Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 270386

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 46. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Long term use of AD;s and Me

Posted by ian24 on October 17, 2003, at 19:36:59

Ok, I have been on anti- depressants for like 5 years. Is this frying my brain? They say it doesnt but also that they dont know what it does long term. I am always looking for a new worry so hre it is. And if it is frying my brain DONT TELL ME lol

Oh and I quit smoking 4 days ago :)

 

Re: Long term use of AD;s and Me

Posted by stjames on October 17, 2003, at 19:45:23

In reply to Long term use of AD;s and Me, posted by ian24 on October 17, 2003, at 19:36:59

Try this on for size; Depression causes brain damage.

 

Re: Long term use of AD;s and Me

Posted by caroline on October 19, 2003, at 3:24:30

In reply to Long term use of AD;s and Me, posted by ian24 on October 17, 2003, at 19:36:59

Hi,

I can appreciate your concern, but I think it's all about quality of life. I've been on AD's for 12 years now, and I don't ever intend to come off them. I want a life I can enjoy and feel grateful for. That is what they have given me. Without them I barely had a life, and what I did have was painful, like walking through a world littered with broken glass rather than dust particles!

I would never advise anyone else to take my approach, which is that I'm on them for life. I would only suggest you assess your life with and without them and make a decision that feels right for you. St James is quite right, BTW, depression can seriously damage your brain, as can OCD and anxiety.

Best, Caroline

 

Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure? stjames

Posted by Hanks on October 20, 2003, at 0:09:02

In reply to Re: Long term use of AD;s and Me, posted by stjames on October 17, 2003, at 19:45:23

Depression causes brain damage!!
Is there a scientific evidence to authenticate this claim?

Determined, we can overcome any kind of depression without medicating our brain and by doing so we are strengthening our brain. Those living in the slums of third world have enough reasons to get depressed, still they are not bothered to waste their time over this mysterious illness. So I should think they are the strongest people around with awesome brain powers. In our world we can seldom survive a week without electricity, but some of those living in the remote hills of Peshawar (Pakistan) have yet to know what is electricity!!
Depression is an urban illness.

 

Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure?

Posted by stjames on October 20, 2003, at 1:02:08

In reply to Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure? stjames, posted by Hanks on October 20, 2003, at 0:09:02


> Is there a scientific evidence to authenticate this claim?
>


Since it has been well reported, look it up yourself. Troll elsewhere, too.

 

Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure?

Posted by stjames on October 20, 2003, at 1:06:32

In reply to Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure?, posted by stjames on October 20, 2003, at 1:02:08

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=depression+brain+damage&btnG=Google+Search

 

Re: please be civil stjames

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 20, 2003, at 22:43:21

In reply to Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure?, posted by stjames on October 20, 2003, at 1:02:08

> Troll elsewhere, too.

Thanks for helping to educate people here, but please don't jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.

Bob

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... stjames

Posted by Hanks on October 21, 2003, at 1:08:47

In reply to Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure?, posted by stjames on October 20, 2003, at 1:02:08


Thanks for the links.

But even after researching with all those documentation, some doubts remain.
Is it really untreated manic depression that caused all these brain abnormalities ? If untreated manic depression causes brain damage, the same magnitude of brain destruction has seen in those patients treated with medications. So isn't something missing here?
When there were no drugs available to treat depression, many awesome brains still survived with this mysterious illness. Newton, Lincoln... Why the disease didn't make their brains a mush?

Why there are a lot still in this support group to find a perfect fit for their causes?

Wouldn't it be better to fight depression without the aid of chemicals as our ancestors did? Like turning those negative symptoms into productivity ? (For example if you wake very early in the morning, you will have a great deal of time left to do something more than what you usually do)

Why Edronax (reboxetine) failed to get FDA approval ? Because neither reboxetine nor fluoxetine appeared superior to placebo in the treatment of depression according to one study. Shouldn't we have to read something between lines here ?
Yes. Depression is a created illness, and antidepressants are a created necessity.
Thanks
Peter Hanks

 

Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure? Hanks

Posted by ace on October 21, 2003, at 3:26:46

In reply to Re: Depression Causes Brain Damage ? Are You Sure? stjames, posted by Hanks on October 20, 2003, at 0:09:02


> Depression is an urban illness.

Those people who live in poorer countries are, in many ways, luckier than us who live in these urban parts. They have a sense of identity (religion, family), are motivated to work (or starv!), and havent the TV to bombard them with contradictory and asinine messages.

