![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jerrympls on February 17, 2004, at 21:36:30
I've been having so many troubles with stimulants. They've always helped. In the past month I've tried AdderalL, Dexedrine and Concerta - all of which I have tried before and all of which have worked great. However - not they just make me nervous.
So, what's the deal with Desoxyn - do I dare ask my pdoc for a trial on it? I've read some previous posts saying it's "safer," etc - plus I've never abused any substance before - including the above mentioned stimulants.
Anyone have any info? I'm in tthe US by the way.
Jerry
Posted by 1980Monroe on February 17, 2004, at 21:48:07
In reply to Desoxyn - do US pdocs still prescribe it?, posted by jerrympls on February 17, 2004, at 21:36:30
Methamphetamine rarely is ever prescribed mainly because its the substance that you can go and get at you friendly local drug dealer, and it is notorious for abuse. It's proven that methamphetamine is abused more than regular amphetamine, because it produces greater effects - such as greater euphoria. I really dont think desoxyn has ever been on a doc's goood side, becuase of its maximum abuse potential. Only in RARE cases will doc's use it, like if you've failed everything. If desoxyn is the only thing that works for you, take my advice and Be WISE, its tempting to tkae more that what your supposed to, even if you ADHD. Belive me, because i used to take it.
Posted by utopizen on February 17, 2004, at 22:22:10
In reply to Re: Desoxyn - do US pdocs still prescribe it?, posted by 1980Monroe on February 17, 2004, at 21:48:07
I disagree. I've got extremely bad ADHD. I literally experimented-- as in, recorded dose times-- once a year ago when I was 19 and got my first bottle filled. Took 20mg at once after 20 min. of baking soda mixed in water and on an empty stomach. Great euphoria. 1 hr later, I took 2mg Klonopin to come down. (I like to leave before I get told to).
Did it one other time, a couple weeks later, and that was it.
I don't advise doing this, it was just me being experimental and knowing I had no ambitions to be a trailer park drug user.
But in terms of addiction, no. Unless you find grinding your teeth down to nothing and have no embarrasment about this to your dental checkups, there's enough dysphoria surrounding the side effects to avoid anything about the standard 10mg 2x/day.
Addiction is typical in patients who use IV meth.
Don't ever do what I did. I could have messed my brain up a lot, especially if I didn't augment it with Klonopin, a proven neuroprotective, very shortly afterwards.
I take it for narcolepsy now. My sleepiness seems to have gotten worse and worse over the years.
Don't ask for it by name unless you're as clever as I am about asking for drugs. And that's not possible. Just pretend it doesn't exist, and never think about it. I'm sick of it; I haven't had Adderall for awhile, might switch to that in a month. I get 50mg/day, or 300 5mg/month that is. No one ever gets it unless their doc is a sleep psychiatrist and you've failed all other stimulants and you've had 20,000 sleep studies.
Posted by jerrympls on February 17, 2004, at 22:30:50
In reply to Re: Desoxyn - do US pdocs still prescribe it?, posted by utopizen on February 17, 2004, at 22:22:10
I don't even remember the last time I experienced euphoria. Maybe back when I was 17-18 - before the Darkness fell. I'm 32 tomorrow. What a horrible life.
Jerry
Posted by utopizen on February 18, 2004, at 18:44:20
In reply to Re: Desoxyn - do US pdocs still prescribe it?, posted by jerrympls on February 17, 2004, at 22:30:50
> I don't even remember the last time I experienced euphoria. Maybe back when I was 17-18 - before the Darkness fell. I'm 32 tomorrow. What a horrible life.
>
> JerryJerry,
I get 300 5mg tabs of Desoxyn for my narcolepsy (50mg/day, while the avg. daily dose is 20-25mg/day for ADD).
I don't get euphoria, and lately I've been getting social liability (I express extreme sadness spontaneously when I talk to people often). I believe it's a mix of the Desoxyn and my sleep debt/insomnia contantly occuring so often. Adderall, I remember on occassion, would cause some instances of social liability if I choose to practicpate in a discussion the day following an all-nighter I did for a paper.
