![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 569 to 593 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 6, 2003, at 17:45:40
In reply to Re: I feel bad..., posted by fluffy on September 6, 2003, at 17:17:35
>>--sleepy, wired, and a weird feeling of being unable to yawn--Is that hyperventillation??
**Funny you should ask. There is a thing called Hyperventilation Syndrome and it causes anxiety, depression, fatigue. It's when, from whatever reason, the Oxygen/CO2 balance is off and Ox is too high and CO2 too low which causes a screwup in intercellular calcium and blood pH. There are a couple books I've read on it because one of my main symptoms when I'm bouncing off the walls is not being able to take a full breath, and then I'll sigh alot. In fact, I do this alot no matter how I'm feeling because my tendency is to hold my breath in when I'm concentrating on something. Now, I've done yoga for years and I know breathing, but I was missing something until I found it described in the books!
Here's how to retrain things:
1. Slowly inhale from the nose from the lower lung area, front and back.
2. Slowly exhale from the nose completely and when you get to the end of the exhale
3. Pinch your nose to retain the air, but try not to tighten around it, just hold the air in for as long as you can. Count how many seconds you can hold it.
4. When you feel like you're going to burst, let the air back in, but do not gasp or gulp the air in, even though you'll want to. As slowly as possible, inhale through the nose (but don't torture yourself) otherwise the gasping/sighing in a big inhale will defeat the purpose.
5. Wait 5 minutes and then do it again. Wait another 5 minutes and do it again.
6. Practice this cycle once a day, gradually increasing the retention time.You'll probably start being able to retain your breath for less than 10 seconds. You're supposed to work up to around 30 seconds while sitting, and then work up to 30 seconds while walking. This is supposed to retrain the breathing reflex and rebalance the pH balance and OX/CO2 ratio. I haven't done it enough to say 'wow, it really works' because I don't remember it when I need it, but when I've done it I've been able to breathe normally, feel less anxious, and it even clears my sinuses. Worth giving a try for a while. I'm going to start doing it again. Wouldn't it be funny if something so simple could help alot?
Anyhow, don't lose the BF. Good luck with your show. Do this breathing retention before and it should really help with the anxiety (as long as you don't pass out - just kidding). - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 6, 2003, at 18:06:27
In reply to Re: Lami/Lith combo » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 6, 2003, at 16:02:25
It sounds like your doctor is going about things with good sense. You never know what might happen when you add the lamictal. It might be just the spark depakote needs. Lithium sure didn't do it for me alone, but when I added the lamictal I felt a difference in a very short time.
Lithium and Dep both have that BDNF quality, but from other things I've read, lithium has other beneficial qualities as far as the ionic gates that Dep doesn't have. Don't ask me where I saw this, one of my surfing meanderings. Things change so quickly with the science, though, you should explore this further and let me know what you find out.
With lithium you have the thyroid problem. With Depakote the weight gain and PCOS. Take your pick.
I think this crush thing happens all the time and it's not necessarily transference. Hey, you got a nice guy who'se paying attention and cares about you, is smart and educated - good looking and funny is a bonus. What's to wonder? There aren't that many potential love interests who have all those qualities. You'll probably go 'EEEEK!' but consider talking about it with him. If you're acting blushy and giggly, he probably knows, and it would be good to get it out on the table (or HIM on the table - heh, heh. Oh no, did I say that?!). That's my two cents so Dr. Bob doesn't have to redirect us. Plus, we discussed meds plenty to make up for it. - Barbara
Posted by fluffy on September 6, 2003, at 18:14:14
In reply to Re: I feel bad... » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 6, 2003, at 17:45:40
That's interesting info, Barbara. I wonder what the hyperventilation stuff has to do with psych meds? When I go to my doc, he asks me a host of questions about side effects. One of them is: Are you sighing or hyperventilating?
Either way--I've always sighed constantly. It weirds people out. They wonder if I'm impatient or pissed. I'm usually not--just relieving myself.
I'm gonna try it. Can't hurt. I think it's funny advice to NOT BREATHE. When you're upset, people are always saying--"just breathe--take deep breaths." Yoga has never helped me with breathing.
