Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 128540

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Fee on November 20, 2002, at 20:10:28

I have been taking Sertraline (zoloft) for over ten years and have had two major episodes of depresson in the last year - am still in one. Why has this happened??? Has the drug 'pooped out' ? My doctor increased the dose from 100mg daily to 200mg daily. This did nothing at all. He then supplemented this with Mirtazapine, starting off on low doses and increasing until finally i started to feel some small improvement. I am now on 90mg daily of mirtazapine which is apparently a very high dose - as well as the sertraline, and I am only feeling a slight improvement. Most days are hell on earth. Will I ever get better? When a drug stops working in your system, does that mean that nothing will cure me? Or would a different anti depressant help? Should I be asking my GP to switch my meds to something new? Has anyone ever experienced this? Please tell me that it's not the end of the road for me- I couldn't go on living if I thought it was always going to be like this.
Love and light
Fee

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out » Fee

Posted by jay on November 20, 2002, at 21:42:26

In reply to SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Fee on November 20, 2002, at 20:10:28

No, I don't think it is the end of the road, and since you have already tried adding another med, you may want to ask about switching.

There is no absolute correct answer, of course, but there are many other meds for you to try if needed. You may want to start off by trying a different SRI, and since you responded to Zoloft, Prozac may be a good second choice. I had a hard time tolerating Zoloft to begin with, and couldn't handle Prozac, but they where the only two SRI's that gave me relief from depression. I am now on Effexor XR, and it has taken a long time to adjust

You may also want to keep the tricyclics in mind, as they seem to have a good long-term record in those who they work for.

If you feel *any* type of anxiety, a benzodiazepine like Xanax or Klonopin may be a good choice to add to your antidepressant.

Anyhow, hang in there, as it is certainly *not* the end for you. Better days..

Best,
Jay


to and find a working dose.

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out » Fee

Posted by LyndaK on November 21, 2002, at 2:32:33

In reply to SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Fee on November 20, 2002, at 20:10:28

You might want to have your Thyroid levels checked just to make sure they're within a normal range. Low levels can affect how you metabolize your meds. 100 mgs. is actually a fairly low dose for Zoloft, but "poop-out" does happen. I've certainly experienced it.

There is a LONG list of drugs to try.
Don't give up hope.
Lynda

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Bill L on November 21, 2002, at 7:56:59

In reply to SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Fee on November 20, 2002, at 20:10:28

Fee- I have no doubt that you will feel better with a medication adjustment. If the addition of Mertazapine doesn't help enough, maybe you should try a different SSRI. I have experience with Prozac, Zoloft, and Lexapro. Lexapro, my current med, has been the most effective for me. I am hving much success with it.

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Fee on November 21, 2002, at 19:41:37

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Bill L on November 21, 2002, at 7:56:59

> Fee- I have no doubt that you will feel better with a medication adjustment. If the addition of Mertazapine doesn't help enough, maybe you should try a different SSRI. I have experience with Prozac, Zoloft, and Lexapro. Lexapro, my current med, has been the most effective for me. I am hving much success with it.
>

Thank you all for your encouragement - how nice to know there is support out there. Our crumbling National Health Service here in UK is so awful, I can't get to see a psychiatrist for another two and a half months.I feel very much abandoned by this dreadful system. Anyway, Jay, I have tried Prozac some years ago ad hated it -it gave me wild mood swings. Linda, thanks for the thought about thyroid - I have had a 'regular' thyroid check and it seems normal, but i have heard that these can be inaccurate.
Bill, can you tell me the generic name for Lexapro? - most drugs go by a different brand name over here and I've never heard of that, although my GP is thinking that Effexor might work as an alternative to Zoloft. Anyway, thank again, all of you. Any further suggestions gratefully received from this rather despairing woman!!!

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Denise528 on November 23, 2002, at 3:08:20

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Fee on November 21, 2002, at 19:41:37

Hi Fee,

I'm from the UK so I know completely what you mean about the NHS.

I've had the same experience as you re poop out, only with me they didn't work the third time round which was frustrating considering I only came off them in the first place so that I wouldn't become tolerant to them. Anyway I started getting depressed again over year ago and I'm not too bad now with the help every now and again of Zyprexa, so don't give up.

I believe that if Zooloft no longer works for you then none of the SSRIs will either as I think they are all pretty much the same but with different side effects. All of the SSRIs used to work for me no matter which one I took, now none of them do but you may be different.

