Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 330066

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Re: Do antidepressants really work?

Posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 18:58:19

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by snapper on March 30, 2004, at 16:52:59

Hi there Snapper.

> ..yes 'real depression and bi-polar disorder' def are brain illnesses or disorders- I guess it boils down to weather it- the said disorder is caused by exogenous or endogenous factors or perhaps a combination of both! who really knows

Many times, if not most often, I think it is an exogenous factor or factors (psychosocial) that precipitate and perpetuate the endogenous dysfunction that an individual is biologically vulnerable to. That is why it is so important to deal with the psychological issues that stess the brain. Using a combination of psychotherapy and chemotherapy is usually better than using either one alone.


- Scott

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work?

Posted by lelebug on March 30, 2004, at 22:38:16

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 18:58:19

I would love to understand more how these drugs are suppose to work. I have been on Lexapro since Jan. After two weeks I felt fabulous. I was getting my patience back my mind wasn't racing. I was happy again. Then slowly it just started to peter out. Three weeks ago my Dr upped my dosage from 10mg to 20mg and not much has changed. I called him yesterday to see if we could up the dosage and he said to wait a couple more weeks. I wonder if this isn't the drug for me or if I just haven't hit the right dosage for me? I have wondered a lot lately if SSRI's really do work or if this was just a way to shut me up.

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work?

Posted by snapper on March 31, 2004, at 0:23:03

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 18:58:19

> Hi there Snapper.
>
> > ..yes 'real depression and bi-polar disorder' def are brain illnesses or disorders- I guess it boils down to weather it- the said disorder is caused by exogenous or endogenous factors or perhaps a combination of both! who really knows
>
> Many times, if not most often, I think it is an exogenous factor or factors (psychosocial) that precipitate and perpetuate the endogenous dysfunction that an individual is biologically vulnerable to. That is why it is so important to deal with the psychological issues that stess the brain. Using a combination of psychotherapy and chemotherapy is usually better than using either one alone.
>
>
> - Scott
> Hi Scott,thanks for the reply-- I am begining to really realize the intertwined workings of exogenous and endogenous complications of which came first so to speak! -- after spending the last 13-14 years trying to "fix" my problems will pills I am now understanding that It goes much deeper than that. 50 meds plus!
I consider myself treatment resistant and possibly refractory other than the brief period of semi-sanity when I had ect. Now I am only taking the bare min of meds- and am coming to fully understand what most of my issues are- Being so resistant to meds does'nt help but I guess I will just have to ask my T weather she thinks I should be on a semi-effective anti-depressant or not so I can wade thru the emotional BS I have encounterd and endured in my life-I am not real functional on AD's and I am not real functional w/o them- one thing I have noticed in the last several weeks of being minimally medicated is the fact that even though the dep and anxiety is very strong and disabling, I seem to be able to think thru things a litle more effectively-not a clear head mind you but just that I am more away of things and problems that I guess just need to be once and for all "DEALT WITH AND RESOLVED" one way or the other!!!!! Sometimes I think that is why AD's might work is by masking the real trauma or hurts or grief in life!! God it hurts :( ...just tell me it gets better!! or maybe it does'nt!
What do you think?
Snapper

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? snapper

Posted by Simus on March 31, 2004, at 1:24:56

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 21:44:50

Snapper,

I have been reading some of your posts, and I think you are on the right track.

Certain medications have helped me to some degree, but others, well, I am glad that those other experiences are behind me.

But I am starting to strongly believe that we need to address the underlying cause of our problems, not just put a "band-aid" on the symptoms. Yes, the drugs can help our brains use chemicals more efficiently. But why are our brains low in these chemicals in the first place?

My research keeps pointing to nutrition. I don't mean JUST a healthy lifestyle: good diet, exercise, sleep, avoiding stress, etc. But also added vitamins, minerals, amino acids, Omega oils, etc., in the right balance for OUR bodies. That is easier to say than to achieve, because so many factors come into play. How does our body digest the nutrients it gets? Are there any genetic factors that cause our bodies to not utilize certain nutrients properly? Do we have excess of certain minerals that deplete us of others? There are so many factors.