Kids watching people blow up, people doing drugs on TV....kids having to form identity through illegal activity because there is no decent role models, kids being told contradictory messages, kids being told little by way of morals....all this stuff aint good for the biochemistry. Because all this stuff IS biochemistry (a belief, when reduced, is, I believe, a wave of depolarization)

Ace.

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ......

Posted by Mariposa on October 21, 2003, at 8:15:29

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... stjames, posted by Hanks on October 21, 2003, at 1:08:47

I would have to say my depression is created by lack of a decent nite's sleep, ever, and then having to get up and go to work anyway. My depression is created from my hormones being out of whack because I'm peri-menopausal. Used to be I could just deal w/it....have been depressed most of my life because of insomnia, but I managed somehow w/o drugs, *pull your self up by the bootstraps*!

Now that I am approaching menopause, I have NO control over my emotions...I explode for no reason *where is my hairbrush?* *why are you driving so slow?*

Without my meds at this point in my life I would be a basket case, divorced, fired from my job, etc.

If all of this has been *CREATED* for me I want to thank who ever is responsible ( sarcasm INTENDED here)!!!~~~8|8

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 8:40:28

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... stjames, posted by Hanks on October 21, 2003, at 1:08:47

> Wouldn't it be better to fight depression without the aid of chemicals as our ancestors did? Like turning those negative symptoms into productivity ? (For example if you wake very early in the morning, you will have a great deal of time left to do something more than what you usually do)
>
A fair number of our ancestors fought depression by killing themselves. Or drinking themselves into oblivion. Or taking it out on their families. Overall, I can't recommend some of those methods.

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ......

Posted by stjames on October 21, 2003, at 10:27:47

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... stjames, posted by Hanks on October 21, 2003, at 1:08:47

Why the disease didn't make their brains a mush?

Huh ? Huh ? Huh ? actually, nevermind.

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ......

Posted by djmmm on October 21, 2003, at 11:36:30

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... stjames, posted by Hanks on October 21, 2003, at 1:08:47

>
> Thanks for the links.
>
> But even after researching with all those documentation, some doubts remain.
> Is it really untreated manic depression that caused all these brain abnormalities ? If untreated manic depression causes brain damage, the same magnitude of brain destruction has seen in those patients treated with medications. So isn't something missing here?
> When there were no drugs available to treat depression, many awesome brains still survived with this mysterious illness. Newton, Lincoln... Why the disease didn't make their brains a mush?

For what it's worth..Lincoln DID take medication for "melancholy" called "blue mass"...but unfortunately it contained high levels of mercury, which exacerbated his condition...and for lack of a better word, turned his brain into "mush"

Newton also took medication for depression, this is a well established fact.

>
> Why there are a lot still in this support group to find a perfect fit for their causes?
>
> Wouldn't it be better to fight depression without the aid of chemicals as our ancestors did? Like turning those negative symptoms into productivity ? (For example if you wake very early in the morning, you will have a great deal of time left to do something more than what you usually do)

Our ancestors went to herbalists, and shamen...
our "ancestors" used a variety of medications derived from natural sources...the very medications we use today are based on naturally occuring substances.

>
> Why Edronax (reboxetine) failed to get FDA approval ? Because neither reboxetine nor fluoxetine appeared superior to placebo in the treatment of depression according to one study. Shouldn't we have to read something between lines here ?

The FDA did not approve reboxetine because the studies were performed outside of the US.

> Yes. Depression is a created illness, and antidepressants are a created necessity.
> Thanks
> Peter Hanks

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by Penny on October 21, 2003, at 12:07:05

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... stjames, posted by Hanks on October 21, 2003, at 1:08:47

How do you think herbs such as Kava Kava and St. John's Wort became so popular? Because they were used in a time before medication was available. Because people have always suffered from depression.

>Wouldn't it be better to fight depression without the aid of chemicals as our ancestors did? Like turning those negative symptoms into productivity ? (For example if you wake very early in the morning, you will have a great deal of time left to do something more than what you usually do)

Great - use that time productively. IF that is possible. But when you are suffering from extreme lack of sleep b/c you've been sleeping only 3 hours a night due to insomnia as a result of depression, and your brain isn't functioning clearly enough to allow you to do anything, and you can't stop thinking about ways to kill yourself, then what?