If I were you I wouldn't even bother with the SSRIs, try some of the others which have different modes of action. Effexor sounds like a good idea as it's not an SSRI.

If you want to try and speed up an appointment with your psychiatrist tell your gp that you are desparate and suicidal and you need to see the psychiatrist asap. I got to see one in a couple of weeks.

Denise

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Fee on November 23, 2002, at 18:14:54

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Denise528 on November 23, 2002, at 3:08:20

Thanks, Denise, for your words of support. I am starting a new course of treatment on Monday and am not looking forward to coming off Lustral (Zoloft)- even though its not particularly effective now. Did you (or any of you) have a rough time coming off ssris? Even though I will be switching to Effexor, I am still anticipating a rough change-over time. How did you cope with withdrawal?
Love and light to everyone out there who's on a difficult journey.
Fee

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by cubbybear on November 24, 2002, at 5:19:03

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Fee on November 23, 2002, at 18:14:54

Hi Fee,
I think I'll jump into this exchange, since we do share some things in common. I myself experienced poopout with Remeron, (which is not really an SSRI but still falls under the umbrella of all these new ADs). When the Remeron pooped out, I went to Zoloft but for a variety of reasons, I was not very happy with it and decided to quit taking it. With my doctor's tapering off schedule that spanned about 5 weeks from 150 mg. to none, I managed pretty well. I did have a mild withdrawal for about 3 days--it was predominantly lots of fatigue but has passed.

So you are going onto Effexor. I just want you to be aware that Effexor and all the SSRIs are NOT the last word in the world of anti-depressants. In case the Effexor doesn't work for you, you should consider the MAOIs (monoamine oxydase inhibitors), which I have had great success with (Parnate). Their use has been eclipsed by the SSRIs thanks to the power of the drug companies, physicians' biases, and other B.S., and unfortunately they have a very small share of the AD market. Yet, the MAOIs definitely work wonders for some people. Tthere's a lot out there to choose from, and MAOI antidepressants might be helpful for you or anyone else who has had a rough time with the SSRIs.

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Brainfart on November 24, 2002, at 12:24:02

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by cubbybear on November 24, 2002, at 5:19:03

> Hi Fee,

like you, I have been on an SSRI -mostly Zoloft- for 11 years. Usually after 1 year or so I experience poop-out and switch to a drug within the same class. Right now I am on Effexor XR. I have been experimenting with my dosages and found that if a dosage increase didn't alleviate my depression often a decrease did. It is my theory (and it is only a theory!!!) that over time our livers don't metabolize the drug as effectively as they did when we first started taking them. I call it liver-clutter. So you decrease the dosage and give your liver a break. Try it, but talk to your doc if you feel worse. This strategy worked for me, but it may not work for everyone else.
Over the years I have become unable to metabolize Zoloft at all without exhibiting effects of toxicity at the smallest dosage. I have fibromyalgia as well and this could be what is causing my sensitivity. Or I am developing multiple chemical sensitivities over time, including one to Zoloft - I do not really know what is going on. Time will tell!
Right now - after my switch to Effexor XR (37.5mg) I feel great. I also exercise half an hour every day, which is a MUST for anyone with depression and I make sure I sleep well. You might want to look into trying Milkthistle, as this herb supports the liver in detoxifying the meds. You see, as your liver becomes more effective in breaking down the medication, you require less of it to be effective, which is exactly what I have found. Pretty much all of the SSRI's are metabolized through similar liver enzyme pathways.
Again, please note that this is my personal experience and theory! I could be totally off the wall too! Let me know what you think!

Good luck to you,

Brainfart

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Fee on November 24, 2002, at 19:30:34

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Brainfart on November 24, 2002, at 12:24:02

Hi Brainfart (delightful name....!)
Isn't it amazing how everyone's experiences of the same drug can vary so widely? Thanks for the tip about Milkthistle. How do you figure out the dosage? You may be right about my liver - I am on high doses of both Remeron and Zoloft and still feeling dreadful - so something is going badly wrong somewhere. Tomorrow I come off the Zoloft and start Effexor, so here's hoping that the cross over period won't be too rough!
Kindest thoughts,
Fee

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by Fee on November 24, 2002, at 19:34:58

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by cubbybear on November 24, 2002, at 5:19:03

Hi Cubbybear
Thanks for that advice - I have always been afraid of drugs like MAos as they have a reputation for being dangerous or 'dirty' drugs with loads of side effects. I suppose I always hope that the newer the drug, the more refined it is. What is the action of an MAo ? And don't you find it restricting in your diet? Would love to hear more. Kindest thoughts,
Fee

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out - Fee Brainfart

Posted by BekkaH on November 24, 2002, at 19:41:32

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Fee on November 24, 2002, at 19:30:34

> Hi Brainfart (delightful name....!)