I am still on ADs. And I may be for a while yet. It is tough to figure out what your body needs nutritionally, and what it has in excess. I have found that doctors don't generally see the value in nutrition, and thus aren't greatly helpful. I don't completely blame them. The drug companies have a lot at stake, and they have the ear of the medical community. Money talks. And then there is the fact that medical insurances do not always cover "unconventional" testing and treatment. How ironic that the one thing that may save them from the ridiculous costs of ADs, they won't even consider covering.

Good luck on your journey back to health.

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco

Posted by rainbowlight on March 31, 2004, at 3:51:06

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? rainbowlight, posted by francesco on March 30, 2004, at 5:40:16

Hi Francesco. I take Lamictal, Remeron, a small dose of Zoloft and Restoril for sleep. It DID take me tons and tons of med trials to get the perfect med combo for me, but it has been like night and day for me. Like a heavy cloud was lifted out of my life. I still have some rough spots, but nothing like the crippling OCD, anxiety and depression I have dealt with in the past.

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work?

Posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 8:56:47

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? snapper, posted by Simus on March 31, 2004, at 1:24:56

> But I am starting to strongly believe that we need to address the underlying cause of our problems, not just put a "band-aid" on the symptoms.

I think this is much too broad a generalization to represent depressive illness. "We" certainly does not include me. My problem has shown itself to be %100 biological. No amount of psychotherapy in the world would makes a dent in my condition. I've tried. My brief periods of wellness produced by medication have been more than simply not feeling "bummed-out". In fact, even at my worst, I usually don't experience dysphoria. I am vegetative and cognitively demented.

It seems that each individual will fit uniquely somewhere within the spectrum of mood illness, with relative contributions ranging from 100% biological to 100% psychological.

I wish my illness were 100% psychological. I wouldn't mind doing the work necessary to bring myself into remission. At least I would have some control as to how I feel.

I know - the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Well, I've been on the other side of the fence. I once experienced a remission for 9 months brought about by a treatment using a combination of antidepressants. Of course, it was wonderful. Cosmic. Ah, but I did get "bummed-out" from time to time during this period. However, this was a totally different experience. I got depressed over the loss of an intimate relationship. But the depression that resulted was transient and felt completely different than how I experience bipolar disorder. They were two very different beasts. As I grieved and accepted the loss, I felt better. It was so cool.

When I respond to a medication, I don't feel so much an end of depression as I do an awakening and emergence from blackness into a new and wonderful world of color.

That's just me, though.

For some people, drugs do much more than simply act as bandaids to treat outward symptoms. They hit targets closer to the underlying neurological abnormality that yields a comprehensive improvement in brain function.


- Scott

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco rainbowlight

Posted by francesco on March 31, 2004, at 10:04:52

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by rainbowlight on March 31, 2004, at 3:51:06

Thanks for answering Rainbowlight. I'm taking Zoloft too. Did you experience any sexual side effect from it ? It just my sixth day on it but it seems like all my libido is gone !!! I'm not experiencing any other side effects though, and I like it all considered ... but you know, what's the point in being undepressed if you don't want to have sex ? : )
What about Lamictal side-effects ? I should take a mood stabilzer and Lamictal is what my p-doc is suggesting ... any flattening or cognition problems ? Thanks a lot

 

????? SLS

Posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 11:18:55

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 8:56:47

Again, ?????

I highly doubt that you even read my post. It appears that you saw one line, then jumped to a wrong conclusion and stopped reading. You are trying to argue with me about something I NEVER WROTE, or for that matter even implied, or even believe. So how can I respond to that?

>> But I am starting to strongly believe that we need to address the underlying cause of our problems, not just put a "band-aid" on the symptoms.

> I think this is much too broad a generalization to represent depressive illness.

What generalization??? I was writing to another poster about our specific situations.

> "We" certainly does not include me.

