Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 201313

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

confused and fed-up..again..

Posted by Peter on February 17, 2003, at 22:20:25

Every time I think things are finally ok and stable, everything gets messed up. I've been taking lamictal since October as a sort of 'last try' with anticonvulsant mood-stabilizers. Depakote made me lethargic and didn't help at all with my other syptoms, like general and social anxiety. Nuerontin gave me intense derealization and made me even more unstable. In terms of non-anticonvulsant attempts to treat my 'mild bipolar' diagnosis (I guess dysthymia with social anxiety is a better way to put it), I've tried almost everything-Lithium (made me dizzy and depressed), various combinations of SSRI's (worked good for my social anxieties, but caused hypomania and alcohol cravings), different beta-blockers, dopamine-agonists (permax, mirapex), stimulants (concerta, adderall, adderallXR, Dexedrine spansules-now taking adderall), benzos (klonopin and temazepam-still taking both), and probably more cocktails I can't even remember. Some pdocs said I have bipolar unspecified; others said I do not have any bipolar disorder ,but rather depressive anxiety; some said I have ADD, others said I don't. I'm just so sick of it-my current pdoc believes that I have a certain level of bipolarity that, though not 'severe', is very hard to treat because there are so many comorbid symptoms. He has always insisted on mood-stabilizers for me, and he really pushed Lamictal back in October, saying 'this one's different..it's got the best anti-depressant effects, won't make you lethargic but also won't 'cause you to switch into hypomania like the SSRI's do.' So that's the impression I had when I began lamictal-I've been trying to stay optimistic ever since, while we've been very slowly titrating the dose. I was extremely unstable and just horrible for a while, because he took me off zoloft rapidly and then depakote and my neurotransmitters were firing all over the place. Now, after having been off of SSRI's and depakote for a while, I'm already up to 100mg lamictal. Though I also take 20mg adderall bid and I only take my klonopin at night, I find that I'm beginning to experience just as much of a dampened mood with just as much sporadic derealization and spaciness as I did taking depakote or neurontin. And my social anxiety and apprehensions are worse than ever. As always, my pdoc keeps telling me to hang in there, stick with it, etc. Meanwhile I've been engaged for almost a year and the relationship is completely falling apart because of my instability; for instance, I would agree to go to all these social events with my fiancee-even just simple things like going back to Michigan with her to spend time with her and her family or to go to one of her realtive's weddings. So I'd agree to go, and then last minute I'd just freak out and feel paralyzed and cancel on her. I've asked my pdoc what to do; he says the SSRI's are no solution for me, TCA's would make me even more prone to hypomania, and MAOI's would freak me out because of all the dietary restrictions and med interactions. So he keeps saying I should stick with the lamictal-that as we raise it I'll feel better. But the more we raise it, the more lethargic and spaced I feel.
I guess I'm just trying to express my frustration that there just doesn't seem to be any solution in sight. I really am sick of all of this.
sorry for the length-I really had to vent,
Peter

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again..

Posted by Phil on February 17, 2003, at 23:46:52

In reply to confused and fed-up..again.., posted by Peter on February 17, 2003, at 22:20:25

I'd try Nardil. These drugs aren't working. The dietary and med restrictions are a pain for some and it's recommended to wear an alert bracelet but Nardil can be extremely effective.
I'm not suggesting that you take it but at least research it.
If you do decide to try it, work with a doc with a good background with MAOI's.

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Peter

Posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 2:12:07

In reply to confused and fed-up..again.., posted by Peter on February 17, 2003, at 22:20:25

Peter,

My heart goes out to you. I've been down that road and it's a tough row to hoe.

If you are bipolar, why are you taking Adderall? Or better yet, why is your pdoc feeding a bipolar patient stimulants??!!

I'm BP II and I'm currently doing very well on 600 mg/day of Lithobid (which controls my hypomania nicely) and 5 mg of the OTC supplement Enada NADH (for atypical depression and irritability). This is only the fourth week of my Enada NADH trial, so it is way too early to predict its long term effectiveness. So far, however, it's working remarkably well in treating my atypical depression (lack of motivation, low energy, anhedonia, hypersomnia) and my irritable mood states.

