Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 140031

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

dexedrine spansules vs. adderall

Posted by Peter on February 7, 2003, at 18:32:19

Hi all:
Just came back from pdoc. Mood has been all over the place this week;. He doesn't want to prescribe me another antidepressant as of yet, since he really thinks the lamictal will help my SP and cycling as we titrate it. I'm now on 75mg, going to 100mg. But he did say I should replace my 30mg adderall (10mg x3) with 30mg dexedrine spansules (2x5mg tid). The reason for this is, as I had already heard, the dexedrine doesn't have the l-isomer, only the d, which many have said is 'smoother' on their mood. So, I got it filled, took 2x5mg, and then noticed on the insert that it says 'take last dose 12-14hrs. before bed'. It's already 7:30pm! I'm used to taking my 3rd adderall dose this time, and my pdoc said the dex spansules are NOT longer acting than normal adderall (in other words, not like adderall XR). Is this true? Why does it say that? Anyone have experience with dexedrine spansules? Are they in fact 'smoother' then adderall and do they last the same amount of time? Thanks as always,
Peter

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Peter

Posted by Ritch on February 8, 2003, at 9:40:21

In reply to dexedrine spansules vs. adderall, posted by Peter on February 7, 2003, at 18:32:19

> Hi all:
> Just came back from pdoc. Mood has been all over the place this week;. He doesn't want to prescribe me another antidepressant as of yet, since he really thinks the lamictal will help my SP and cycling as we titrate it. I'm now on 75mg, going to 100mg. But he did say I should replace my 30mg adderall (10mg x3) with 30mg dexedrine spansules (2x5mg tid). The reason for this is, as I had already heard, the dexedrine doesn't have the l-isomer, only the d, which many have said is 'smoother' on their mood. So, I got it filled, took 2x5mg, and then noticed on the insert that it says 'take last dose 12-14hrs. before bed'. It's already 7:30pm! I'm used to taking my 3rd adderall dose this time, and my pdoc said the dex spansules are NOT longer acting than normal adderall (in other words, not like adderall XR). Is this true? Why does it say that? Anyone have experience with dexedrine spansules? Are they in fact 'smoother' then adderall and do they last the same amount of time? Thanks as always,
> Peter

In my experience with immediate-release dexedrine it was considerably "smoother" (mentally-much less anxiety-provoking) than Adderall. However spansules will be probably a little bit more uneven than Adderall as far as the release of the drug is concerned. It is supposed to release half of its medicine all at once and then the other half gradually, so you may notice a quicker "kick" at first and a little waviness in its release later on-but you are taking it 3x daily so that might not be an issue. I had much less elevated heart-rate and blood pressure on dexedrine. The l-isomer in Adderall has a half-life of about 11 hrs or so (from what I've read anyhow) so it shouldn't be taken too close to bedtime either. So your pdoc is right about the dex spansules not being any longer acting than regular Adderall. It is probably more of a deal about Adderall *not* mentioning avoidance of late-day dosing.

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Ritch

Posted by Peter on February 8, 2003, at 12:55:36

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Peter, posted by Ritch on February 8, 2003, at 9:40:21

> In my experience with immediate-release dexedrine it was considerably "smoother" (mentally-much less anxiety-provoking) than Adderall. However spansules will be probably a little bit more uneven than Adderall as far as the release of the drug is concerned. It is supposed to release half of its medicine all at once and then the other half gradually, so you may notice a quicker "kick" at first and a little waviness in its release later on-but you are taking it 3x daily so that might not be an issue. I had much less elevated heart-rate and blood pressure on dexedrine. The l-isomer in Adderall has a half-life of about 11 hrs or so (from what I've read anyhow) so it shouldn't be taken too close to bedtime either. So your pdoc is right about the dex spansules not being any longer acting than regular Adderall. It is probably more of a deal about Adderall *not* mentioning avoidance of late-day dosing.
> hi Mitch:
I wonder why he didn't give me the immediate release? I guess because it only comes in 5mg tabs and is shorter-acting than adderall so I'd have to take it more than 3 times a day? Who knows. The spansules so far seem exactly how you described- some energy at first and then a bit wavy. It sort of feels like it falls somewhere between adderall and adderallXR. As for the smoothness of mood, it'll probably take a few days to tell.
How are you doing these days?
> Peter

