Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 53462

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Re: I'll testify against you

Posted by PoohBear on January 16, 2004, at 12:02:12

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Angielala on January 15, 2004, at 14:54:07

I too have had very good results.

I believe that many who are experiencing difficulties are being over-dosed, or do not have good follow-up from their PDoc, etc.

MOST people who take any medication do NOT post on these boards. There are many, many people who are being helped not only by Effexor but other AD's, otherwise we would hear about it in the mainstream press.

TR

 

Re: effexor lawsuit

Posted by ST on January 17, 2004, at 4:14:47

In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24

Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
Sarah

 

Re: effexor lawsuit » ST

Posted by micro on January 19, 2004, at 0:06:03

In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by ST on January 17, 2004, at 4:14:47

> Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
> Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
> Sarah

Sara, many medications can cause rebound symtoms. The Key [as you stated] is that titration up or down varies greatly [which many pdocs don't realize].Pcps are less experienced and hand out benzo's and ssri's like candy. The key [as in any case] is the doctor's ability to handle their cases. Pill cutters are not uncommon and good docs know to use them on a case by case basis. There is Nothing wrong with pill cutting to reduce withdrawl. Make sure your doc knows what you are doing and maybe you will both learn something very beneficial. Best Wishes . Micro

 

Re: effexor lawsuit

Posted by KimberlyDi on January 19, 2004, at 16:43:03

In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit » ST, posted by micro on January 19, 2004, at 0:06:03

I wonder how much of Effexor's markup price vs cost is to cover the inevitable lawsuits that occur. I've taken Effexor. I suffered through withdrawal. I learned to be very careful and smart about how I discontinue it. You won't find me banging on some lawyers door. Just wait until we can't even take anti-depressants or any drug without signing a release form first to both doctor and drug company.



> > Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
> > Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
> > Sarah
>
> Sara, many medications can cause rebound symtoms. The Key [as you stated] is that titration up or down varies greatly [which many pdocs don't realize].Pcps are less experienced and hand out benzo's and ssri's like candy. The key [as in any case] is the doctor's ability to handle their cases. Pill cutters are not uncommon and good docs know to use them on a case by case basis. There is Nothing wrong with pill cutting to reduce withdrawl. Make sure your doc knows what you are doing and maybe you will both learn something very beneficial. Best Wishes . Micro

 

Re: effexor lawsuit

Posted by PoohBear on January 20, 2004, at 14:12:11

In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by KimberlyDi on January 19, 2004, at 16:43:03

> I wonder how much of Effexor's markup price vs cost is to cover the inevitable lawsuits that occur. I've taken Effexor. I suffered through withdrawal. I learned to be very careful and smart about how I discontinue it. You won't find me banging on some lawyers door. Just wait until we can't even take anti-depressants or any drug without signing a release form first to both doctor and drug company.
>

What a breath of fresh air!

Thanks Kimberly!

TR

 

Re: Effexor In The Courtroom

Posted by ivamcgoo on February 10, 2004, at 9:52:02

In reply to Effexor In The Courtroom (nm), posted by ivamcgoo on February 10, 2004, at 9:44:01

