Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 225720

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Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? cybercafe

Posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 23:33:32

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2003, at 16:24:49

Wow, Cybercafe.. you are one of the people to whom one can say, "follow your heart- you can do ANYTHING!" However, I know you would have if something major weren't blocking your way. Just checking - but are you state of the art on medication for ADHD? I know that can be brought under good control, because my son has it severely, and with medication, is just completing a PhD in physics (string theory) at Princeton- his IQ is 26 points less than yours. Not that you would want to do physics- but you would need something difficult, challenging and exciting, wouldn't you?

Pfinstegg

 

Re: My post? johnj

Posted by MB on May 27, 2003, at 23:39:33

In reply to My post? MB, posted by johnj on May 19, 2003, at 13:44:26

Oh, no, I wasn't upset about your post at all...I didn't even read it until today. I was just grumpy about things in general, and took it out in a lame way on Ame Sans Vie. I think your question is interesting: "Was Calculus invented or discovered?" I sometimes figure that the properties of the Universe are "discovered," while the techniques used to measure those properties, and the means to make predictions based on those measurements are "invented". But then again, I wonder sometimes if all knowledge is innate, and if we are really "rediscovering" what we have always known (the "you already are the Buddha" sort of thing). Wow, sometimes I listen to myself talk and wonder if *I* took too much acid. lol

MB


> I am sorry I wasn't trying to hurt you. I said it in jest not out of spite or hateful intentions. I know where you stand right now as I am in the same place. Last week I had 3 horrible nights and had to go on a med that makes me zoned out, but affords me some sleep. I have had up and downs for over a year and it sucks. I agree we all deserve better than what we feel right now. Please accept my apology.
> johnj

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by cybercafe on May 28, 2003, at 3:55:47

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? cybercafe, posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 23:33:32

> Wow, Cybercafe.. you are one of the people to whom one can say, "follow your heart- you can do ANYTHING!" However, I know you would have if

thanks bro :)

>something major weren't blocking your way. Just checking - but are you state of the art on medication for ADHD? I know that can be brought

well my problem is that stimulant medication tends to work against mood stabilizing medication (i am bipolar and have ADHD)

>under good control, because my son has it severely, and with medication, is just completing a PhD in physics (string theory) at Princeton- his IQ is 26 points less than yours. Not that you would want to do physics- but you would need something difficult, challenging and exciting, wouldn't you?

hey that sounds quite cool... :) yeah i once considered a PhD in solid state physics (semiconductors are cool) ....

now i have no idea what i want to do .. maybe i'll hit pharmacy college or law school ... hmmmm

 

Re: My post?

Posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2003, at 7:38:57

In reply to Re: My post? johnj, posted by MB on May 27, 2003, at 23:39:33

>I think your question is interesting: "Was Calculus invented or discovered?" I sometimes figure that the properties of the Universe are "discovered," while the techniques used to measure those properties, and the means to make predictions based on those measurements are "invented".

You really ought to read a history of Isaac Newton. He invented calculus to solve equations related to the curvilinear motion of bodies under the effects of gravity.

Lar

 

Redirect: calculus

Posted by Dr. Bob on May 28, 2003, at 20:44:28

In reply to Re: My post?, posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2003, at 7:38:57

> You really ought to read a history of Isaac Newton. He invented calculus to solve equations related to the curvilinear motion of bodies under the effects of gravity.

This is an interesting discussion, but since it doesn't have to do with medication, I'd like to redirect it to Psycho-Social-Babble, thanks.

Bob

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by kc8ntp on October 15, 2003, at 6:03:55

In reply to CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by MichelleMyBelle on May 11, 2003, at 1:12:46

Michelle:

First I will tell you,an average I.Q. is 100, which you should have known with an I.Q. of 127. I.Q. is mental age\real age * 100, which for those with just a little understanding of basic algabra, that would mean the average was 100. I am a genius with an I.Q. of 170. I will tell you, my intelligence comes from being home-schooled. However, because I was home-schooled, and didn't have very much social contact, I have a great range of mental disorders. I have social anxiety disorder, panic disorder with agoraphobia, and bi-polar disorder. I would not give up my I.Q. to be rid of these disorders, since I can get through them, but could not get over being stupid.