Then you are very, very fortunate.

> My problem has shown itself to be %100 biological. No amount of psychotherapy in the world would makes a dent in my condition. I've tried. My brief periods of wellness produced by medication have been more than simply not feeling "bummed-out". In fact, even at my worst, I usually don't experience dysphoria. I am vegetative and cognitively demented.

Just for the record, my condition is also 100% biological. My psychiatrist ruled out the benefit of psychotherapy immediately in my case, and I have never had counseling. If you had read the rest of my post, you would have known that I am still on psychiatric drugs, and I may be for a while yet. But psychiatric drugs are not a "cure" for the subnormal amount of certain chemicals in my brain. They only aid my brain to more effectively utilize the chemicals that exist. Ultimately, I am hoping to improve my brain chemistry so that I no longer need drugs.

> It seems that each individual will fit uniquely somewhere within the spectrum of mood illness, with relative contributions ranging from 100% biological to 100% psychological.

Again, I never mentioned the psychological cause of mood disorders. I have no experience with it. But for those who do, I hear counseling is of great benefit.

> I wish my illness were 100% psychological. I wouldn't mind doing the work necessary to bring myself into remission. At least I would have some control as to how I feel. I know - the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I don't want the chemical imbalance, but I am not willing to trade it for something else I deem easier to deal with. I have to agree it is a case of the grass being greener...

> Well, I've been on the other side of the fence. I once experienced a remission for 9 months brought about by a treatment using a combination of antidepressants. Of course, it was wonderful. Cosmic. Ah, but I did get "bummed-out" from time to time during this period. However, this was a totally different experience. I got depressed over the loss of an intimate relationship. But the depression that resulted was transient and felt completely different than how I experience bipolar disorder. They were two very different beasts. As I grieved and accepted the loss, I felt better. It was so cool.

I a glad you were fortunate to have that "cosmic" experience. But my physical battle has been so severe that I haven't been blessed with any sort of remission. I am also glad you are able to sort out your chemical depression from your emotional depression. That is probably helpful to you in some way.

> When I respond to a medication, I don't feel so much an end of depression as I do an awakening and emergence from blackness into a new and wonderful world of color.

Me too, but I would much rather be cured and live in the wonderful world of color without need of medication.

> For some people, drugs do much more than simply act as bandaids to treat outward symptoms. They hit targets closer to the underlying neurological abnormality that yields a comprehensive improvement in brain function.

Who said "outward" symptoms? Not me. Again, my message to the previous poster was in reference finding and correcting the biological cause of our neurological abnormalities. The psychiatric drugs I am on are certainly not a "cure" for me, so therefore they are just a "band-aid" until I can hopefully determine and fix the underlying causes of my condition.

May we all find the answers we are praying for.

 

Re: ????? simus

Posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 18:12:24

In reply to ????? SLS, posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 11:18:55

Hi Simus.

I may have misunderstood your post. I'll reread it more thoroughly when I have more mental energy. I apologize.


- Scott

 

Re: ????? SLS

Posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 19:44:49

In reply to Re: ????? simus, posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 18:12:24

> I may have misunderstood your post. I'll reread it more thoroughly when I have more mental energy. I apologize.
>
I also apologize. Our emotions get a little raw after a while of having to live with mental illness, a potentially debilitating condition, and also having to deal with everybody and their brother who has the "easy answer" for you. "Just think happy thoughts"... It is even tougher sometimes as a Christian, hee hee, because there are times I would just like to say, "Lord, couldn't you just turn around for a minute while I deal with this "saint".

I wish you the best.

Simus

 

Re: ?????

