Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 139626

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

chromium deficiency in atypical depression?

Posted by Larry Hoover on February 5, 2003, at 16:25:15

Just published:

Biol Psychiatry 2003 Feb 1;53(3):261-264

Effectiveness of chromium in atypical depression: a placebo-controlled trial.

Davidson JR, Abraham K, Connor KM, McLeod MN.

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Duke University Medical Center, (JRTD, KA, KMC), Durham, North Carolina, USA

Chromium picolinate (CP) has been reported to benefit patients with symptoms of atypical depression.A placebo-controlled, double-blind, pilot study of CP was conducted in 15 patients with DSM-IV major depressive disorder, atypical type. Patients received 600 &mgr;g of CP or matching placebo (PBO) for 8 weeks.Seven (70%) CP and zero (0%) PBO patients met responder criteria (p =.02). Other outcomes were consistent with greater effect of CP. Three patients on CP failed to show any improvement. Chromium picolinate was well tolerated.Chromium picolinate shows promising antidepressant effects in atypical depression. Its mechanism of action may relate to 5HT(2A) downregulation, increased insulin sensitivity, or to other effects.

 

Re: chromium deficiency in atypical depression? Larry Hoover

Posted by missinglynxx on February 5, 2003, at 18:25:32

In reply to chromium deficiency in atypical depression?, posted by Larry Hoover on February 5, 2003, at 16:25:15

> Just published:
>
> Biol Psychiatry 2003 Feb 1;53(3):261-264
>
> Effectiveness of chromium in atypical depression: a placebo-controlled trial.
>
> Davidson JR, Abraham K, Connor KM, McLeod MN.
>
> Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Duke University Medical Center, (JRTD, KA, KMC), Durham, North Carolina, USA
>
> Chromium picolinate (CP) has been reported to benefit patients with symptoms of atypical depression.A placebo-controlled, double-blind, pilot study of CP was conducted in 15 patients with DSM-IV major depressive disorder, atypical type. Patients received 600 &mgr;g of CP or matching placebo (PBO) for 8 weeks.Seven (70%) CP and zero (0%) PBO patients met responder criteria (p =.02). Other outcomes were consistent with greater effect of CP. Three patients on CP failed to show any improvement. Chromium picolinate was well tolerated.Chromium picolinate shows promising antidepressant effects in atypical depression. Its mechanism of action may relate to 5HT(2A) downregulation, increased insulin sensitivity, or to other effects.
>
>

Thanks alot Buddy,, Thats fascinating stuff (70 percent is HUGE) Have you purchased this yet. Larry? Good luck if you do

 

Re: chromium deficiency in atypical depression?

Posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 20:12:18

In reply to chromium deficiency in atypical depression?, posted by Larry Hoover on February 5, 2003, at 16:25:15

> (70%) CP and zero (0%) PBO patients met responder criteria (p =.02). Other outcomes were consistent with greater effect of CP.

This looks like promising news except for one thing--what were there "responder criteria"--a 10% improvement???? 20%????

 

Re: chromium deficiency in atypical depression?

Posted by Larry Hoover on February 5, 2003, at 20:22:41

In reply to Re: chromium deficiency in atypical depression?, posted by Jack Smith on February 5, 2003, at 20:12:18

> > (70%) CP and zero (0%) PBO patients met responder criteria (p =.02). Other outcomes were consistent with greater effect of CP.
>
> This looks like promising news except for one thing--what were there "responder criteria"--a 10% improvement???? 20%????

Yes, you've identified the primary limitation in interpreting this small study; it certainly matters what the responder criteria are. However, if the margin of improvement were as slim as you suggest, it would be unlikely that none of the placebo group improved that much by chance or coincidence.

I haven't had time to look into the dose. Does anyone know if 600 mcg is a lot of chromium?

Lar

 

Been there done that

Posted by Jaynee on February 5, 2003, at 20:42:48

In reply to chromium deficiency in atypical depression?, posted by Larry Hoover on February 5, 2003, at 16:25:15

I took about 400mcg for about 2 months, I took it mostly for weight loss. I didn't lose any weight and I didn't notice any help with depression symptoms. Most chromium picolinate pills come in 200mcg. 600mcg doesn't sound all that high. Basically 3 pills a day. I once bought gum with chromium picolinate in it.