John

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by femlite on October 15, 2003, at 10:11:18

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by kc8ntp on October 15, 2003, at 6:03:55

Hi John Just think of the mental illnesses you could of had if youd gone to formal school?

Im jesting (slightly)
Ive kept my kids home to prevent mental illness. I dont care what their IQ is.
(Im NOT saying ALL formally educated people are mentally ill. so please people dont write me that okay.)

Do you really think your ill becuse of home school?

Most people think my kids are great. But I work at them having a broad range of social expereinces.


> Michelle:
>
> First I will tell you,an average I.Q. is 100, which you should have known with an I.Q. of 127. I.Q. is mental age\real age * 100, which for those with just a little understanding of basic algabra, that would mean the average was 100. I am a genius with an I.Q. of 170. I will tell you, my intelligence comes from being home-schooled. However, because I was home-schooled, and didn't have very much social contact, I have a great range of mental disorders. I have social anxiety disorder, panic disorder with agoraphobia, and bi-polar disorder. I would not give up my I.Q. to be rid of these disorders, since I can get through them, but could not get over being stupid.
>
> John

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by cybercafe on October 15, 2003, at 12:14:18

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by kc8ntp on October 15, 2003, at 6:03:55

> Michelle:
>
> First I will tell you,an average I.Q. is 100, which you should have known with an I.Q. of 127. I.Q. is mental age\real age * 100, which for those with just a little understanding of basic algabra, that would mean the average was 100. I am a genius with an I.Q. of 170. I will tell you, my intelligence comes from being home-schooled. However, because I was home-schooled, and didn't have very much social contact, I have a great range of mental disorders. I have social anxiety disorder, panic disorder with agoraphobia, and bi-polar disorder. I would not give up my I.Q. to be rid of these disorders, since I can get through them, but could not get over being stupid.

but wait.... you're saying you can't get over being stupid... i.e. no experience will raise your IQ from stupid to non-stupid... yet.. you also mentioned that being home-schooled is an experience which raised your IQ to 170

i often wonder how much mental disorders are caused by environment............. hmmmmm

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by stjames on October 15, 2003, at 12:53:51

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by kc8ntp on October 15, 2003, at 6:03:55

IQ is not what you know, it measures the ability to learn and what specific learning methods you use. Quoting a single IQ index is useless.

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by djmmm on October 15, 2003, at 18:07:34

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by kc8ntp on October 15, 2003, at 6:03:55

> Michelle:
>
> First I will tell you,an average I.Q. is 100, which you should have known with an I.Q. of 127. I.Q. is mental age\real age * 100, which for those with just a little understanding of basic algabra, that would mean the average was 100. I am a genius with an I.Q. of 170. I will tell you, my intelligence comes from being home-schooled. However, because I was home-schooled, and didn't have very much social contact, I have a great range of mental disorders. I have social anxiety disorder, panic disorder with agoraphobia, and bi-polar disorder. I would not give up my I.Q. to be rid of these disorders, since I can get through them, but could not get over being stupid.
>
> John

170? according to what scale/tests?
Wechsler Scales? Ravens Standard Matrices ?

A high IQ score, like a high SAT score, is subjective. Intelligence cannot be accurately measured...for example, since you were homeschooled, how would you "score" the intelligence acquired from personal interaction with your peers? (street smarts-- for lack of better words)

There is no correlation between high/low IQ and "conventional" mental illness (depression, anxiety, etc.) If you are referring to mental illness involving violence (sociopaths, etc.) I would say that there is evidence that "they" tend to have higher IQ's than the rest of the population...based on what is provided to us via the media... and naturally, the subjective tests used for measurement.

