Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 9730

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Good article, Fluffers! » fluffy

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 0:38:31

In reply to Katia--helpful article re: Lamictal, Li, Depakote, posted by fluffy on July 27, 2003, at 17:30:34

It's good to see lamictal being validated like that. It will be interesting to hear about lamictal+depakote experiences. Lithium's side effects concern me (thyroid, kidney) and if Dep is as effective without those problems, hey, I'm ready.

 

Re: Good article, Fluffers! » Barbara Cat

Posted by katia on July 28, 2003, at 2:17:57

In reply to Good article, Fluffers! » fluffy, posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 0:38:31

> It's good to see lamictal being validated like that. It will be interesting to hear about lamictal+depakote experiences. Lithium's side effects concern me (thyroid, kidney) and if Dep is as effective without those problems, hey, I'm ready.

Fluffers and Barb,
god, I just looked at the website on that rare rash that can form from either Depakote and/or Lamictal. It's almost put me off trying either one now. really. It scared the **** out of me. I almost wish I hadn't seen that web site. It's on another link/thread. I'm really really worried about this. Do you know the statistics? I feel very disheartened now - like dep. and lam. are no longer choices for me and i'll be like this forever. Those rashes seem incomprehensible to live through. Any comments?
Fluffy, I haven't read that article yet, but will.
katia

 

Lamictal rash. No prob with care » katia

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 11:00:54

In reply to Re: Good article, Fluffers! » Barbara Cat, posted by katia on July 28, 2003, at 2:17:57

Katia,
The serious rash, Stevens Jacobsen rash, is very rare and only happens when one raises lamictal too quickly. Some slight rash may occur but it is rarely a problem and goes away. The true rash is unmistakable with blisters, fever and chills, and rarely develops in some very susceptible persons at too high a dosage. Problems can be prevented by raising dosage by 12.5mg a week until desired level, usually 100-200mg (but many are on higher). One caveat is that Depakote can raise blood levels of lamictal and there's caution about combining the two at the usual therapeutic dosages.

I've recently developed a very annoying whole body itch. I only yesterday, after surfing the web, found out this sometimes happens when lamictal is raised. I forgot about the slow titration and went up 25mg in one week. If it doesn't subside soon I'll go back down 25mg, see how I feel, and raise it sloooooowly if needed. I don't feel anything is getting damaged or compromised, especially when you consider the damage stress and depression can do.

All of these mood meds have their price, some with side effects much worse than others. Lamictal is by far the most benign I've encountered as long as you have patience with the dosage increase. If you're really concerned about the rash, you can titrate even slower than 12.5mg a week. If you can have the patience to do this (sometimes we just want to feel better NOW), the rash should truly be very low on your priority of concerns. - Barbara
>
> Fluffers and Barb,
> god, I just looked at the website on that rare rash that can form from either Depakote and/or Lamictal. It's almost put me off trying either one now. really. It scared the **** out of me. I almost wish I hadn't seen that web site. It's on another link/thread. I'm really really worried about this. Do you know the statistics? I feel very disheartened now - like dep. and lam. are no longer choices for me and i'll be like this forever. Those rashes seem incomprehensible to live through. Any comments?
> Fluffy, I haven't read that article yet, but will.
> katia

 

Re: Lamictal rash. No prob with care » Barbara Cat

Posted by katia on July 28, 2003, at 14:28:08

In reply to Lamictal rash. No prob with care » katia, posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 11:00:54

Thanks Barbara,
I need to hear this. So in the meantime, I've also talked to my pdoc. He is just quoting statistics, which is again, rare for that deadly rash to occur. But, it can also occur with Depakote, right? So I'm not surewhat to do, esp. b/c Dep. and Lam. might not be able to work together.
I do trust him, but I also trust myself and this board. I do have to remember his is the one who studied this stuff for years. And his reasoning to start with Depakote is that it's "tried and true" as a pretty good mood stabilizer. And that his rationale is this will hopefully even out the "ups" so that I won't crash into the "downs". and that to see this result takes at least the length of a cycle. He works a lot with bipolar people and is pretty well known and respected. (i've been dxed as BP NOS - falling somewhere in between mixed and II).
and I can't help but feel my intuition is telling me to start on the Lamictal first. He suggested that I just start with the Dep. and see if I can even tolerate it, i.e. do I crash into severe depression within a week, am I too nauseous, do I gain weight, etc. and if I can, then we'll see if it works for me or not by I guess, waiting out a cycle. Problem is don't really know what a cycle is for me as I'm just plain moody as hell, mainly with the down. I am always taking the bull by the horns and making my own decisions disregarding real professional opinions even and I'm thinking maybe this time, listen to him first and then take the bull by the horns?
Oh, by the way, I don't have insurance and I get my meds from Canada and this pharmacy there doesn't have the ER version yet.