Thanks!
Katy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 0:16:37
In reply to thanks for the breathing advice!, posted by fluffy on September 6, 2003, at 18:14:14
I don't know why your doctor would ask you about sighing except for it may indicate depression. Maybe western medicine is hip to 'disordered breathing', a big contributor to mental imbalance, according to some yoga texts. In fact, some say that disordered breathing is the MAJOR contributor to mental imbalance. The texts go on to talk about irregular breathing, sighing, ragged in and outs, as severely imbalancing the nervous system. But most of what you hear about yogic breathing is the deep belly breathing stuff - take a deep breath. It's never done anything for me either and I've always felt that I didn't know how to do it right, even though I've been 'trying' to do it right for a long time. According to the info I read, the big inhale/oxygen saturation we're taught is proper deep breathing disrupts the pH and can bring on panic attacks and asthma symptoms. The reason we're told to breathe into a paper bag during a panic attack is to increase the carbon dioxide in the blood and bring the pH back to normal levels. Carbon dioxide is a good thing, despite what we're told about how bad it is and how good oxygen is. Surprised me. I guess we need the balance.
So now I've been paying more attention to breathing since hearing about this hyperventillation syndrome. I don't always get it right and sometimes feel like my diaphragm is locked up. But what's supposed to work for normal breathing to relax (not the holding the nose exercise which is more of a therapeutic workout and retraining) is to make the exhale about twice as long as the inhale and use the stomach muscles to wring out that last bit of air, but without forcing anything - just a kind of relaxed squeezing it out. Don't have to be anal with the count either. The idea is that you want to focus on the exhale and squeeze out as much of the stale air as possible, pause for a second or so, and then you don't have to even think about the inhale. It happens by itself and with the right amount of air just by releasing the abdomen after the exhale and short pause. It really is relaxing and clears the head. Plus you get a bonus ab workout.
The breathing is normally done through the nose, but a variation on it that I like alot is to put your tongue against your teeth and exhale from the mouth making a 'sssssss' sound like a steam kettle. Use a bit of resistance, in other words, don't let the air whoosh out too quickly, but make the exhale long and slow keeping the hissy sound even. Or you could purse your lips like you're blowing out a candle, again with a little resistance so that it doesn't come out too fast. Super relaxing, clearing, and gets you pleasantly high in a nice way! You can't expect to breathe like this all the time, but whenever you have a little time, like waiting in lines, at a stop light, or even devoting some time on a regular basis in the morning and eve, it will be a nice break.
I think it will help you, Katy, especially if you sigh alot. That sounds like a sure case of 'disordered breathing' to me that the yogi's speak of - having been there and done that myself. - Barbara
> That's interesting info, Barbara. I wonder what the hyperventilation stuff has to do with psych meds? When I go to my doc, he asks me a host of questions about side effects. One of them is: Are you sighing or hyperventilating?
>
> Either way--I've always sighed constantly. It weirds people out. They wonder if I'm impatient or pissed. I'm usually not--just relieving myself.
>
> I'm gonna try it. Can't hurt. I think it's funny advice to NOT BREATHE. When you're upset, people are always saying--"just breathe--take deep breaths." Yoga has never helped me with breathing.
>
> Thanks!
> Katy
Posted by katia on September 7, 2003, at 1:00:30
In reply to Re: Lami/Lith combo » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 6, 2003, at 18:06:27
yes, I agree about getting him, I mean :-), it on the table. It'll dissipate the energy. he probably knows anyway.
I just don't want to chance not being able to have kids and am worried about the Dep. If I feel extraordinarily wonderfully centered and have energy to function on the Dep/Lam combo, I may consider staying there. I realize that it's hard to find a good fit, so if that's it, maybe I'll take my chances with PCOS. I was just drawn to the Lamc.