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by cybercafe on October 16, 2003, at 1:20:27

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by djmmm on October 15, 2003, at 18:07:34

> > Michelle:
> >
> > First I will tell you,an average I.Q. is 100, which you should have known with an I.Q. of 127. I.Q. is mental age\real age * 100, which for those with just a little understanding of basic algabra, that would mean the average was 100. I am a genius with an I.Q. of 170. I will tell you, my intelligence comes from being home-schooled. However, because I was home-schooled, and didn't have very much social contact, I have a great range of mental disorders. I have social anxiety disorder, panic disorder with agoraphobia, and bi-polar disorder. I would not give up my I.Q. to be rid of these disorders, since I can get through them, but could not get over being stupid.
> >
> > John
>
> 170? according to what scale/tests?
> Wechsler Scales? Ravens Standard Matrices ?
>
> A high IQ score, like a high SAT score, is subjective. Intelligence cannot be accurately measured...for example, since you were homeschooled, how would you "score" the intelligence acquired from personal interaction with your peers? (street smarts-- for lack of better words)
>
> There is no correlation between high/low IQ and "conventional" mental illness (depression, anxiety, etc.) If you are referring to mental illness involving violence (sociopaths, etc.) I would say that there is evidence that "they" tend to have higher IQ's than the rest of the population...based on what is provided to us via the media... and naturally, the subjective tests used for measurement.


i've heard that mental illnesses that are related to hyper activity in the pre frontal cortex (SZ, bipolar, eating disorders) are associated with higher levels of IQ (though only a few points)....

my IQ is up around 150, 160 but i feel like a retard a lot... i think i have a learning disorder, though maybe it's just ADD

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? MichelleMyBelle

Posted by Arrianna on October 17, 2003, at 23:44:26

In reply to CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by MichelleMyBelle on May 11, 2003, at 1:12:46

Hmmm....this is very interesting. Actually never heard of this concept (fact??) before. According to past IQ tests, etc., I believe my IQ to be in the range of average. But, it's nice to think that because of mental illness, I'm a genuis. Ha! Ha!

In some ways I guess I am a genious, in others, not so much, so I guess that'd just make me average.

What about emotional intelligence?? In this area, I feel I'm quite knowledgeable and aware. Even though it'd be nice to be a super genious, I feel that having a high emotional intelligence has served me better in life. Just my opionion.

What about everyone else? Emotional IQ??

Arrianna

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by Francesco on October 18, 2003, at 12:34:24

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? MichelleMyBelle, posted by Arrianna on October 17, 2003, at 23:44:26

I think there is a correlation. if you're strange when you're a child you tend to see the world in a different manner, to feel detached from others and therefore to start *thinking* (in the attempt to solve your problems). on the other side if you feel connected with the rest of the world (mom and dad and so on) you have no need to wonder yourself about anything.

also the opposite seems true. if you're very clever people will find you strange (most people have an average IQ, by definition) and that could bring mental problems.

I wouldn't talk anyway about IQ (127 and 170 and so on). That is in my opinion just a number to indicate how good you are in solving IQ tests. the score depends on a bunch of factors: mood, motivation, self-confidence, to say any.

When I was at high school I was very emotional and if I had been obliged to make a test the result would have been surely poor because I had trouble in concentrating on a task. When I started university and clomipramine my score was more than 165. So am I clever or am I dumb ?

To complicate the picture ... I felt dumb when I was on clomipramine while sharp when I was off !

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? cybercafe

Posted by girlygirl on October 18, 2003, at 15:25:59

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2003, at 16:24:49

> > i do think iq tests are a load of my hoop,testing people on anything and everything to ascertain what label to slap on them,but yeah there does seem to be some kind of thing going on there,bewtween say high iqs and mental illness.at school the kids who had add seemed to have higher iqs,i know mine came out something like 177,which was great cos instead of them having justification in that i was thick,and thats the reason i coukdnt sit still for their classes,it was the other way round.im sure thats the case with a lotof kids.
>
>
> do any of you guys have a suggestion on the type of career that would suite someone who is very intelligent but has big problems with concentration?
>

perfect career for high intelligence/short attention span is journalism! Take my word for it! I've been a news reporter for the past year (before that I was a student or in clerical jobs) and it's really helped pull me out of a lingering depression. It'd be impossible to do if you were in an acute depression but if you're coming out of one it's an amazing way to learn social skills *really* quickly (which I desperately needed to do and didn't find antidepressants or therapy helped with). Because you're a) playing a role and b) in a position of power to some extent, it's a lot less frightening than when it's just *you*. And cos there's all those deadlines there's no room for procrastination. Plus, all journalists are mad one way or another so you can get away with it. I'd recommend it to anyone! GG

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by cybercafe on October 18, 2003, at 18:26:15

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by Francesco on October 18, 2003, at 12:34:24

> I think there is a correlation. if you're strange when you're a child you tend to see the world in a different manner, to feel detached from others and therefore to start *thinking* (in the attempt to solve your problems). on the other side if you feel connected with the rest of the world (mom and dad and so on) you have no need to wonder yourself about anything.

agreed... any tips on how to feel connected again? get a couple girlfriends?