 

Re: Dancing queen and proud of it!

Posted by starlight on July 28, 2003, at 15:07:21

In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » Barbara Cat, posted by katia on July 27, 2003, at 16:05:21

That's so funny to me, I suffer from the same stuff. I have periods where everything is okay, but also have periods, more likely when I'm depressed, when my whole body aches. My knees, my back, it just hurts to be alive, and the fatigue is tough too. I think that's why I like to smoke pot occaisonally too - it eases those feelings. But then there are times when everything feels much better. That was what I liked when I tried both depakote and zoloft, was they both eased those feelings. But I think the lamictal has done that as well.

starlight

 

Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » starlight

Posted by katia on July 28, 2003, at 15:27:52

In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it!, posted by starlight on July 28, 2003, at 15:07:21

> That's so funny to me, I suffer from the same stuff. I have periods where everything is okay, but also have periods, more likely when I'm depressed, when my whole body aches. My knees, my back, it just hurts to be alive, and the fatigue is tough too. I think that's why I like to smoke pot occaisonally too - it eases those feelings. But then there are times when everything feels much better. That was what I liked when I tried both depakote and zoloft, was they both eased those feelings. But I think the lamictal has done that as well.
>
> starlight

What was your experience on Depakote?
Katia

 

Re: Lamictal rash. No prob with care » katia

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 15:30:59

In reply to Re: Lamictal rash. No prob with care » Barbara Cat, posted by katia on July 28, 2003, at 14:28:08

Katia,
This is the first I've heard about a rash with Depakote. The only thing I can think of is that it's known to increase blood levels of lamictal, kinda acts synergistically with it. But if you go slow, I've also heard it's a great combo.

If I were you, Katia, I'd definitely start with Depakote and add Lamictal as your pdoc suggests. The reason is that Lamictal can be activating, especially at first, and can bring on hypomania/mixed states without a more centering med (Depakote, lithium) to buffer it. We know how awful mixed states is! BTW, what is Bipolar NOS? Haven't heard of that dx, but it sounds like that's what I am too.

A while back I slowly cut back on lithium. I'm hypothyroid and was getting alarmed at how lithium was making it worse, as it's known to do. I was down to 300mg lithium every other day and taking 75mg lamictal, and began to feel wired and disjointed and frenzied. Added back the lithium and felt much, much better. For me, they seem to need each other. I've never taken Depakote, but heard that it can make you feel calm and centered. It's worth a try to see if it's enough and if not you can add Lamictal once you've got a good stable base. But promise yourself that you'll get good exercise every day because turning into a blimp is pretty depressing. I get loads of exercise when I'm not laid up with a fibro flare and can barely lose a pound. It's frustrating. But if I don't work out it takes only a week to add on 5 pounds. Don't let this stop you but look at it as a great excuse to use exercise as the best antidepressant around.

 

Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » starlight

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 16:01:22

In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it!, posted by starlight on July 28, 2003, at 15:07:21

Starlight,
How does pot affect you? I get kind of hyper on it and achey, like my muscles are knotted. I enjoy the enhanced creativity, but I think it makes me a bit hypomanic and not at all mellow.

> That's so funny to me, I suffer from the same stuff. I have periods where everything is okay, but also have periods, more likely when I'm depressed, when my whole body aches. My knees, my back, it just hurts to be alive, and the fatigue is tough too. I think that's why I like to smoke pot occaisonally too - it eases those feelings. But then there are times when everything feels much better. That was what I liked when I tried both depakote and zoloft, was they both eased those feelings. But I think the lamictal has done that as well.
>
> starlight

 

Re: Dancing queen and proud of it!

Posted by starlight on July 28, 2003, at 16:33:15

In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » starlight, posted by katia on July 28, 2003, at 15:27:52

I loved it - it was so calming - until it felt like it slowed down my metabolism. Having suffered previously from a severe eating disorder that is one side effect I refuse to tolerate.
starlight

 

Re: Dancing queen and proud of it!

Posted by starlight on July 28, 2003, at 16:40:00

In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » starlight, posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 16:01:22

It's tough, it's a double edged sword. I love it, the calming effect, any pain is instantly dissipated. It's great. But, I tend to get a bit paranoid, don't like that it makes me feel like I'm hiding something, and it dries out my vocal cords some, which as a singer is a no no.