But the high you experience, it's a stupid high. You feel very happy, but it gets old fast. I knew this in advance, and quit while I was ahead-- took 2mg of Klonopin and went to sleep an hour after the euphoria's onset. Protected my neurons, as Klonopin's a neuroprotective.
It's the same high I experienced after climbing a large mountain when I was 13 and in the Boy Scouts. I had climbed it, went to the lodge, and sat with my friends as we said nothing and stared at the wall like we were half-sedated from some anesthetic-like drug for a full two hours. We were both fatigued and euphoric at the same time. It was over, all of the hurdles, all of the "this is never going to end" moments, but that's what made it meaningful. We reflected for two hours over what we had done, in our heads. Not random happy recollections of some girl I had a crush on, but a realization that life is a controllable variable that I can manage now and then on my own and yet still feel happy. I can feel happy, and there's no dose to record, no interval times to log, and no side effects to treat.
When I experienced euphoria on the Desoxyn, it was a stupid grinny euphoria. It's not something I look back with and smile about, because there was no meaning behind it. I was happy at the time. Just that.
When I look back to how I felt so accomplished and proved to myself I could be determined enough to finish something (a rare feat for an ADD kid!) -- that makes me smile to this day, 7 years later.
Lots of drugs can cause euphoria. Dilantin can, even... I read a case of a prisoner who was prescribed it for convulsions and had to have his lawyer plea to get off it because he couldn't tolerate the effect.
If you're searching for happiness from a pill, it is always a feeble journey. Pills are measurable, quantifiable, sceintifically reduced entities. They can help you find yourself when you're having tough times like depression and forgot who you once were, and remind yourself that you weren't always feeling the way you feel today, and that you will not feel this way for the rest of your life, and that all relief is found the day you realize you are still the same person you were before you felt hopeless.
But they can only do this if you are willing to accept that the pills only can uncover what already is within you, waiting to come out. You were once happy. Your happiness, it's still there. It didn't die, hibernate, or anything like that. You are capable of feeling happy again, and you will within your lifetime. I hope a med can help you with this, but I also hope you explore things to combine with such a med, like exercise if you can and regular sleep and so forth. And reduced stress, if you can allow yourself to realize you're not Superman. All of these things, it's advice from a kid who's not following any of it. But I'm trying, slowly, to realize my meds will never be some magic bullet for me, ever.
In other words, pills don't induce feelings. Your existing being induces whatever feelings you and your environment influences. And part of your environment happens to include pills, vitamins from foods you eat, and so forth. So taking a pill, that is taking in a part of your environment. But no pill can nullify the woes of your environment if it is too burdensome to bear.
Only you can nullify your burden, alter your environment, and cope with the feelings you've let yourself over the years believe aren't possible to cope with. If coping means taking a pill, that may be what is best for you. But if it doesn't work out, you need to recgonize that pills alone aren't going to make you feel what you've felt when you were 17 or 18 again. You're in control of everything, not just doses, not just miligrams, but you.
You elect what environment you are in, no matter what society has let you believe you must take on in some lonely, fearful, dark place. You'd be amazed at how refreshing and clarifying it is to turn the light on in the basement, walk outside, and tell yourself you will hike a mountain one day. Or volunteer to walk shelter dogs. Or connect with others who share your passions. No drugs will ever do this. No drug. No drug deserves to let you feel the way you would feel if you could somehow connect with another person who lets you know he or she loves you, or remind you humans aren't the only ones who want you to love them, and that you're not alone...
when I worked in a shelter, I was just trying to come to terms with my life-long social anxiety. Connecting and helping animals that were afraid and lonely each day and giving them happiness let me know I could be with them in their loneliness, or in their friendship, and that was my choice, not my Celexa at 20mg b.i.d.
Meds might help it make it easier for you to start, and hope they will, but the only thing that ever comes easy is to do what is truest for you to do.