Posted by snapper on March 31, 2004, at 20:14:38

In reply to Re: ????? SLS, posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 19:44:49

Simus, I just read your post of apology to Scott and I that that was very kind and also to scott too. It does get a little sickening having to keep up with excuses for our behaviour or perhaps what appear to others as just complaining and malingering!! Mental Illness is a B**ch. When I am particular depressed and full of hopeless dispair, I just feel like telling the world to PI** Off. They don't have a clue! Christian or not- some genuinely seem to try and understand and that makes me feel good (I do profess to be a Christian but sometimes I feel like I have gotten such a raw deal, for having to endure this living nightmare)Many times I feel like telling God to take it and shove it!! -how could a God of Love possibly allow this type of suffering. Not to get off on a religious rant but just wanted to comment on the civility of the both of you and wish you both some "peace" of mind !!
take care
Snapper

 

Re: ?????

Posted by Dr. Bob on April 1, 2004, at 6:25:17

In reply to Re: ????? SLS, posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 19:44:49

> > I may have misunderstood your post. I'll reread it more thoroughly when I have more mental energy. I apologize.
>
> I also apologize. Our emotions get a little raw after a while of having to live with mental illness, a potentially debilitating condition, and also having to deal with everybody and their brother who has the "easy answer" for you...

Thanks for trying to work out any misunderstandings,

Bob

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco

Posted by rainbowlight on April 1, 2004, at 13:41:32

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco rainbowlight, posted by francesco on March 31, 2004, at 10:04:52

Actually, I LOVE Lamictal. I have had virtually no side effects from it. That is a rarity for me, I usually get them all :) The only thing is that it is somewhat activating for me and I need a sleep med at night to get me to sleep. But I had sleep problems anyway so it works out fine. I think it is the best mood stabilizer of them all (and I have tried them all). It does keep my moods nice and stable. I add the Zoloft for help with my OCD and anxiety. It has a nice blunting effect for me and allows stuff to roll of my shoulders alot easier. Makes it much each easier to "cope" with lifes stressors. As far as the Zoloft and sex drive, it does affect it for me too. The lower the dose the better though. For me anyways.

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco

Posted by francesco on April 1, 2004, at 14:29:59

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by rainbowlight on April 1, 2004, at 13:41:32

> Actually, I LOVE Lamictal. I have had virtually no side effects from it. That is a rarity for me, I usually get them all :) The only thing is that it is somewhat activating for me and I need a sleep med at night to get me to sleep. But I had sleep problems anyway so it works out fine. I think it is the best mood stabilizer of them all (and I have tried them all). It does keep my moods nice and stable. I add the Zoloft for help with my OCD and anxiety. It has a nice blunting effect for me and allows stuff to roll of my shoulders alot easier. Makes it much each easier to "cope" with lifes stressors. As far as the Zoloft and sex drive, it does affect it for me too. The lower the dose the better though. For me anyways.

I will ask for Lamictal if I a mood stabilizer will be suggested. I don't know if I'm getting hpyo on Zoloft but I think so. Could you describe what kind of effect has Lamictal on you ? I'm not sure I'm bipolar but meds like SSRI tends to make me agitated and restless. But I don't experience mania or hypomania without meds, so, I'm in a situation in which I'm not sure if mood stabilizer are worth. Thanks for the inputs !

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco

Posted by rainbowlight on April 2, 2004, at 3:03:47

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by francesco on April 1, 2004, at 14:29:59

Many of the SSRI's make me agitated and restless too. I can't touch Prozac! Zoloft if one of the "activating" (instead of "sedating") SSRI's and can cause agitation/restlessness/mania. A mood stabilizer kind of puts a ceiling on how high your mood can go, and also how low it can go. Ideally, they put you right in the middle and leave your emotions intact. However my experience has been that alot of the mood stabilizers leave you feeling flat/blah/emotionless and like a zombie. I have found Lamictal to have the least of these side effects. In fact I don't get any of them at all with Lamictal. Have you been properly diagnosed? If you haven't you really should be, because the medication for Bipolar and Depression are very different.

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? lexman

Posted by trucker on April 2, 2004, at 22:41:39

In reply to Do antidepressants really work?, posted by lexman on March 29, 2004, at 20:23:39

THEY WORK... YOU HAVE TO GIVE SOME OF THEM TIME TO BUILD UP IN YOUR SYSTEM BUT THEY DO WORK. DEPRESSION IS A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE.