I don't feel like it enhances my creativity much, because I'm too self critical in that state. I find it harder to write or produce solid work, but I do like the let me wander around vocally and with my guitar aspect, if something actually works that's great but it's usually just a good wander.

starlight

 

Re: Lamictal rash. No prob with care » Barbara Cat

Posted by katia on July 28, 2003, at 17:54:04

In reply to Re: Lamictal rash. No prob with care » katia, posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 15:30:59

> Katia,
> This is the first I've heard about a rash with Depakote. The only thing I can think of is that it's known to increase blood levels of lamictal, kinda acts synergistically with it. But if you go slow, I've also heard it's a great combo.
>
> If I were you, Katia, I'd definitely start with Depakote and add Lamictal as your pdoc suggests. The reason is that Lamictal can be activating, especially at first, and can bring on hypomania/mixed states without a more centering med (Depakote, lithium) to buffer it. We know how awful mixed states is! BTW, what is Bipolar NOS? Haven't heard of that dx, but it sounds like that's what I am too.
>
> A while back I slowly cut back on lithium. I'm hypothyroid and was getting alarmed at how lithium was making it worse, as it's known to do. I was down to 300mg lithium every other day and taking 75mg lamictal, and began to feel wired and disjointed and frenzied. Added back the lithium and felt much, much better. For me, they seem to need each other. I've never taken Depakote, but heard that it can make you feel calm and centered. It's worth a try to see if it's enough and if not you can add Lamictal once you've got a good stable base. But promise yourself that you'll get good exercise every day because turning into a blimp is pretty depressing. I get loads of exercise when I'm not laid up with a fibro flare and can barely lose a pound. It's frustrating. But if I don't work out it takes only a week to add on 5 pounds. Don't let this stop you but look at it as a great excuse to use exercise as the best antidepressant around.

Barbara, thanks so much for taking so much time with me!
BP NOS = not otherwise specified! yea, I know, great, that explains a lot. But we're unsure and what the heck do we need such specific labels for anyway? I'm definitely "resonating" with BP II and BP mixed. most definitely the mixed.
I will take your advice and my doctors and start with the Depakote. If I begin to gain weight, I"m outta there. I am trying to get back into my regular yoga practice which always helps keep the weight off. I also wait tables (2x per week) and that's quite a bit of exercise. I'm already at my fat max. of the range I like to be. gained 10 of it back this past six months due to the zoloft, I think. zombies don't have energy to exercise. I've also moved three times in the past year and that takes it out of me.
It's a shame I can't get the XR formula though.
take good care,
Katia

 

Feeling pretty bad

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 29, 2003, at 12:12:10

In reply to Lamictal rash. No prob with care » katia, posted by Barbara Cat on July 28, 2003, at 11:00:54

Hi Friends,
Just wanted to say, for what it's worth, that even in the midst of feeling better it can get bad. I don't know who else to ease these feelings with except with those who have been there. There's alot of grief coming up, second wind of grief over my Mom, grief of feeling so bad physically just when I was starting to ride my bike and dance again. Panic attacks just on the edge. Not sleeping, sick and tired of hearing my husband go on and on and ON about his friggin golf game, not trusting anyone to not judge me when I'm this down, feeling very alone and very scared. The house turns to clutter because I can't think straight enough to pick up after myself, all kinds of impacted grief and pain are rising and I can't tell if it's 'real' and ultimately a healthy thing, or just mood masturbation. It's hard to be in my skin.

No pill is working right now. High doses of benzos, ambien, don't put me to sleep and don't remove the claustrophobic panic. No amount of pain meds even touch the head and body aches. I'm not sure what's going on and the only thing I can think to do is drag my aching exhausted body somewhere to pace it off, write in my journal, hang on until the waves of sobbing and panic ease up. Alone, by myself. I'm feeling more and more estranged from my husband who I don't feel much in common with anymore, and besides he annoys me to tears with constant play by play descriptions of the baseball game, the golf game, stories of things I've heard 9 times before. Doesn't he get it? He's been through this with me before and is now showing great quantities of impatience and annoyance with me for taking time away from his golf game. I don't blame him at all for not wanting be around someone else's pain, but this is not the person I need around me right now. I don't feel safe with my friends or anyone with this stuff because it is so very hard to be around. There is no physical body I feel safe or comfortable with right now. Who wants to be around a very down person when the sun is shining on a summer day? Who wants to be known as a depressive downer of a person? I've been distracting myself from this thing for a while now and just this morning I finally turned around and faced it and admitted it. I can't rail against the exhaustion and sickness (gee, if only I didn't feel so crappy physically...) because they're just aspects of the encompassing sickness.