Pills are lonely. They are content with remaining in amber vials for you to take as you desire. But don't ever yourself believe you are reducable to a side effect profile, a dosage adjustment, a new drug trial, a drug interaction, or a dosage interval. These are to help your pills work, not you.
You are more important than imaginary euphoric episodes, dyphoric discontentment, or your life's entire behavior reducable, justifiable, and explainable by what time you last took your round white tablet.
Do something that doesn't make you happy, but makes someone else happy.
Expose yourself to others who are feeling loney. Senior citizens, dogs, cats, anyone. Enter their lives, connect with them, and it will let you begin to realize they are suffering, too, and they are relieved because of what you do. If you don't help others find happiness, how will you ever find it yourself?
You must touch others before you can ever touch yourself. How much has that helped you so far, these pills? I keep taking them, I mean, I'm the last person who says to stop taking them. But I have had to grow up eventually, and realize they're not a replacement for having touched someone else's life somehow.
It's simple: other people need you to help them. They find relief from you when you do. You are relieved when you realize you matter to others.
And you realize suffering occurs because it remains ignored. Ignore others, and you will assume others will ignore your suffering, and you will feel hopeless. Until you realize the ones who you help in this world are the ones who are helping you find out why you're not 17 anymore, and why you don't need euphoria from a drug to feel relieved. And I don't know what you have, bipolar or what. But everything can be reduced to some feeling of relief, just as everything can be magnified to some feeling of hopelessness. The only hope you can have to feeling better is to have more hope, and assume that you can be wrong about predicting how you will feel. If you didn't predict you would feel this was when you were 17, who's to say you can predict how you will feel when you're 37?
Posted by jerrympls on February 18, 2004, at 19:02:48
In reply to Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » jerrympls, posted by utopizen on February 18, 2004, at 18:44:20
> > I don't even remember the last time I experienced euphoria. Maybe back when I was 17-18 - before the Darkness fell. I'm 32 tomorrow. What a horrible life.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Jerry,
>
> I get 300 5mg tabs of Desoxyn for my narcolepsy (50mg/day, while the avg. daily dose is 20-25mg/day for ADD).
>
> I don't get euphoria, and lately I've been getting social liability (I express extreme sadness spontaneously when I talk to people often). I believe it's a mix of the Desoxyn and my sleep debt/insomnia contantly occuring so often. Adderall, I remember on occassion, would cause some instances of social liability if I choose to practicpate in a discussion the day following an all-nighter I did for a paper.
>
> But the high you experience, it's a stupid high. You feel very happy, but it gets old fast. I knew this in advance, and quit while I was ahead-- took 2mg of Klonopin and went to sleep an hour after the euphoria's onset. Protected my neurons, as Klonopin's a neuroprotective.
>
> It's the same high I experienced after climbing a large mountain when I was 13 and in the Boy Scouts. I had climbed it, went to the lodge, and sat with my friends as we said nothing and stared at the wall like we were half-sedated from some anesthetic-like drug for a full two hours. We were both fatigued and euphoric at the same time. It was over, all of the hurdles, all of the "this is never going to end" moments, but that's what made it meaningful. We reflected for two hours over what we had done, in our heads. Not random happy recollections of some girl I had a crush on, but a realization that life is a controllable variable that I can manage now and then on my own and yet still feel happy. I can feel happy, and there's no dose to record, no interval times to log, and no side effects to treat.
>
> When I experienced euphoria on the Desoxyn, it was a stupid grinny euphoria. It's not something I look back with and smile about, because there was no meaning behind it. I was happy at the time. Just that.
>
> When I look back to how I felt so accomplished and proved to myself I could be determined enough to finish something (a rare feat for an ADD kid!) -- that makes me smile to this day, 7 years later.
>
> Lots of drugs can cause euphoria. Dilantin can, even... I read a case of a prisoner who was prescribed it for convulsions and had to have his lawyer plea to get off it because he couldn't tolerate the effect.
