Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 202372

Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Is NADH really safe???

Posted by Lawrence S. on February 21, 2003, at 1:57:10

Any comments or knowledge on Coenzyme1 appreciated. I truly hope it is the bomb! I'm just a little concerned because it's starting to sound a little like GHB did when it first came out.

 

Re: Is NADH really safe??? » Lawrence S.

Posted by Ron Hill on February 22, 2003, at 12:06:07

In reply to Is NADH really safe???, posted by Lawrence S. on February 21, 2003, at 1:57:10

Lawrence,

Everything I've read indicates that NADH (coenzyme 1) is safe. Every cell of all living things already contains some coenzyme 1. Enada NADH is the only stabilized absorbable form of NADH currently available.

A couple of cautionary notes: Too much of this stuff can cause irritability and/or anxiety, and it is my opinion that bipolar patients should have a moodstabilizer fully in place before taking Enada NADH to prevent hypomania.

If you haven't already, enter "NADH" in your search engine and/or check out the links provided below.

-- Ron

Here are some of the links discussing NADH:

http://www.healthwell.com/hnbreakthroughs/mar98/nadh.cfm?path=hw

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8101444&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9247090&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9013405&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.nadh.com/site7/SYSact20.htm#Top

http://www.nadh.com/site7/RSdprs05.htm#Top

http://www.smart-drugs.com/article-JamesSouth-NADH.htm

http://www.nadh-priceinfo.org/

http://qualitycounts.com/fpnadh.html

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3118/T/Both/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12385067&dopt=Abstract

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/powersearch2.cfm (Note: enter “NADH” as keyword)

--------------------------------


> Any comments or knowledge on Coenzyme1 appreciated. I truly hope it is the bomb! I'm just a little concerned because it's starting to sound a little like GHB did when it first came out.

 

Re: Is NADH really safe??? » Lawrence S.

Posted by colin wallace on February 23, 2003, at 8:22:44

In reply to Is NADH really safe???, posted by Lawrence S. on February 21, 2003, at 1:57:10

> Any comments or knowledge on Coenzyme1 appreciated. I truly hope it is the bomb! I'm just a little concerned because it's starting to sound a little like GHB did when it first came out.

Lawrence,

This is the only hint of caution I've been able to dig up so far on NADH...


http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10047,00.html


>> Possible Side Effects


High doses of NADH (10 mg a day or more) may cause jitteriness, anxiety, and insomnia.

Cautions


The safety of long-term treatment with oral NADH remains unclear. Most sources recommend using it for periods of no more than four months, then taking a month off before starting again. An alternative is to take it only two or three times a week, rather than daily.

 

Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks » colin wallace

Posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 12:10:56

In reply to Re: Is NADH really safe??? » Lawrence S., posted by colin wallace on February 23, 2003, at 8:22:44

Colin,

I ran into a small problem with Enada NADH so I want to let you know about it and I want to document it on this board. After four weeks of excellent results using 5 mg/day of Enada NADH (one dose in the morning), it began to make me VERY sleepy about four hours after taking the dose. Two days ago (i.e.; Saturday), it made me so sleepy that I could not stay awake, so I gave in and took a three hour nap. When I woke up I felt somewhat like I do on an SSRI; content (kind of an artificial happy feeling) and no irritability, but blunted emotions and "do nothing boy" ambitions.

Initially when this stuff started to make me sleepy, I thought that I was building a tolerance to the supplement and that I would need to take more to regain the effectiveness. However, on Saturday night I decided to skip the following day's dose to see what would happen. Your post yesterday (Sunday) reaffirmed my decision to skip a day or two. Thanks for the link!

As it turns out, the sleepiness side effect was apparently due to taking too much Enada NADH because when I skipped my dose yesterday (Sunday) I felt excellent again and no sleepiness. I could still feel the positive effects of the supplement working in my brain and body even though I did not take the day's dose.

Bottom line: I'm apparently still in the process of figuring out the appropriate dose. I'm going to order some 2.5 mg enteric coated tablets and, in the meantime, I'm going to try taking a 5 mg tablet only two or three times per week. Ray Sahelian, M.D., in his book titled "Mind Boosters: A Guide to Natural Supplements that Enhance Your Mind, Memory, and Mood", recommends taking no more than 2.5 mg two or three times per week. His main concerns are the potential for building a tolerance to NADH and that the medical community doesn't know a lot about this stuff yet. It's my opinion that his dose guidelines may be a little overly conservative for the therapeutic treatment of depression. Be well, Colin, and stay in touch.