I guess it's good to come back to these times every now and then to realize what an immense struggle this stuff can be. Teaches us compassion. Life is hard, that can't be denied. Even tho my filters are usually strong enough to see the good parts, right now they're not very convincing. I'm tired, depleted, scared and fed up with the rug being pulled out every damn time. Sorry to dump this on you but I know you can understand better than anyone. Lithium, lamictal, ADs, whatever. They help and maintain, but when something this consuming hits, there's something else going on. My mind feels shattered, but that may not be a bad thing. Please keep me in your kind thoughts for the next few days. I need support from all kinds of 'unseen realms' cause those are the only kind I can relate to right now. - Barbara

 

Re: Feeling pretty bad » Barbara Cat

Posted by katia on July 29, 2003, at 12:58:24

In reply to Feeling pretty bad, posted by Barbara Cat on July 29, 2003, at 12:12:10

> all kinds of impacted grief and pain are rising and I can't tell if it's 'real' and ultimately a healthy thing, or just mood masturbation. It's hard to be in my skin.

Barbara Barbara Barbara,
Honey, I've been there too! You are in my thoughts and I hope things start turning brighter for you! (For you're own sake, not anyone else's!).
I totally relate to trying to figure out if this is an "unhealthy" thing or "mood masturbation". Prior to acknowledging and looking at the fact that I had a mood disorder, I kept trying to figure it out through childhood stuff, therapy, etc. I wonder how many dollars I've spent on therapy working with my sad state and all the negative and perceived problems that come with it when in reality, I really needed to start working with medications to see what REALLY needed to be worked out and to see what was jaded by the lens of depression. It's so hard to weed out what is healthy and "unhealthy" - mood related emotions. We don't want to suppress the healthy ones in fear we're getting depressed again with more meds. and we're then so hypervigilant like when something like this night you're experiencing happens. We think, 'not again" ,that bottome is dropping out from under me again!". Sometimes in that state, I don't want my mood to get better, because I want to figure it out now! I can't take the roller coaster ride anymore.

And remember when in this state EVERYTHING looks and feels a million times worse than it is. (like your relationship with hubby). It's hard on loved ones too to get this. When they see you so fine one minute, how could you be sad again?! It's harder on us though. They get to see it from the outside and even maybe throw some blame on us - which is like adding insult to injury. There is a book out there called "When Someone You Love is Depressed" by Laura Epstein Rosen and Xavier Amador. This might help? Does your husband have a support group? It might help you both in the long run.
It is so hard too because you're body is aching all over as well. It exacerbates everything. People who suffer from mood disorders are warriors of the psyche. It is so tough to hang on!!!!!! I'm alone because I've not managed to keep a hold of any boyfriend due to my temperment! It's all so difficult to sort out and live with and just when we do - that damn rug is pulled out again when we are least excepting it!
Be well and write again if you need to!
Katia

> No pill is working right now. High doses of benzos, ambien, don't put me to sleep and don't remove the claustrophobic panic. No amount of pain meds even touch the head and body aches. I'm not sure what's going on and the only thing I can think to do is drag my aching exhausted body somewhere to pace it off, write in my journal, hang on until the waves of sobbing and panic ease up. Alone, by myself. I'm feeling more and more estranged from my husband who I don't feel much in common with anymore, and besides he annoys me to tears with constant play by play descriptions of the baseball game, the golf game, stories of things I've heard 9 times before. Doesn't he get it? He's been through this with me before and is now showing great quantities of impatience and annoyance with me for taking time away from his golf game. I don't blame him at all for not wanting be around someone else's pain, but this is not the person I need around me right now. I don't feel safe with my friends or anyone with this stuff because it is so very hard to be around. There is no physical body I feel safe or comfortable with right now. Who wants to be around a very down person when the sun is shining on a summer day? Who wants to be known as a depressive downer of a person? I've been distracting myself from this thing for a while now and just this morning I finally turned around and faced it and admitted it. I can't rail against the exhaustion and sickness (gee, if only I didn't feel so crappy physically...) because they're just aspects of the encompassing sickness.
>
> I guess it's good to come back to these times every now and then to realize what an immense struggle this stuff can be. Teaches us compassion. Life is hard, that can't be denied. Even tho my filters are usually strong enough to see the good parts, right now they're not very convincing. I'm tired, depleted, scared and fed up with the rug being pulled out every damn time. Sorry to dump this on you but I know you can understand better than anyone. Lithium, lamictal, ADs, whatever. They help and maintain, but when something this consuming hits, there's something else going on. My mind feels shattered, but that may not be a bad thing. Please keep me in your kind thoughts for the next few days. I need support from all kinds of 'unseen realms' cause those are the only kind I can relate to right now. - Barbara

 

Barb-cat--oh how I know!!

Posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 11:02:10

In reply to Feeling pretty bad, posted by Barbara Cat on July 29, 2003, at 12:12:10

Barbara Cat--

Oh I'm feeling your pain right now. I know EXACTLY what you mean about questioning your thoughts and feelings--am I annoyed with my situation and need to change it? Or is it just my disorder? What to do in this situation? I sometimes feel like I shouldn't pay a damned psychotherapist b/c it's hard enough paying for meds and a psychiatrist. But sometimes I think it would be good to have an accurate objective barometer for these times. Do you have a shrink? It might help take the weight off of your husband *a little*. And it would help you feel less guilty for needing him so much. Shrinks get paid to be needed, you know?

I was just thinking to myself that I'm slipping a little this morning. I've had these racing thoughts lately. I'm also feeling anxious and having trouble sleeping. Feeling like I'm on the verge of crying. Mostly, my racing thoughts are critical ones--mainly of my boyfriend right now. It's like he's my target for the moment. I feel like I want to strart fights with him. I'm really annoyed at some things he's done and said lately. Do I let him know how I feel at the risk of being completely inaccurate and just feeling bad? I'm wrestling with this cognitive bullshit, and frankly, I could use MY shrink right now.

Is it August, that dreaded month for me? I hate f*cking August. I always get mixed and panicky. I was hoping that meds would alleviate this ucky stuff at this time of year. It makes me want to take up smoking again. I'm also in the middle of a move, which exacerbates my stress.

So I'm with you, Barbara. I'm just trying to ride out this storm without annoying too many people around me. But feeling lonely doesn't help either.

Hang in!! Please take care and let me know how you do, and I'll do the same. Sorry to be a downer...but hey, misery loves company, right? I have to wonder if being chipper would annoy me even more.

best,
Katy

 

Re: Barb-cat--oh how I know!!

Posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 11:40:46

In reply to Barb-cat--oh how I know!!, posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 11:02:10

By the way, Barbara--
I feel that I was mood masturbating just then with my last post. I think all you need is someone to care about you right now. What did I do? Just selfishly complained about MY feelings. So I want to send you the best vibes I can right now of empathy and virtual hugging. (((HUGS)))
How are you feeling today, sweet Barbara? I hope, hope, hope a little better.

Katy

 

Thanks Katy, Katia

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 30, 2003, at 11:58:15

In reply to Barb-cat--oh how I know!!, posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 11:02:10

Thanks my friends,
Your being there has been a real port in the storm. I was fighting off panic attacks all day yesterday and finally was able to take a nap in the afternoon, after not sleeping much the last few nights. Sure enough, just when I'm settling down for a nice rest - BOOM! I'm in the midst of a full blown panic attack. I HATE those things!! I can stand anything but not that smothering panic and terror!! No matter how many times I go through them and survive, the next one is never any easier. Can this be the nortriptyline withdrawal I thought I'd escaped? I am not going back to those shit bunging fat pills ever again. I'm almost willing to trade panic attacks for having some saliva again (no, on second thought). The next thing is doing what I can to settle my adrenals cause for whatever reason, this is a classic fight/flight response. My hubby was there for me througout and once again I feel grateful for him. He puts up with alot and the least I can do is listen to his interminable golf plays.

Katy, I know what you mean about August. You're the first person I know who feels that way as well. It just feels hot, bright and claustrophobic. I'd much prefer a nice soft rainy day. As you well know, moving is horribly stressful and you either feel it during or afterward. Don't know if you drink coffee. It's so tempting to use extra caffeine as fuel, but it's very depleting in the long run. I've stopped it since feeling this way and even tho I know it's better for me, the headaches are the pits.

As far as the question of are our responses real or a product of our disorder, I dunno, but our feelings sure are real and have to be respected. The trick is how to move through them without alienating everyone else around us. The problem is, during these times I generally don't have much love in my heart for most human beings. Animals, yes. People, no.

I do have a shrink but he's your typical HMO guy. He cares, but there's not alot he can do in our 20 minutes a month. I end up suggesting meds to him and right now I'm out of ideas.

Katia, you mentioned you have mixed states and I know Katy is also bipolar. I wonder if this wild torment is unique to our bipolar/mixed-states condition. I don't hear much about this form of 'depression', it's usually the blahs, no motivation, etc., instead of this fractured frightening stuff. Usually I can get by and maintain by meditation but try to meditate in this state and it's sure to bring on a panic. I guess I'll scrounge some klonopin out of my pdoc. We try one thing then another and they all poop out. My current valium works for an hour then I'm in alarm again. Klonopin is due for another round. Good luck to you as well and remember, sometimes you just need to cry. I have to watch it doesn't turn into wailing and thrashing cause it feeds on itself and gives me a headache and a swollen face. Writing in my journal seems to be the most helpful and only thing I can manage. May be even better than a shrink. - Barbara

 

Re: Thanks Katy, Katia

Posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 12:25:37

In reply to Thanks Katy, Katia, posted by Barbara Cat on July 30, 2003, at 11:58:15


> Katy, I know what you mean about August. You're the first person I know who feels that way as well. It just feels hot, bright and claustrophobic. I'd much prefer a nice soft rainy day. As you well know, moving is horribly stressful and you either feel it during or afterward.

