Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 269998

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Should I look into an EEG?

Posted by john1022 on October 16, 2003, at 10:54:28

I was just wondering if I should ask my pdoc to refer me for an EEG.

I have had some pretty severe, numerous reactions to both Effexor and Elavil. They both send me into deep depression (when it is only mild to being with), give me extreme anxiety (when I have none to begin with), make me twitch and jolt in my sleep, make my ears ache, pop and ring, jaws click, give me nightmares, make me lose all concentration, make songs play in my head all day and all night and give me extreme insomnia.

These symptoms slowly go away when I stop taking the meds, but the only problem is I cannot go to sleep whatsoever without a sleep med. I had this problem in the past and it was corrected with Effexor, now the Effexor and Elavil have both given me these extreme, opposite reactions to the meds. Any ideas?

Obviously this is not a normal reaction. Would an EEG be a consideration to find out anything about what is going on?

What is the diff. between an EEG, an Amb EEG and a video EEG and which should I ask for? Any help is appreciated. Thanks

 

Re: Should I look into an EEG?

Posted by Robert Fairburn on October 16, 2003, at 12:03:20

In reply to Should I look into an EEG?, posted by john1022 on October 16, 2003, at 10:54:28

I would not bother with an EEG ( I cant see any harm in it ) I think that you should consider trying an SSRI instead of the drugs that you have been taking. You might want to consider Paxil or Luvox, I wouldn't try Prozac

Thats my thoughts

Cheers Robert

> I was just wondering if I should ask my pdoc to refer me for an EEG.
>
> I have had some pretty severe, numerous reactions to both Effexor and Elavil. They both send me into deep depression (when it is only mild to being with), give me extreme anxiety (when I have none to begin with), make me twitch and jolt in my sleep, make my ears ache, pop and ring, jaws click, give me nightmares, make me lose all concentration, make songs play in my head all day and all night and give me extreme insomnia.
>
> These symptoms slowly go away when I stop taking the meds, but the only problem is I cannot go to sleep whatsoever without a sleep med. I had this problem in the past and it was corrected with Effexor, now the Effexor and Elavil have both given me these extreme, opposite reactions to the meds. Any ideas?
>
> Obviously this is not a normal reaction. Would an EEG be a consideration to find out anything about what is going on?
>
> What is the diff. between an EEG, an Amb EEG and a video EEG and which should I ask for? Any help is appreciated. Thanks

 

Re: Should I look into an EEG?

Posted by john1022 on October 16, 2003, at 13:31:26

In reply to Re: Should I look into an EEG?, posted by Robert Fairburn on October 16, 2003, at 12:03:20

Thanks for the advise Robert. I am going to try either Luvox or Lexapro next (possibly Remeron)

The main sympton of my problem is not being able to fall asleep. It is not because me thinking of things or anxiety, it is definitely some kind of chemical imbalance where my sleep won't trigger.

Effexor fixed this problem twice in the past. So my question is, does Effexor cause 5HT2 antagonism and is that how it made my sleep get back to normal?

Do these other drugs (Remeron, Luvox, Paxil, Lexapro) have 5HT2 antagonism action?

Is 5HT2 antagonism what I really need in the case of not being able to sleep (although they might cause more restlessness at first before correcting the imbalance)?

Or do I want something that doesn't antagonize 5HT2?

Are there natural methods/herbs/nutrients that antagonize 5HT2?

I know these are a lot of questions, but I would appreciate any help. Thanks

 

insomnia, Elavil, Remeron

Posted by zeugma on October 17, 2003, at 6:51:32

In reply to Re: Should I look into an EEG?, posted by john1022 on October 16, 2003, at 13:31:26

Effexor doesn't cause 5-HT 2 antagonism, but Elavil does. 5-HT 2 antagonism is supposed to be good for sleep, less as a sleep inducer than as a regulator of sleep architecture (it lengthens time spent in deep sleep). I have a good friend who was having easily disrupted sleep, not insomnia, on Effexor, tried trazodone (a 5-HT 2 antagonist) and is now much less likely to be awakened by her cat in the middle of the night. It sounds like your problems is more with insomnia itself. Theoretically, Elavil would help you with that, but you had a paradoxical reaction to it. Remeron is a 5-HT 2 antagonist and also a powerful H1 antagonist; H1 antagonism seems to be more involved with the initiation of sleep itself, rather than sleep quality. Elavil is one of the most powerful H1 antagonists in existence, but perhaps its effect on serotonin reuptake caused your paradoxical reaction to it. Remeron is also a powerful H1 antagonist. The difference between Remeron and Elavil is that Remeron blocks 5-HT receptors without blocking reuptake, while Elavil does both. Maybe Remeron is worth a shot. Moreover, in my admittedly less-than-authoritative guide to AD's, Remeron doesn't list 'ringing in ears' as a common or significant SE, while Elavil does. I have suffered from insomnia for most of my life, so I know how debilitating and just plain unpleasant it is. Good luck what whatever med you try.

 

Re: insomnia, Elavil, Remeron

Posted by john1022 on October 17, 2003, at 8:23:40

In reply to insomnia, Elavil, Remeron, posted by zeugma on October 17, 2003, at 6:51:32

Thanks for the info.

Lexapro and Remeron were my next choices. Although Remeron doesn't list tinnitus as a side effect, RXlist.com has hypercausis and ear pain as one (which I have both had from Effexor and Elavil) so that has me worried. But I think Elavil has them all.

I almost want to try something without the 5HT2 antagonism, because Effexor once worked for me in the past after a few weeks when I absolutely could not go to sleep.

What would be a few options for other AD's or SSRI's without 5HT2 antagonism? I would probably just take an Ativan while they started working, which usually helps get me to sleep (although I can't take them too long)

 

Re: insomnia, Elavil, Remeron

Posted by zeugma on October 17, 2003, at 9:00:29

In reply to Re: insomnia, Elavil, Remeron, posted by john1022 on October 17, 2003, at 8:23:40

None of the SSRI's have any significant 5 HT-2 antagonism. Did you experience tinnitus on SSRI's?

 

Re: insomnia, Elavil, Remeron

Posted by john1022 on October 17, 2003, at 9:16:35

In reply to Re: insomnia, Elavil, Remeron, posted by zeugma on October 17, 2003, at 9:00:29

Thanks. I havn't tried a true "SSRI" yet, but did experience the extreme rises in my tinnitus noise level while on Effexor (SNRI) and Elavil. So far from what I have read and what my doctor has told me, almost every SSRI will aggravate a pre-existing case of tinnitus.

I can deal slightly with a higher level of noise, but I also feel they are going to do the same thing as Effexor and Elavil did by causiung hypercausis (extreme sensitivity in noise) and give me ear aches as if my ears were infected. I have no idea what to do next.

 

Re: insomnia, Elavil, Remeron

Posted by zeugma on October 17, 2003, at 10:22:28

In reply to Re: insomnia, Elavil, Remeron, posted by john1022 on October 17, 2003, at 9:16:35

If your doctors say SSRI's will aggravate a pre-existing case of tinnitus, then it's probably the common property of Elavil and Effexor- serotonin reuptake inhibition- that's causing the ear problems. Remeron would be a better bet then Lexapro in that case. It sounds, though, like it's going to be trial and error at best. Maybe you could try a very low dose of a non-serotonin-reuptake-inhibiting antidepressant and stop it if the noise level gets too high.


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