This is for benefit of the readers of this post who may not have read my prior posts on this topic: A little more than four weeks ago I added Enada NADH to my 600 mg/day of Lithobid and it has provided remarkable effectiveness for my BP II atypical depression (low motivation, anergy, anhedonia, hypersomnia) and extreme irritability (dysphoric mood states). I stared out taking 10 mg/day but cut back to 5 mg/day ten days into the trial when it began to CAUSE irritability. I continued taking 5 mg/day with great success until a few days ago when this sleepiness side effect presented.

-- Ron
------------------------


> Lawrence,
>
> This is the only hint of caution I've been able to dig up so far on NADH...
>
>
> http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10047,00.html
>
>
> >> Possible Side Effects
>
>
> High doses of NADH (10 mg a day or more) may cause jitteriness, anxiety, and insomnia.
>
> Cautions
>
>
> The safety of long-term treatment with oral NADH remains unclear. Most sources recommend using it for periods of no more than four months, then taking a month off before starting again. An alternative is to take it only two or three times a week, rather than daily.
>
>

 

Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks » Ron Hill

Posted by hok on February 24, 2003, at 12:31:56

In reply to Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks » colin wallace, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 12:10:56

I also have had occassional sleepy bouts while taking the NADH. But overall it's still quite effective.

I found that a good augmentor to the NADH has been a moderate dose of pregnenolone (25-40mg) in the morning. Thus far, I haven't had any probs with the sleepiness. I sometimes also cheat and have a little caffeine in the morning before the NADH kicks in. So far, it's been working well.

HK

 

Re: Dose and Dosing Frequency of Enada NADH » hok

Posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 13:43:48

In reply to Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks » Ron Hill, posted by hok on February 24, 2003, at 12:31:56

Hok,

How much Enada NADH are you taking? Do you take it as one dose, or do you split it up over the course of the day? Do you take it every day or do you skip days? Thanks.

-- Ron
--------------------------------

> I also have had occassional sleepy bouts while taking the NADH. But overall it's still quite effective.
>
> I found that a good augmentor to the NADH has been a moderate dose of pregnenolone (25-40mg) in the morning. Thus far, I haven't had any probs with the sleepiness. I sometimes also cheat and have a little caffeine in the morning before the NADH kicks in. So far, it's been working well.
>
> HK

 

Re: Dose and Dosing Frequency of Enada NADH

Posted by hok on February 24, 2003, at 13:57:06

In reply to Re: Dose and Dosing Frequency of Enada NADH » hok, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 13:43:48

I take it everyday, all at once, first thing when I wake. Like Sahelian says, I definitely think there's a tolerance effect, but I don't think that taking it every other day is going to increase its effectiveness at all or decrease the tolerance adaption for me.

 

Thanks for the update » Ron Hill

Posted by johnj on February 24, 2003, at 15:08:10

In reply to Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks » colin wallace, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 12:10:56

Hey Ron,

Thanks again for the congrats on the exam, it was a relief. Now, if my boss was not such a di*k things would be fine. Do you have a link as to where 2.5 mg tablets are available? Thanks and take care.
johnj

 

Re: Enada NADH 2.5 mg Tablet Size Link » johnj

Posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 15:35:07

In reply to Thanks for the update » Ron Hill, posted by johnj on February 24, 2003, at 15:08:10

John,

Here's a link. By pure random chance, it just happens to be the first one on my bookmark list in my Enada NADH on-line store category. Other sites might have lower prices, better service, etc. Enter "Enada NADH" in your search engine and you'll be inundated with a ton of sites trying to sell you the stuff.

http://www.iherb.com/enada.html

Best wishes, John. Play nice with your co-workers and management. Having a job is something to be thankful about. Yes, I know he is a pain in the butt, but turn the other cheek. :)

-- Ron
--------------------------------------


> Hey Ron,
>
> Thanks again for the congrats on the exam, it was a relief. Now, if my boss was not such a di*k things would be fine. Do you have a link as to where 2.5 mg tablets are available? Thanks and take care.
> johnj

 

Re: Enada NADH 2.5 mg Tablet Size Link

Posted by SLS on February 24, 2003, at 18:04:45

In reply to Re: Enada NADH 2.5 mg Tablet Size Link » johnj, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 15:35:07

Hi.