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Peter

Posted by Ritch on February 8, 2003, at 17:32:49

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Ritch, posted by Peter on February 8, 2003, at 12:55:36

> > In my experience with immediate-release dexedrine it was considerably "smoother" (mentally-much less anxiety-provoking) than Adderall. However spansules will be probably a little bit more uneven than Adderall as far as the release of the drug is concerned. It is supposed to release half of its medicine all at once and then the other half gradually, so you may notice a quicker "kick" at first and a little waviness in its release later on-but you are taking it 3x daily so that might not be an issue. I had much less elevated heart-rate and blood pressure on dexedrine. The l-isomer in Adderall has a half-life of about 11 hrs or so (from what I've read anyhow) so it shouldn't be taken too close to bedtime either. So your pdoc is right about the dex spansules not being any longer acting than regular Adderall. It is probably more of a deal about Adderall *not* mentioning avoidance of late-day dosing.
> > hi Mitch:
> I wonder why he didn't give me the immediate release? I guess because it only comes in 5mg tabs and is shorter-acting than adderall so I'd have to take it more than 3 times a day? Who knows. The spansules so far seem exactly how you described- some energy at first and then a bit wavy. It sort of feels like it falls somewhere between adderall and adderallXR. As for the smoothness of mood, it'll probably take a few days to tell.
> How are you doing these days?
> > Peter
>

You can get dextrostat immediate release tablets that are 10mg (I think). IR dexedrine has a rather harsh crash to it though-that's probably what your pdoc is trying to avoid. They lasted about 3-4 hrs. fairly smooth and then off the cliff pretty fast over another 2. I'm doing OK I guess. I'm just taking Trileptal, Klonopin, and a tiny bit of Effexor. Trileptal definitely doesn't depress me like Depakote did, but the nausea is pretty bad. I've tried increasing to 300mg/day (which isn't much), and I can't handle it. I'm at 225mg/day now, and that is still a little rough. What a drag, it does have good mood stabilizing properties, though. I tried to go back on Neurontin with it, but could only take that a few days. I started getting the same bizarre side effects from it that I had before (esophageal spasm-chest pain-slumped posture). It worked great for anxiety. Everything that works great I can't tolerate at all or I can't tolerate enough of it to do me much good. Can't take AP's. I may end up having to drop the Trileptal back to 150mg/day and just accept partial mood stabilization. Hey, at least I'm not depressed, just a little hypo at times.

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Ritch

Posted by Peter on February 8, 2003, at 18:32:15

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Peter, posted by Ritch on February 8, 2003, at 17:32:49

> You can get dextrostat immediate release tablets that are 10mg (I think). IR dexedrine has a rather harsh crash to it though-that's probably what your pdoc is trying to avoid. They lasted about 3-4 hrs. fairly smooth and then off the cliff pretty fast over another 2. I'm doing OK I guess. I'm just taking Trileptal, Klonopin, and a tiny bit of Effexor. Trileptal definitely doesn't depress me like Depakote did, but the nausea is pretty bad. I've tried increasing to 300mg/day (which isn't much), and I can't handle it. I'm at 225mg/day now, and that is still a little rough. What a drag, it does have good mood stabilizing properties, though. I tried to go back on Neurontin with it, but could only take that a few days. I started getting the same bizarre side effects from it that I had before (esophageal spasm-chest pain-slumped posture). It worked great for anxiety. Everything that works great I can't tolerate at all or I can't tolerate enough of it to do me much good. Can't take AP's. I may end up having to drop the Trileptal back to 150mg/day and just accept partial mood stabilization. Hey, at least I'm not depressed, just a little hypo at times.
>Mitch:
I know what you're saying-all the meds that work really good for all my symptoms I eventually end up being unable to tolerate! That's especially the case with SSRI's for me. I've heard Trileptal is a very promising stabilizer, like tegratol w/o the problematic SE's. I know what it's like to be shifting meds all the time, and it's always a nice thing to be able to settle on a particular regime, at least for a while. I would agree that a little hypomania is far better than depression, unless there's dysphoria or anxiety associated with it. But, if you don't feel that trileptal is working out for you, what about lamictal? I remember you said you didn't try it because of the rash thing; that's the same reason why I didn't want to give it a try for the last few years. But now that I've been taking it since October, the only side-effect I noticed was some initial GI upset and spaciness, most of which has gone away; really when it comes down to it, Lamictal has a very low SE profile except for the rash thing, which of course they put in bold letters even though the fatal kind is really very uncommon.
I'm realizing that the awful depressive periods I went through were due to the zoloft withdrawl, and the fact that I was not on a high enough dose of lamictal for it to be therapeutic. But the reason why I think it really works is because it's subtle-it seems to even out my mood without sedating me like depakote or Neurontin (BTW I got crazy side-effects from Nuerontin also); if anything, lamictal tends to stabilize in the other direction-a little energy for once! I also find that it's dealing with my anxiety better as I increase the dose. As you know, it requires a slow titration, but once your in the therapeutic range, I think it's a step above the other AC's (though, again, I've heard the same said about trileptal-so if you're satisfied, might as well stick with it).
Peter