> also the opposite seems true. if you're very clever people will find you strange (most people have an average IQ, by definition) and that could bring mental problems.

i used to think i was stupid when i was growing up because everything would seem an oversimplication to me, and whenever i asked questions people just thought i was stupid for needing to ask so many questions ... i can even remember teachers getting upset with me for producing complicated mathematical equations (not making incorrect assumptions and simplifying)..... weird.. !!

though i think if you are insecure you encourage people to treat you badly ...... unless they are insecure too

... i hear psychopaths (the law-abiding kind) have the most fun ......


> I wouldn't talk anyway about IQ (127 and 170 and so on). That is in my opinion just a number to indicate how good you are in solving IQ tests. the score depends on a bunch of factors: mood, motivation, self-confidence, to say any.

i have had the same thought.... but i think people other than me have rather consistent moods, motivations and self-confidence


> When I was at high school I was very emotional and if I had been obliged to make a test the result would have been surely poor because I had trouble in concentrating on a task. When I started university and clomipramine my score was more than 165. So am I clever or am I dumb ?

1) you're obviously clever
2) if you're not clever it's still in your best interest to see yourself as clever

you can't give an average joe a drug and have him score 165 on an IQ test.... if you could, that drug would be selling quite well i'd imagine :)

i'd like to think that anyone who a) is a genius and, b) has been toughened up by having to deal with a mental illness, should be in one of the best positions to succeed in life (however you may define success) ...
potential + wisedom + fearlessness = unstoppable character

> To complicate the picture ... I felt dumb when I was on clomipramine while sharp when I was off !

ah yes...... but who can trust feelings?

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by cybercafe on October 18, 2003, at 18:28:07

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? cybercafe, posted by girlygirl on October 18, 2003, at 15:25:59

> > > i do think iq tests are a load of my hoop,testing people on anything and everything to ascertain what label to slap on them,but yeah there does seem to be some kind of thing going on there,bewtween say high iqs and mental illness.at school the kids who had add seemed to have higher iqs,i know mine came out something like 177,which was great cos instead of them having justification in that i was thick,and thats the reason i coukdnt sit still for their classes,it was the other way round.im sure thats the case with a lotof kids.
> >
> >
> > do any of you guys have a suggestion on the type of career that would suite someone who is very intelligent but has big problems with concentration?
> >
>
> perfect career for high intelligence/short attention span is journalism! Take my word for it! I've been a news reporter for the past year (before that I was a student or in clerical jobs) and it's really helped pull me out of a lingering depression. It'd be impossible to do if you were in an acute depression but if you're coming out of one it's an amazing way to learn social skills *really* quickly (which I desperately needed to do and didn't find antidepressants or therapy helped with). Because you're a) playing a role and b) in a position of power to some extent, it's a lot less frightening than when it's just *you*. And cos there's all those deadlines there's no room for procrastination. Plus, all journalists are mad one way or another so you can get away with it. I'd recommend it to anyone! GG


thank you for replying :)

is there any easy way to break into journalism?

and would the fact that my perspective on everything is totally out of whack be a disadvantage ? :)

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by girlygirl on October 18, 2003, at 18:52:43

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by cybercafe on October 18, 2003, at 18:28:07

> thank you for replying :)
>
> is there any easy way to break into journalism?
>
> and would the fact that my perspective on everything is totally out of whack be a disadvantage ? :)

HIya - are you in the US? Cos if so, I have no idea if it's hard to break into or not! In the UK it's not, as long as you can get some bank to lend you a few grand for a training course! (the fools, the fools..)