I just get so exhausted so soon in the evening on Depakote. I have energy during the day and feel fine, but just burn out quickly. So quickly and so exhausted, it feels like I'm on the verge of a cold, but I"m not.
anyway!
ta ta
Katia
Posted by katia on September 7, 2003, at 1:09:43
In reply to thanks for the breathing advice!, posted by fluffy on September 6, 2003, at 18:14:14
I've actually had lots of experience with this as someone told me once that I was a shallow breather and was in a constant state of hyperventilation. I sigh all the time too. I researched it and found a great book "The Tao of Natural Breathing". It goes into how our emotional state totally effects our breathing and how our breathing is of utmost importance in digestion, blood ph, etc. etc. mood. In fact, a lot of depressed people have problems with digestion and also forget to breath. It's totally related. in brief, when we breathe properly, our diaphragm massages our digestive organs and helps with elimination and digestion. About 60-70% of toxic elimination is done thru' respiration. Depending on how much oxygen is getting into the blood and Co2, can depend if the blood is acidic or not (mine is). It goes on and on. Fascinating book - highly recommend it. I'd go and get it off my shelf and quote some more, but I'm too tired. I need beddy-by.
So if you sigh a lot, it is a sign that you are hyperventilating due to being a shallow breather. This book, among other things, a year and a half ago was one of the tell'tale signs to awaken me to the fact that I'd been depressed much of my life.
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 12:32:33
In reply to Re: Lami/Lith combo » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 7, 2003, at 1:00:30
Katia,
About the fatigue and other physical discomforts, can you definitely trace it to when you started taking Dep? Could there be something else going on? Digestion, hormones (there I go on that one again, however if you've had PCOS scare, maybe so), could be alot of things that don't have anything to do with meds. Maybe the meds exacerbate something already there.You know, I think I read something somewhere about Depakote affecting something physical, hence the PCOS connection. It would make sense that hormones would be implicated in PCOS since it's the reproductive system, don't you think? You mentioned your Scotland pregnancy. Was there a problem with the pregnancy that would make you suspect some kind of hormonal thing? From personal experience, I know how miserable any kind of hormonal imbalance can be. The little critters are such key players in our mind/body health.
I'll make myself a note and track the info down. Not to say that Dep is causing it, but maybe there's some other imbalance that's been there and is now coming out of hiding.
I sure don't think it's the Lam. I've read some medical literature that says it can cause drowsiness, but no real person who has ever taken it has ever complained about it being sedating - just the opposite. - Barbara
p.s.
> yes, I agree about getting him, I mean :-), it on the table.***Right as I clicked on the 'Submit Post' button I thought, 'Oh Jeez, I'll probably get blocked for that one'...
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 12:38:44
In reply to Re: thanks for the breathing advice! » fluffy, posted by katia on September 7, 2003, at 1:09:43
That looks like a great book, Katia. I looked at the table of contents and really liked what I saw. I'm going to get it too. - Barbara
> I've actually had lots of experience with this as someone told me once that I was a shallow breather and was in a constant state of hyperventilation. I sigh all the time too. I researched it and found a great book "The Tao of Natural Breathing". It goes into how our emotional state totally effects our breathing and how our breathing is of utmost importance in digestion, blood ph, etc. etc. mood. In fact, a lot of depressed people have problems with digestion and also forget to breath. It's totally related. in brief, when we breathe properly, our diaphragm massages our digestive organs and helps with elimination and digestion. About 60-70% of toxic elimination is done thru' respiration. Depending on how much oxygen is getting into the blood and Co2, can depend if the blood is acidic or not (mine is). It goes on and on. Fascinating book - highly recommend it. I'd go and get it off my shelf and quote some more, but I'm too tired. I need beddy-by.
> So if you sigh a lot, it is a sign that you are hyperventilating due to being a shallow breather. This book, among other things, a year and a half ago was one of the tell'tale signs to awaken me to the fact that I'd been depressed much of my life.
> Katia
Posted by katia on September 7, 2003, at 15:01:48
In reply to Re: thanks for the breathing advice! » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 12:38:44
Great. It is a good book. Lots of good exercises in it too. I should pick it back up.
k.