I have been on effexor xr for a approximately two years. However, the side effects have kept me from returning to work and have isolated me from family and friends. Under the "supervision" of my doctor, I have gradually reduced my daily dose to 37.5mg (from 150mg). Hot flashes, constant shock sensations, nausea, appetite loss with weight gain (figure that one out), hair loss, inconsistent and painful bowel function, increased incidence of migraine attacks, general body pain, frequent and intrusive violent dreams, insomnia, tremours, mood swings, tingling sensation in hands/feet, eye burning and twitching, sexual dysfunction (for which my doctor wanted to prescribe yet another drug), irreversable tinnitus, daily changes in vision ... and the list goes on. My life has literally been put on hold until I can purge this poison from every organ in my body; a long and tedious process. Withdrawal is deadly. My doctor is becoming unresponsive as though she is growing bored and weary of my constant complaints about the aforementioned side effects. She appears to be offended that I am researching (via internet) effexor and other drugs that have been suggested, ie: wellbutrin, remeron, etc. and tells me (with a straight face!) that she is unaware of these side effects/severe withdrawal. I am convinced that doctors, supported by drug companies, do not know, or do not care, what they are prescribing to patients in the mental health system. Due to the stigma associated with "mental health patients", our voices are weak and disregarded as though we have no worthy input of our treatment. I have been sent to psychiatrists who fall asleep before me, only to awaken asking "me" where we left off? I may be a patient of mental health, but I am not stupid. In the movie "The Hours," Virginia Woolf said, "The meanest patient, even the lowest, is allowed some say in the matter of [his] her own perscription ..." Perhaps this drug (effexor) has merit for some. But I have read too many postings on too many messages boards like this (as well as other venues), indicating that this drug is "problematic" at best, deserving of a "second look" if you will. Given the opportunity (and financial resources), I would welcome the courtroom arena!
Best regards to ALL - ivamcgoo@go.com

 

Re: I'll testify against you

Posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Maxine on February 8, 2001, at 13:11:53

I hate to be the odd man out on this - so I'll through in my two cents. I went through the withdrawl and I CAN assure you it wasnt pretty, this was a year or so ago. However, clinically, Effexor is proving superior to many of the other AD's out there. Ask your doc's - dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more - the stuff just works. For me it was a miracle - it pooped out after three years, I tried it again, but to no effect. If Someone told me I could back on it and I would work the way it did before, Id gladly go through the withdrawl again and Id do it again.
Counterpoint - I also believe that the makers of effexor have completely failed in their attempts to educate doctors/consumers in the withdrawl effects. But I will bet you - that there is a very bright bio-pharm out their that is developing a drug solely for Effexor withdrawl. My port's bio-tech light so Im keeping my eyes out.
The only other point I would mention is that bringing this into a courtroom could prove absolutely fatal for many, many other benficial medications out there. I do think that there is a time and place when going before the bench has merit and value. I dont belive this to be one of those times.
Last, I would point out that advances in neurological understinding, neuro technology, bio-synthesis methods etc, are resulting in an understanding of the brain that even five years ago people would not have believed. This is where we should put our faith.

Thanks for listening.

 

^5!!! Ditto (nm) » Althea8869

Posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 8:40:34

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02

 

Re: ^5!!! Ditto

Posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 8:53:37

In reply to ^5!!! Ditto (nm) » Althea8869, posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 8:40:34

A little further research last night told me that ,in fact, there are several companies that are in the early stages of developing medications for the SOLE purpose of withdrawing from antidepressants. I'll get the link and post it.

 

Re: I'll testify against you

Posted by sjb on February 11, 2004, at 13:22:16

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02

"dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more -"

Well, yeah, but if it was so great and/or didn't poop out, why are lots of folk going off of it, hence the withdrawals???

Effexor was one of the best meds for me but it pooped out and coming off of it is not a walk in the park. What has it done to us, that makes the withdrawal so unpleasant???

 

Re: ^5!!! Ditto

Posted by justjustine on February 11, 2004, at 14:50:28

In reply to Re: ^5!!! Ditto, posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 8:53:37

i'm sorry, but i believe these pharmaceutical companies are not to be trusted.

who will make the drug to help us withdraw from the drug that helps us withdraw from the drug (the one we supposedly were never dependent on to begin with?)? doesn't anyone remember that heroin was introduced as an antidote to morphine addiction?

> A little further research last night told me that ,in fact, there are several companies that are in the early stages of developing medications for the SOLE purpose of withdrawing from antidepressants. I'll get the link and post it.

 

Effexor needs a longer half life

Posted by shadows721 on February 11, 2004, at 14:56:07

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by sjb on February 11, 2004, at 13:22:16

I am not a chemist, but it appears to me that Effexor needs a longer half life. It dumps out the system too fast and that is responsible for these cripling withdrawal effects. That's why Prozac is helpful. Prozac's half life is several days. They don't need a withdrawal med. They need to extend the half life of the med. It seems this drug is giving the brain a rush of 190 proof like power and then drops to zero in a few hours. The result is like a decent into Hell.