Perspective out of whack? They won't give you a job if it isn't ;-) honest, being a journalist has made me feel positively sane compared to most of my colleagues..

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by Momof1BPKid on October 19, 2003, at 0:18:27

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by girlygirl on October 18, 2003, at 18:52:43

My son was IQ of 125 on WISCIII at age 9 1/2 but his EQ? probably very very low. He maxes out those standardized tests alot of the time, or scores extremely high in the 95-99%tile. one time he got to take it alone in a room by himself cause he was so distracting with his hyperactivity to others. When he did it alone in a room, He got every single answer right and this is supposed to be one of the hardest tests in the nation as far as standardized testing, they give it every couple of years in a state that is highly recognized for academics and its public education. I think others might distract him, he really had no motivation to do stuff he is not interested in. I've read alot about mania and creative genius, he does stuff like plays his musical instrument when he is agitated or manic. I am not sure if homeschooling would help or hurt. He needs socialization, but cant seem to get along , but he really wants to be around kids and make friends, but his behavior limits that for him. at the same time, he has had some awful teachers who were borderline abusive towards him in their reactions to his "excessive movement" where they would do things leave him in the hallway the entire day and embarrass him in front of peers by tossing him out and throwing all his stuff at him, this has caused him have so many problems. He does great with some teachers, but he is basically just a kid who doesnt like for people to treat him bad and when they do look out his defense mechanisms come up quickly. I always see those bumper stickers "mean people suck" I couldnt agree more.
I'll never forget what the one teacher said to me, who sat with him while he took a test alone. they told me, "He answered the questions quicker than I could as an adult and a teacher, and they were all correct answers, but even if he is a genius, he has to comply and not be distracting and disruptive" I remember telling his therapist this and the therapist said "yes they just want him zombified. drugged and him not to be himself and just sit there and shut up, basically brain dead, how convenient for them"


Public schools are wonderful arent they? :)

I guess as him mom I really hope a day comes when he is so successful (I KNOW THIS WILL HAPPEN!) and the one time where i will tolerate an insult would be when he is somebody "important" in their eyes( he already is in my eyes!) and some magazine of tv station will quote him and he will say "this is to a group of some of my past public school teachers... YOU really bite! :)" sorry
!

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by francesco on October 19, 2003, at 4:35:49

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by cybercafe on October 18, 2003, at 18:26:15

> agreed... any tips on how to feel connected again? get a couple girlfriends?

unfortunately to get a couple of girlfriends one has to get first a couple of Klonopin. it's a vicious circle ;-)

> also the opposite seems true. if you're very clever people will find you strange (most people have an average IQ, by definition) and that could bring mental problems.

I can understand how you feel. I was luckier because when I was at elementary school I was treated like a kind of genius by my father and my teacher. I think I have internalized this belief and this helped me with the self-esteem in the department of cleverness even when I was depressed and completely dumb. But of course this brought me a lot of problems in other fields ...

Anyway I can easily understand the sensation of seeing a lot of problems when most of people don't see anything ... a partial solution for me was to find a couple of friends that can appreciate my being sharp and weirdo at the same time ... but it was not easy at all (and your boss isn't likely to be one of them ;-)

though i think if you are insecure you encourage people to treat you badly ...... unless they are insecure too

this is dramaticaly true. I had been "mobbed" by my phd-tutor for a couple of months. one day I took an anafranil pill and I shouted at him for half an hour. I wouldn't say this solution was elegant ... but now he's a little more careful when he talks to me ;-)

... i hear psychopaths (the law-abiding kind) have the most fun ......

