Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 140790

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life

Posted by jumpy on February 12, 2003, at 22:17:25

Hey Ritch,

I make sure to read you posts ... you seem to be a wealth of information and experience. I have try all the traditional meds, moved on to the non traditional meds, tried ECT and now on stimulants/benzos/high fish diet. I really have on found relief with nardil, ECT and imipramine+lithium .... all of which I have difficult tolerating from side effects .... mainly unable to hold a relationship from sexual dysfunction and difficulty with work from the memory loss.

How do you deal with the all this suffering that this disease inflicts on us? Any good coping strategies on how to accept this painful life ... not being able to hold relationships, difficulties with work, severe side effects from meds, broke family, etc?

Thanks.

Jumpy

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy

Posted by Ritch on February 13, 2003, at 10:18:12

In reply to Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life, posted by jumpy on February 12, 2003, at 22:17:25

> Hey Ritch,
>
> I make sure to read you posts ... you seem to be a wealth of information and experience. I have try all the traditional meds, moved on to the non traditional meds, tried ECT and now on stimulants/benzos/high fish diet. I really have on found relief with nardil, ECT and imipramine+lithium .... all of which I have difficult tolerating from side effects .... mainly unable to hold a relationship from sexual dysfunction and difficulty with work from the memory loss.
>
> How do you deal with the all this suffering that this disease inflicts on us? Any good coping strategies on how to accept this painful life ... not being able to hold relationships, difficulties with work, severe side effects from meds, broke family, etc?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jumpy


It does seem like the quest for the perfect med combo, huh? :) Fortunately, my moods shift in predictable ways (they are seasonal), and I cycle very predictably throughout all of that as well. I always chart stuff as best as possible. All of this *objectifies* the "illness" and makes it a lot easier to handle. I've been having these problems for almost 30 years so I am not having to deal with the "being diagnosed as X" kind of thing. Also when you see the illness as a process that you have limited control over-you self-pity a lot less because you don't sweat every decision you make or wish you had done something differently, etc. The good thing is that more good stuff is *always* going to happen again. When you really *feel* that *certainty* it makes getting through black times a lot easier. You have to remember that your memory is mood-state dependent. When you feel crumby, you have great difficulty remembering anything good in the past. But, you can always remind yourself of that knowledge and it helps you to persevere. Humor helps a LOT. When you get depressed go out of your way to try to watch or listen to something funny and get lost in it. It can make a big difference. I find also that when I am high I get more stable by doing things in a more scheduled (rather than haphazard) manner. If I am depressed I find it helps to force myself to do something different (expose yourself to a novel situation or alternative way of doing something). Hope this helps some.

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch

Posted by jumpy on February 13, 2003, at 11:36:29

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy, posted by Ritch on February 13, 2003, at 10:18:12

> It does seem like the quest for the perfect med combo, huh? :) Fortunately, my moods shift in predictable ways (they are seasonal), and I cycle very predictably throughout all of that as well. I always chart stuff as best as possible. All of this *objectifies* the "illness" and makes it a lot easier to handle. I've been having these problems for almost 30 years so I am not having to deal with the "being diagnosed as X" kind of thing. Also when you see the illness as a process that you have limited control over-you self-pity a lot less because you don't sweat every decision you make or wish you had done something differently, etc. The good thing is that more good stuff is *always* going to happen again. When you really *feel* that *certainty* it makes getting through black times a lot easier. You have to remember that your memory is mood-state dependent. When you feel crumby, you have great difficulty remembering anything good in the past. But, you can always remind yourself of that knowledge and it helps you to persevere. Humor helps a LOT. When you get depressed go out of your way to try to watch or listen to something funny and get lost in it. It can make a big difference. I find also that when I am high I get more stable by doing things in a more scheduled (rather than haphazard) manner. If I am depressed I find it helps to force myself to do something different (expose yourself to a novel situation or alternative way of doing something). Hope this helps some.

Hey Ritch/Mitch,

Thanks a million ... I am going to print this out and post it on the refrigerator. I guess the hardest part is accepting that I am handicapped. That because of my anxiety and depression or the side effects of treatment, I will

1. Never marry or have a loving, stable relationship
2. Never have children
3. Grow old alone
4. Never advance at work
5. Will develope multiple medical problems from the side effects of nardil like high blood pressure and diabetes for which I will need more medications
6. Never have a solid group of friends or support system

I guess I have to face that reality someday and just accept my handcapp. Accept my life will be just 30 more years of reading psychobabble and pubmed looking for something to help and watching television alone ... while everyone else is out with there families and friends and enjoying life.

Thanks again!

Jumpy

Thanks for all the advise.