What is 'Enada'?

Thanks.


- Scott

 

Re: What is Enada, you ask? » SLS

Posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 18:58:05

In reply to Re: Enada NADH 2.5 mg Tablet Size Link, posted by SLS on February 24, 2003, at 18:04:45

Hi Scott,

As I understand it, "Enada" is the trade name registered to the Menco Corporation for their patented product. Enada NADH is the only stabilized and orally absorbable form of NADH currently available. It is licensed to many different distributors so several brand names of Enada NADH are on the market. Prior to the development of the enteric-coated Enada NADH tablets, NADH could only be given intravenously because stomach acid would rapidly destroy the delicate molecule.

Scott, I'll include a few links below for you to scan if you have the time and the interest. If you have any thoughts after scanning the information and have time to post, I’d be interested in reading your thinking on the matter.

As you have probably read, I'm in the fifth week of an Enada NADH trial. It immediately snapped me out of a 3-month deep atypical depression (low motivation, anergy, anhedonia, hypersomnia) and took away my dysphoric mood states (extreme irritability). It remains to be seen whether it will provide long-term effectiveness. Time will tell.

-- Ron


Here are some of the links discussing Enada NADH:

http://www.healthwell.com/hnbreakthroughs/mar98/nadh.cfm?path=hw

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8101444&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9247090&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9013405&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10047,00.html#Cautions

http://www.nadh.com/site7/SYSact20.htm#Top

http://www.nadh.com/site7/RSdprs05.htm#Top

http://www.smart-drugs.com/article-JamesSouth-NADH.htm

http://www.nadh-priceinfo.org/

http://qualitycounts.com/fpnadh.html

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3118/T/Both/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12385067&dopt=Abstract

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/powersearch2.cfm (Note: enter “NADH” as keyword)
-------------------------------------------------


> Hi.
>
> What is 'Enada'?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re:The other cheekkk » Ron Hill

Posted by johnj on February 24, 2003, at 19:42:56

In reply to Re: Enada NADH 2.5 mg Tablet Size Link » johnj, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 15:35:07

Thanks for the info Ron,
Yes, I know what you mean about the job. At least this job allows me to get by when I am not at my best. A high stress job would crack me and I have accepted that. But, I sure would like to turn the other cheek...just not the one on my face ;). He has run out 4 engineers and support staff because he is just a plain unhappy person. It is so hard judging how much the BS affects my mood and thus my sleep. If he could only be given a conscience he would see how he hurts people. I have never met anyone like him and his boss, with whom I talked with today, is a good guy but the "lets all just get" along type. Not easy to do when some don't play fair. My job could be so interesting.

My wife finally found something last October and the people she works with are so great. I envy her, but I wouldn't switch places with her because she deserves a good bunch. I will grin and bear it and just do what I can and ask for some divine intervention if I get too upset. Sorry for the ramble. Take care
johnj

 

NADH-3 Q's for responders... NonResponder Q too

Posted by michael on February 24, 2003, at 22:57:58

In reply to Re: What is Enada, you ask? » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 18:58:05

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone has tried this and not noticed any changes - either positive or negative?

I tried it [sometime last year, I think - don't recall the specifics... 5 or 10 mg/day for at least two or three weeks] and didn't notice any improvement/decline/etc.

Now thinking about giving it another trial...

To those who have had success w/it:

How much / often do you take it? (i.e.: 5mg twice a day?)

How much time before before you were able to notice its effects?

What other meds do you take w/it?

Thanks for any feedback.

michael

 

Re: NADH-3 Q's for responders... NonResponder Q too » michael

Posted by Ron Hill on February 25, 2003, at 12:11:41

In reply to NADH-3 Q's for responders... NonResponder Q too, posted by michael on February 24, 2003, at 22:57:58

Michael,

> To those who have had success w/it:

That's me!