If the Enada NADH does not poop-out on me, I'll be home free. However, bear in mind that SAM-e also worked well for about five months, but then it turned me into a rage-alcoholic and I had to stop the trial. Time will tell regarding Enada NADH.

I think I posted to you a time or two last year when you were preparing to begin your lithium trial and I was doing my SAM-e trial. What brand of lithium did you try? Was it time release? How long were you on it? How bad was the dizzyness and induced depression?

My strong statement regarding your Adderall reveals my bias against the use of stimulants for bipolar patients. As I shared with you last year, my ordeal started in 1996 when I (a BP II) was misdiagnosised as ADHD (without any formal testing) and put on Ritalin. The Ritalin was great in the beginning. I could focus and concentrate like never before (nor since). But when I started getting moody a couple of months into the trial, the idiot pdoc added Paxil (instead of pulling the Ritalin and putting me on a moodstabilizer as a competent pdoc would).

The Ritalin and Paxil combo pushed me into a full blown mania (as any good pdoc would fully expect). Adding insult to injury, the two-hundred dollar an hour pdoc did not recognize the mania but, instead, kept writing scripts for the pstim and trying different ADs (can you say malpractice?). Once a person gets his/her brain chemistry this screwed up, it's hard to get it squared away.

So again I ask; Why the Adderall? Pstims are very destabilizing for a bipolar patient. Please forgive my rant.

-- Ron
----------------------------------------

> Every time I think things are finally ok and stable, everything gets messed up. I've been taking lamictal since October as a sort of 'last try' with anticonvulsant mood-stabilizers. Depakote made me lethargic and didn't help at all with my other syptoms, like general and social anxiety. Nuerontin gave me intense derealization and made me even more unstable. In terms of non-anticonvulsant attempts to treat my 'mild bipolar' diagnosis (I guess dysthymia with social anxiety is a better way to put it), I've tried almost everything-Lithium (made me dizzy and depressed), various combinations of SSRI's (worked good for my social anxieties, but caused hypomania and alcohol cravings), different beta-blockers, dopamine-agonists (permax, mirapex), stimulants (concerta, adderall, adderallXR, Dexedrine spansules-now taking adderall), benzos (klonopin and temazepam-still taking both), and probably more cocktails I can't even remember. Some pdocs said I have bipolar unspecified; others said I do not have any bipolar disorder ,but rather depressive anxiety; some said I have ADD, others said I don't. I'm just so sick of it-my current pdoc believes that I have a certain level of bipolarity that, though not 'severe', is very hard to treat because there are so many comorbid symptoms. He has always insisted on mood-stabilizers for me, and he really pushed Lamictal back in October, saying 'this one's different..it's got the best anti-depressant effects, won't make you lethargic but also won't 'cause you to switch into hypomania like the SSRI's do.' So that's the impression I had when I began lamictal-I've been trying to stay optimistic ever since, while we've been very slowly titrating the dose. I was extremely unstable and just horrible for a while, because he took me off zoloft rapidly and then depakote and my neurotransmitters were firing all over the place. Now, after having been off of SSRI's and depakote for a while, I'm already up to 100mg lamictal. Though I also take 20mg adderall bid and I only take my klonopin at night, I find that I'm beginning to experience just as much of a dampened mood with just as much sporadic derealization and spaciness as I did taking depakote or neurontin. And my social anxiety and apprehensions are worse than ever. As always, my pdoc keeps telling me to hang in there, stick with it, etc. Meanwhile I've been engaged for almost a year and the relationship is completely falling apart because of my instability; for instance, I would agree to go to all these social events with my fiancee-even just simple things like going back to Michigan with her to spend time with her and her family or to go to one of her realtive's weddings. So I'd agree to go, and then last minute I'd just freak out and feel paralyzed and cancel on her. I've asked my pdoc what to do; he says the SSRI's are no solution for me, TCA's would make me even more prone to hypomania, and MAOI's would freak me out because of all the dietary restrictions and med interactions. So he keeps saying I should stick with the lamictal-that as we raise it I'll feel better. But the more we raise it, the more lethargic and spaced I feel.
> I guess I'm just trying to express my frustration that there just doesn't seem to be any solution in sight. I really am sick of all of this.
> sorry for the length-I really had to vent,
> Peter

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Phil

Posted by Peter on February 18, 2003, at 4:09:11

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.., posted by Phil on February 17, 2003, at 23:46:52

