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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daizy on July 12, 2003, at 18:44:23
Im just wondering if what I have is OCD, and if anyone could share their symptoms of OCD with me. See, all I have read from books and such suggests that to have OCD, one must have compulsions aswell, however, I have very few compulsions, but a LOT of obsessing thoughs. Thought rather like paranoia, Obsessing what people think of me, obsessing about my looks, about me weight, about food ect ect.... Does this sound like OCD to anyone? To me, I know my anxiety's stem from me being obsessed about these things, like I get a thought in my head and it stays there, it never goes away, therefore I get anxious? Im looking for clues as to what it is that is wrong with me! Secondly, I dont think that Elavil is much help with ODC, infact I think it does make it worse? Anyone had that experience? What are the best meds for OCD? Thanx in advance to anyone who reads
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on July 12, 2003, at 19:13:03
In reply to OCD people, meds?, please read!, posted by daizy on July 12, 2003, at 18:44:23
I have moderate symptoms of OCD... not sure if they're enough to give me a dx of OCD, but they can be pretty intrusive and annoying. I have this weird thing were I count the numbers of words in sentences, and letters in words. I'm *very* compulsive about that. And you know that whole thing when you're a kid about not stepping on cracks (for fear of breaking your mother's back? <g>)? Well I absolutely *refuse* to step on cracks in tiling and in sidewalks, lol. It sounds totally ridiculous, I know. But on Thursday my pdoc put me on tramadol (generic Ultram) and the symptoms have disappeared entirely. In addition, it's helped enormously with the depression that's returned since I quit Mirapex a few days ago. I'm on 50mg tid now, and when I go back on the 23rd, we're probably raising it to 100mg tid. Seeing as how I've tried every med out there (including Luvox, Anafranil, Zyprexa, Nardil, etc.), I'd have to say that, for me at least, tramadol is the ultimate OCD medication.
Posted by Janelle on July 12, 2003, at 19:17:35
In reply to OCD people, meds?, please read!, posted by daizy on July 12, 2003, at 18:44:23
Hi,
I do not have *full-blown OCD*, but do have at least one trait of it which seems to happen when I'm in a depression ... I do what is called "doubting and checking" - meaning I don't really *believe* that I've done a certain task (say brush my teeth), so I repeat it over and over, several times, till something finally clicks in my brain and I feel *satisfied* that I did indeed do it.
I also have few ritualistic compulsions that are associated with OCD, but like you I do have obsessive thoughts. However, mine are more in the form of an endless tape in my head of thoughts of regretting or second guessing some kind of action I took or something I said or did. Why did I so and so, and this goes over and over and over in my head ...
Your obsessing about what people think of you, obsessing about your looks, about your weight, about food sounds more like some form of insecurity than OCD to me. But I am FARRRR from an expert.
I don't see anything being "terribly wrong" with you - OCD is a form of an ANXIETY disorder, and I would say you have insecurity (don't we all!) and anxiety rather than OCD.
Elavil is an ANTI-DEPRESSANT, so I don't know why your pdoc gave it to you for OCD?!! Or were you depressed at some point and given Elavil?
I took Elavil years ago for depression and it worked for me. But again, that was for depression, NOT OCD.
Anafranil is the *gold standard* med for OCD - it is a TCA like Elavil. A newer generation med for OCD is Luvox, which is an SSRI.
As far as I know, Anafranil and/or Luvox are the meds of choice for OCD.
Posted by Viridis on July 12, 2003, at 21:54:32
In reply to OCD people, meds?, please read!, posted by daizy on July 12, 2003, at 18:44:23
I think what you're describing are "ruminating thoughts" -- negative ideas that you can't get over, playing all the "what if" scenarios even though you know it's not helpful or productive. I used to experience severe episodes of this, associated with anxiety and depression; generally it would be one issue, usually a real one, but I would blow it out of proportion, think of all the possible negative outcomes, etc. I recognized that this wasn't useful, but just couldn't get rid of the negative thoughts.
This is "obsessive", but I'm not sure if it qualifies as OCD. I do have slight compulsive tendencies, especially when I'm tired (e.g., I'll check a door several times to see if it's locked, look in a suitcase 10 times to verify that I packed some important item, and so on), but no compulsions that actually interfere with my life. My sister has been diagnosed with "real" OCD, so there's probably some relationship between the conditions, perhaps with different manifestations and/or degrees of severity.