AAARRGH--I thought I could escape it this time without getting mixed or depressed. They always say that stress can bring on episodes, and I've said it myself. But I hoped this run of stability would hold for awhile. Maybe it won't be that bad this time. I'm at the stage where I'm sleeping at mom and dad's place--my new place isn't ready, and my old place is just empty and depressing. What else can I do but just hang on?

>Don't know if you drink coffee. It's so tempting to use extra caffeine as fuel, but it's very depleting in the long run. I've stopped it since feeling this way and even tho I know it's better for me, the headaches are the pits.

I'm a coffee JUNKY. I drink coffee every day. I usually give it up at this time of year due to panic. But it sure helps to have something to look forward to in the morning when I'm not depressed/panicky.

> Katia, you mentioned you have mixed states and I know Katy is also bipolar. I wonder if this wild torment is unique to our bipolar/mixed-states condition. I don't hear much about this form of 'depression', it's usually the blahs, no motivation, etc., instead of this fractured frightening stuff.

Do you guys ever switch from the mixed stuff into full blown, lethagic, slow depression? I seem to get mixed first (which I think is my form of mania) and then transition into depression (typical depression with loss of appetite, etc. which lasts for a LONG time).

I think August is a peak month for Mania (second to March and April). So I'm not surprised when I look at my history that EVERY August to September I became mixed and then fully depressed. I live in a tropical climate, so the sun gets unbearable for me (both in terms of heat and brightness) at this time. Oh how I long for cool breezes and shivering.

I see my doctor this monday. Maybe something else on board would help. *sigh*

lovins,
Katy

p.s. glad you are feeling better about your hubby.

 

Re: Barb-cat--oh how I know!! » fluffy

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 30, 2003, at 14:27:33

In reply to Re: Barb-cat--oh how I know!!, posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 11:40:46

No, No, I appreciate hearing about other's experiences. It seems the only stuff I read during these times is about people going through similar things. I know you're going through alot right now as well and not that I'd wish it on anyone, I don't feel so alone. It's interesting how symptoms are so similar with mixed bipolars. I didn't know that about August, April. Those are my hardest months. Something about the light? You ought to come up to Oregon to live. Plenty of grey moist weather. I love it, except for August.

Been trying to think about your other question, mania and then depression. I think I get it the other way, feel draggy and blah, can't motivate, hate everything, sleep alot. Then I start feeling the physical symptoms, achey, fried, insomnia, tired and wired. Like the static energy gets dammed up and gets dark and agitated. By the time all that's over I usually feel like I've been given a reprieve, halleluia. Mania mixed states can really take it out of a person, so it's not surprising you'd get depressed afterward, but that doesn't seem to be my cycle. I loved Katia's term - warriors of the psyche, cause it is a battle. I'm very burnt out afterwards, and exploring all this adrenal burnout info, which makes alot of sense.

Know what you mean about coffee. Sometimes it's the only thing I get up for. Maybe when I'm over this spell and things don't affect me so sensitively I'll go back to my one cup cause it's sooooo goooood. Hugs to you too. This moving stuff is a good excuse to get a massage, treat yourself extra special.

> By the way, Barbara--
> I feel that I was mood masturbating just then with my last post. I think all you need is someone to care about you right now. What did I do? Just selfishly complained about MY feelings. So I want to send you the best vibes I can right now of empathy and virtual hugging. (((HUGS)))
> How are you feeling today, sweet Barbara? I hope, hope, hope a little better.
>
> Katy

 

Re: Thanks Katy, Katia » fluffy

Posted by katia on July 30, 2003, at 16:57:53

In reply to Re: Thanks Katy, Katia, posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 12:25:37