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall

Posted by Festus on February 8, 2003, at 22:38:02

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Ritch, posted by Peter on February 8, 2003, at 18:32:15

Howdy Folks,
I,m with you guys on the Dex,I think it is much easier on the body as a whole than Adderrall.I was taking the IR Adderrall 10 mg. and it would really make me feel jacked-up for a while and then,boom!The med is composed of 4 different amphetamine salts and is basically an older diet pill called Obetrol re-marketed as an ADD med.I was glad to switch to the Dexedrine 10mg.spansule caps,they are easier on my system and have less of the "jumpy",racy-heart effects.I ain,t sure why it says to take last dose 10-14 hrs. before bed.Festus

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Festus

Posted by Peter on February 10, 2003, at 15:46:29

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall, posted by Festus on February 8, 2003, at 22:38:02

> Howdy Folks,
> I,m with you guys on the Dex,I think it is much easier on the body as a whole than Adderrall.I was taking the IR Adderrall 10 mg. and it would really make me feel jacked-up for a while and then,boom!The med is composed of 4 different amphetamine salts and is basically an older diet pill called Obetrol re-marketed as an ADD med.I was glad to switch to the Dexedrine 10mg.spansule caps,they are easier on my system and have less of the "jumpy",racy-heart effects.I ain,t sure why it says to take last dose 10-14 hrs. before bed.Festus
>>Hi Festus:
Just curious- how much do you take a day? 'Cause I switched from 10mg adderall 3xdaily to 10mg dexedrine spansules 3xdaily, and I've just been feeling very lethargic. Just no energy. thanks,
Peter

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall

Posted by JohnDoenut on February 10, 2003, at 22:24:06

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall, posted by Festus on February 8, 2003, at 22:38:02

> I,m with you guys on the Dex,I think it is much easier on the body as a whole than Adderrall.
>

This is very interesting.
When I first read this group about a year or so ago, people were comparing Ritalin and
Adderall and saying that the Adderall was
smoother than ritalin and liked it better.
My experience with this was along those lines.

>then,boom!The med is composed of 4 different amphetamine salts and is basically an older diet pill called Obetrol re-marketed as an ADD med.
>

Wasnt Dexedrine also used in diet pills?
I found this link which goes into the background
of Obetrol and Adderal and in a bit more detail.

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg960222b.htm

It says that Adderal was made by a company that marketed it for both ADHD and diet and was later bought by Richwood who renamed it Adderal.

It seems that amphetimines which are theraputic in the treatment of ADD and still require a prescription
can use the side effect of loss of appetite to also treat people with weight problems. The only problem here might be that if someone using it for weight loss who does not have ADD but has an additive personality might become addicted to them. People with ADD using it in small doses tend not to get addicted to it.