TRUCKER

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

> Do antidepressants really work or are dr. and drug companies just taking our money?Thats what i hear from my brother that its all in your head and that drs just want your money.I am obcessed with taking ads.I have been on and off them for 8 years.What do i do?
>
> Lexman

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco rainbowlight

Posted by katia on April 4, 2004, at 0:06:29

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by rainbowlight on April 1, 2004, at 13:41:32

Hey Rainbow Light,
I just restarted Lam. and I LOVE it too. It's so euphoric feeling even at low doses. It's gives me my mojo back baby!

You mention OCD? What are your symptoms? I think I may have that as well. I'm super sensitive to sensory stimulation and become bizarrely outraged when it feels as tho' I"m being invaded by sensory overload, i.e. noises being the worst of all. I love sound, when in the right context, i.e. music, birds, etc. but DETEST that boom boom music (should be outlawed) and dogs barking and blah blah blah. It drives me INSANE!!!! Is this OCD? I also have real problems w/ snoring or w/ people shaking their legs. It drives me crazy and has done since I was 11 - I'm 33 now. I feel crazy like a complete maniac in class when someone is moving their legs, I am almost driven to kill them.
anyway. what are your symptoms? Are you BP? I am BPII
thanks!
Katia

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco

Posted by snapper on April 4, 2004, at 1:11:10

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco rainbowlight, posted by katia on April 4, 2004, at 0:06:29

Hey Katia, are you kidding? The noise thing is not a figment of your immagination-- I have OCD. Too much noise drives me at times into super maniacal RAAAAAGE! It sucks- little things like a horn honking, a dog barking, -sadly even the sound of my dad chewing his food at the table, makes me want to jump out of my skin!! Sound sensitivity and hyperacusis is not limited to ocd it also exists in many forms of mental Illnesse's
The Good news is this- -at least for me-when my depression clears up- MY oversensitivity to noises
tends to diminish. All I know is that I HAVE TO HAVE my fan going and an air purifier going to drown out any extra noise when I try going to sleep!! The thing about loud booming stereos's is really funny cuz I used to have an incredible amount of wattage and volume in my car stereos's- in fact it was one of my major hobbies- But now when i am in the car I barely want to even have the radio on!!!
So, no you ain't the only one!! I like my sound when I like my sound!!!
snapper

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco snapper

Posted by katia on April 4, 2004, at 4:15:22

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by snapper on April 4, 2004, at 1:11:10

really funny snapper...my air purifier is going as I read your post. I'm almost in bed....
LOL. And my poor poor daddy. I remember one morning yearssss ago - probably 14 years ago when I was 19/20, I woke up and shuffled to coffee and yelled at him "do you have to make soooo much noise eating your cereal????". He just turned and looked at me and said "god, katia, you are sooo hard to live with". That shut me up for good. I haven't forgotten it. I cringe when I think about what I said to my poor father.

Is this OCD? I'm dxed as BP.
Katia

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work?

Posted by Althea8869 on April 4, 2004, at 10:39:34

In reply to Do antidepressants really work?, posted by lexman on March 29, 2004, at 20:23:39

Ive seen this question many times and I think most have answered it pretty accurately, but I thought, 'its sunday morning and i'll throw my two, maybe three cents in'.

Two things we know for sure, 1) Depression is an illness(disease) and is characterized by particular neurological and physical symptoms which can be measured using a number of different methods, one of the most scientific is Proton Emmission Tomography (PET). Brain scans of depressed people (both endogenous and exogenous) show a clear differentiation from those not suffering. 2) We also know that certain medications over a period of several weeks will have a marked affect on the results of those brain scans - returning them to a more 'normal' state, if you will.