> How much / often do you take it? (i.e.: 5mg twice a day?)

I started out taking 10 mg/day of the sublingual formulation (EnadAlert NADH). After ten days, however, this dose (and formulation) induced irritability. So I switched to one 5 mg enteric-coated Enada NADH tablet per day. After four weeks of remarkable results in the treatment of my atypical depression (low motivation, anergy, anhedonia, hypersomnia) and dysphoric mood states (extreme irritability), I began to get VERY sleepy about four hours after my dose. Therefore, I skipped my dose for two days. The sleepiness went away the first skipped day and the positive benefits remained. I'm currently in the process of determining the best dose for me.

Ray Sahelian, M.D., in his book titled "Mind Boosters: A Guide to Natural Supplements that Enhance Your Mind, Memory, and Mood", recommends taking no more than 2.5 mg two or three times per week. His main concerns regarding higher doses are the potential for building a tolerance to NADH and that the medical community doesn't know a lot about this stuff yet. My preliminary assessment is that I'll probably end up taking about 2.5 mg three times per week as a maintenance dose. Time will tell with regard to the dose and whether this stuff has any long-term effectiveness.

> How much time before before you were able to notice its effects?

I felt my atypical depression begin to lift within thirty seconds after placing the sublingual tablet under my tongue. Within three days, my depression and dysphoric mood states were in complete remission. It snapped me out of a three-month long bout with a deep depression that I just could not pull myself out of.

> What other meds do you take w/it?

I'm BP II and I take 600 mg/day of Lithobid. I think the Enada NADH might have pushed me (as a BP II) into hypomania if I had not had a moodstabilizer fully in place beforehand.

> Thanks for any feedback.

Michael, was it Enada NADH that you tried previously, or was it some other type of NADH? The reason I ask is that Enada NADH is the only stabilized and orally absorbable form of NADH currently available. It is, however, licensed to many different distributors so several brand names of Enada NADH are on the market. Prior to the development of the stabilized enteric-coated Enada NADH tablets, NADH could only be given intravenously because stomach acid would rapidly destroy the delicate molecule.

Best wishes.

-- Ron

 

Re: Dose and Dosing Frequency of Enada NADH » hok

Posted by Ron Hill on February 25, 2003, at 12:53:05

In reply to Re: Dose and Dosing Frequency of Enada NADH, posted by hok on February 24, 2003, at 13:57:06

> I take it everyday, all at once, first thing when I wake. Like Sahelian says, I definitely think there's a tolerance effect, but I don't think that taking it every other day is going to increase its effectiveness at all or decrease the tolerance adaption for me.
------------------------------

Hok,

So you’ve been taking 5 mg/day for about four weeks, right?

I skipped taking Enada NADH for the past two days. The sleepiness went away the first day and did not come back. I obtained improved results by skipping days. I took 5 mg this morning and I think that I should have skipped at least one more day. I'm not sleepy, and I'm doing very well, but I felt even better (cognitively, motivationally, and mood-wise) on my "skip days". I have a hunch that my maintenance dose will end up around 2.5 mg three times per week, but time will tell.

Hok, may I make a suggestion? Skip a day and see what it does. It might get even better. Given the price they charge for this stuff and if I can get even better results using a lower dose, then it’s a no-brainer. YMMV.

Hey, were you able to get totally away from the smokes?

-- Ron

 

Re: Dose and Dosing Frequency of Enada NADH » Ron Hill

Posted by hok on February 25, 2003, at 15:11:33

In reply to Re: Dose and Dosing Frequency of Enada NADH » hok, posted by Ron Hill on February 25, 2003, at 12:53:05

Thanks for the tip Ron. I will definitely try the every-other day option.

I just got my order of sublingual selegiline in today and I plan to give this a whirl for a week instead of the NADH. Since I'm quite happy with NADH's benefits thus far, this trial of selegiline + DLPA will have to be fairly effective for me to give up the NADH.

As for the smokes, I've gone stretches of days without smoking. And the days when I do, I find myself smoking a lot less cigarettes. The NADH has definitely helped in this regard. In reality, however, nothing has come close to replacing the frequent nicotine hit yet. Wish me luck.