I did try taking chromium picolinate with Celexa about 10 months ago. I had to quit, because it was way to activating. I started to get that anxious feeling I got when I started Celexa. So with an AD, I believe it works for me, but on it's own, it really didn't do much.

There are a lot of studies out there on Chromium, so you will have lots to read.

 

Re: Been there done that

Posted by Larry Hoover on February 6, 2003, at 7:44:08

In reply to Been there done that, posted by Jaynee on February 5, 2003, at 20:42:48

> I took about 400mcg for about 2 months, I took it mostly for weight loss. I didn't lose any weight and I didn't notice any help with depression symptoms. Most chromium picolinate pills come in 200mcg. 600mcg doesn't sound all that high. Basically 3 pills a day. I once bought gum with chromium picolinate in it.
>
> I did try taking chromium picolinate with Celexa about 10 months ago. I had to quit, because it was way to activating. I started to get that anxious feeling I got when I started Celexa. So with an AD, I believe it works for me, but on it's own, it really didn't do much.
>
> There are a lot of studies out there on Chromium, so you will have lots to read.

Well, apparently the Acceptable Daily Intake of chromium is 25 grams, so taking 600 mg (as they did in this study) is really no big deal.

There is precious little about the effects of chromium on depression, but improved glucose utilization is believed to enhance serotonergic neurotransmission (brain uptake of tryptophan is insulin-regulated), and there may be effects on norepinephrine as well.

Altern Med Rev 2002 Jun;7(3):218-35

The safety and efficacy of high-dose chromium.

Lamson DS, Plaza SM.

Bastyr University, Kenmore, WA, USA. davisl@seanet.com

The data on the standards for chromium requirements and the safety of various chromium compounds and doses are reviewed. The 350-fold difference between the acceptable daily intake and the calculated reference dose for humans of 70 mg per day seems without precedent with respect to other nutritional minerals. Previous claims of mutagenic effects of chromium are of questionable relevance. While studies have found DNA fragmentation (clastogenic effects) by chromium picolinate, anecdotal reports of high-dose chromium picolinate toxicity are few and ambiguous. The beneficial effects of chromium on serum glucose and lipids and insulin resistance occur even in the healthy. Serum glucose can be improved by chromium supplementation in both types 1 and 2 diabetes, and the effect appears dose dependent. Relative absorption of various chromium compounds is summarized and the mechanism of low molecular weight chromium binding substance (LMWCr) in up-regulating the insulin effect eight-fold is discussed. There is evidence of hormonal effects of supplemental chromium besides the effect on insulin. Chromium supplementation does result in tissue retention, especially in the kidney, although no pathogenic effect has been demonstrated despite considerable study.

Int J Neuropsychopharmacol 2000 Dec;3(4):311-314

Chromium treatment of depression.

McLeod MN, Golden RN.

Eight patients with refractory mood disorders received chromium supplements and described dramatic improvements in their symptoms and functioning. In several instances, single-blind trials confirmed specificity of response to chromium. Side-effects were rare and mild, and most commonly included enhanced dreaming and mild psychomotor activation. To our knowledge, this is the first case series describing the response to chromium monotherapy. The putative antidepressant effects of chromium could be accounted for by enhancement of insulin utilization and related increases in tryptophan availability in the central nervous system, and/or by chromium's effects on norepinephrine release.


 

Re: Been there done that

Posted by Darwin on February 6, 2003, at 12:28:15

In reply to Re: Been there done that, posted by Larry Hoover on February 6, 2003, at 7:44:08

> Well, apparently the Acceptable Daily Intake of chromium is 25 grams, so taking 600 mg (as they did in this study) is really no big deal.
>

Larry, I think you got your mg & mcg mixed up and went astray in your calculations.

A daily dose of 25 grams would probably be lethal and 600 mcg (not mg) was used in the study.

The Daily Value of chromium is 120 mcg and chromium supplements usually provide 200 mcg per capsule (167% DV). So, in order to ingest 25 grams of chromium, one would have to take 125,000 capsules per day!