Personally, I wouldn't dare put myself into that fix. It's not about having a strong will power. It's about chemistry. I would definately use Prozac to help. A doctor friend of mine switched to Lexapro. He didn't have the Hellish withdrawal either.

 

Re: ^5!!! Ditto

Posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 16:35:17

In reply to Re: ^5!!! Ditto, posted by justjustine on February 11, 2004, at 14:50:28

You know its interesting - I was just thinking that in a broad sense we are the generation that is doing the clinical testing for the next. With the staggering increase in knowledge about brain chemistry in just the last few years, and the greater acceptance of depression as a disease, it is believed that the next generation will have taylor made solutions. Get an MRI, few blood tests and they'll know exactly what the problem is and exactly what med(s) to give you. If you look back in time just a few decades, the number of options for treatment decreases exponentially. Not that im happy being anyones test subject, but if I knew that my child was going to suffer from depression at some point in his life, than I think the difficluties that I have had trying these different meds is, by comparison, acceptable.
With regard to the drug companies, it's the CEO's and the salesmen that I dont trust, I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for the R&D folks, who are not getting paid very much, even in the private sector, and still manage to find increasingly sophisticated and novel ways to help, and in some cases cure, serious diseases. Last night I was reading some abstracts from some Pharm study site, and one abstract was about a novel new antidepressant, now in stage one trials(so it has no name), that is proving as efficacious, if not more so, than anything currently available. The intrigueing part though, is that it has absolutely no appreciable effect on any of the neurochemicals that people associate with depression. Many people forget, or just dont realize, that our knowledege of the brain, especially as it pertains to mood/behaviour is still in its infancy - despite the incredible pace over the last few years.

Anyway, had a few free minutes so I though id post. Take care.

 

Re: I'll testify against you

Posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 16:58:21

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by sjb on February 11, 2004, at 13:22:16

I quit ONLY because it raised my blood pressure too high (and I was a person with unusually low BP). Plus, it was alittle pricey.

That's all.
KDi in TX

> "dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more -"
>
> Well, yeah, but if it was so great and/or didn't poop out, why are lots of folk going off of it, hence the withdrawals???
>
> Effexor was one of the best meds for me but it pooped out and coming off of it is not a walk in the park. What has it done to us, that makes the withdrawal so unpleasant???

 

Re: I'll testify against you

Posted by sjb on February 12, 2004, at 6:56:59

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 16:58:21

I do not think an increase in BP is the primary reason for stopping Effexor. For sure, BP should be monitored, esp. while on this drug, as an increase is not an uncommon response. MY BP did not change much, and I too, tend to be on the low side. I'm also an athlete.

I think we have to be careful here to draw sweeping conclusions, one way or the other, based on our own, unique personal experience. What we do know, as a common problem for many people, is that withdrawal is more severe with this drug than with many others, and I reiterate, we know this because a LOT of people are getting off of it.

 

Re: I'll testify against you » sjb

Posted by Emme on February 12, 2004, at 8:42:01

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by sjb on February 12, 2004, at 6:56:59

> I do not think an increase in BP is the primary reason for stopping Effexor.

Sounds like a good enough reason to me if it's raised too much. Kimberly said hers was raised a lot.

> I think we have to be careful here to draw sweeping conclusions, one way or the other, based on our own, unique personal experience.

It didn't sound to me like Kimberly was doing that. She just said why *she* quit.

Emme

 

Re: effexor lawsuit - petition to sign first

Posted by flyingdreams on February 12, 2004, at 11:54:38

In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24

Here's a start, sign the petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/petition.html

Second email the media:

dateline@nbc.com

 

Thanks Emme » Emme

Posted by KimberlyDi on February 12, 2004, at 15:14:36

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you » sjb, posted by Emme on February 12, 2004, at 8:42:01

I was about to get midevil on that last poster. I know why I stopped Effexor. Not willingly! It was a great AD for me even though yes, the withdrawal is terrible.