 

Re: NADH-3 Q's for responders... NonResponder Q too » Ron Hill

Posted by michael on February 25, 2003, at 17:47:14

In reply to Re: NADH-3 Q's for responders... NonResponder Q too » michael, posted by Ron Hill on February 25, 2003, at 12:11:41

> Michael, was it Enada NADH that you tried previously, or was it some other type of NADH? The reason I ask is that Enada NADH is the only stabilized and orally absorbable form of NADH currently available. It is, however, licensed to many different distributors so several brand names of Enada NADH are on the market. Prior to the development of the stabilized enteric-coated Enada NADH tablets, NADH could only be given intravenously because stomach acid would rapidly destroy the delicate molecule.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> -- Ron
>

Ron,

Thanks for the feedback. In answer to your question, yes, it was enada nadh (fwiw, from pro health, inc.). 5 mg tablets, and says that its the only stabilized and orally absorbable form of NADH currently available - as you said.

Glad to hear you're getting such good results. I've got a full box of 60 5 mg tablets left - maybe I'll have to try it again.

Thanks.

michael

 

Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks

Posted by kramlow on February 28, 2003, at 4:31:32

In reply to Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks » colin wallace, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 12:10:56

I've been taking 20-25 mg. of Enada per DAY for the last few years, however, it doesn't seem to be doing anything for me anymore. (I take it for CFS.) I'm thinking of going off of it for a while and seeing what happens. Intitially, it was a life-saver even though it took about 2-3 months to notice a difference. I started off on one 5 mg. Enada per day, then up to 10 mg., and so on until I reached my current dose. But it just doesn't seem to be effective anymore - although I have to admit I haven't had any muscle aches since I started taking Enada about 3.5 to 4 years ago. It could be coincidence.

 

Re: Long-term Experience using Enada NADH » kramlow

Posted by Ron Hill on February 28, 2003, at 11:07:29

In reply to Re: Small problem with Enada NADH after 4 weeks, posted by kramlow on February 28, 2003, at 4:31:32

Kramlow,

Thank you for posting your less-than-optimal long-term experience with Enada NADH. Boy, your dose must cost you about four bucks (US) per day.

I'm continuing to titrate my dose in the downward direction. I think the maintence dose for my atypical depression and dysphoric mood states will be in the neighborhood of 2.5 mg two or three times per week. It continues to work well for me, but time will tell if it remains effective in the long-term.

-- Ron
----------------------------------

> I've been taking 20-25 mg. of Enada per DAY for the last few years, however, it doesn't seem to be doing anything for me anymore. (I take it for CFS.) I'm thinking of going off of it for a while and seeing what happens. Intitially, it was a life-saver even though it took about 2-3 months to notice a difference. I started off on one 5 mg. Enada per day, then up to 10 mg., and so on until I reached my current dose. But it just doesn't seem to be effective anymore - although I have to admit I haven't had any muscle aches since I started taking Enada about 3.5 to 4 years ago. It could be coincidence.

 

Re: Long-term Experience using Enada NADH » Ron Hill

Posted by hok on February 28, 2003, at 12:24:21

In reply to Re: Long-term Experience using Enada NADH » kramlow, posted by Ron Hill on February 28, 2003, at 11:07:29

Ron,

I just wanted to update you on my experience thus far with the substitution of the NADH for sublingual selegiline. It's only been 4 days since I started it but I feel pretty great. I've been hesistant of posting my results thus far, since I don't like to cry wolf early on. But since we seem to be fairly similar in our symptomology, I thought I'd let you know how it's going. In terms of the anhedonia, the selegiline has been much more effective. I also am much more social and have a lot more energy throughout the day. Only problems thus far have been some insomnia issues - but no daytime sleepiness (like I experienced with the NADH). My other fear before starting the selegiline was that it would cause too much of an increase in anxiety. This has not been the case though so far. I do feel a little wired at times, but I think this is a matter of playing with the dosages and adapting to its effects. Right now, I think that 80% of its effectiveness is coming from the drug and about 20% is coming from the added AD effect from mild sleep deprivation.