Klonopin plus occasional Xanax greatly reduced these problems for me. My sister did pretty well with Luvox (fluvoxamine, an SSRI) plus Xanax as needed. I can't tolerate SSRIs at all, but benzos have really helped.
Posted by Anton on July 13, 2003, at 4:19:24
In reply to OCD people, meds?, please read!, posted by daizy on July 12, 2003, at 18:44:23
I have the same form of OCD, obessional thinking, or obessional worrying over something. I didn't realise I had OCD until just recently when it became very bad, where I felt like I was losing control of my thoughts, and couldn't stop thinking about things over and over again, but ever since being just a little dude I would do things like switch my bedroom light switch on and off a number of times before an event that made me anixous, or I would count constantly numbers in my head, and then as I started multiplying them and adding and subtracting, and it was always weird because it was like a sub conscious thing that I had like no control over.....meds of Obessional thinking and OCD are pretty limited, SSRI'S probably won't have much of an effect depending on the OCD of the person...the only thing that works a little bit for me is benzo's. But because in Australia by law a person is only allowed to take benzos for upto 4 weeks only, which sucks majorly, and so I really have to just try and deal with it, and it's hard to deal with obessional thinking when it becomes really bad, I think obessional thinking is worse than obessions that have rituals to follow them, like some people wash themselves a lot, and have fears of being infected, and by doing rituals it usually calms down their anxiety.....but I don't have a ritual, and it seems you don't either, but I do keep my bedroom very clean and hate having things out of order....and still mess around with counting numbers. I am soon starting CBT which I hope works, I think CBT along with a band-aid like valium, or klonopin would be the best thing for you to try.
regards,
Anton.
Posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:07:27
In reply to Re: OCD people, meds?, please read! » daizy, posted by Janelle on July 12, 2003, at 19:17:35
I recently heard this term used to describe what you are talking about: "Tourretic OCD", ie, referring to compulsions done until that "click" feeling happens, and *not* because of a belief that you would be warding off something bad (the more "typcial" idea we think of as OCD).
I think I have a mild case of this. It waxes and wanes, I think, which is one of the characteristics of Tourrette's Syndrome, isn't it? Mostly, I'm not a "checker" but every once in a while I get the doubting thing and have to check something. Mostly, the symptom I think might be Tourretic OCD is my awful habit of skin picking. The only problem is I never really achieve that "click" feeling. So maybe the picking isn't this Tourettic OCD.
Posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:13:57
In reply to Re: OCD people, meds?, please read! » daizy, posted by Viridis on July 12, 2003, at 21:54:32
When I read your post, I had the thought that maybe you doubt and check when you are very tired because in that state of mind, you are not confident of your memory/organization , which makes sense to me--I think I do that too. Then I wondered how it would be for people who chronically lack confidence in their own memory and organizational abilities for other reasons (like ADHD or med-related fogginess, for example)--I could see being a doubter and checker if I felt I couldn't trust my own organization and memory. This does happen to me sometimes, in fact. I think because of my AD meds, I have some mild ADD features (I take adderall for this and to augment the AD effect). Hmm...you've made me think.....thanks.
Posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:15:44
In reply to Re: OCD people, meds?, please read!, posted by Anton on July 13, 2003, at 4:19:24
Like Janelle, I have heard that Anafranil is the only med that gets at obsessions effectively, although I have not personal experience with it. I have heard that SSRIs help with the compulsive aspects of OCD, but not so much with the obsessions.
Posted by Janelle on July 13, 2003, at 14:27:05
In reply to Re: OCD people, meds?, please read! » Janelle, posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:07:27
I think you hit the nail on the head with the "Tourretic OCD", ie, referring to compulsions done until that "click" feeling happens, and *not* because of a belief that you would be warding off something bad (the more "typcial" idea we think of as OCD). Because after I've brushed my teeth several times I DO literally feel a "click" in my brain that tells me okay, you HAVE done it! This "click" feeling has occurred with other doubting & checking I do!
Mine also waxes and wanes! Thanks for the info! It is reassuring!
Posted by avid abulia on July 13, 2003, at 17:55:59
In reply to NOA - thanks and more: » noa, posted by Janelle on July 13, 2003, at 14:27:05
Inversine hasn't gotten a lot of play... it was the first ever oral antihypertensive agent, and is a nicotinic ACh antagonist.