KDi in TX

> > I do not think an increase in BP is the primary reason for stopping Effexor.
>
> Sounds like a good enough reason to me if it's raised too much. Kimberly said hers was raised a lot.
>
> > I think we have to be careful here to draw sweeping conclusions, one way or the other, based on our own, unique personal experience.
>
> It didn't sound to me like Kimberly was doing that. She just said why *she* quit.
>
> Emme
>
>

 

Re: effexor lawsuit - petition to sign first

Posted by Althea8869 on February 12, 2004, at 16:38:31

In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit - petition to sign first, posted by flyingdreams on February 12, 2004, at 11:54:38

Ok - I have read the petition and just want to comment on it briefly. I agree with about 95% of it.
Here is where I see some trouble.
"...and that Wyeth-Ayerst knew of these risks but failed to communicate those risks to the consumer and their physicians." --- Given that independent medical organizations did many of the trials during the initial testing for FDA approval and forwarded those results directly to the FDA or regional governing body for dissemination, Wyeth would not have been in much of a position to cover them up. SSRI discontinuation problems have been known about since long before this drug was approved. Yet the FDA never required specific documents regarding study of this. I looked today at their boiler plate, and they still dont seem to.

Here's the other problem:
"we have found that the disclosure regarding the side effects and efficacy of Effexor that we were given and which is still being propagated, is significantly misleading to the consumer." This talks about side effects and efficacy, not discontinuation. I dont think it would be wise to attack Wyeth on an efficacy front- Here's an abstract from PubMed:
"Remission rates during treatment with venlafaxine or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.....Remission rates were: venlafaxine, 45% (382/851); SSRIs, 35% (260/748)....CONCLUSIONS: Remission rates were significantly higher with venlafaxine than with an SSRI." This was just one of many results showing it superior to SSRI's and in some cases TCA's.
The other thing is that in terms of "side-effects" which means individual responses seen during use of the drug which are directly attributable to the drug, Effexor's side effects are no worse, and in many cases better, than any of the other SSRI's.

Here's what i'm driving at - the petition needs to be re-written to account for some statements that simply dont bear out. If the petition were about the severity of discontinuation symptoms and the neeed for the FDA to begin studying this and requiring drug companies to submit discontinuation trial results, than I'd actually sign it - especially given how bad mine were.

 

Re: effexor lawsuit - petition to sign first

Posted by ivamcgoo on February 12, 2004, at 17:03:57

In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit - petition to sign first, posted by flyingdreams on February 12, 2004, at 11:54:38

THANK YOU for the petition and dateline's email address ...

 

Re: I'll testify against you

Posted by noa on February 12, 2004, at 19:13:46

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Angielala on January 15, 2004, at 14:54:07

>You are the first person I have heard anything good about this drug.

I know that there are a lot of problems with Effexor, BUT, perhaps the reason you hear more bad than good is that people posting here on this topic are frustrated and angry and more motivated to post about it.

I see effexor for what it is. On the one hand the medication that finally broke through my depressive symptoms after a long haul of searching. ON the other hand, it has its limitations--I don't tolerate the SEs at higher doses, so it is most effective for me in combination with other meds, and there are still some SEs I'd rather do without. And I know that there are withdrawal challenges should I decide to go off of it.

But it is a key component of a cocktail that is working for me, that has allowed me to be in remission from a very bad chronic depression. I consider this my "holding pattern" until something new and better comes along--until the science comes up with a new treatment with a new mechanism of action. It may be a while, and that's ok.

I agree that more truth about the realities of this medication are in order. And perhaps it should only be prescribed by doctors with special training in psychopharm, rather than by family doctors. I certainly wouldn't want it to be prescribed as a first line trial treatment because it is a powerful medication with "issues".