> I'd try Nardil. These drugs aren't working. The dietary and med restrictions are a pain for some and it's recommended to wear an alert bracelet but Nardil can be extremely effective.
> I'm not suggesting that you take it but at least research it.
> If you do decide to try it, work with a doc with a good background with MAOI's.
>Hi Phil:
I have researched Nardil and I've read wonderful things about it-especially in relation to social anxiety. And in terms of my pdoc, it's his partner- Dr. Liebowitz-who discovered back in the day that MAOI's are effective treatments for social phobia. So I'm sure my doc is quite experienced with prescribing them to patients, and, for that matter, monitering those patients.
It does seem like the most sensible med to turn to, but that's exactly what I said about every other med before I turned to them. Obviously I don't know beforehand if the pros outweigh the cons-I'd have to try it. I guess I'm just a bit disconcerted by the whole experimental element of treating various mental disorders; I know this element is essential for the medical community to learn more about the needs of those with mental disorders and what medications are efficacious in meeting those needs. But that's sort of the catch-22. In a way, because we really don't know much about the brain or the ways in which a lot of these meds work, the patients themselves become the gineau pigs. Great if it works-even if it takes a few times before it works-both patient and doctor are fulfilled. But when it gets to 10 years and over 100 meds, maybe it's time for something else, and I don't know what.
Whatever, I'm just going off again. I might just be willing to give one more try at something.
thanks,
Peter

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Ron Hill

Posted by Peter on February 18, 2003, at 4:27:02

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Peter, posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 2:12:07

> Peter,
>
> My heart goes out to you. I've been down that road and it's a tough row to hoe.
>
> If you are bipolar, why are you taking Adderall? Or better yet, why is your pdoc feeding a bipolar patient stimulants??!!
>
> I'm BP II and I'm currently doing very well on 600 mg/day of Lithobid (which controls my hypomania nicely) and 5 mg of the OTC supplement Enada NADH (for atypical depression and irritability). This is only the fourth week of my Enada NADH trial, so it is way too early to predict its long term effectiveness. So far, however, it's working remarkably well in treating my atypical depression (lack of motivation, low energy, anhedonia, hypersomnia) and my irritable mood states.
>
> If the Enada NADH does not poop-out on me, I'll be home free. However, bear in mind that SAM-e also worked well for about five months, but then it turned me into a rage-alcoholic and I had to stop the trial. Time will tell regarding Enada NADH.
>
> I think I posted to you a time or two last year when you were preparing to begin your lithium trial and I was doing my SAM-e trial. What brand of lithium did you try? Was it time release? How long were you on it? How bad was the dizzyness and induced depression?
>
> My strong statement regarding your Adderall reveals my bias against the use of stimulants for bipolar patients. As I shared with you last year, my ordeal started in 1996 when I (a BP II) was misdiagnosised as ADHD (without any formal testing) and put on Ritalin. The Ritalin was great in the beginning. I could focus and concentrate like never before (nor since). But when I started getting moody a couple of months into the trial, the idiot pdoc added Paxil (instead of pulling the Ritalin and putting me on a moodstabilizer as a competent pdoc would).
>
> The Ritalin and Paxil combo pushed me into a full blown mania (as any good pdoc would fully expect). Adding insult to injury, the two-hundred dollar an hour pdoc did not recognize the mania but, instead, kept writing scripts for the pstim and trying different ADs (can you say malpractice?). Once a person gets his/her brain chemistry this screwed up, it's hard to get it squared away.
>
> So again I ask; Why the Adderall? Pstims are very destabilizing for a bipolar patient. Please forgive my rant.
>
> -- Ron
>Hi Ron:
Well, back in the mid-90's my doc started me off with depakote. Since then, whatever else he's placed me on (AD's, stims, etc.), he's always had me continue the mood-stabilizer; and he's always stressed the importance of my staying on a mood-stabilizer. As I mentioned before, though, other doctors whom I've seen for consultations have disagreed with my pdocs opinion that I fall somewhere in the bipolar spectrum, claiming that I am in no way bipolar, but that I have 'depressive anxiety.'
Because my BP (if I really do have it) is so subtle and combined with other symptoms as to make it very difficult to distinguish from ADD, my pdoc began prescribing me stims-again, with therapeutic doses of stabilizers. The stims, while they sometimes make me more moody and irritable, tend to lift my mood and improve my drive and attention for months without my every suddenly fiending for alcohol and drugs (illicit). So, in that sense, the stims aren't a problem for me, as they don't set me off, but rather hold me back. Unfortunately they have no efficacy in the social anxiety department. The only meds so far that do are the SSRI's which do, after a few months, set me off. My pdoc describes the this reaction to taking SSRI's as proof in and of itself that I am bipolar; but other pdocs have told me that SSRI's can induce hypomanic-like behaviour and alcohol craving in those who are not bipolar. That's why other antidepressants were recommended to me TCA's or MAOI's. The latter is more sensible for my social anxiety symptoms and least likely to cause hypomania if I am in fact bipolar, yet it holds with it the price of always having to diligently following diet and medication restrictions. The TCA's treat depressive-anxiety but are very prone to cause mania-switching, so why take the risk? (says my pdoc). That's it in a nutshell. But what is this Enada NADH you're taking? Never heard of it-I got an appt. w/my pdoc on Wednesday-maybe I'll mention it to him. Thanks,
Peter
p.s.-I took lithobid-tried it twice, the second time for longer than the first-but it always made me feel weak, feable, and dizzy.