Posted by katia on September 7, 2003, at 16:41:27
In reply to Re: Lami/Lith combo » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 12:32:33
I can pretty much associate the fatigue with the Depakote. Digestion thing has been going on for years. I have a distinct and sudden drop in energy and feel exhausted to the bones in the afternoon/evening. I guess the Lam. will energize me back up. But that's the wierd thing. I have the worst time falling asleep and feel that wired/tired thing going on. I get at least 6-7 hours on bad nights, so it's not much of a lack of sleep. On good nights, I sleep between 8-11 hours. I sleep too much, which is an odd mix into the picture. I have always needed sleep. Well, at least after I have been in my mid 20s. It's like I ran out of energy b/c I don't think I slept much late teens, early twenties. And since then, I just cannot go without sleep without losing the plot totally. I get out of balance sooooo quickly with little sleep. But then again, I've been medicated for the past year. Prior to that I was sleeping like 4-8 hours a night. utter insomniac. It may be med related. So 6-7 usually can be ok for me for a brief period, but somehow on Dep. it's sooo not enough. I'll just ride it out and see what the next day brings. consciousness is a funny thing - always changing perceptions....
Katia
> Katia,
> About the fatigue and other physical discomforts, can you definitely trace it to when you started taking Dep? Could there be something else going on? Digestion, hormones (there I go on that one again, however if you've had PCOS scare, maybe so), could be alot of things that don't have anything to do with meds. Maybe the meds exacerbate something already there.
>
> You know, I think I read something somewhere about Depakote affecting something physical, hence the PCOS connection. It would make sense that hormones would be implicated in PCOS since it's the reproductive system, don't you think? You mentioned your Scotland pregnancy. Was there a problem with the pregnancy that would make you suspect some kind of hormonal thing? From personal experience, I know how miserable any kind of hormonal imbalance can be. The little critters are such key players in our mind/body health.
>
> I'll make myself a note and track the info down. Not to say that Dep is causing it, but maybe there's some other imbalance that's been there and is now coming out of hiding.
>
> I sure don't think it's the Lam. I've read some medical literature that says it can cause drowsiness, but no real person who has ever taken it has ever complained about it being sedating - just the opposite. - Barbara
>
> p.s.
> > yes, I agree about getting him, I mean :-), it on the table.
>
> ***Right as I clicked on the 'Submit Post' button I thought, 'Oh Jeez, I'll probably get blocked for that one'...
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 20:13:02
In reply to Re: Lami/Lith combo » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 7, 2003, at 16:41:27
Katia,
Here's something you might find interesting regarding the Depakote PCOS thing:http://www.psycheducation.org/hormones/Insulin/polycystic.htm
What I found interesting at this link was how Dep seemed to affect hormones in general, as in estrogen being twice normal after 6 months of use. There were also some refutes about it saying that other tests showed no difference between it and lithium in that regard. Anyway, there's alot here to digest.
I now remember what I read about the PCOS and hormones. It's the connection to insulin, or insulin resistance. It was in a number of books I've been reading on cortisol, high carb diets and mood, weight and hyperinsulemia and such. Did your metabolic tester correlate hyperinsulemia with your metabolic type and symptoms? What you said recently about tiredness, sleep problems, mood fluctuations, etc, sounds alot like a blood sugar disorder. I'm sure you've had all this checked out and you said that symptoms have started since Dep, but I wonder if your insulin could have been affected in some way since starting it, or maybe exacerbated an existing problem? Hope not, if Dep is going to work for you, but it's something to investigate, eh? And wouldn't it be loverly if all the crap was due to lousy blood sugar? I'm hot on the trail with that one myself. Oh, love the decomposed skunk blood image. Good thing I don't go for red wine or I'd really be tempted. -Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 20:19:19
In reply to thanks for the breathing advice!, posted by fluffy on September 6, 2003, at 18:14:14
Howzit going, girl? Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope your gallery event and talk went great. That's probably where you are, gadding about at celebratory post-show parties. Anyhow, we miss you!
Posted by Ponder on September 8, 2003, at 13:00:53
In reply to Re: Lami/Lith combo » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 12:32:33
In response to B-cat:
>I sure don't think it's the Lam. I've read some medical literature that says it can cause drowsiness, but no real person who has ever taken it has ever complained about it being sedating - just the opposite. - BarbaraDoesn't this just frost you? That's why PsychoBabble is so useful. Most psych docs prescribe based on the product circulars, look at you like crazy if you tell them you've had a different response, and it's damned hard to tell what really to expect from the initial clinical trials.