Personally I take Adderal in very small doses, enough to help with ADD but not enough to help me lose any weight! :)

J


 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall

Posted by JohnDoenut on February 10, 2003, at 22:36:43

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall, posted by JohnDoenut on February 10, 2003, at 22:24:06

> Wasnt Dexedrine also used in diet pills?
> I found this link which goes into the background
> of Obetrol and Adderal and in a bit more detail.
>
> http://www.pslgroup.com/dg960222b.htm
>

Ok Im quoting myself but I just found this link here:

http://www.additudemag.com/selfhelp.asp?DEPT_NO=405&SUB_NO=4

And it goes into more detail about all this.
In fact it talks about people with ADD trying to lose weight!!!

"Ironically, Adderall – a popular AD/HD medication made from a combination of amphetamines – was originally developed and marketed over 20 years ago as a weight loss medication under the name ”Obetrol." Dexedrine is another AD/HD medication that has been prescribed for weight control. Prescribing amphetamines for weight loss eventually fell out of favor due to the potential for abuse of the medications and other possible health concerns. Doctors eventually stopped prescribing Obetrol for weight loss. It became an orphan drug that was later adopted by Shire, renamed Adderall, and re-approved by the FDA for use in the treatment of AD/HD. "


 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall

Posted by Festus on February 12, 2003, at 21:58:26

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Festus, posted by Peter on February 10, 2003, at 15:46:29

Howdy Peter,
I was on 10mg BID of Adderrall and switched to 10mg BID of Dex.It may be that your system is getting "ragged-out" from the stims.That,s how I feel too,after taking them for a while.I also take several other meds that may contribute to burn-out.Do you take other meds? Festus

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Festus

Posted by Peter on February 14, 2003, at 0:49:15

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall, posted by Festus on February 12, 2003, at 21:58:26

> Howdy Peter,
> I was on 10mg BID of Adderrall and switched to 10mg BID of Dex.It may be that your system is getting "ragged-out" from the stims.That,s how I feel too,after taking them for a while.I also take several other meds that may contribute to burn-out.Do you take other meds? Festus
>Hey Festus:
yeah. Now I'm taking Lamictal for dysthymia, klonopin for anxiety, and temazepam and ambien for sleep. My doc actually put me back on adderall after a few more days of the dex 'cause I was just getting too lethargic. Now I'm back up to 40mg daily with al the other stuff. I know what you mean w/the med burn-out feeling!
Peter
>
>

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall

Posted by Cindylou on February 15, 2003, at 8:39:01

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Festus, posted by Peter on February 14, 2003, at 0:49:15

Hi,
I saw my pdoc yesterday, and I will be trying Dex now. I posted in another thread about how horribly I crash out on stims, after only a day or two after taking them -- low doses. I've tried Ritilin, Provigil and Adderall and have the same issues with all three.

BUT, we're going to give Dex a try, and try taking SMALL doses (like 2.5 mg.) several times a day. My pdoc had a good insight ... he said my body metabolizes stims the way a hypoglycemic or diabetic metabolizes sugar ... I feel good when I first take it, but shortly afterward my pancreas (or liver or whatever) goes on overload and I crash out. So we're going to try several "small meals" a day of the stimulant. (Like a diabetic would with food.) I'll let you know what happens. Hopefully the Dex will be easier on my system like some of you have reported.

Just a note -- back in my college days (I'm dating myself) "Dexatrim" was the diet pill on the market. I took it a few times and it knocked me out -- I was always very medicated and sleepy on it. My pdoc said there was about 30 mg. of Dexedrine in it!!! I can't believe they used to sell that over-the-counter. No wonder I felt so horrible on it.

Take care all,
cindy

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Cindylou

Posted by utopizen on February 15, 2003, at 17:05:49

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall, posted by Cindylou on February 15, 2003, at 8:39:01

>
> Just a note -- back in my college days (I'm dating myself) "Dexatrim" was the diet pill on the market. I took it a few times and it knocked me out -- I was always very medicated and sleepy on it. My pdoc said there was about 30 mg. of Dexedrine in it!!! I can't believe they used to sell that over-the-counter. No wonder I felt so horrible on it.
>

Actually, Dexatrim had caffiene in it-- the caffiene was suppose to make your metabolism faster.