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again..Dr Bob also » Peter

Posted by Phil on February 18, 2003, at 7:07:25

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Phil, posted by Peter on February 18, 2003, at 4:09:11

Peter

My brothers go ballistic over all the meds I've tried..about 37. I've accepted it somewhat but I also know your frustration of not finding relief.
Dr. Liebowitz sounds like the guy to talk to for a lot of people here. Good luck. There has to be something that will help.
Peter and Dr Bob.....
I wonder if he would take questions for a week here? His experience with MAOI's is really needed on this board. Think he would be interested?

Phil

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Peter

Posted by Ritch on February 18, 2003, at 9:09:24

In reply to confused and fed-up..again.., posted by Peter on February 17, 2003, at 22:20:25

Peter, you mentioned.. I'm just so sick of it-my current pdoc believes that I have a certain level of bipolarity that, though not 'severe', is very hard to treat because there are so many comorbid symptoms. That's my situation pretty much in a nutshell. I would agree with Ron about the stims. I've been on several and tried the "keep a mood stabilizer and add the stim to treat both ADHD/bipolar" and it didn't work well because of the anxiety (not hypomania). You already know that the Adderall is making your anxiety worse. I agree with Phil about the MAOI, but that would mean stopping the Adderall. It does seem that your pdoc is using the Adderall to keep you off street drugs with it, and considers that a primary reason to maintain it despite your anxiety. You mentioned being on heroin before. If you relapsed and tried it on an MAOI, it could be fatal. Just a hunch, but I think that is what your pdoc is wondering.

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again..

Posted by sjb on February 18, 2003, at 11:13:20

In reply to confused and fed-up..again.., posted by Peter on February 17, 2003, at 22:20:25

I hear ya. Interested in other replies. I have no patience anymore with new drugs. I have no advice other than to share your experience and feel for you. I gave up on Lamictal after a week or two. A Sports PDoc says it's great for athletes but I was lethargic and just couldn't wait for the titration, etc. I'm starting to think that the guy telling us to quit the meds has a point, to a degree. I have tried 28 different meds in the past 7 years and am none the better for it. Right now my weight's the highest it's ever been, my social anxiety is worse. I, too, plan things and then freak out and can't go when the day arrives, etc. It's a very lonely, loney existence. And now that I look worse, it seems I'm ignored more.

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again..

Posted by sjb on February 18, 2003, at 11:17:08

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Peter, posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 2:12:07

Does the Enada NADH help with carbo cravings? As for Adderall, I'm not sure if I'm bipolar or not, but it was great at first, although my husband thaat it made me a bit wacky (hyper-talking, planning vacations, athletics stuff, I guess that's sorta a mania.) And then, I had the worst rebound depression for about 3 days. It was very sstrange.

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Peter

Posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 16:26:33

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Ron Hill, posted by Peter on February 18, 2003, at 4:27:02

>But what is this Enada NADH you're taking? Never heard of it-I got an appt. w/my pdoc on Wednesday-maybe I'll mention it to him.