>
> If you're searching for happiness from a pill, it is always a feeble journey. Pills are measurable, quantifiable, sceintifically reduced entities. They can help you find yourself when you're having tough times like depression and forgot who you once were, and remind yourself that you weren't always feeling the way you feel today, and that you will not feel this way for the rest of your life, and that all relief is found the day you realize you are still the same person you were before you felt hopeless.
>
> But they can only do this if you are willing to accept that the pills only can uncover what already is within you, waiting to come out. You were once happy. Your happiness, it's still there. It didn't die, hibernate, or anything like that. You are capable of feeling happy again, and you will within your lifetime. I hope a med can help you with this, but I also hope you explore things to combine with such a med, like exercise if you can and regular sleep and so forth. And reduced stress, if you can allow yourself to realize you're not Superman. All of these things, it's advice from a kid who's not following any of it. But I'm trying, slowly, to realize my meds will never be some magic bullet for me, ever.
>
> In other words, pills don't induce feelings. Your existing being induces whatever feelings you and your environment influences. And part of your environment happens to include pills, vitamins from foods you eat, and so forth. So taking a pill, that is taking in a part of your environment. But no pill can nullify the woes of your environment if it is too burdensome to bear.
>
> Only you can nullify your burden, alter your environment, and cope with the feelings you've let yourself over the years believe aren't possible to cope with. If coping means taking a pill, that may be what is best for you. But if it doesn't work out, you need to recgonize that pills alone aren't going to make you feel what you've felt when you were 17 or 18 again. You're in control of everything, not just doses, not just miligrams, but you.
>
> You elect what environment you are in, no matter what society has let you believe you must take on in some lonely, fearful, dark place. You'd be amazed at how refreshing and clarifying it is to turn the light on in the basement, walk outside, and tell yourself you will hike a mountain one day. Or volunteer to walk shelter dogs. Or connect with others who share your passions. No drugs will ever do this. No drug. No drug deserves to let you feel the way you would feel if you could somehow connect with another person who lets you know he or she loves you, or remind you humans aren't the only ones who want you to love them, and that you're not alone...
>
> when I worked in a shelter, I was just trying to come to terms with my life-long social anxiety. Connecting and helping animals that were afraid and lonely each day and giving them happiness let me know I could be with them in their loneliness, or in their friendship, and that was my choice, not my Celexa at 20mg b.i.d.
>
> Meds might help it make it easier for you to start, and hope they will, but the only thing that ever comes easy is to do what is truest for you to do.
>
> Pills are lonely. They are content with remaining in amber vials for you to take as you desire. But don't ever yourself believe you are reducable to a side effect profile, a dosage adjustment, a new drug trial, a drug interaction, or a dosage interval. These are to help your pills work, not you.
>
> You are more important than imaginary euphoric episodes, dyphoric discontentment, or your life's entire behavior reducable, justifiable, and explainable by what time you last took your round white tablet.
>
> Do something that doesn't make you happy, but makes someone else happy.
>
> Expose yourself to others who are feeling loney. Senior citizens, dogs, cats, anyone. Enter their lives, connect with them, and it will let you begin to realize they are suffering, too, and they are relieved because of what you do. If you don't help others find happiness, how will you ever find it yourself?
>
> You must touch others before you can ever touch yourself. How much has that helped you so far, these pills? I keep taking them, I mean, I'm the last person who says to stop taking them. But I have had to grow up eventually, and realize they're not a replacement for having touched someone else's life somehow.
>
> It's simple: other people need you to help them. They find relief from you when you do. You are relieved when you realize you matter to others.
>
> And you realize suffering occurs because it remains ignored. Ignore others, and you will assume others will ignore your suffering, and you will feel hopeless. Until you realize the ones who you help in this world are the ones who are helping you find out why you're not 17 anymore, and why you don't need euphoria from a drug to feel relieved. And I don't know what you have, bipolar or what. But everything can be reduced to some feeling of relief, just as everything can be magnified to some feeling of hopelessness. The only hope you can have to feeling better is to have more hope, and assume that you can be wrong about predicting how you will feel. If you didn't predict you would feel this was when you were 17, who's to say you can predict how you will feel when you're 37?WOW-- that was powerful and very insightful. I realize that happiness won't come from a pill...i think. Most of hwat you said above is very true...it's just hard and frustrating...to keep up this battle for years upon years - you know?