Posted by katia on September 8, 2003, at 14:25:41
In reply to Official Side-effects, posted by Ponder on September 8, 2003, at 13:00:53
hi,
yes, I agree. No one knows what will happen with s/e Ponder.BTW Barb, I haven't started the Lamcital yet b/c i'm starting all my suppelements (incl. L-Carnitine). So we've decided to wait a week.
My dep. will run out in two days and I'm finding it hard to get an rx filled! Doc has no samples. eek.
Katia
Posted by katia on September 9, 2003, at 14:46:07
In reply to Dep and PCOS » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 20:13:02
Hiya Barb,
Very interesting info I found out....
I was doing some research on L-Carn. b/c I wanted to find out if I should be taking it on Dep. I was sooooo racy yesterday. I woke up at 6:30 and went to bed the previous night at 1:30 for a total of 5 hours. I got a lot done and even worked. I was wondering if it had to do w/ L-Carn. or my mood swing.
Anyway, what I found out is ironically and coicindentally enough Depakote reduced L-Carnitine in people and when that happens, weight gain happens. So it's probably a very good thing to take while on dep.
Interesting huh?
gotta go. A depressed "no one loves me" doggie needs a walk right now.
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 10, 2003, at 1:54:33
In reply to L-Carnitine and Depakote » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 9, 2003, at 14:46:07
Yes, very interesting! L-Carnitine is supposed to help control 'blood sugar' and slows down the absorption of carbs to be stored as fat. This all has to do with insulin levels. Carbs are stored in cells and can only be released by insulin. Once carbs are released, they become the glucose the body and brain runs on. If insulin receptors become desensitized though different means, carbs don't get released, don't get used for energy production, and end up getting stored as fat, causing a high free insulin blood level, blood sugar spikes, hypoglycemic symptoms, anxiety, fatigue, mental duhhhh, weight gain - sound familiar?
What I've been finding out through searching since we talked about all this is that Depakote negatively affects insulin - why or how I don't know yet - causing the same insulin resistance problems (hyperinsulemia) described above. Taking L-Carn makes alot of sense, since L-Carnitine supposedly prevents and reverses hyperinsulemia which would prevent the weight gain that bound up carbs cause. I'm running out and getting me some tomorrow!
This whole insulin/carbs thing is the main theory behind the Atkins diet, the Zone, all these low carb diets. This would be a great litmus test for L-carnitine, eh? But I wonder if Depakote somehow works because of this insulin effect thing and if L-Carn would interfere? Even so, best to know these things about these strange substances we take and hope and pray will make us feel better and hopefully not turn us into physical wrecks.
Of course, we don't know for sure that Depakote causes hyperinsulemia but there's alot of research saying it does. I wonder if the other 'porkogenic' meds cause weight gain through the same insulin connection. If so, this is something serious to look into. Hyperinsulemia is turning out to be a very bad thing - dangerous to the heart, Diabetes II, and not just a fat issue. - Barbara
> Hiya Barb,
> Very interesting info I found out....
> I was doing some research on L-Carn. b/c I wanted to find out if I should be taking it on Dep. I was sooooo racy yesterday. I woke up at 6:30 and went to bed the previous night at 1:30 for a total of 5 hours. I got a lot done and even worked. I was wondering if it had to do w/ L-Carn. or my mood swing.
> Anyway, what I found out is ironically and coicindentally enough Depakote reduced L-Carnitine in people and when that happens, weight gain happens. So it's probably a very good thing to take while on dep.
> Interesting huh?
> gotta go. A depressed "no one loves me" doggie needs a walk right now.
> Katia
Posted by fluffy on September 10, 2003, at 11:33:42
In reply to How's the Fluffsters? » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2003, at 20:19:19
Hi--I'm here.
You're sweet for noticing that I was "gone".I don't have internet access, and I can only do this while I'm at my job. I have a VERY low key job at a book shop, so I'm able to surf a lot.
Well, I got through the class I teach last night w/o a scratch. I didn't fumble too much w/ my words. The opening of the exhibition is tonight. And that shouldn't be too difficult.