Peter,

NADH (coenzyme 1) is involved directly in the formation of dopamine and other neurotransmitters as well as being involved in a plethora of other essential biochemical reactions within the human body. Enada NADH is the only stabilized and absorbable form of NADH currently available. Enada NADH is licensed to many different distributors so several brand names of Enada NADH are on the market.

Enada NADH was patented fairly recently (1995), so your pdoc might not be familiar with it. Therefore, do your homework before your appointment (if you have any interest in it) so you can take your research with you to show him/her. Check out the links at the bottom of this post. If you enter "NADH" in your search engine you will find more information but be prepared to wade through a lot of sites trying to sell the stuff.

As I told you previously, it’s working remarkably well for me but it’s too early in my trial for me to start recommending it. However, I would recommend that if a bipolar patient decides to try it, the patient should be on a good moodstabilizer first.

Peter, may I wonder out loud for a moment? I wonder if you could replace Adderall with Enada NADH and continue to increase your mood stabilization by ramping up the Lamictal and/or adding on an additional moodstabilizer, like Tripetal (for example)? Enada NADH is highly dopaminergic, but void of the stimulant related side effects. That's not a recommendation, I'm just wondering out loud.

One cautionary note. I read an article discussing the fact that NADH does not work well for people that are abusing alcohol. It's got something to do with the equilibrium between NADH and NAD. I don't remember all the details, but if I recall correctly, alcohol abuse shifts the equilibrium reaction toward the NADH side of the equation resulting in a surplus of NADH. Therefore, adding more NADH via a supplement will be of no benefit.

I wonder if this alcohol induced shift in equilibrium, which increases NADH, is part of the reason many untreated bipolar patients self medicate with alcohol. But this is complete speculation on my part.

It would take some time for me to find the article where I read this alcohol/NADH information, but I'll look for it if you want to read it. Let me know if you do.

As an aside and FWIW, as a bipolar patient I can not drink any alcohol. One drink can destabilize my mood states for several days thereafter.


> I took lithobid-tried it twice, the second time for longer than the first-but it always made me feel weak, feable, and dizzy.

Not to beat a dead horse, but what dose of Lithobid did you take. Did you ever try a very low dose, like say, 450 mg/day? If you can tolerate a low dose, perhaps you could use it as an add-on to the Lamictal.

Let me know what the pdoc says on Wednesday. Do your homework so you can tell him/her what you want to try.

-- Ron


Here are some of the links discussing NADH:

http://www.healthwell.com/hnbreakthroughs/mar98/nadh.cfm?path=hw

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8101444&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9247090&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9013405&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.nadh.com/site7/SYSact20.htm#Top

http://www.nadh.com/site7/RSdprs05.htm#Top

http://www.smart-drugs.com/article-JamesSouth-NADH.htm

http://www.nadh-priceinfo.org/

http://qualitycounts.com/fpnadh.html

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3118/T/Both/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12385067&dopt=Abstract

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/powersearch2.cfm (Note: enter “NADH” as keyword)


 

Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Ron Hill

Posted by Peter on February 18, 2003, at 16:36:41

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Peter, posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 16:26:33