While this is good news, it must be pointed out that 1) The placebo effect must not be underestimated - the very act of thinking that a medication is going to work for you can often cause improvement - and not just in the short term as others have suggested. I have told the story before of patients in a trial of a cancer drug losing all their hair, despite, as it turned out, being given the placebo. They truly believed they would lose their hair and so they did. It didnt matter that they were taking sugar pills. 2) There is now an abundance of clinical evidence to show that psychotherapy alone results in precisely the same changes to PET scans that medication shows. (Not all medications, but many) Moreover, psychotherapy alone has been linked to longer term remission rates - no 'poop out'. This is why we are always advised that the best solution is both medication and psychotherapy in combination. 3) Its important to remember that the people that are most often used in the clinical trials that determine efficacy have an exogenous form of depression, typically short term. In other words they select the people MOST likely to respond to the medication - which across most medications shows ~35-50% some improvement and 25-35% significant improvement - and these results are for their 'taylor made' group. Said differently, these are not real world results. Typically you should divide those numbers in half for 'real world' application - and those numbers divided in half, surprise, surprise, are roughly the equivalent of the 'placebo' response group in most trials.

While it may seem that the picture is fairly bleak for medications, in reality its not that bad, actually its pretty good. The reason being that 1) There are so many different meds out there now (all of which have different chemical structures and most of which work by different mechanisms), and so many different forms of depression, that the probability of an individual responding to one of them is actually quite high - on the order of about 70%+. Its just a question of finding the correct match. This is why we constantly tell each other to go back to the doc and ask for something different. In fact there is a great deal of work being done now to better understand who will respond to what. This should improve initial response rates in the very near future. 2) We also know that combinations of meds can be complementary - something unthinkable just ten years ago. 3) The US government is starting to take this disease far more seriously than it ever did in the past - that translates into research dollars 4) Most importantly, thanks to advances in medical technology, our understanding of the human brain and its many functions, neurochemicals, interactions etc, has increased a thousand fold in just the last few years. The NE/SE/DO model of depression is now just one of many. There are leading edge psychopharmacologists that believe the next wave of medications will use a completely different model and target a completely different set of neurotransmitters - most of these meds dont have names right now, but they are being developed as we speak. 5) Finally, and best of all, there are sites like this one that allow sufferers to learn more about medications and the particulars of their conditions, similarities etc, as well as to form friendships and inspire in each of us a sense of helping others - which always makes me feel a little better. One truth is that an educated patient has a far greater chance for success than an uneducated one. This is true regardless of the condition. Kudoz to Dr Bob - i think he underestimates the true potential of a board like this. Bob if you ever need any financial assistance to keep this going, dont ever hesitate to ask.

I guess what this all distills down to is that, 'yes' antidepressants do work, but until we know more about neurochemistry and can better diagnose different kinds of depressive states, it will continue to be a trial and error process. For some a positive response may come quickly, for others, like me, it may take many years to find the right med or combination that works. Just dont give up, and always convey your experiences to others in formats like this. And dont ever forget about excersize/nutrition. In concert with the right meds, it can increase the level of improvement dramatically.

Anyway, take care and enjoy your sunday. I know that writing this has already put me in a good mood.

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work?

Posted by snapper on April 4, 2004, at 13:18:10

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by Althea8869 on April 4, 2004, at 10:39:34

Althea, very well said!

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco

Posted by snapper on April 4, 2004, at 13:29:52

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco snapper, posted by katia on April 4, 2004, at 4:15:22

Hi Katia, if you are diagnosed as BP then there is a very good chance that you may have a 'co-morbid' disorder along with the primary disorder as well. For example- Many people who have BP II , like my self- tend to have a cluster of BP II -Social Anxiety and many times OCD as well - what a nasty trio of things going on in our heads... You may or may not have OCD- and if you want to know for sure then just do a search on the net for OCD and look past the normal symptoms of repeatingly wanting to wash your hands or checking the door a thousand times or making sure the stove is off a bunch of times etc. OCD in my experience, manifests itself in MANY different ways in different people- also the mere diagnosis of BP disorder can mimic the symptoms of OCD. Hope that helps clarify things. All I know is that OCD sufferers do tend to be overwhelmed with intense overload of sensory stimuli, etc. But so do ADD and ADHD people, it is hard to figure out. But to me there is just so much overlap in all these disorders!!
Snapper