My pdoc appointment yesterday was another story. My doc seems to think that I shouldn't be taking Lithium because I'm having severe cognitive side effects, even at a low dose. And I went hypomanic for about 4 days--super, super speedy and frenetic (while on the Li). I've been on it for almost two weeks now, and no significant improvements--if anything, I've had some setbacks. I tried to write a book review 3 days ago, and I couldn't even put sentences together. I have been stuttering, and I can't find words. I've been reminding myself 5 times why I'm walking into a room, and even then, sometimes I forget why I am there. WHAT TO DO???
He wanted to switch me right away to Zyprexa, Depakote or Trileptal. I decided to wait it out and see if it gets better. Last night, I slept on my own w/o the benzo. So at least that's good. But I still feel stupid. And now I'm getting the watery mouth (thirst) thing.
It is SUPER important to me to be able to have my memory and such (like I suppose it is to ANYONE). I decided to try the Li for another week or so to see if this all clears up. My doc said it was a sound decision--one that a normal clinician would make. He is somewhat radical as a researcher. And he admitted that he makes decisions more quickly than your normal psychiatrist.
Katia--if the Depakote WORKS, then count yourself lucky. Not everyone benefits from the same combos of meds. And if you find the right one or combo right away, then GREAT!
I'm caught up in the confusing and frustrating process of finding the final touch to stop this roller coaster--it SUCKS!!
Best to all,
Katy
Posted by katia on September 10, 2003, at 12:35:31
In reply to Re: How's the Fluffsters?, posted by fluffy on September 10, 2003, at 11:33:42
Hi Fluffy, Barbara, etc.
I'm having a hard time figuring out what's what too. Sunday night I barely slept and Monday I had tons of energy. Monday I slept 11hrs and yesterday I could barely drag myself out of bed to run errands to just come crawling back to bed. Last night I slept 8 hours and feel fine today.
If the Depakote works doesn't matter b/c I'm so afraid of the PCOS and infertility and I'm certainly not losing weight by any means.
You've probably read some of the posts here, if you do go on Depakote, it may be worth your while to get some L-Carnitine. My pdoc wants to see how I do on Depakote for the next 8 weeks while I titrate slowly on Lamictal and then add Lithium (after coming off of Dep). He mentioned Trileptal sp? as a good one to try. I know that he said that it is similar to Tegretol, but with less side effects.For me, all I know is that I want something with an antidepressant quality as that's my main thing. Like yesterday. It was awful. I'm sick of hiding away from the world. When is there a good time to just go back into it? work-wise. I wait tables twice a week and am starting to loathe it and it's exhausting. I'm too old for this! And I am going 1000$ in the hole per month!
I know I'm not totally stable (of course not - I'll be when I find the right med/combo?) as I do impulsive things that make sense at the time, but then a day later I cringe. for instance, I walked out Friday from my pdoc's appt. w/o paying, I forgot and then I went back on Monday to pay with loads of literature on studies/research for my pdoc along with a four page poem that I had written 9 mos. or so ago. I thought it would help him understand me better. It made perfect sense to give it to him then, now I can't figure out why I did that? Stupid things that I'm so sure about at the time and just have to do them or perform the act and am quite adamant and stubborn about it, then a few hours/days and I can't believe I've done it!anyone else can relate? I'm not totally convinced that I'm BP. And I need for my pdoc to talk to me about things like giving him poems, leaving bizarre messages. How does he know that I am? It's all so confusing. I might just be agitated depressed. and the times I've experienced any type of mania was probably just my reaction for coming out of the depression cave. But I can relate so well to BP stories. I'm confused. And can dx's change over the years? And will I have to take meds for life?
I suppose I'll ask him all these questions.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on September 10, 2003, at 15:32:40
In reply to Official Side-effects, posted by Ponder on September 8, 2003, at 13:00:53
Hey Katia, B-cat, Ponder,
Sometimes I think it's just hard for them to put side effects into words. (They have to sound clinical, you know--they can't very well say--"it causes a fuzzy but activated response") I DID feel sedated on Lamictal---I felt all weird--yawning and heavy eyes during the day, but not able to sleep at night.