Yes, in a way it is delightful. It just goes to show you that even in the depths of depression, some of us do not lose our sense of humor.

 

Long-term effects of SSRI's/ toxicity/ ANS dysf.

Posted by Brainfart on November 24, 2002, at 23:57:51

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out - Fee Brainfart, posted by BekkaH on November 24, 2002, at 19:41:32

> > Hi Brainfart (delightful name....!)
>
> Yes, in a way it is delightful. It just goes to show you that even in the depths of depression, some of us do not lose our sense of humor.
>
>If I didn't have my sense of humor I don't know where I'd be! I just keep on going and treat myself as a human lab. It is great to have an opportunity to know more than your doctor! Gives me a sense of satisfaction!

Fee- re: milkthistle dosage...i have no idea...whatever is available to you just try it...I haven't experienced any side-effects from it. Give it a shot. Also...the changeover from Zoloft to Effexor shouldn't be bad! I went through the same thing and I felt better immediately. The two drugs are still working on your serotonin, so you won't get the withdrawal. Stay cool...you'll be allright. Just go slow on the dosage. If you increase too fast you'll get more side-effects.

I'm pulling for you!

Brainfart

 

Re: Long-term effects of SSRI's/ toxicity/ ANS dysf.

Posted by Fee on November 25, 2002, at 19:16:20

In reply to Long-term effects of SSRI's/ toxicity/ ANS dysf., posted by Brainfart on November 24, 2002, at 23:57:51

Aaarghhh...
First my GP tells me he's changing me to Effexor, now he's decided against it and is putting me on cypralex and nefazadone...Christ...Now I have to go through all the search pages again!
Anyone have experiences of either of these? (Sorry all, blame my fickle doctor...!)
Fee

 

Re: SSRI Poop-Out

Posted by cubbybear on November 26, 2002, at 6:56:21

In reply to Re: SSRI Poop-Out, posted by Fee on November 24, 2002, at 19:34:58

Hello Fee,

You asked about the action of MAO drugs and restrictions on diet. I had many years of great experience with Parnate. Many people get scared off taking this drug (or Nardil) because there are some diet restrictions. However a lot of the fears have been exaggerated over the years; and new, more liberal guidelines have been written. If you are willing to sacrifice a little in your menu, and the drug works for you, it's definitely worth it, in my opinion.

Side effects--as with all drugs, there are side effects, With Parnate, I experienced dry mouth (which fades after a while), occasional low blood pressure, reduced need for sleep, which meant that I could actually feel rested with only about 4-5 hrs. sleep each night, (great if you are a night owl) plus an increase in craving for carbohydrates and/or sweets. I experienced a modest weight gain, but didn't mind because I'm slim to begin with. Remember--every person's side effects and reactions to every drug are different!

As far as the mode of action is concerned, I don't know how technically-minded you are and how much you know about serotonin and the other neurotransmitters, but basically, the MAOs get more serotonin into your system (to alleviate depression) by working in a completely different way than the SSRI antidepressants do. It's rather complex to explain. If you want to get the professionally known facts and description of the mode of action, then check out websites under MAOI anti-depressants, or similar search words and eventually you should find a description of the mode of action.

 

Why pills?

Posted by lisaXX on February 28, 2004, at 14:47:21

In reply to Re: Long-term effects of SSRI's/ toxicity/ ANS dysf., posted by Fee on November 25, 2002, at 19:16:20

Hey everyone
I was depressed for a long time but refused to take drugs, I was in denial that I had anything to be sad about. I often could not fall asleep all night or woke up after 4 hrs when I did, I was tired all the time and couldnt concentrate. One day someone told me about Transcendental Meditation as a cure for sleeplessness, so I did the research on the web and found a TM Centre in my city. After much thought I decided to pay the fee of 2000 dollars to learn how to do it, and since then I've become happy, stress-free, my sleep is amazing and I can concentrate. If you dont want to be dependent on drugs, I guarantee that Transcendental Meditation will be your cure. But I could be wrong ofcourse, everyone is different. Just thought I'd share x

 

Re: Why pills?