Jumpy

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy

Posted by Ritch on February 13, 2003, at 13:56:08

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch, posted by jumpy on February 13, 2003, at 11:36:29

> > It does seem like the quest for the perfect med combo, huh? :) Fortunately, my moods shift in predictable ways (they are seasonal), and I cycle very predictably throughout all of that as well. I always chart stuff as best as possible. All of this *objectifies* the "illness" and makes it a lot easier to handle. I've been having these problems for almost 30 years so I am not having to deal with the "being diagnosed as X" kind of thing. Also when you see the illness as a process that you have limited control over-you self-pity a lot less because you don't sweat every decision you make or wish you had done something differently, etc. The good thing is that more good stuff is *always* going to happen again. When you really *feel* that *certainty* it makes getting through black times a lot easier. You have to remember that your memory is mood-state dependent. When you feel crumby, you have great difficulty remembering anything good in the past. But, you can always remind yourself of that knowledge and it helps you to persevere. Humor helps a LOT. When you get depressed go out of your way to try to watch or listen to something funny and get lost in it. It can make a big difference. I find also that when I am high I get more stable by doing things in a more scheduled (rather than haphazard) manner. If I am depressed I find it helps to force myself to do something different (expose yourself to a novel situation or alternative way of doing something). Hope this helps some.
>
> Hey Ritch/Mitch,
>
> Thanks a million ... I am going to print this out and post it on the refrigerator. I guess the hardest part is accepting that I am handicapped. That because of my anxiety and depression or the side effects of treatment, I will
>
> 1. Never marry or have a loving, stable relationship
> 2. Never have children
> 3. Grow old alone
> 4. Never advance at work
> 5. Will develope multiple medical problems from the side effects of nardil like high blood pressure and diabetes for which I will need more medications
> 6. Never have a solid group of friends or support system
>
> I guess I have to face that reality someday and just accept my handcapp. Accept my life will be just 30 more years of reading psychobabble and pubmed looking for something to help and watching television alone ... while everyone else is out with there families and friends and enjoying life.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Jumpy
>
> Thanks for all the advise.
>
> Jumpy
>

Jumpy, I think you are doing some of that "fortune telling" stuff that CBT tries to address. When you start using "should" and "never" and "always" in your self-assessments you are painting yourself in a corner that doesn't exist. I'm just now starting to get involved with some CBT and *trying* to put the med hassles on the backburner. My biggest troubles are overgeneralization and catastrophic thinking. Of course, for now I welcome the challenges of managing to not get too high! It took me three tries at college to make it through and get a reasonably decent job. You are going to do OK. I wished the treatments that are available now were available when I was 19.

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch

Posted by jumpy on February 13, 2003, at 14:40:23

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy, posted by Ritch on February 13, 2003, at 13:56:08

> Jumpy, I think you are doing some of that "fortune telling" stuff that CBT tries to address. When you start using "should" and "never" and "always" in your self-assessments you are painting yourself in a corner that doesn't exist. I'm just now starting to get involved with some CBT and *trying* to put the med hassles on the backburner. My biggest troubles are overgeneralization and catastrophic thinking. Of course, for now I welcome the challenges of managing to not get too high! It took me three tries at college to make it through and get a reasonably decent job. You are going to do OK. I wished the treatments that are available now were available when I was 19.

Hey,

Unforunately, this is comes from the past 7 years of experience. Due to the side effects of nardil, I have lost 3 relationships and am not able to advance in my job (maybe in fact in on the verge of losing the job?). I have lost many friends and family due to my illness as well. I wish CBT could go back and erase those realities, but it can't.

Thanks again.

Jumpy

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life

Posted by stjames on February 13, 2003, at 15:46:07

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch, posted by jumpy on February 13, 2003, at 14:40:23

I wish CBT could go back and erase those realities, but it can't.

So create a new reality, starting now. 7 years is not a lifetime.

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch

Posted by Tabitha on February 15, 2003, at 0:25:06

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy, posted by Ritch on February 13, 2003, at 10:18:12

Thanks Ritch, I did find that inspiring. My thoughts... Once you find a med regime that keeps you halfway stable, acceptance is the next big challenge. Not just accepting the diagnosis, but accepting the reality of living with the condition, the imperfection of the available medical treatment, and the gap between what life is, and what you think it could have been without this burden.

I'm 9 years post-diagnosis, and just beginning to realize meds won't erase the condition. It feels a lot better to accept that than to fight it.