It has recently been found to be moderately effective in Tourette's syndrome in general, and very effective in Tourette's syndrome associated with prominent OCD and depressive features. It is now being tested for bipolar disorder, and is being found useful for depressive symptoms in that disorder as well. i expect it will soon enough become a very popular drug, once the retailer decides to jack the price up and push it hard on doctors.
I was on it for a while, it was actually *the* most effective drug for my OCD and depression i ever took (not so much for my tics, though, for some reason)... but i had to discontinue it because of some complications due to also having an eating disorder.
Some doctors are reporting success with so-called "pure" OCD, as well. Down-regulation of central nicotinic receptors is a major effect of SSRIs, so it would make good sense.
~AA
Posted by McPac on July 14, 2003, at 0:12:46
In reply to Re: OCD people, meds?, please read!, posted by Anton on July 13, 2003, at 4:19:24
"SSRI'S probably won't have much of an effect depending on the OCD of the person."
>>>>>>>>>SSRI's are VERY frequently and effectively used for ocd for MANY people.
Posted by McPac on July 14, 2003, at 0:13:47
In reply to inversine, posted by avid abulia on July 13, 2003, at 17:55:59
Posted by noa on July 14, 2003, at 0:32:29
In reply to NOA - thanks and more: » noa, posted by Janelle on July 13, 2003, at 14:27:05
Janelle, if you find out more about this idea of "Tourettic OCD", let me know.
I was doing some browsing today and came across the Trichotillomania Learning Center web site (http://www.trich.org/home/default.asp?FC=4313165). They include skin picking as a form of trichotillomania, which they also include in "OCD spectrum disorders". The way skin picking is described there fits my feeling--very much like trich, I think.
I think I might consult a behavior specialist sometime soon, and also talk to my psychopharm about it, as well.
Take care.
Posted by Viridis on July 15, 2003, at 2:15:06
In reply to Re: OCD people, meds?, please read! » Viridis, posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:13:57
Hi Noa,
I have ADD too, and take Adderall (and now Strattera as well) for that, which help a lot. But I started those well after benzos, and Klonopin seems to have made the most difference for ruminating thoughts. The Adderall and Strattera help keep me focused and improve my mood, and the Klonopin tones down my exaggerated worry and "what if" syndrome.
Strattera is a recent addition and I find it very helpful, but Adderall plus Klonopin was a powerful combo in itself. The ADs I tried (Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin etc.) just made things worse, and now I avoid them, which my pdoc agrees with.
Bit by bit, things are getting better.
Posted by ian24 on July 17, 2003, at 18:30:17
In reply to Re: OCD people, meds?, please read! » Janelle, posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:07:27
I was diagnosed as Mild ocd. I had intrusive thoughts like if I saw a knife id be afraid id cut myself with it without control.Never acted on such thoughts so that makes it ocd. With Luvox and the realization that these thought don't make me a "psycho" I got over it. I also have the self centered fear you describe. Ad's that are "sedating" help and so does stuff like klonopin. I found that Paxil was the best drug for this but it had bad sex side affects for me. Also therpay is crucial to this. I learned all about this thinking in a 12 step program which helped soo much. So therapy is huge with this. Hope I helped you. It's like living under a magnifying glass but really no one is paying THAT much attention to us. They're thinking of their problems ;)
Posted by daizy on July 18, 2003, at 16:59:23
In reply to Daizi, posted by ian24 on July 17, 2003, at 18:30:17
Yes Thanx. I think what I have is mild, but sometimes when the anxiety is at a low, the ocd rears its ugly head! Im getting used to it now, I suppose its more about trusting myself and knowing that Im not going to act on my thoughts!
> I was diagnosed as Mild ocd. I had intrusive thoughts like if I saw a knife id be afraid id cut myself with it without control.Never acted on such thoughts so that makes it ocd. With Luvox and the realization that these thought don't make me a "psycho" I got over it. I also have the self centered fear you describe. Ad's that are "sedating" help and so does stuff like klonopin. I found that Paxil was the best drug for this but it had bad sex side affects for me. Also therpay is crucial to this. I learned all about this thinking in a 12 step program which helped soo much. So therapy is huge with this. Hope I helped you. It's like living under a magnifying glass but really no one is paying THAT much attention to us. They're thinking of their problems ;)
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