No Super-Ego at all just Id. Lot of fun : )

i'd like to think that anyone who a) is a genius and, b) has been toughened up by having to deal with a mental illness, should be in one of the best positions to succeed in life (however you may define success) ...

this really thrills me. I have had the same thought ! I think also that mental illness make you more empthatic toward 'week' people ... you have been there so you can understand them ... maybe mental illness makes you left-oriented ;-)

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by cybercafe on October 19, 2003, at 4:39:16

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by Momof1BPKid on October 19, 2003, at 0:18:27

> My son was IQ of 125 on WISCIII at age 9 1/2 but his EQ? probably very very low. He maxes out those standardized tests alot of the time, or scores extremely high in the 95-99%tile. one time he got to take it alone in a room by himself cause he was so distracting with his hyperactivity to others. When he did it alone in a room, He got every single answer right and this is supposed to be one of the hardest tests in the nation as far as standardized testing, they give it every couple of years in a state that is highly recognized for academics and its public education. I think others might distract him, he really had no motivation to do stuff he is not interested in. I've read alot about mania and creative genius, he does stuff like plays his musical instrument when he is agitated or manic. I am not sure if homeschooling would help or hurt. He needs socialization, but cant seem to get along , but he really wants to be around kids and make friends, but his behavior limits that for him. at the same time, he has had some awful teachers who were borderline abusive towards him in their reactions to his "excessive movement" where they would do things leave him in the hallway the entire day and embarrass him in front of peers by tossing him out and throwing all his stuff at him, this has caused him have so many problems. He does great with some teachers, but he is basically just a kid who doesnt like for people to treat him bad and when they do look out his defense mechanisms come up quickly. I always see those bumper stickers "mean people suck" I couldnt agree more.
> I'll never forget what the one teacher said to me, who sat with him while he took a test alone. they told me, "He answered the questions quicker than I could as an adult and a teacher, and they were all correct answers, but even if he is a genius, he has to comply and not be distracting and disruptive" I remember telling his therapist this and the therapist said "yes they just want him zombified. drugged and him not to be himself and just sit there and shut up, basically brain dead, how convenient for them"
>
>
> Public schools are wonderful arent they? :)
>
> I guess as him mom I really hope a day comes when he is so successful (I KNOW THIS WILL HAPPEN!) and the one time where i will tolerate an insult would be when he is somebody "important" in their eyes( he already is in my eyes!) and some magazine of tv station will quote him and he will say "this is to a group of some of my past public school teachers... YOU really bite! :)" sorry
> !

be careful... i tried the same thing.... but those teachers retire quick....... not a single one is left in my high school (graduated 6 years ago?)

but for me it was more anxiety making me put up with abuse from teachers, whereas thanks to medication now i have the confidence to let them know their abuse is NOT appreciated


i know it's immature but damn it would just be so therapeutic to yell at and intimidate some teachers and see how they like it ...

it would also be nice to go back to the good teachers and say "you're cool man, you really helped me"............. turns out one principal who was sympathetic (didn't expel me) had his son turn out to be schizophrenic recently :(

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? MichelleMyBelle

Posted by Larry Hoover on October 19, 2003, at 14:15:52

In reply to CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by MichelleMyBelle on May 11, 2003, at 1:12:46

> I'M JUST CURIOUS, SO I'M THROWING A QUESTION OUT THERE FOR ANYONE TO GIVE FEEBACK TO. I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED THIS MYSELF, BUT IS IT POSSIBLE THAT PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS HAVE HIGHER IQ'S?

I'd answer the question this way.....certain traits that predispose to mental illness also predispose towards unconventional or creative thinking, hallmarks of what some define as intelligence. It all hinges on how you define each of these terms, of course.

Here's a recent study to consider:

J Pers Soc Psychol. 2003 Sep;85(3):499-506.

Decreased latent inhibition is associated with increased creative achievement in high-functioning individuals.

Carson SH, Peterson JB, Higgins DM.

Department of Psychology, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138, USA. carson@wjh.harvard.edu

Reductions in latent inhibition (LI), the capacity to screen from conscious awareness stimuli previously experienced as irrelevant, have been generally associated with the tendency towards psychosis. However, "failure" to screen out previously irrelevant stimuli might also hypothetically contribute to original thinking, particularly in combination with high IQ. Meta-analysis of two studies, conducted on youthful high-IQ samples. demonstrated that high lifetime creative achievers had significantly lower LI scores than low creative achievers (r(effect size) = .31, p = .0003, one-tailed). Eminent creative achievers (participants under 21 years who reported unusually high scores in a single domain of creative achievement) were 7 times more likely to have low rather than high LI scores, chi2 (1, N = 25) = 10.69, phi = .47. p = .003.