Now--on to Katia--
What you are describing sounds like bipolar disorder to me. You do things in excess, then later, when you're depressed, you wonder why you did that stuff. It sounds to me like you might be a rapid cycler as well. Judging from your posts, it seems that you do. I'm NOT your doctor. So I won't presume to know what kind of treatment you need. But your doctor seems to be on the right track. Sounds to me like he knows his stuff. Unfortunately, as I am experiencing now, RESPONSES VARY from drug to drug and from person to person!!
I don't know what to say to you since I'm not in the best of spirits right now myself. I do, however believe that there is a drug or combination of drugs that will help you and I. It can take awhile.
Now about the debt. I hate to ask....(if this is a sensitive topic)...but...do you have a good relationship with your family? Do they know what you are going through? Maybe they can help. Just a thought.
Gotta go--my eyes are blurry. I really wish you the best Katia. I haven't lost hope for you yet, so don't you lose hope either! Remember--this is the tough part. And I'm there with you.
Katy
> In response to B-cat:
> >I sure don't think it's the Lam. I've read some medical literature that says it can cause drowsiness, but no real person who has ever taken it has ever complained about it being sedating - just the opposite. - Barbara
>
> Doesn't this just frost you? That's why PsychoBabble is so useful. Most psych docs prescribe based on the product circulars, look at you like crazy if you tell them you've had a different response, and it's damned hard to tell what really to expect from the initial clinical trials.
Posted by katia on September 10, 2003, at 16:12:35
In reply to Re: Official Side-effects, posted by fluffy on September 10, 2003, at 15:32:40
Hi Katy,
Thanks for your supportive words. My family has helped me out too much in the past. I've made a conscious financial break from them no matter how much I'm getting into debt. It's just not fair, one, and two, I need to draw a boundary and when finances are involved, boundaries become unclear.
I do think I'm BP too, but there are so many categories and subtypes and comorbidity, it's hard to tell. My pdoc is not really that interested in hearing about my past; just more what I'm experiencing in the present. I don't understand that. He did ask some questions in the intake. I guess I'm just feeling a little unheard/unseen for all that I am and wonder if he has the full scope of me and my history.
The s/e you describe from Lam. is this new since Li.? Or has it been the whole time?
Hope you too have feeling better soon.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on September 10, 2003, at 16:51:31
In reply to Re: Official Side-effects » fluffy, posted by katia on September 10, 2003, at 16:12:35
Hey Katia--
No--the side effects from Lamictal went away over time. Usually, the side effects would erupt 2 weeks after raising the dose, then settle down after a few days or so. At some point during the titration, the side effects became overwhelming, so we stopped @200mg.
Psychiatrists just don't have the time to understand ALL of you. They speak in terms of symptoms--some of which they observe from what you say in your visits. That's their job--I don't think they mean to be impersonal--they just can't be too emotional. But I do know what you mean. I felt that way when I was first diagnosed. Now I almost like the über clinical setting.
Thanks for the well-wishing, Katia. I'm in a bad mood. I hope you are feeling better soon, too.
Katy
Posted by SUMMER2002 on September 10, 2003, at 22:01:33
In reply to Re: Official Side-effects » fluffy, posted by katia on September 10, 2003, at 16:12:35
Hi Ladies,
Sometimes I feel like I'm eavesdropping on your conversations but it helps. I still question my BP diagnosis to the point my pdoc said fire me - what are you paying me for? This was after I went through two other pdocs. Oh well. He then went on to say I'm not my diagnosis etc etc etc.
Anyway, my point is that I am only on Lamicatal and feel fine for the most part. I'm at 250 mg. I may start welbutrin (spelling?) to help stop smoking - but a little bit nervous about changing anything. I am tired alot but I don't know if it from the lamicatal. I'm still taking flurazapam every night to help sleep. I quit for two nights and had some wild dreams. The second night I woke up crying (sobbing was more like it) from the dream. Pretty odd.
Take care
Patricia
Posted by katia on September 11, 2003, at 0:30:53
In reply to Re: Official Side-effects » katia, posted by SUMMER2002 on September 10, 2003, at 22:01:33
Hi Patricia!