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Tabitha

Posted by Ritch on February 15, 2003, at 10:42:09

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch, posted by Tabitha on February 15, 2003, at 0:25:06

> Thanks Ritch, I did find that inspiring. My thoughts... Once you find a med regime that keeps you halfway stable, acceptance is the next big challenge. Not just accepting the diagnosis, but accepting the reality of living with the condition, the imperfection of the available medical treatment, and the gap between what life is, and what you think it could have been without this burden.
>
> I'm 9 years post-diagnosis, and just beginning to realize meds won't erase the condition. It feels a lot better to accept that than to fight it.
>


My hurdle now is: "imperfection of the available medical treatment". I've went through the acceptance of the diagnosis thing pretty quick, but it took quite some time to work through those "gap issues" you speak of. I finally found the "gap issues" mostly a mirage after awhile. I began to realize that I had known quite a few people over many years that clearly weren't mentally ill that were considered "ne'er do-wells" (but were happy), and other quite successful people (business/family) who weren't mentally ill, but .. they were just very UNhappy people! The med juggling hassle is starting to wind down some because I've tried nearly everything already. (Not that the stuff doesn't work-it's always tolerability issues, always) I am starting to lose my skepticism about the helpfulness of therapy-and that's a good sign. But my pdoc and I are avid experimenters, so that will still go on with the meds. I just need to be able to "multi-task" and accept imperfect results with the various tasks and not abanadon them because of that.

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch

Posted by jumpy on February 15, 2003, at 14:49:15

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Tabitha, posted by Ritch on February 15, 2003, at 10:42:09

> My hurdle now is: "imperfection of the available medical treatment". I've went through the acceptance of the diagnosis thing pretty quick, but it took quite some time to work through those "gap issues" you speak of. I finally found the "gap issues" mostly a mirage after awhile. I began to realize that I had known quite a few people over many years that clearly weren't mentally ill that were considered "ne'er do-wells" (but were happy), and other quite successful people (business/family) who weren't mentally ill, but .. they were just very UNhappy people!

I found that many of these chronically "unhappy" people are infact mentally ill. Most meet criteria for dysthmia or cyclothmia and respond to psychiatric medication. Would you agree?

>The med juggling hassle is starting to wind down some because I've tried nearly everything already. (Not that the stuff doesn't work-it's always tolerability issues, always) I am starting to lose my skepticism about the helpfulness of therapy-and that's a good sign.

I have alway considered therapy similar to brainwashing ... it a good sense. In therapy you continually reinforce optimistic/positive thoughts despite being a a bad situation. This doesn't not resolve your problems, but allows you to accept them and move onward. I guess it is like give a parapledgic a wheelchair. It helps the individual get around, but does not heal or change the physical paralysis ... and the solution is far from perfect. Even with the wheelchair, the individual still has many problems to contend with.

I had a year of therapy with a very good pdoc. He made me see all the negatives in my life as positives. So he convinced me that my poor work performance was actually good, my fragmented/unloving family was normal/standard, my lack of a relationship was actually me being "independent". So I did not resolve any of my issues, just accepted them and convinced myself that this was "okay" or "normal". I am not sure if this is healthy or not.

Jumpy

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy

Posted by Ritch on February 15, 2003, at 22:35:15

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch, posted by jumpy on February 15, 2003, at 14:49:15

> > My hurdle now is: "imperfection of the available medical treatment". I've went through the acceptance of the diagnosis thing pretty quick, but it took quite some time to work through those "gap issues" you speak of. I finally found the "gap issues" mostly a mirage after awhile. I began to realize that I had known quite a few people over many years that clearly weren't mentally ill that were considered "ne'er do-wells" (but were happy), and other quite successful people (business/family) who weren't mentally ill, but .. they were just very UNhappy people!
>
> I found that many of these chronically "unhappy" people are infact mentally ill. Most meet criteria for dysthmia or cyclothmia and respond to psychiatric medication. Would you agree?

The stickler is the term "criteria". That gets very philosphical. I suppose it would be entirely possible for *everyone* to be responsive in a positive way to psychiatric medication of some form or other. Huxley's "Brave New World" comes to mind (for good or ill).

>
> >The med juggling hassle is starting to wind down some because I've tried nearly everything already. (Not that the stuff doesn't work-it's always tolerability issues, always) I am starting to lose my skepticism about the helpfulness of therapy-and that's a good sign.
>
> I have alway considered therapy similar to brainwashing ... it a good sense. In therapy you continually reinforce optimistic/positive thoughts despite being a a bad situation. This doesn't not resolve your problems, but allows you to accept them and move onward. I guess it is like give a parapledgic a wheelchair. It helps the individual get around, but does not heal or change the physical paralysis ... and the solution is far from perfect. Even with the wheelchair, the individual still has many problems to contend with.

Notions about perfection are often cultural ones. American culture is probably the harshest in regard to intolerance of imperfection.


>
> I had a year of therapy with a very good pdoc. He made me see all the negatives in my life as positives. So he convinced me that my poor work performance was actually good, my fragmented/unloving family was normal/standard, my lack of a relationship was actually me being "independent". So I did not resolve any of my issues, just accepted them and convinced myself that this was "okay" or "normal". I am not sure if this is healthy or not.
>
> Jumpy


The success of SSRI medications probably has much to do with their ability to facilitate "disengagement" with "authoritative" others (parents,i.e.). When I tried Prozac for the first time in 1992, just a few weeks elapsed before I realized that I didn't really give a shit what my parents thought anymore. I stopped trying to convince them that their thoughts were "wrong" and my thoughts were "right". They just became other people that just happened to have different opinions that happened to be my parents. Just other people, not God.