>
> > Katy, I know what you mean about August. You're the first person I know who feels that way as well. It just feels hot, bright and claustrophobic. I'd much prefer a nice soft rainy day. As you well know, moving is horribly stressful and you either feel it during or afterward.
>
> AAARRGH--I thought I could escape it this time without getting mixed or depressed. They always say that stress can bring on episodes, and I've said it myself. But I hoped this run of stability would hold for awhile. Maybe it won't be that bad this time. I'm at the stage where I'm sleeping at mom and dad's place--my new place isn't ready, and my old place is just empty and depressing. What else can I do but just hang on?
>
> >Don't know if you drink coffee. It's so tempting to use extra caffeine as fuel, but it's very depleting in the long run. I've stopped it since feeling this way and even tho I know it's better for me, the headaches are the pits.
>
> I'm a coffee JUNKY. I drink coffee every day. I usually give it up at this time of year due to panic. But it sure helps to have something to look forward to in the morning when I'm not depressed/panicky.
>
> > Katia, you mentioned you have mixed states and I know Katy is also bipolar. I wonder if this wild torment is unique to our bipolar/mixed-states condition. I don't hear much about this form of 'depression', it's usually the blahs, no motivation, etc., instead of this fractured frightening stuff.
>
> Do you guys ever switch from the mixed stuff into full blown, lethagic, slow depression? I seem to get mixed first (which I think is my form of mania) and then transition into depression (typical depression with loss of appetite, etc. which lasts for a LONG time).
>
> I think August is a peak month for Mania (second to March and April). So I'm not surprised when I look at my history that EVERY August to September I became mixed and then fully depressed. I live in a tropical climate, so the sun gets unbearable for me (both in terms of heat and brightness) at this time. Oh how I long for cool breezes and shivering.
>
Hi Katy (and Barb),
I seem to not have a noticeable pattern yet. I have always been depressed to different degrees. Always! But looking back, I definitely experience the mixed state prior to a worsening of depression. So I go from mild/mod depression to mixed to mod/severe. I guess you could say. Looking back, there was one summer where I experienced what is probably called mania, in 1988 when I was 17/18 (very euphoric) and I crashed into a bad depression somewhere in the fall and I feel I've never really recovered from that depression. It's just come in degrees with mixed in there too. I've probably only had about a month here and there (total of prob. 6) in the course of 15-20 years, where i felt all storms subside and I just felt good and normal. When that normalcy hits, it normally didn't stay for long as I guess what is called mixed mania or just hypomania hits me and throws me totally out of balance. It's so hard to figure out when during all this time I wasn't addressing it as depression or mania - just "wierd" me who needed to mask it and hide it through various means. it's only been since last summer since I chose to start honestly looking at this and get chemical help. And none of the ADs has worked for me! which led me to my bipolar dx.
yes, I can relate to sticky icky August. Sometimes the long summer bright days are too much for my mood. Sometimes the winter best mirrors what I feel and I don't feel so incongruent. And it goes in reverse too! depending on my mood! I live in the Bay area of California.
good luck with your move. I can empathize as I've moved about six times in the past year and a half! it makes things worse. esp. for those who need vigilant watch on their sensitive balancing act!
be well.
Katia

 

Thanks Katy, Katia

Posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 17:54:37

In reply to Re: Thanks Katy, Katia » fluffy, posted by katia on July 30, 2003, at 16:57:53


> good luck with your move. I can empathize as I've moved about six times in the past year and a half! it makes things worse. esp. for those who need vigilant watch on their sensitive balancing act!
> be well.
> Katia
>
>
Thanks Katia--
I perked up and took notice when you said you had moved 3 times in a year and a half. Me too!! The last time I moved, I was having my most full blown manic episode where I decided that EVERYTHING in my life had to change all at once. This time I've kept my head about it. My friends joke about my constant moves. They always ask, "how many times have you moved since i've known you?" I hope this is the last one before i BUY A DAMNED HOUSE!

The seasonal theory of mood changes holds true for lots of BP folks, but it's not written in stone. You may not really have a regular pattern. For me, there are times when I'm more susceptible to changes...usually when the seasons change. Add some stress or trauma into the mix--and POOF! bad, bad episode. I hate being so damned fragile.

best of luck with you too, Katia!

Katy

 

Re: Thanks Katy, Katia » fluffy

Posted by katia on July 30, 2003, at 23:04:28

In reply to Thanks Katy, Katia, posted by fluffy on July 30, 2003, at 17:54:37

>
> > good luck with your move. I can empathize as I've moved about six times in the past year and a half! it makes things worse. esp. for those who need vigilant watch on their sensitive balancing act!
> > be well.
> > Katia
> >
> >
> Thanks Katia--
> I perked up and took notice when you said you had moved 3 times in a year and a half. Me too!! The last time I moved, I was having my most full blown manic episode where I decided that EVERYTHING in my life had to change all at once. This time I've kept my head about it. My friends joke about my constant moves. They always ask, "how many times have you moved since i've known you?" I hope this is the last one before i BUY A DAMNED HOUSE!
>
> The seasonal theory of mood changes holds true for lots of BP folks, but it's not written in stone. You may not really have a regular pattern. For me, there are times when I'm more susceptible to changes...usually when the seasons change. Add some stress or trauma into the mix--and POOF! bad, bad episode. I hate being so damned fragile.
>
> best of luck with you too, Katia!
>
> Katy
Hi Katy!
I said SIX times!!! It's too much....Over the years, my friends have developed one full address book just for me!
When you say full blown manic episode what do you mean? If I remember correctly your dx is BPII? and you take only Lamictal? forgive me if my memory is off - foggy head and all that. BTW, where do you live - at least which country?
katia