In simple terms, latent inhibition is the unconscious suppression of any stimulus. All organisms do this to some extent. Only stimuli that bypass the "filters" actually make it into consciousness. Highly intelligent people tend to filter out less information from external stimuli; of course, they must also process that extra information, in order to make sense of it, so intelligence seems to be the product of both reduced latent inhibition (i.e. higher data flow into the brain), and the capacity to make sense of it all. Studies of the brain function of high-IQ individuals show regions of brain activity not seen in other brains, even when attending to simple tasks (e.g. watching a sit-com on TV).

Now, reduced latent inhibition is also considered to be a contributing factor for schizophrenia. One model has it that the brain cannot cope with the onslaught of stimuli, and it decompensates via hallucinations and so on.

There is yet another factor to consider. All people show reduced latent inhibition when under psychological stress......to a point. A little bit of pressure sharpens the intellect, but too much (an individual characteristic, how much is too much), and you may have a nervous breakdown or collapse into depression. This is one model for the environmental triggering of mood swings, as seen in bipolar disorder.

I think the correlations of certain forms of mental illness, intelligence, and creativity, are real. I happen to fit the model myself. ;-)

Lar

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by Mariposa on October 19, 2003, at 14:37:21

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS? MichelleMyBelle, posted by Larry Hoover on October 19, 2003, at 14:15:52

>
> I think the correlations of certain forms of mental illness, intelligence, and creativity, are real. I happen to fit the model myself. ;-)
>
> Lar

I would have to say include me as well....Nat. Honor Soc., top 5% in SAT, top 3% graduating class, etc. DX - Depressed and anti-social.

~~~8|8

 

Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?

Posted by cybercafe on October 19, 2003, at 15:15:44

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by francesco on October 19, 2003, at 4:35:49

> > agreed... any tips on how to feel connected again? get a couple girlfriends?
>
> unfortunately to get a couple of girlfriends one has to get first a couple of Klonopin. it's a vicious circle ;-)

i remember on klonopin feeling too tired to keep on a decent conversation.... lorazepam works much better for me

> though i think if you are insecure you encourage people to treat you badly ...... unless they are insecure too
>
> this is dramaticaly true. I had been "mobbed" by my phd-tutor for a couple of months. one day I took an anafranil pill and I shouted at him for half an hour. I wouldn't say this solution was elegant ... but now he's a little more careful when he talks to me ;-)

haha... yeah... when you feel good about yourself people tend to treat you with respect.... but then at that point it doesn't really matter because you have confidence and aren't too sensitive to what they say :)


> ... i hear psychopaths (the law-abiding kind) have the most fun ......
>
> No Super-Ego at all just Id. Lot of fun : )

guilt and fear suck.... oooh i can't wait to be back on parnate again


> i'd like to think that anyone who a) is a genius and, b) has been toughened up by having to deal with a mental illness, should be in one of the best positions to succeed in life (however you may define success) ...
>
> this really thrills me. I have had the same thought ! I think also that mental illness make you more empthatic toward 'week' people ... you have been there so you can understand them ... maybe mental illness makes you left-oriented ;-)

yeah... of course this works best when you have actually managed to cure yourself :)

left-oriented? you mean left brained, like analytical and good at languages ?? :)
hmmm... can i say i can speak 14 languages if i only know about 30 words in each? :)
<goes off on wild tangent> ..... yeah how can you go through life without knowing how to say "hey what's up?" in EVERY language?

 

Re:Correlation between IQ and mental illness?

Posted by shar on October 19, 2003, at 17:13:36

In reply to Re: CORRELATION BETWEEN IQ AND MENTAL ILLNESS?, posted by cybercafe on October 19, 2003, at 15:15:44

Sorry, y'all, I just couldn't stand the shouting.....

:)
Shar

 

Re:Correlation between IQ and mental illness?

Posted by cybercafe on October 19, 2003, at 18:21:11

In reply to Re:Correlation between IQ and mental illness?, posted by shar on October 19, 2003, at 17:13:36

> Sorry, y'all, I just couldn't stand the shouting.....
>
> :)
> Shar

hey, nice to see you back, how have you been doing?


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