I've been taking 10-12 mg of sublingual deprenyl drops per day (in 2 divided doses). And I've been augmenting with either 200-400 mg of tyrosine or 200-300mg of DLPA. So far, I prefer the tyrosine as an augmentor instead of the DLPA since it's a little smoother and makes me less wired. There might be a point where I discontinue the augmentation all together.

I originally tried the oral tablets a couple years and remember hating it. I think this was due to the effect of the metabolites though. Now I think I know why -- I just read a study that showed that the metabolites can be a major cause of anxiety/depression, and that a low dose of oral selegiline alone actually decreases serotonergic function and causes a much less smooth administation [upanddown effect] of the dopaminergic/PEA transmission. I haven't experienced this problem at all with the liquid form (probably because the metabolites remain much less lower than the oral form).

From what everybody's said, the MAO-B inhibition itself [at the 10-15mg range]-- without the start of MAO-A inhibition -- wouldn't be enough to be have an antidepressant effect. Seemingly only a small majority has found this to be a viable augmentor. In terms of augmentation, I can definitely say this works though. I am on a low dose of celexa as well. Without the SSRI, the selegiline just might be useless, but together, they're fairly effective.

As for the differences between the oral tablets vs the sublingual form -- I definitely believe the sublingual form is superior, for the aforementioned reasons. However, there are some drawbacks. Price is the biggest. From the source I ordered it from, the tablets are a third cheaper than the liquid form ($.14 vs $.23 per mg). Secondly, I'm not convinced that the drops are being fully absorbed under my tongue. I wait about four minutes for absorption to occur and then I swallow any remaining liquid in my mouth to insure full potency. Thirdly, I don't know how long the liquid form stays in the bloodstream. Perhaps it might be less than the oral form, I don't know. But I can say I do feel the effects all day long.

In the end, I think the patch will be a huge improvement -- but the sublingual version is halfway there.

Just thought I'd let you know how it's going. I'll report back in a few days as the drug starts to take its full effects.

HK

 

Re: Sublingual Selegiline » hok

Posted by Ron Hill on February 28, 2003, at 13:17:48

In reply to Re: Long-term Experience using Enada NADH » Ron Hill, posted by hok on February 28, 2003, at 12:24:21

HK,

Thanks for the detailed post. If Enada NADH poops out on me, I may do a trial of sublingual Selegiline. I've bookmarked your post in my Selegiline e-folder for future reference. Please keep us advised of your progress with this medication.

-- Ron
-------------------------------------


> Ron,
>
> I just wanted to update you on my experience thus far with the substitution of the NADH for sublingual selegiline. It's only been 4 days since I started it but I feel pretty great. I've been hesistant of posting my results thus far, since I don't like to cry wolf early on. But since we seem to be fairly similar in our symptomology, I thought I'd let you know how it's going. In terms of the anhedonia, the selegiline has been much more effective. I also am much more social and have a lot more energy throughout the day. Only problems thus far have been some insomnia issues - but no daytime sleepiness (like I experienced with the NADH). My other fear before starting the selegiline was that it would cause too much of an increase in anxiety. This has not been the case though so far. I do feel a little wired at times, but I think this is a matter of playing with the dosages and adapting to its effects. Right now, I think that 80% of its effectiveness is coming from the drug and about 20% is coming from the added AD effect from mild sleep deprivation.
>
> I've been taking 10-12 mg of sublingual deprenyl drops per day (in 2 divided doses). And I've been augmenting with either 200-400 mg of tyrosine or 200-300mg of DLPA. So far, I prefer the tyrosine as an augmentor instead of the DLPA since it's a little smoother and makes me less wired. There might be a point where I discontinue the augmentation all together.
>
> I originally tried the oral tablets a couple years and remember hating it. I think this was due to the effect of the metabolites though. Now I think I know why -- I just read a study that showed that the metabolites can be a major cause of anxiety/depression, and that a low dose of oral selegiline alone actually decreases serotonergic function and causes a much less smooth administation [upanddown effect] of the dopaminergic/PEA transmission. I haven't experienced this problem at all with the liquid form (probably because the metabolites remain much less lower than the oral form).
>
> From what everybody's said, the MAO-B inhibition itself [at the 10-15mg range]-- without the start of MAO-A inhibition -- wouldn't be enough to be have an antidepressant effect. Seemingly only a small majority has found this to be a viable augmentor. In terms of augmentation, I can definitely say this works though. I am on a low dose of celexa as well. Without the SSRI, the selegiline just might be useless, but together, they're fairly effective.
>
> As for the differences between the oral tablets vs the sublingual form -- I definitely believe the sublingual form is superior, for the aforementioned reasons. However, there are some drawbacks. Price is the biggest. From the source I ordered it from, the tablets are a third cheaper than the liquid form ($.14 vs $.23 per mg). Secondly, I'm not convinced that the drops are being fully absorbed under my tongue. I wait about four minutes for absorption to occur and then I swallow any remaining liquid in my mouth to insure full potency. Thirdly, I don't know how long the liquid form stays in the bloodstream. Perhaps it might be less than the oral form, I don't know. But I can say I do feel the effects all day long.
>
> In the end, I think the patch will be a huge improvement -- but the sublingual version is halfway there.
>
> Just thought I'd let you know how it's going. I'll report back in a few days as the drug starts to take its full effects.
>
> HK
>
>