But there are people like me out there who have and continue to benefit from this medication. I myself don't have the energy to post frequently about its positives, and I suspecct this is true of others who feel the med has benefits, so you might get more of the negative slant on things here.

JMHO : )

 

constructive action re: Effexor w/o lawyers!...

Posted by cupcake on February 12, 2004, at 23:24:57

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by noa on February 12, 2004, at 19:13:46

behold the power of the blog!

i just wanted to add my two cents to the conversation. i'm currently embarking upon the lovely journey of Effexor withdrawal myself--veeeeery slowly. in my online searches for help and info on the withdrawal process, i've found many discussions and comments like the ones in this thread, but little in the way of resources and "sturdy" information. i saw the petition mentioned earlier, but i agree with some of the others that a lawsuit might not be the best way to go.

personally, i would love to just be able to find out more *good,* helpful information about how to get through the withdrawal process OK (w/o having to go on prozac--i'm on effexor in the first place b/c prozac and other ssri's made me very anxious among other things). and i want doctors, therapists, pdocs, and prospective takers of the drug to have a lot more knowledge and awareness of the side effects and withdrawal effects associated with it. i decided to put up a blog documenting my withdrawal process in the hopes that i could also encourage readers to comment on their own experiences (through the little comment function link at the end of each blog entry) and what helped them get through it.

also, by having one place to put links to helpful info, research, and generally all things effexor withdrawal-related (including people's anecdotes and stories, both horrific and not-so-horrific), my bigger goal is to amass a cohesive body of information and anecdotal evidence that somebody might one day be able to use as the basis forproposing/funding a really in-depth independent study of what exactly causes effexor withdrawal, traditional and alternative methods for lessening its effects, and maybe how to identify--through lab tests or medical history and/or some type of clinical assessment instrument or whatever--who would NOT be a good candidate for this type of drug.

from my own experiences (on prozac, paxil, serzone, wellbutrin, gabitril, and finally effexor), i know that prescribing AD's seems to be such an unexact hit or miss and there just HAS to be a way to get around all the pain and suffering (yeah, i know, the violins in the background) we've all experienced from just being on the wrong drug!

that said, like others have already mentioned, effexor has been truly helpful for some people. myself included, at the beginning.

for the record, i've been on effexor 1.5 years and was at 300 mg/day when i decided to try getting off (last week). i've been holding steady-ish at 150 mg/day for the past several days but feel like crap the closer i get to dose time every day. more info on the blog, of course, at:

http://brainzaps.tblog.com
Brainzaps: A Journal of Effexor Withdrawal

please feel free to post comments about your own experiences there if you feel so inclined.

 

Re: constructive action re: Effexor w/o lawyers!... » cupcake

Posted by noa on February 13, 2004, at 8:24:32

In reply to constructive action re: Effexor w/o lawyers!..., posted by cupcake on February 12, 2004, at 23:24:57

C-

I wish you luck. One thought, though. If you just started lowering the dose from 300 last week and are already at 150, to me that doesn't seem slow at all.

I think other people have had better luck going much slower than that and have been fine through much of the tapering, until, that is, they get to the final jump of going from 37.5 to nothing.

But if you've gone down 150 mg in just a week, thta seems rather fast to me and I am not surprised that you're having WD symptoms at this point.

 

Re: I'll testify against you

Posted by sjb on February 13, 2004, at 9:51:32

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you » sjb, posted by Emme on February 12, 2004, at 8:42:01

I didn't word that right. Of course, if your BP goes up a lot due to Effexor, you should stop. I just think most folks go off due to other reasons.

 

I'll testify for you

Posted by leo33 on February 15, 2004, at 0:20:34

In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by sjb on February 13, 2004, at 9:51:32

I think the drug companies should pay for the pain and suffering caused by their drugs, especially for lying and withholding information from the public about the drugs possible negative effects. I think law suits are in order and the solution for their unethical practices. They understand the language of money and nothing else.


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