Anyone is welcome, otherwise we'd be emailing each other instead of posting on this board. That's the beauty of this, anyone can jump in at any time.How long have you been on Lamcital? What has your official" dx been?
Why do you question it (besides the obvious reasons of taking care of ourselves)?
thanks for your post!
Katia
Posted by femlite on September 11, 2003, at 7:34:42
In reply to Re: Official Side-effects » katia, posted by SUMMER2002 on September 10, 2003, at 22:01:33
>I still question my BP diagnosis to the point my pdoc said fire me - what are you paying me for? This was after I went through two other pdocs. Oh well. He then went on to say I'm not my diagnosis etc etc etc.Hi Patricia, (Summer is such a pleasant thought!)
What is it about your diagnosis that you question?
Another observation, if you are BP, is it 1 or 2?
from reading and the knowledge Ive gained lurking on this sight, BPs usually reguire more than one med. Usually a mood stabilizer, I think Lamictal could suffice (correct me if I wrong, ya'all).
And next they need an AD. Wellbutrin would fill that bill. Ive had some bad experences with SSRIs.
Too activating, couldnt sleep. But wellbutrin is a little different as it affects dopamine receptors more than serotonin receptors. I too take a sleep aid.Dopamine receptors are responsible for motivation, which I sorely lack.
Wellbutrin is activating, and could help your tiredness during the day
>
> Anyway, my point is that I am only on Lamicatal and feel fine for the most part. I'm at 250 mg. I may start welbutrin (spelling?) to help stop smoking - but a little bit nervous about changing anything. I am tired alot but I don't know if it from the lamicatal. I'm still taking flurazapam every night to help sleep. I quit for two nights and had some wild dreams. The second night I woke up crying (sobbing was more like it) from the dream. Pretty odd.Forgive me for saying this, but you sound kinda discourged. I think thats to be expected if your a BP and are not taking an Anti-deppresant.
I know what you mean about the scarriness of messing with your brain, but you obviously want to feel better, and thats what drives us all to seek help in the first place.
Wellbutrin is a good AD to start with. Give it a month and see what happens. (there will side effects in the first month)
Are you taking a multi vitamin that contains Iron?
I made that mistake a few months ago, and have since learned that too much Iron is worse than to little. One of the effects of Iron toxcity is feeling tired.
Best of luck to ya
Posted by fluffy on September 11, 2003, at 11:42:13
In reply to Re: Official Side-effects » katia, posted by SUMMER2002 on September 10, 2003, at 22:01:33
Hello again Patricia and everyone--
It is so natural to question a BP diagnosis!! Sometimes it is necessary. Do you feel that you fit the DSM definition at all? Have you had a bad reaction to antidepressants in the past? Is there a family history? All of these things helped me to determine that it was indeed true--I am bipolar. SHEESH!! I even hate to say it. It carries quite a stigma. Sounds to me that if you are, you are probably BPII--or just barely above the unipolar of the BP "spectrum".
If the Wellbutrin makes you feel manic or mixed, then bag it--it's not worth it to take a drug to help you quit. For what it's worth, I also quit smoking 6 months ago. I found that once my mood was stabilized, it was easier to quit. So, heck--if the WB works, then HOORAY!!! I just quit cold turkey--I was a raging bitch for 4 days, and was very tempted to start again for the next month, but after that it got a lot easier.
I also found that Lamictal made it almost impossible for me to sleep--esp. at first, and for some reason lately. Maybe it's just the changing of the seasons.
I am feeling much better with the Li today. I'm giving it another week, and who knows--it may be just right. Doctors always want to try the new models and use their patients as guinea pigs. (esp. mine!) But I can see why past BP and present BP people couldn't tolerate Li--it has been uncomfortable!! But the side effects do seem to be fading. As for a jump in the dose--oh!! I'm cringing!! Not another 3 weeks of feeling confused and stupid! I'm a professor and I have to be smarter than my students--it's my job!
My next option is Zyprexa, I think. Since i have "psychotic" depressions w/ rejection sensitivity and negative ruminations, it may be good bet.
Sorry for the ramble--
I hope everyone is well and functional!!Katy
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