 

Re: Long-term Experience using Enada NADH » hok

Posted by stan_the_man70 on June 8, 2015, at 14:24:29

In reply to Re: Long-term Experience using Enada NADH » Ron Hill, posted by hok on February 28, 2003, at 12:24:21

anyone still trying out Enada/NADH ?

> Ron,
>
> I just wanted to update you on my experience thus far with the substitution of the NADH for sublingual selegiline. It's only been 4 days since I started it but I feel pretty great. I've been hesistant of posting my results thus far, since I don't like to cry wolf early on. But since we seem to be fairly similar in our symptomology, I thought I'd let you know how it's going. In terms of the anhedonia, the selegiline has been much more effective. I also am much more social and have a lot more energy throughout the day. Only problems thus far have been some insomnia issues - but no daytime sleepiness (like I experienced with the NADH). My other fear before starting the selegiline was that it would cause too much of an increase in anxiety. This has not been the case though so far. I do feel a little wired at times, but I think this is a matter of playing with the dosages and adapting to its effects. Right now, I think that 80% of its effectiveness is coming from the drug and about 20% is coming from the added AD effect from mild sleep deprivation.
>
> I've been taking 10-12 mg of sublingual deprenyl drops per day (in 2 divided doses). And I've been augmenting with either 200-400 mg of tyrosine or 200-300mg of DLPA. So far, I prefer the tyrosine as an augmentor instead of the DLPA since it's a little smoother and makes me less wired. There might be a point where I discontinue the augmentation all together.
>
> I originally tried the oral tablets a couple years and remember hating it. I think this was due to the effect of the metabolites though. Now I think I know why -- I just read a study that showed that the metabolites can be a major cause of anxiety/depression, and that a low dose of oral selegiline alone actually decreases serotonergic function and causes a much less smooth administation [upanddown effect] of the dopaminergic/PEA transmission. I haven't experienced this problem at all with the liquid form (probably because the metabolites remain much less lower than the oral form).
>
> From what everybody's said, the MAO-B inhibition itself [at the 10-15mg range]-- without the start of MAO-A inhibition -- wouldn't be enough to be have an antidepressant effect. Seemingly only a small majority has found this to be a viable augmentor. In terms of augmentation, I can definitely say this works though. I am on a low dose of celexa as well. Without the SSRI, the selegiline just might be useless, but together, they're fairly effective.
>
> As for the differences between the oral tablets vs the sublingual form -- I definitely believe the sublingual form is superior, for the aforementioned reasons. However, there are some drawbacks. Price is the biggest. From the source I ordered it from, the tablets are a third cheaper than the liquid form ($.14 vs $.23 per mg). Secondly, I'm not convinced that the drops are being fully absorbed under my tongue. I wait about four minutes for absorption to occur and then I swallow any remaining liquid in my mouth to insure full potency. Thirdly, I don't know how long the liquid form stays in the bloodstream. Perhaps it might be less than the oral form, I don't know. But I can say I do feel the effects all day long.
>
> In the end, I think the patch will be a huge improvement -- but the sublingual version is halfway there.
>
> Just thought I'd let you know how it's going. I'll report back in a few days as the drug starts to take its full effects.
>
> HK
>
>


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