However, I agree with your conclusion that the amount used in the study, 600 mcg per day, is probably safe.

>
> Altern Med Rev 2002 Jun;7(3):218-35
>
> The safety and efficacy of high-dose chromium.
>
> Lamson DS, Plaza SM.
>
> Bastyr University, Kenmore, WA, USA. davisl@seanet.com
>
> The data on the standards for chromium requirements and the safety of various chromium compounds and doses are reviewed. The 350-fold difference between the acceptable daily intake and the calculated reference dose for humans of 70 mg per day seems without precedent with respect to other nutritional minerals.

I think you should have calculated 70mg/350 rather than 70mg*350. 70mg/350 = 200mcg. So that gives a range of 200mcg to 70mg.

Darwin

 

Re: Thanks for catching my mistakes

Posted by Larry Hoover on February 6, 2003, at 15:43:45

In reply to Re: Been there done that, posted by Darwin on February 6, 2003, at 12:28:15

> > Well, apparently the Acceptable Daily Intake of chromium is 25 grams, so taking 600 mg (as they did in this study) is really no big deal.
> >
>
> Larry, I think you got your mg & mcg mixed up and went astray in your calculations.

Doh!

> A daily dose of 25 grams would probably be lethal and 600 mcg (not mg) was used in the study.
>
> The Daily Value of chromium is 120 mcg and chromium supplements usually provide 200 mcg per capsule (167% DV). So, in order to ingest 25 grams of chromium, one would have to take 125,000 capsules per day!
>
> However, I agree with your conclusion that the amount used in the study, 600 mcg per day, is probably safe.

Yes, it's right in line with some very conservative practices with regards to chromium supplementation.

> > Altern Med Rev 2002 Jun;7(3):218-35
> >
> > The safety and efficacy of high-dose chromium.
> >
> > Lamson DS, Plaza SM.
> >
> > Bastyr University, Kenmore, WA, USA. davisl@seanet.com
> >
> > The data on the standards for chromium requirements and the safety of various chromium compounds and doses are reviewed. The 350-fold difference between the acceptable daily intake and the calculated reference dose for humans of 70 mg per day seems without precedent with respect to other nutritional minerals.
>
> I think you should have calculated 70mg/350 rather than 70mg*350. 70mg/350 = 200mcg. So that gives a range of 200mcg to 70mg.
>
> Darwin

Correct all around. I don't know what I was thinking (apparently I wasn't thinking at all).

Thanks for correcting these obvious errors.

Lar

 

Re: Thanks for catching my mistakes Larry Hoover

Posted by Darwin on February 6, 2003, at 16:30:00

In reply to Re: Thanks for catching my mistakes, posted by Larry Hoover on February 6, 2003, at 15:43:45

>
> Thanks for correcting these obvious errors.
>
> Lar
>
>

You're welcome ... and thanks for all the valuable information you have provided, and continue to provide, in this forum.

Darwin

 

I found it very stimulating

Posted by linkadge on February 6, 2003, at 18:21:15

In reply to Re: Thanks for catching my mistakes Larry Hoover, posted by Darwin on February 6, 2003, at 16:30:00

ALthough not atypical, I gave chromium a try.
I found it very activating and could feel
a stimulating effect at just two X 250 mg
Unfortunately I am typical and it was too energising. Give it a try if you have troubble
getting out of bed in the morn.

Linkadge

 

Re: chromium deficiency in atypical depression?

Posted by noa on February 6, 2003, at 21:46:07

In reply to chromium deficiency in atypical depression?, posted by Larry Hoover on February 5, 2003, at 16:25:15

I have been taking 400 mcg (2x200)of chromium picolinate for about 6-8 months, per the recommendation of my new pdoc, whom I started seeing last spring. I have never noticed any dramatic difference with the chromium, but it doesn't hurt, either, and it has other benefits, like helping reduce insulin resistance, which I also have.

 

Re: chromium deficiency in atypical depression?

Posted by noa on February 6, 2003, at 21:47:23

In reply to chromium deficiency in atypical depression?, posted by Larry Hoover on February 5, 2003, at 16:25:15

BTW, this pdoc also recommended Folic Acid for depression.


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