Thank you so much for your words - :-)
Many thanks
Jerry
Posted by sb417 on February 18, 2004, at 19:28:11
In reply to Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » jerrympls, posted by utopizen on February 18, 2004, at 18:44:20
Utopizen,
That was a great post. You revealed a part of yourself that you have not shown us before. Thank you.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 18, 2004, at 20:52:56
In reply to Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » jerrympls, posted by utopizen on February 18, 2004, at 18:44:20
I cannot recall the last time I heard a more impassioned articulation of the ethos of a healthy attitude toward drug use. An extremely high (in the spiritual sense) psychologist I had told it all to me this way: "Which model makes more sense in examining your life: neurotransmitters, or feelings and reasons?" I am not sure that I'll ever know how a philosophy major like myself ever got into drug abuse, for I am acutely aware of the mind-body problem and the absurdity of hard materialism. Oh, wait, I wanted to run away from myself ... so what did it matter what I knew then, you dig?
I used to be so well-written and well-spoken. I wrote 20-page papers in 400-level philosophy classes as a sophomore! I was nominated for philosophy undergrad of the year but got disqualified because I was too young! My psychopharm. professor wanted to get me on the "fast track" to John's Hopkins! Man, I'm all about drugs now, but I used to GET OFF ON CONSCIOUSNESS ALONE! Psychopharmacology is fantastic, but only if one doesn't ignore the PSYCHE part!
I now feel that I let this precious flame at best atrophy through excessive drug use and self-isolation, and at worst lost it forever through neurotoxic experiments with psychostimulants. My only consolation is knowing that I could someday better the lives of others through my own mistakes.
And who knows, when I dive back into school, I might find that fleeting rapture again ...
To the one seeking euphoria: using drugs to ENHANCE your life is healthy. Using them to FILL your life will create hell. Be thankful you cannot recapture that euphoria; it's your soul telling you that you're on a better path. Seek euthymia, not euphoria.
Posted by lepus on February 18, 2004, at 22:13:54
In reply to Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » jerrympls, posted by utopizen on February 18, 2004, at 18:44:20
Utopizen- Your words touched me deeply right when I needed to hear them. Thank you.
Posted by jerrympls on February 18, 2004, at 22:46:45
In reply to Re: Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you, posted by lepus on February 18, 2004, at 22:13:54
Just as a clarification - when I said in my original post "I don't remember the last time I felt euphoria..." I wasn't necessarily talking about euphoria as a result from a drug.
Just wanted to make that clear.....and thank for all the posts everyone - there are a lot of great people on this board!
Jerry
Posted by utopizen on February 19, 2004, at 5:29:39
In reply to Re: Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » utopizen, posted by jerrympls on February 18, 2004, at 19:02:48
> WOW-- that was powerful and very insightful. I realize that happiness won't come from a pill...i think. Most of hwat you said above is very true...it's just hard and frustrating...to keep up this battle for years upon years - you know?
>Of course it's a battle, and it's a battle that you've been trying to fight for years. But step back for a second. Are you a one man army? Who's on your side? Who's against you? What happens the day you decide to stop fighting, winning, or losing? What happens that day, is that you will, when it comes to you, realize there never was a battle around you, but within you. It was within your mind. You're telling yourself you need something to get done, like happiness, that needs to get done today, and if it doesn't, you'll never get it.
>If you worry for yourself, you will have burdens. If you worry for others, you will have challenges. It's up to you whether you want to battle yourself into an oblivion or use your talent to protect others who need you through their challenges, and life them up from their burderns. And the more you do this, life's heaviest burden-- loneliness- will lift away from yourself. It's loneliness that makes one feel they are fighting a battle, because they feel as though they're a one many army. But who are you fighting? Who are your friends? Have you found others you may surround yourself with that, instantly upon entering their presence, all of your anxities vanish from your mind and you feel at peace?