> >But what is this Enada NADH you're taking? Never heard of it-I got an appt. w/my pdoc on Wednesday-maybe I'll mention it to him.
>
> Peter,
>
> NADH (coenzyme 1) is involved directly in the formation of dopamine and other neurotransmitters as well as being involved in a plethora of other essential biochemical reactions within the human body. Enada NADH is the only stabilized and absorbable form of NADH currently available. Enada NADH is licensed to many different distributors so several brand names of Enada NADH are on the market.
>
> Enada NADH was patented fairly recently (1995), so your pdoc might not be familiar with it. Therefore, do your homework before your appointment (if you have any interest in it) so you can take your research with you to show him/her. Check out the links at the bottom of this post. If you enter "NADH" in your search engine you will find more information but be prepared to wade through a lot of sites trying to sell the stuff.
>
> As I told you previously, it?s working remarkably well for me but it?s too early in my trial for me to start recommending it. However, I would recommend that if a bipolar patient decides to try it, the patient should be on a good moodstabilizer first.
>
> Peter, may I wonder out loud for a moment? I wonder if you could replace Adderall with Enada NADH and continue to increase your mood stabilization by ramping up the Lamictal and/or adding on an additional moodstabilizer, like Tripetal (for example)? Enada NADH is highly dopaminergic, but void of the stimulant related side effects. That's not a recommendation, I'm just wondering out loud.
>
> One cautionary note. I read an article discussing the fact that NADH does not work well for people that are abusing alcohol. It's got something to do with the equilibrium between NADH and NAD. I don't remember all the details, but if I recall correctly, alcohol abuse shifts the equilibrium reaction toward the NADH side of the equation resulting in a surplus of NADH. Therefore, adding more NADH via a supplement will be of no benefit.
>
> I wonder if this alcohol induced shift in equilibrium, which increases NADH, is part of the reason many untreated bipolar patients self medicate with alcohol. But this is complete speculation on my part.
>
> It would take some time for me to find the article where I read this alcohol/NADH information, but I'll look for it if you want to read it. Let me know if you do.
>
> As an aside and FWIW, as a bipolar patient I can not drink any alcohol. One drink can destabilize my mood states for several days thereafter.
>
>
> > I took lithobid-tried it twice, the second time for longer than the first-but it always made me feel weak, feable, and dizzy.
>
> Not to beat a dead horse, but what dose of Lithobid did you take. Did you ever try a very low dose, like say, 450 mg/day? If you can tolerate a low dose, perhaps you could use it as an add-on to the Lamictal.
>
> Let me know what the pdoc says on Wednesday. Do your homework so you can tell him/her what you want to try.
>
> -- Ron
>
>
> Here are some of the links discussing NADH:
>
> http://www.healthwell.com/hnbreakthroughs/mar98/nadh.cfm?path=hw
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8101444&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9247090&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9013405&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
>
> http://www.nadh.com/site7/SYSact20.htm#Top
>
> http://www.nadh.com/site7/RSdprs05.htm#Top
>
> http://www.smart-drugs.com/article-JamesSouth-NADH.htm
>
> http://www.nadh-priceinfo.org/
>
> http://qualitycounts.com/fpnadh.html
>
> http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/3118/T/Both/
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12385067&dopt=Abstract
>
> http://www.immunesupport.com/library/powersearch2.cfm (Note: enter ?NADH? as keyword)
> Phil:
Thanks for the info. I'm just really beginning to agree with the last pdoc I went to for consultation who said I am not bipolar because there's no evidence of mania or hypomania. She said, after looking at the huge list of mood-stabilizers I've been on in the last 7 years, that it's obvious that mood-stabilizers are not the right meds for me, as every single one has failed in treating me and has just made me lethargic, like a lead weight is pinning me down to the ground. Bipolars wouldn't necessarily have this response. So adding another mood-stabiliser definitely doesn't sound like the right direction for me. But thanks a lot for these NADH links0I will check them out. As for the lithobid, I took the smallest possible dose you could take for about 3 weeks and felt like something tremendously heavy was pushing me downward-I couldn't walk without hunching over and I couldn't talk without mumbling. Exactly like I feel now on lamictal, and like I felt on neurontin and depakote. Yet my current pdoc continues to insist on mood-stabilizers.
Peter

>
>

 

Re: Enada NADH and Carb Craving » sjb

Posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 16:37:10

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.., posted by sjb on February 18, 2003, at 11:17:08

> Does the Enada NADH help with carbo cravings?

sbj,

Funny you should ask. It has reduced my sweet tooth. But, what prompted you to ask? Did you read that it does?


>As for Adderall, I'm not sure if I'm bipolar or not, but it was great at first, although my husband thaat it made me a bit wacky (hyper-talking, planning vacations, athletics stuff, I guess that's sorta a mania.) And then, I had the worst rebound depression for about 3 days. It was very sstrange.

Sounds familiar. Be well!

-- Ron

 

Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Peter

Posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 17:31:22

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again.. » Ron Hill, posted by Peter on February 18, 2003, at 16:36:41

> I'm just really beginning to agree with the last pdoc I went to for consultation who said I am not bipolar because there's no evidence of mania or hypomania.