 

Re: Do antidepressants really work? Althea8869

Posted by SLS on April 4, 2004, at 13:33:38

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by Althea8869 on April 4, 2004, at 10:39:34

> .. it must be pointed out that 1) The placebo effect must not be underestimated - the very act of thinking that a medication is going to work for you can often cause improvement

Whenever I hear this, I wonder how precisely the participants in the study are screened for an unequivocal biological depression. For instance, would the rate of placebo response be the same between DST suppressors and non-suppressors? What about the more severe cases that display psychomotor retardation? I would love to see a study testing for the placebo effect among exclusively DST non-suppressors.

BTW, you did a marvelous job with your post.


- Scott

 

OCD or BP? snapper

Posted by katia on April 4, 2004, at 16:09:43

In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by snapper on April 4, 2004, at 13:29:52

> Hi Katia, if you are diagnosed as BP then there is a very good chance that you may have a 'co-morbid' disorder along with the primary disorder as well. For example- Many people who have BP II , like my self- tend to have a cluster of BP II -Social Anxiety and many times OCD as well - what a nasty trio of things going on in our heads... You may or may not have OCD- and if you want to know for sure then just do a search on the net for OCD and look past the normal symptoms of repeatingly wanting to wash your hands or checking the door a thousand times or making sure the stove is off a bunch of times etc. OCD in my experience, manifests itself in MANY different ways in different people- also the mere diagnosis of BP disorder can mimic the symptoms of OCD. Hope that helps clarify things. All I know is that OCD sufferers do tend to be overwhelmed with intense overload of sensory stimuli, etc. But so do ADD and ADHD people, it is hard to figure out. But to me there is just so much overlap in all these disorders!!
> Snapper

Hi Snapper,
Does OCD ever go away on it's own or change faces?
When I was little, I HAD to have my room in tip top shape, even w/ my little purse hanging just right on the door handle before I went to sleep. My mother would have to shut the door just right or I'd go bazeerk if the purse moved off center. I don't have that anymore though. Wierd, back then, no one questioned that behavior (70's). At least not my parents. Something was making me out act like that, whether it had to do w/ my environment or in my head.

I also had very intense phobias, like fear of losing a leg, losing my hair, getting cancer, spiders, etc. All about when I was 10/11. Then as a teenager, I went wild. My room was a disaster and I no longer needed order. In fact chaos ruled and then came panic attacks and depression. So who knows. You're right. They all look the same (these disorders) and it could very well be BP symptoms.
thanks for you input.
Katia

 

Re: OCD or BP?

Posted by snapper on April 4, 2004, at 16:51:00

In reply to OCD or BP? snapper, posted by katia on April 4, 2004, at 16:09:43

> > Hi Katia, if you are diagnosed as BP then there is a very good chance that you may have a 'co-morbid' disorder along with the primary disorder as well. For example- Many people who have BP II , like my self- tend to have a cluster of BP II -Social Anxiety and many times OCD as well - what a nasty trio of things going on in our heads... You may or may not have OCD- and if you want to know for sure then just do a search on the net for OCD and look past the normal symptoms of repeatingly wanting to wash your hands or checking the door a thousand times or making sure the stove is off a bunch of times etc. OCD in my experience, manifests itself in MANY different ways in different people- also the mere diagnosis of BP disorder can mimic the symptoms of OCD. Hope that helps clarify things. All I know is that OCD sufferers do tend to be overwhelmed with intense overload of sensory stimuli, etc. But so do ADD and ADHD people, it is hard to figure out. But to me there is just so much overlap in all these disorders!!
> > Snapper
>
> Hi Snapper,
> Does OCD ever go away on it's own or change faces?
> When I was little, I HAD to have my room in tip top shape, even w/ my little purse hanging just right on the door handle before I went to sleep. My mother would have to shut the door just right or I'd go bazeerk if the purse moved off center. I don't have that anymore though. Wierd, back then, no one questioned that behavior (70's). At least not my parents. Something was making me out act like that, whether it had to do w/ my environment or in my head.
>
> I also had very intense phobias, like fear of losing a leg, losing my hair, getting cancer, spiders, etc. All about when I was 10/11. Then as a teenager, I went wild. My room was a disaster and I no longer needed order. In fact chaos ruled and then came panic attacks and depression. So who knows. You're right. They all look the same (these disorders) and it could very well be BP symptoms.
> thanks for you input.
> Katia
>