Posted by Brainfart on February 29, 2004, at 13:02:06

In reply to Why pills?, posted by lisaXX on February 28, 2004, at 14:47:21

> Hey everyone
> I was depressed for a long time but refused to take drugs, I was in denial that I had anything to be sad about. I often could not fall asleep all night or woke up after 4 hrs when I did, I was tired all the time and couldnt concentrate. One day someone told me about Transcendental Meditation as a cure for sleeplessness, so I did the research on the web and found a TM Centre in my city. After much thought I decided to pay the fee of 2000 dollars to learn how to do it, and since then I've become happy, stress-free, my sleep is amazing and I can concentrate. If you dont want to be dependent on drugs, I guarantee that Transcendental Meditation will be your cure. But I could be wrong ofcourse, everyone is different. Just thought I'd share x

Hey lisaXX,

I agree with your statement up to a point! I myself have researched transcendental medictation and would like to draw attention to some facts that others may not be aware of and who may spend insane amounts of money to funnel into the Maharishi's cult.
Before you rush out and fork over the dough to get brainwashed into thinking that you may be able to levitate, do yourself a favor and run a google search about criticisms of TM. That's what opened my eyes!
There is NOTHING wrong with meditation,as a matter of fact it is probably the best thing anyone can do. However, for people who already have imbalanced neurotransmitters, TM practise for many hours can become outright dangerous.
There are many places where one can learn how to meditate. I just wondered why there isn't international recognition about the phenomenon of TM if it works so well. That's because the Maharishi gets mighty wealthy off his practitioners and has no interest in giving away a good thing. Plus, studies on TM are only done by TM people and not independent researchers. They even have their own university!
I am sorry, but I looked into this and decided to run with all my money in my wallet!
I am happy it works for you, but I wanted people to know about the other side of the coin. You see, I have never been in denial about my depression and am quite aware of what my options are...and I mean all my options, not just pharmaceutical ones!
I do not agree with organized religion, which is what the whole TM organization is! So beware! Anything that promises you bliss for a whole lot of money is out to lunch! Once they got you in their fangs you can't back out, because you paid all this money and you want to make it work!
A mantra for $2000!!! Please!!!! I might as well sell hot air!!!!


Brainfart

 

Re: Why pills? » Brainfart

Posted by cubbybear on March 1, 2004, at 2:23:01

In reply to Re: Why pills?, posted by Brainfart on February 29, 2004, at 13:02:06

I'm in no position to speak about fraudulent organizations in the U.S.,but I can tell you that here in (Buddhist) Thailand, meditation is a way of life and provided you're not suffering from depression or another mental state which would make concentration difficult, anyone can learn how to practice meditation AT NO CHARGE. If you have access to a New AgeBookstore, try to pick up a book on the subject of meditation (preferably written by a Buddhist monk) and read all about it first. Then, if you're still interested, try to get to a Buddhist temple, where you can maybe speak to a monk or attend sessions on meditation. In Los Angeles, for example, there is a Buddhist meeting center on New Hampshire Avenue. You will NOT have to spend one dime to attend and contributions are voluntary. I must admit that I myself have not been able to expend the time and effort necessary to learn meditation, yet my parents and friends strongly attest to its calming benefits.

 

Re: Why pills? » Brainfart

Posted by Brainfart on March 1, 2004, at 13:10:54

In reply to Re: Why pills? » Brainfart, posted by cubbybear on March 1, 2004, at 2:23:01

My point exactly! Here in Canada we have wonderful Buddhist organizations as well that are FREE!!
I did not want people to get the wrong idea that they had to pay $2000 to get relief from depression!
I am all for meditation as a safe treatment, as long as it isn't done under the guise of an organized cult.

 

Redirect: Transcendental Meditation

Posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 0:09:34

In reply to Why pills?, posted by lisaXX on February 28, 2004, at 14:47:21

> One day someone told me about Transcendental Meditation as a cure for sleeplessness, so I did the research on the web and found a TM Centre in my city...

I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding TM to Psycho-Babble Psychology. Here's a link:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040303/msgs/319980.html

Thanks,

Bob


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