a space large enough for me to function is the appropriate medication. So I disagree with your premise that dependency will worsen the underlying problem. The medications do treat the 'underlying biological problem.'
> >

Everyone is different, and responds to medication differently, so if you have found a combo that works for you then i guess you'd be one of the lucky few. If you still have these problems then maybe the strattera isn't effective treatment, and caffeine can be making anxiety even worse. i mostly agree about therapy doing lots of harm. i guess it helps some people, but i'm with you in the bunch that it hasn't. i'm in a decent mood tonight so i can say, optimistically, that someday hopefully we'll all figure it out (and if we don't i guess we kept ourselves busy for quite a while)

d

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy

Posted by Viridis on April 22, 2004, at 1:42:25

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » Viridis, posted by almondjoy on April 21, 2004, at 20:49:25

I guess my main point is that all sorts of medications that some people really need (to function properly, or even to survive) cause medical dependency, yet most aren't regarded as "addictive", even if stopping them suddenly can be very serious. The same is true of benzos.

Addiction involves cravings, irrational behavior, increased dosing despite harm to the user, abuse of the drug, etc. Most benzo users don't experience this, although they may undergo withdrawal, which can be severe (although not as often as with some of the most commonly prescribed antidepressants). Xanax may be an exception, as a fair number of people really do seem to get into trouble with it, but the other benzos such as Klonopin are pretty benign (as is Xanax, when used appropriately).

This isn't a matter of opinion or semantics; it's just a statement of the facts based on the available medical and scientific evidence. You may have had an unusual experience, but to treat this as a generality is simply inaccurate. People here are free to express any opinion they want. However, unless it's backed up by some evidence, it strikes me as unreasonable to scare those who might benefit away from medications that have proven safe and useful for decades.

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by cletus2 on April 22, 2004, at 12:13:23

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin? » almondjoy, posted by Viridis on April 22, 2004, at 1:42:25

Virdis, you hit the nail on the head. I was a little hesitant to start klonopin due to concerns of addiction, but my doctor adamantly insisted that I not get caught up in all the ignorant arguments concerning addiction. He explained to me that many people confuse addiction (mostly a detrimental behavioral/lifestyle change effect) with physical dependence (a physiological necessity). He stated that in a small percentage of people who are susceptible to addictive behavior, benzos can pose a potential problem. However, in the majority of individuals, benzos are perfectly safe and effective. He also stated that during long-term benzo treatment one would have to slowly taper off the drug in order to avoid any withdrawal issues due to the physical dependence that the individual would have developed. However, he emphatically stated that this is not an indication that the person was "addicted" to the drug, but rather physically dependant on it. Just as Virdis pointed out, this encompasses a great deal of medications that people take on a daily basis. I swear my pdoc gave me a thirty minute lecture on the difference of the two definitions in order to better inform me so I don’t get caught up in the negative stereotyping of these drugs, thus steering me away from pursuing an effective/safe treatment for myself (although for others with addiction issues it may not be). One a side note, I have been taking Klonopin for a little bit now and I think it works extremely well for me.

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by tyagua on April 22, 2004, at 21:56:28

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by cletus2 on April 22, 2004, at 12:13:23

Thanks for the discussion. I have now been off the Klonopin for about a week. I no longer use it daily I have taken .5mg 2x this week and it didn't do anything. That's ok I'm done with it. I can't remember who said it but someone mentioned that Klon can have depression as a side effect. I think that was true for me. P.S. I love this site! -Ty
Thank you -nice people-

 

Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?

Posted by blnch on April 24, 2004, at 18:33:31

In reply to Re: Why would my Doc stop my Klonopin?, posted by tyagua on April 22, 2004, at 21:56:28

The most likely answer is in your first post: because you have a Personality Disorder. If that PD is Borderline PD, it is WELL known than ANY diazepam, including Klonopin, is contra-indicated.

This is because of 2 things:

1) It will cause you to become even more disinhibited.

2) With BPDs, there is a certainty of addiction and it is common to think "if one is good - 2, 3, 4 are better, and so on..."


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