It's harder to continue battles while your friends surround you from both sides, now isn't it? Is it really your NE antagonist that needs potentiation? The most obvious things need to be looked at as though you were 16 again. Would you, at 16, do what you do now? Associate with who you associate now? Are you feeling down because your biochemistry got mixed up, or did your environment change since you were 16? Have you lost a grasp for what your true passions once were?
These are all things you need to ask yourself, and CBT is helpful for it... or, my favorite, The Feel Good Handbook. Although this drivel that I write, it's just rants... based on the principle that it's your environment that feeds you, food, neurochemicals, social relationships, and so on. The net sum of all these affect you as you are today, and knowing this is the most important thing you can ever realize.
Posted by PsychoSage on February 19, 2004, at 10:31:13
In reply to Re: Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » utopizen, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 18, 2004, at 20:52:56
> I cannot recall the last time I heard a more impassioned articulation of the ethos of a healthy attitude toward drug use. An extremely high (in the spiritual sense) psychologist I had told it all to me this way: "Which model makes more sense in examining your life: neurotransmitters, or feelings and reasons?" I am not sure that I'll ever know how a philosophy major like myself ever got into drug abuse, for I am acutely aware of the mind-body problem and the absurdity of hard materialism. Oh, wait, I wanted to run away from myself ... so what did it matter what I knew then, you dig?
>
> I used to be so well-written and well-spoken. I wrote 20-page papers in 400-level philosophy classes as a sophomore! I was nominated for philosophy undergrad of the year but got disqualified because I was too young! My psychopharm. professor wanted to get me on the "fast track" to John's Hopkins! Man, I'm all about drugs now, but I used to GET OFF ON CONSCIOUSNESS ALONE! Psychopharmacology is fantastic, but only if one doesn't ignore the PSYCHE part!
>
> I now feel that I let this precious flame at best atrophy through excessive drug use and self-isolation, and at worst lost it forever through neurotoxic experiments with psychostimulants. My only consolation is knowing that I could someday better the lives of others through my own mistakes.
>
> And who knows, when I dive back into school, I might find that fleeting rapture again ...
>
> To the one seeking euphoria: using drugs to ENHANCE your life is healthy. Using them to FILL your life will create hell. Be thankful you cannot recapture that euphoria; it's your soul telling you that you're on a better path. Seek euthymia, not euphoria.
What's euthymia? I am interested in hearing more about you, utopzian. It sounds like our stories our quite similar. Without obnoxiously repeating myself, i have posted the ghist of my story on here in some places. I'm always obsessed with my mind and thinking. I am not implying you do, but you sound like you have an acute awareness about philosophical issues regarding the mind and being. I abused psychostimulants {mostly illicit} at university, and it screwed me over.
Posted by PsychoSage on February 19, 2004, at 22:50:21
In reply to Re: Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » Chairman_MAO, posted by PsychoSage on February 19, 2004, at 10:31:13
Are you bipolar, utopzian?
>
> What's euthymia? I am interested in hearing more about you, utopzian. It sounds like our stories our quite similar. Without obnoxiously repeating myself, i have posted the ghist of my story on here in some places. I'm always obsessed with my mind and thinking. I am not implying you do, but you sound like you have an acute awareness about philosophical issues regarding the mind and being. I abused psychostimulants {mostly illicit} at university, and it screwed me over.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 20, 2004, at 7:46:58
In reply to Re: Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » Chairman_MAO, posted by PsychoSage on February 19, 2004, at 10:31:13
euthymia
1. Joyfulness; mental peace and tranquility.
2. Moderation of mood, not manic or depressed.
Origin: eu-+ G. Thymos, mind
Posted by Karen Moore on February 20, 2004, at 23:36:41
In reply to Re: euthymia, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 20, 2004, at 7:46:58
And what if one has been bouncing back and forth between both poles for so long that you no longer "know" what euthymia -really- is?!