It was called Dexatrim to snatch some of the marketing power of Dexedrine, which was known best as a diet pill, its main indication. Dexatrim was for the people who couldn't afford Dexedrine and the weight loss doctors ("fat doctors") who prescribed them.

Dexedrine was never sold over the counter, but its ancestor, Benzedrine, was. Benzedrine was the levo and delta (l+d) isomers of amphetamine in a racemic mixture. Benzedrine was sold as an inhaler and later in tablet form for weight loss, other indications. Dexedrine is simply the delta isomer, which is the more effective isomer of amphetamine responsible for its effect and less responsible than levo isomer for its side effects.

Adderall includes the l-isomer, accounting for why it may make people feel more jittery.

I take 20mg 2x day of Adderall (when I'm productive enough to deal with the jitteriness) but soon will switch to Dexedrine 2x day. Only problem is, when my doctor had me trial dex once, he gave me 60 5mg as a month's supply-- but I really need 10mg I believe as a single dose, and at least 2x/day...

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Cindylou

Posted by zenclear on February 15, 2003, at 17:29:34

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall, posted by Cindylou on February 15, 2003, at 8:39:01

> Hi,
> I saw my pdoc yesterday, and I will be trying Dex now. I posted in another thread about how horribly I crash out on stims, after only a day or two after taking them -- low doses. I've tried Ritilin, Provigil and Adderall and have the same issues with all three.
>
> BUT, we're going to give Dex a try, and try taking SMALL doses (like 2.5 mg.) several times a day. My pdoc had a good insight ... he said my body metabolizes stims the way a hypoglycemic or diabetic metabolizes sugar ... I feel good when I first take it, but shortly afterward my pancreas (or liver or whatever) goes on overload and I crash out. So we're going to try several "small meals" a day of the stimulant. (Like a diabetic would with food.) I'll let you know what happens. Hopefully the Dex will be easier on my system like some of you have reported.
>
> Just a note -- back in my college days (I'm dating myself) "Dexatrim" was the diet pill on the market. I took it a few times and it knocked me out -- I was always very medicated and sleepy on it. My pdoc said there was about 30 mg. of Dexedrine in it!!! I can't believe they used to sell that over-the-counter. No wonder I felt so horrible on it.
>
> Take care all,
> cindy
>


This is interesting, what your doc said about metabolizing fast, and chashing out? Can you say a little more about this? Do you mean, you metrablize very quickly?

I've never heard of this explantion, but I experience the same problem.

A small about makes me feel good for about an hour, and then it's lights out. More doses can often make me almost comatose with the need for sleep. These days, dex almost acts as a tranqulizer, and higher doses do not help.

 

Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » zenclear

Posted by Cindylou on February 16, 2003, at 14:39:01

In reply to Re: dexedrine spansules vs. adderall » Cindylou, posted by zenclear on February 15, 2003, at 17:29:34

Hi,
My doctor was just using an analogy of how my reaction to stimulants is how a hypoglycemic person reacts to sugar, or going without meals for awhile. Since I do have low blood sugar, this made sense to me -- the feeling when I crash out on the stims is very similar to a low-blood sugar feeling -- sleepy, unfocused, dizzy, even nauseated.

He said that, just like the best thing for a hypoglycemic person is eating many small meals a day, I could try many small doses of a stim a day (like 2.5 mg. Dex every few hours.)

The thing that doesn't ring true here is that if a hypoglycemic person had many small meals of SUGAR a day, that person would be as sick as a dog. I'm hoping my pdoc was looking at stimulants as needed "nutrition" for my body rather than as sugar.

Your experience with Dex sounds like my experience with all stimulants up to this point, so I'm not really hopeful that this new routine will help. I just started the regimen of Dex yesterday. So far, so good. I will keep you posted.

I don't know if I answered your question or not ... hope this helps some!

cindy

>
> This is interesting, what your doc said about metabolizing fast, and chashing out? Can you say a little more about this? Do you mean, you metrablize very quickly?
>
> I've never heard of this explantion, but I experience the same problem.
>
> A small about makes me feel good for about an hour, and then it's lights out. More doses can often make me almost comatose with the need for sleep. These days, dex almost acts as a tranqulizer, and higher doses do not help.
>


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