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch

Posted by jumpy on February 16, 2003, at 9:19:33

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy, posted by Ritch on February 15, 2003, at 22:35:15

Quick Preface Mitch ... I am not sure if I am coming across as arguementative ... these are sincere questions and I have high regard for your opinion ... I apologize in advance if I am coming across like a jerk

> > I found that many of these chronically "unhappy" people are infact mentally ill. Most meet criteria for dysthmia or cyclothmia and respond to psychiatric medication. Would you agree?
>
> The stickler is the term "criteria". That gets very philosphical. I suppose it would be entirely possible for *everyone* to be responsive in a positive way to psychiatric medication of some form or other. Huxley's "Brave New World" comes to mind (for good or ill).

When I refer to response to a medication, I mean a dramatic change in one's mood state. Psychiatric medication should give people *potential*. They should not make people happy or sad, but give them the potential to experience these emotions in the appropriate environment. So if everyone did have this response to medication, I would agree everyone should take them. In reality, most people without mental illness do not experience a dramatic change in there mood in that the medications allow to final experience appropriate emotions.

> Notions about perfection are often cultural ones. American culture is probably the harshest in regard to intolerance of imperfection.

This is definately true ... I live in NYC and I know this contributes to my difficulties. The standard of living here is so high that it can make anyone feel inadequate.

> The success of SSRI medications probably has much to do with their ability to facilitate "disengagement" with "authoritative" others (parents,i.e.). When I tried Prozac for the first time in 1992, just a few weeks elapsed before I realized that I didn't really give a shit what my parents thought anymore. I stopped trying to convince them that their thoughts were "wrong" and my thoughts were "right". They just became other people that just happened to have different opinions that happened to be my parents. Just other people, not God.
>

So was this a good thing or bad thing? Is it better to "disengage" and develope "emotional numbness" to your problems, or better to be proactive and attempt to resolve your problems?

Thanks,

Jumpy

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy

Posted by Ritch on February 16, 2003, at 10:15:17

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch, posted by jumpy on February 16, 2003, at 9:19:33

> When I refer to response to a medication, I mean a dramatic change in one's mood state. Psychiatric medication should give people *potential*. They should not make people happy or sad, but give them the potential to experience these emotions in the appropriate environment. So if everyone did have this response to medication, I would agree everyone should take them. In reality, most people without mental illness do not experience a dramatic change in there mood in that the medications allow to final experience appropriate emotions.

I think I understand what you mean. There are many people who do not get any medical treatment at all for what is clearly a psychiatric condition. Someone I knew who is bipolarI (with primarily recurrent moderately intense manias) went untreated the first 40 years of his life. He never appeared to be unhappy and never said so, and was quite successful business-wise. However, his FAMILY was profoundly unhappy when his episodes struck. They were very relieved when he responded to lithium. He didn't seem very relieved but continued to take it because THEY wanted him to. I suppose what I was referring to was the "better than normal" phenomeona that gets talked about (usually with respect to SSRI's and psychostimulants). If you are taking a "personal life enhancer" or a "productivity augmentation agent", then what kind of illness are you treating? Let's say Prozac helps you sell real-estate better because it warms your personality up and makes you unusually charming (despite not being anxious or depressed in any way), and you take Provigil so you can fly more missions over Iraq without getting drowsy or stay over at the office an extra four hours to get even more work done despite no change in salary-to keep from losing your job (even though you don't have ADD or narcolepsy). I suppose I have got a *point* somewhere-but I'm not sure. It just seems like a henomenon that is for sure happening, but I don't know what will happen as a result (good or bad). I suppose when you add it all up the economy will be better and we will be more happy? Maybe.

> So was this a good thing or bad thing? Is it better to "disengage" and develope "emotional numbness" to your problems, or better to be proactive and attempt to resolve your problems?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jumpy

In some cases the problem is the person's *perception* that it is a problem in the first place. What if the whole thing wasn't a problem at all? Something your mind created to torment you with? SSRI's help me (IMO), not by "numbing my emotions", but by eliminating problems that don't exist in the first place. Kind of like eliminating all of the junk mail from your head. Maybe I don't seem to experience "numbness" from them because of the tiny doses I take. I think many could make a case for overmedication as well as undermedication (untreated people).

 

Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » Ritch

Posted by jumpy on February 16, 2003, at 21:07:30

In reply to Re: Ritch:Juggling Meds and Frustrating life » jumpy, posted by Ritch on February 16, 2003, at 10:15:17

Very interesting stuff ... thanks a million!

Jumpy


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