I'm not trying to be facetious, I recently asked my pdoc this one. Because when I last returned to "euthymia" I was told the rapture that I felt when I returned to my art work was natural, normal for one who had lived in depression for so long. A month later my pdoc told me: "if you owned a gun I'd have you committed." -evidently manic. So was that rapture euthymia or hypomania?
For some of us euthymia seems more like Purgatory...> euthymia
>
> 1. Joyfulness; mental peace and tranquility.
>
> 2. Moderation of mood, not manic or depressed.
>
> Origin: eu-+ G. Thymos, mind
Posted by utopizen on February 22, 2004, at 17:49:11
In reply to Utopzian, posted by PsychoSage on February 19, 2004, at 22:50:21
> Are you bipolar, utopzian?
>
> >I don't even know anymore. =)
I've always been a happy kid. I'm 20 now, and well, lately been a bit down for a few months, but I can get happy, I just need a girlfriend and the spring weather and some exercise in a month on my Cannondale. It doesn't take much ot make me happy.
I've got ADD, so I took Adderall... um... my doc suggested I had bipolar, possibly, at the end of one session... because I mentioned I get anxious on it, and he said most people feel calm. (And how on earth do people get better handwriting on an amphetamine, by the way?) But he forgot he mentioned this and we never brought it up again.
I don't think so. Just lots and lots of ADD. I've had a neuropsychological evaluation. If I'm having a bad day, I try to look in the mirror a lot. Total evidence that ego and social anxiety disorder are unrelated, because I'm excessively egotistical. I don't talk to myself in the mirror, I just look at myself. =)
Posted by ed_uk on December 13, 2004, at 10:24:30
In reply to Re: Dysphoria- it's your environment, not you » utopizen, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 18, 2004, at 20:52:56
Hi,
Have you read utopizen's insightful post near the start of this thread?
Drugs are not the only route to recovery.........................
He has an important point to make because too often people with mental health problems view their medication as the most important factor in their recovery, or perhaps even the only route to recovery.
After many years of taking ADs I am still unsure whether I have really been helped by them. Yes, I have improved... but I might have done better without them, I might have improved anyway. Getting older, exposing myself to my fears and trying to keep busy have probably helped me more than anything.
When I was depressed I viewed ADs as the only solution.... but when I look back, I improved only a little when I found an effective AD. What really helped me to get back on track was forcing myself to go back to college. When you have isolated yourself from your friends and family no quantity of ADs will make you happy.... going to work, forcing yourself to get up in the morning and finding new friends (or meeting up with old friends) may do you a lot more good than the latest 'combo'.
................................................................................................................................................
To those interested in 'cosmetic psychopharmacology'........
Remember, a never-ending state of drug-induced euphoria is not possible, nor is it healthy. The world would not work if we were happy all the time. The idea behind the 'Good Drug Guide' is a fantasy. As they say, what goes up must come down :-(
As Chairman_MAO said... 'To the one seeking euphoria: using drugs to ENHANCE your life is healthy. Using them to FILL your life will create hell.'
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 16:46:31
In reply to Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs?, posted by ed_uk on December 13, 2004, at 10:24:30
Yeah, well,
I first went on AD's and I got better. I thought that I had done all the work and that I was responsable for getting myself better.
So then I went of the drugs, and crashed worse than I ever have in my life. I have never got better since then.
It's theraputic to thinkt hat you are responsable for your recovery. But (for me anyway) this is not true.
Linkadge
Posted by jerrympls on December 13, 2004, at 17:12:21
In reply to Re: Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs?, posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 16:46:31
> Yeah, well,
>
> I first went on AD's and I got better. I thought that I had done all the work and that I was responsable for getting myself better.
>
> So then I went of the drugs, and crashed worse than I ever have in my life. I have never got better since then.