Peter,

Oh, if you're not bipolar then delete almost everything I said. Seems like the first order of business would be to get the dx nailed down. At the bottom of this post is a link to an on-line diagnosis test. When I took it years ago it was free. Now I think it costs ten bucks.

It's only a screening tool, of course, but I think it's pretty good. If my initial pdoc would have given me this simple screen he could have saved me from years of misery and lost opportunity. When I took the test the screening results showed that I am clearly bipolar without a hint of ADHD. However, your dx may be more complex and, therefore, the test might not be of great benefit to you. Best wishes figuring out your dx and meds. If I can help, let me know.

-- Ron

http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr71.html

 

Re: take questions for a week

Posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2003, at 12:46:51

In reply to Re: confused and fed-up..again..Dr Bob also » Peter, posted by Phil on February 18, 2003, at 7:07:25

> I wonder if he would take questions for a week here? His experience with MAOI's is really needed on this board. Think he would be interested?

I'm game if he is...

Bob

 

Re: take questions for a weekPeter

Posted by Phil on February 19, 2003, at 18:21:29

In reply to Re: take questions for a week, posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2003, at 12:46:51

Peter, Do you think Dr. Liebowitz would be willing to answer MAOI questions on the site?
Dr. Bob's cool with it.
Would you be willing to ask?

Phil

 

Re: take questions for a weekPeter » Phil

Posted by Peter on February 19, 2003, at 18:30:23

In reply to Re: take questions for a weekPeter, posted by Phil on February 19, 2003, at 18:21:29

> Peter, Do you think Dr. Liebowitz would be willing to answer MAOI questions on the site?
> Dr. Bob's cool with it.
> Would you be willing to ask?
>
> Phil
>Hi Phil:
I'll ask my pdoc (Dr. Hurowitz), who's his partner. I'll get back to you.
Peter

 

Liebowitz is an World Authority » Peter

Posted by jumpy on February 19, 2003, at 19:50:05

In reply to Re: take questions for a weekPeter » Phil, posted by Peter on February 19, 2003, at 18:30:23

> > Peter, Do you think Dr. Liebowitz would be willing to answer MAOI questions on the site?

> >Hi Phil:
> I'll ask my pdoc (Dr. Hurowitz), who's his partner. I'll get back to you.
> Peter

That would be tremendous ... I have been saving up money and considering getting a single consultant with Dr. Liebowitz. That would be amazing if Dr. Liebowitz came and answered questions on the board.

Thanks Peter and everyone involved in this.

Jumpy

 

Re: Enada NADH and Carb Craving

Posted by pelorojo on February 19, 2003, at 22:43:38

In reply to Re: Enada NADH and Carb Craving » sjb, posted by Ron Hill on February 18, 2003, at 16:37:10

I was really interested to see this post. I've been experimenting with a very low amount of NADH (2.5 mg) and have found that I do eat less. For me though it's not appetite suppression - Wellbutrin suppresses my appetite, but if you put a pizza in front of me even if my appetite is not strong I'm likely to devour the whole thing. With the NADH I've noticed that I'm able to reach satiety better - so I can *stop* eating once I start. I'm curious if others have experienced this and, if they have, to what extent it's dose-related and if the effect extinguishes over time.

> > Does the Enada NADH help with carbo cravings?
>
> sbj,
>
> Funny you should ask. It has reduced my sweet tooth. But, what prompted you to ask? Did you read that it does?
>
>
> >As for Adderall, I'm not sure if I'm bipolar or not, but it was great at first, although my husband thaat it made me a bit wacky (hyper-talking, planning vacations, athletics stuff, I guess that's sorta a mania.) And then, I had the worst rebound depression for about 3 days. It was very sstrange.
>
> Sounds familiar. Be well!
>
> -- Ron

 

Re:Thanks Peter. (nm)

Posted by Phil on February 20, 2003, at 12:18:02

In reply to Re: take questions for a weekPeter » Phil, posted by Peter on February 19, 2003, at 18:30:23

 

Re:Thanks Peter. » Phil

Posted by Peter on February 28, 2003, at 23:55:06

In reply to Re:Thanks Peter. (nm), posted by Phil on February 20, 2003, at 12:18:02

Sorry Phil: looks like Leibowitz isn't available or something. I asked my pdoc to ask him, but I didn't get a response. I'll ask again. Hope all is well.
Peter


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