People in all walks of life suffer from depression and other mental illnesses. There are just different ways of dealing with it - some choose suicide. Some self-medicate with drugs and/or alcohol. Some are fortunate enough to be able to seek help from a health care provider.

I certainly WISH depression was something I could just 'get over.' Wow. Because I wish this on myself. I LIKE trying every medication on the market and pouring money into therapy and meds, and I LIKED ending up in the hospital for a week to keep me safe. Oh - and I remember not being on meds. I remember the depression BEFORE I started taking antidepressants, before my brain was tainted by all of these chemicals I keep pumping into myself. And I remember coming out of the depression as a result of taking Effexor, after trying to treat myself with St. John's Wort, which didn't work for me. I remember coming home before I started antidepressants and wishing I had a gun so I could kill myself. And the Effexor mellowed me out. I got better, for a while. Then I made the mistake of stopping the medication - thinking I didn't need it anymore - and the depression came back.

What I know is that denying the problem doesn't fix matters. And telling people to 'get over it' or 'just do something' doesn't work either. If people REALLY had a choice - do you seriously think they would CHOOSE to be depressed? If it was as easy as making the most of waking up early and other negative symptoms, do you think people would be depressed? I know I, for one, would not.

I tell people who do not understand depression and the seriousness of it one thing: I hope they never really understand, b/c if they did, it would mean they had been there. And I wouldn't wish depression on my worst enemy. There is nothing worse than your brain turning against you.

P

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Penny

Posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:18:32

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks, posted by Penny on October 21, 2003, at 12:07:05

Yes, Fighting depression without the aid of chemicals in a "Brave new World" will not be that fun. Doing so means we are simply losing our illusions which we hardly wish to. Our living environment makes us weak,vulnerable and quite deceptively we mask our debility by naming them as depression, generalized anxiety disorder....We have gone so far almost to the point that there is no return.
When there were no viagras available to treat erectile dysfunction, Masters and Johnson treated the disorders with what was available at that time(Definitely not with chemicals or herbs) According to Masters and Johnson 80% of erectile dysunction are of a psychological origin and through extensive behavioural and psychotherapy they found 60 to 70% of success at that time. Then comes viagra and all of sudden those conventional theories are being overturned. Psychological origin is conveniently being replaced by the term physiological origin and the business is going well. And the success rate of viagra is still not more than 70%. If our pioneers were wrong, they shouldn't have met with a success rate of more than 20%. What is missing here?

How many patients are still there in this board to find an expedient fix to their causes even after decades of experiments with different chemicals? If we can endure what drugs inflict upon us as loss of efficacy and ultimately relentless sufferings why can't we just try a drug free period to educate our brain to cope with what we call depression, anxiety, panic...?

Depression is a self limiting disease. If untreated it will resolve in six to nine months. Antidepressants can shorten this period and psychotherapy is equally effective. This is what I read as a basic theory of depression. How many of us have bothered with these basics?

True, theories will come over and over again and that day will not be too far when a new theory will force us to medicate a foetus with psychotropics to save a generation from debilitating psychological disorders. We are all falling prey to some superbrains with our vulnerability.

"Stand a little out of my son" Was the answer Diogenes gave to Alexander the Great. We have been trained to answer "Stand a little close to me until sunset"
There lies the difference.
Hanks

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Dinah

Posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:26:07

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 8:40:28


So, suicide has ceased to exist. Alcohoism left our society for good. All because we have some sort of chemicals in the form of capsules and pills. Great !!

Will we ever be able to get rid of this self-deception?
Peter Hanks.

 

Redirect: fighting depression without chemicals

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 22, 2003, at 2:20:36

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Penny, posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:18:32

> Yes, Fighting depression without the aid of chemicals in a "Brave new World" will not be that fun...

I'd like discussion about fighting depression without the aid of chemicals to be redirected to one of the other boards here, thanks.

Bob

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by Elle2021 on October 22, 2003, at 4:54:17

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Penny, posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:18:32

I do not conclude that you have ever suffered from any type of mental illness. Have you ever had a panic attack? If you have, and you have been able to deal with it without medication, then great. But, if you have never experienced depression or anxiety, then you can't really make an informed judgement on how it affects someone's life or how it should be treated. I assure you that if I could "choose" to "get over it" and get on with my life I most certainly would. I spent a number of years trying to treat it without medication, guess what, I didn't have any success. Getting up and out like my forefathers never helped either. Elle

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by Mariposa on October 22, 2003, at 6:38:32

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Penny, posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:18:32

After reading your posts I too must conclude you have never suffered. And expound away on your theories and fancy mumbo-jumbo, but the fact is you will NOT find any converts here, and you are basically wasting your time and ours.