 

Re: Feeling pretty bad » Barbara Cat

Posted by nmk on July 31, 2003, at 13:35:30

In reply to Feeling pretty bad, posted by Barbara Cat on July 29, 2003, at 12:12:10

Hi Barbara,

I haven't been reading posts these past few days but when I read today how badly you were feeling, I wanted to let you know I was thinking about you. You have such a wonderful gift Barbara and you provide me with the inspiration, motivation, and insight to keep pushing on, even through the darkest of moments. Hope is the only thing I am holding onto these days and you have contributed greatly to my persistence and proactive stance with my illness.

I know the feeling of taking one step forward, two back, and I have a tendency to get frustrated to the point of wanting to give into those feelings of negativity and depression. It is like someone is playing a cruel joke on us....we start to feel better, are making progress toward our goals, and we FINALLY believe there is an end to the madness. Then, you awake one morning to find that nothing is certain. One thing I know for sure is that it WILL end. You will regain your fortitude, positive energy, and that sense of humor we all love (ie; dancing queen...loved it!!).

I only hope you continue to post when you need support. You give so much to others and we would do anything for you. Continue to write in your journal, take good care of yourself, and let me know if today is a better day.

Sincerely,

Nicole :)

 

Katia: RE: BP II clinical mumbo jumbo

Posted by fluffy on July 31, 2003, at 14:18:08

In reply to Re: Thanks Katy, Katia » fluffy, posted by katia on July 30, 2003, at 23:04:28

Hey Katia--

As far as I know, I'm not BPI. But I really wouldn't care anymore at this point. So long as the medication makes a dent in my symptoms. Last summer I was continually hypomanic for at least a month. Since I've never had to be hospitalized, heard or seen things (full blown manic) I'm not classified as BPI. I have suffered a great deal from agitated depressions, which I guess are mixed states. And I remember my doc saying the presence of them classifies a person as BPI. (I think mixed states can be mild and full blown just like mania though). The only time I had a full blown mixed state was while on Lexapro. If a mixed state or mania occurs while on an antidepressant, it doesn't "count" towards the diagnosis.

I'm only on Lamictal now, but I may end up adding something else to my cocktail soon. Maybe Depakote or Li. I've had trouble sleeping and having racing thoughts and the like.

best,
katy

 

Re: Katia: RE: BP II clinical mumbo jumbo » fluffy

Posted by katia on July 31, 2003, at 14:49:02

In reply to Katia: RE: BP II clinical mumbo jumbo, posted by fluffy on July 31, 2003, at 14:18:08

I agree to a point that it can mumbo jumbo. But it is also a fresh relief for me to have something solid and revealing about what I've been experiencing most of my life. As much of my life I dismissed psychiatry and depression ,etc. as a bunch of mumbo jumbo - (my denial kicking in). It feels good to give a language to what I've been feeling so as to take steps in order to transform out of this darkness and acknowledge something that is not so much my fault or my **** ups.
If you try depakote, let's keep in touch about it as I'm waiting for mine to come in the mail.
katia

 

Re: Feeling pretty bad » nmk

Posted by Barbara Cat on July 31, 2003, at 16:15:41

In reply to Re: Feeling pretty bad » Barbara Cat, posted by nmk on July 31, 2003, at 13:35:30

Dear Nicole,
Thank you so much, sweetie. You've made a big difference to me today. I feel your care so much. Thank you. Today is up and down, well not really much up. The real hard stuff is the panic attacks, which I haven't had for a few years. I'll wake up out of sleep and be in the middle of one. I can stand anything, but not them. I stopped taking nortriptyline not too long ago and I think this may be a fallout from that, at least in part. The other part is that there's some PTSD flashbacks coming very strong from my, uh, challenging childhood. I never know what I'm supposed to do with this stuff - is it my extra sensitive nervous system due to med withdrawal? Is it something I should be processing?

I've grown weary and suspicious of the whole psychotherapist thing, especially with the in-and-out managed care travesty and health records open to far too many people. Here I am with the only place left to go, and that is Spirit, my inner knowing, and maybe that's what I need to learn. It's as good enough reason as any, I guess. So, luckily, I'm in a position where I'm not working, can swing on my hammock on the porch, pet my cats, ocassionally talk to the hubby, keep taking lithium and lamictal, but by God, I will not go back to an antidepressant again. There's got to be another way. Like you wisely said, we will beat this thing. Maybe not 100% but I'll take what I can get. Love and thanks to you. - Barbara


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