>
> It's theraputic to thinkt hat you are responsable for your recovery. But (for me anyway) this is not true.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Link and I have the same story. I don't think you'd tell a diabetic not to rely on medication. I think that most - if not all on the board are close to being treatment-resistant and are looking for something that will allow them to get on with their lives. I would love to get on with my life rather than chase psychopharmocology - but it's a must since we live in a time where doctors shy away from those who need strong polypharmacy. I doubt if anyone here wants to feel good all time time -but there's a difference. We all strive to become depression-free so when we do experience a "normal" high in life the rebound from that doesn't result in total despair and darkness.I applaud any and all who seek to further their knowledge about medication because our doctors who can barely get us in for 15 mins. each month certainly don't have the time to do the research we do. And if in doing that research it keeps us going, then so be it.
No one here denies that therapy along with medication is the best combination. But to tell someone to stop searching for a medication that might make her or she feel "good" is the wrong approach in my mind. I think if you gave everyone here the choice of artificial contentment and genuine contentment - my guess is 100% would go for the genuine every time.
God bless all of us researchers...
Jerry
Posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 7:49:38
In reply to Re: Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs? » linkadge, posted by jerrympls on December 13, 2004, at 17:12:21
>I don't think you'd tell a diabetic not to rely on medication.
Hi Jerry,
I'm not sure whether this comment was directed at me.... If it was you have misunderstood my post. If a person requires medication to maintain euthymia I would be very much in favour of them taking it. My post asked... 'Do you have a healthy attitude to drug use?' It seems that you do :-)
>We all strive to become depression-free so when we do experience a "normal" high in life the rebound from that doesn't result in total despair and darkness.When I mentioned euphoria I was refering only to the fleeting euphoria produced by abusing a drug. I was not talking about the 'normal' highs of life or the stability which might be achieved via the use of appropriate medication.... Drug induced euphoria is often followed by unpleasant things.
>But to tell someone to stop searching for a medication that might make her or she feel "good" is the wrong approach in my mind.
I applaud anyone who attempts to search for better treatment. My post was intended to draw attention to the role of non-medical factors in a person's recovery and to warn of the risks of assuming that medication is the only route to health. For some people, although by no means all, non-medical factors may play a greater role in their recovery than medication. Some people need their medication to function, but this does not apply to everyone.
Best Wishes,
Ed.
Posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 13:23:11
In reply to Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs?, posted by ed_uk on December 13, 2004, at 10:24:30
I do not exist in a drug induced state of euphoria, just what most people would consider normal, and if that is cosmetic psychopharmacology so be it.
I have no doubt the medications are mainly responsible as oodles and oodles of therapy and alternatives failed miserably and I am a trained therapist!
I find your dismissal offensive.Glenn
Posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 13:41:06
In reply to Re: Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs?, posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 13:23:11
Clearly, you did not understand my post.
I am in no way dismissing medication. I benefit from it myself and some people need it.
'Cosmetic psychopharmacology' refers to the use of drugs to promote a supra-normal state. Using medication to maintain euthymia is not cosmetic psychopharmacology
Posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 13:58:09
In reply to Re: Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs? » glenn, posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 13:41:06
Posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 14:01:17
In reply to Re: Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs? (nm), posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 13:58:09
I think so.
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 14:43:51
In reply to Re: Do you have a healthy attitude to drugs? » glenn, posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 14:01:17
It upsets me when people misinterpret my posts.
Sometimes I wish I could delete posts when people keep replying when they haven't understood what I was saying. So often people reply without understanding the context because they haven't read the whole thread. Someone on the Newbies board recently said that they were afraid of posting because of the way that people respond, I can understand that.
My post was intended to draw attention to the dangers of feeling that medication is the only solution. For some people it clearly is but for many people it is not. Feeling that pills are the only route to recovery can create a sense of helpnessness, I have felt this way myself many times. I would never dismiss the importance of medication for some people.
When I wrote about cosmetic psychopharmacology I was refering to the post by Chairman_MAO. I was not talking about the treatment of mental illness at that point.
Please... if you are going to reply, please read the whole thread.
Ed.
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