Hope not to see you on the flip side!~~~8|8

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ......

Posted by Mariposa on October 22, 2003, at 6:57:27

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks, posted by Mariposa on October 22, 2003, at 6:38:32

On second thought, Mr. Rable Rouser, I conclude you are just trying to give us more grief rather than offering support, you don't really care about our situations, and are just basically calling us all *stupid* instead of being understanding or compassionate. You offer us nothing to assist us in our struggles.~~~8|8

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by Penny on October 22, 2003, at 8:01:46

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Penny, posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:18:32

> How many patients are still there in this board to find an expedient fix to their causes even after decades of experiments with different chemicals? If we can endure what drugs inflict upon us as loss of efficacy and ultimately relentless sufferings why can't we just try a drug free period to educate our brain to cope with what we call depression, anxiety, panic...?

I've tried the drug-free period, and, guess what? My depression relapsed.


> Depression is a self limiting disease. If untreated it will resolve in six to nine months. Antidepressants can shorten this period and psychotherapy is equally effective. This is what I read as a basic theory of depression. How many of us have bothered with these basics?

Six to nine months. Great - if it was ONCE and not REPEATEDLY. If EACH EPISODE lasts that long, and you have RECURRENT EPISODES, then you spend your entire life battling this disease. Or it becomes 'self-limiting' through suicide. Take your pick.

Anyone who doesn't understand the reality of depression and other mental illnesses needs to spend a week in the psych ward at their local hospital. Six to nine months? Tell that to the elderly lady who had been suffering from recurrent depression since the birth of her son - she's now 78. Or the woman who would be the first to tell you that her life is wonderful - so why does she always want to kill herself? She's constantly in and out of the hospital, and NOTHING works for her. No, medication doesn't work. ECT hasn't worked. Therapy hasn't worked. NOTHING. One day, I fear, she will succeed in killing herself. A wonderful woman with so much to offer the world, except for the horrible disease that keeps her trapped.

It did teach me that I'm not alone, it taught me that there are others who have it worse than me, and, as the elderly lady said to me, in all seriousness, "Unless you've been there, you don't know, do you?"

I suspect you've never been there. And that's okay. Continue to think what you want to think. That's YOUR reality. Depression is mine - and I didn't choose it.

P

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by Emme on October 22, 2003, at 11:52:08

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Dinah, posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:26:07

I am curious as to why you are posting on this board. This is an open forum and of course anyone is welcome to partcipate. But I get the impression that you have come to attempt to get us to stop taking medication. Why is that? Have you or someone you know had a bad experience with medication? Have you had problems with depression and/or anxiety and been able to imnprove with therapy/lifestyle changes alone (if so, that is good but doesn't work for everyone)? Your theory that depression is not a real illness makes me think you don't have direct experience with mood disorders. Is that the case?

Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you are coming from, how you found this forum and why you decided to start posting here, what kind of help or support you need from us, etc.



 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by KimberlyDi on October 22, 2003, at 13:19:25

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... stjames, posted by Hanks on October 21, 2003, at 1:08:47

Well, No. We don't have to read between the lines. Between the lines exists a space. You see what you want to see.

I can't say anything nice in reply to your opinion. Silence does not imply agreement.

 

Amen Penny. Well said. (nm) Penny

Posted by KimberlyDi on October 22, 2003, at 13:24:16

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks, posted by Penny on October 21, 2003, at 12:07:05

 

Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Hanks

Posted by KimberlyDi on October 22, 2003, at 13:55:08

In reply to Re: Depression is a created illness and ...... Penny, posted by Hanks on October 22, 2003, at 1:18:32


"Doing so means we are simply losing OUR illusions which we hardly wish to. OUR living environment makes us weak, vulnerable and quite deceptively we mask OUR debility by naming them as depression, generalized anxiety disorder... WE have gone so far almost to the point that there is no return."

What's this with the WE and OUR? Once again, your opinion. Nice world that everyone has a forum to broadcast their opinions, isn't it?

Yet, as intelligence goes up, the ability to relate to human beings on an emotional level goes down. The belief of intellectual superiority can mask quite a few disorders by itself.

au revoir prof hank...


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