Hi Katia, yes OCD can change the way it presents it self over time-- It seems that when I was young, and OCD first presented itself I was also afraid of 'things'! Afraid of household cleaners (chemicals) potential poisons etc. As I grew older I new that their were some thing about me that were quirky- But the OCD just kinda laid in the background and then teen years and early adulthood I figured out that masking a lot of my phobias and fears etc-came in the form of alcohol!I exp my 1st major dep. episode when I was 23-and then my OCD flaied up and had some specific phobias etc. When I came out of that episode and I started my own Business and was blessed with extrordinary success-but I had to 'always be in control' perfectionism set in and I found it hard to deligate responsibility to others-who were ,most likely capable of taking care of the day to day biz affairs-when I would go on vacations to get away from my "self emposed" standards of orderliness and perfectionism-- I would find it was very hard to relax and found Myself calling back to my office to see if everything was going ok or just right!!! Not to bore you but the mere fact that I felt I had to be in control of things to be done in precise order, was part of my eventual demise and downfall
ongoing tension, stress, anxiety and of course depression. I also helped myself self- destruct - by continuing to medicate-with alcohol and then of course another OCD spectrum disorder> Pathological gambling!! When I was semi-manic or feeling just right!! I felt invincible at blackjack and found my self to be hyper-perceptive in playing the game-I could most always
"Win and make huge gains! However , cuz of the repetetiveness of the OCD I never felt that 'It' was enough- so even if I could turn $50 into $500 or a few hundred into several thousand, IT WAS NEVER ENOUGH !! IT was not just greed it was the fact that I just wanted to play "ONE MORE HAND" and ultimately in the end the 'tables turned ' and the house won . Then instead of me playing with the Casinos' money and being satisfied with my winnings, I would end up losing tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars over a 5-6 year period!! The river boat casinos' here in my town -were ultimately ONE of the very biggest facors in my emotional collapse. Between the addiction of alcohol and the destuctive behaviour of needing to go back to the Casinos'- tore me down-I lost everything- banned my self from the casinos' (a state law that allows permanent banning from all the casinos's in Missouri- if I walk on to one and they ask me for ID- the system is immediately flagged that I am on the Black List and security will immediately come and arrest me for "Tresspassing" - I HAD to do this becasue I was either going to kill myself through the addictive behaviour or by the rediculous and sometimes fraudulent ways of obtaining more $$$$ to continue to Gamble- I AM DAMN LUCKY I AM NOT IN JAIL AND I HAVE VERY LOVING AND UNDERSTANDING PARENTS/FAMILY!So in regards to OCD manifesting itself in many different ways; yes It certainly does!!! Not everyone w/OCD has these probems-obviously but I am sure that there are literally millions of people out there who are having extreme and painful problems in life with respect to the self defating and VERY destrucive behaviours. I'm sorry If I've gotten off track here- I tend to do that- that in itself -at least in myself is a clear indication of OCD--- The need to feel that all details are NOT left out and the story needs to be explaind just right! It is very hard but am trying to re-build my life one step at a time !! Hope you don't suffer to the extent that I have described but hopefully may give you some insight into things that might be able to help yourself or potentially others out there - I firmly believe that If you "know whats wrong" you can work more effectively at correcting and fixing the things that are wrong!!! Your original ?, yes sometimes OCD and its ugly symptoms do lessen to a great degree or go away altogether for some!!
snapper


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