Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 135349

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?

Posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

I have less than 45 mg on hand.

I want to make clear that my intent is not to kill myself. My intent is to silence the #%@* impulses to do so. I'm hoping the knowledge of inevitable embarassment and lack of success will help stop the obsessions.

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Dinah

Posted by BrittPark on January 11, 2003, at 15:25:26

In reply to You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

I'm sorry your feeling bad. Yes, you're right, 45mg is unlikely to kill you. Hope that helps some. Keep us posted.

Feel Better,
Britt

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Dinah

Posted by BrittPark on January 11, 2003, at 15:39:17

In reply to You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

If it makes you feel any better, you don't have nearly enough klonopin. LD50s for benzos are xxx.

Feel Better,

Britt

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Dinah

Posted by Noa on January 11, 2003, at 15:47:59

In reply to You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

Dinah, dear: we need you too much!

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? BrittPark

Posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 15:53:24

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Dinah, posted by BrittPark on January 11, 2003, at 15:39:17

Thanks Britt,

Anything that helps me make light of the obsessions helps a lot. And that's all they are, they're just danged inconvenient.

Thanks again,

Dinah

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Noa

Posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 15:54:20

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Dinah, posted by Noa on January 11, 2003, at 15:47:59

I'm not planning to, Noa. But the obsessions come unbidden and I sometimes need help shaking them.

Thanks,

Dinah

 

Re: Good :- ) (nm) Dinah

Posted by Noa on January 11, 2003, at 16:32:47

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Noa, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 15:54:20

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Dinah

Posted by Ritch on January 11, 2003, at 20:34:37

In reply to You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

> I have less than 45 mg on hand.
>
> I want to make clear that my intent is not to kill myself. My intent is to silence the #%@* impulses to do so. I'm hoping the knowledge of inevitable embarassment and lack of success will help stop the obsessions.

Dinah, I *knew* that a handful of diazepam wouldn't kill me but I took it anyway a couple of times when I went off lithium back in the late '80's and got very very depressed. I just wanted to sleep a couple of days and not experience any more negative thoughts for awhile. I woke up on the floor about 18hrs later and turned on the TV fixed some coffee and called into work as sick. Fortunately, I was OK afterwards. ---Mitch

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?

Posted by Dave1 on January 11, 2003, at 20:45:11

In reply to You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

I think you need very high dose to kill yourself with any BZ.

Dave

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?

Posted by viridis on January 11, 2003, at 23:31:30

In reply to You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

It takes a lot of Klonopin (or other benzos) to achieve a lethal dose. However, adding alcohol to the mix can be extremely dangerous -- the two act synergistically to open ion channels in key neurons in a way that can shut down breathing etc., and a much lower dose of a benzo can be deadly in the presence of alcohol. From what I know, though, the results are unpredictable, and you could easily just wind up making yourself feel awful without relief of any kind.

You made it pretty clear that you aren't suicidal (thank goodness!). But if you were to take a megadose of benzos, then you'd probably run out before your next pdoc appointment (unless you have a huge stockpile). Also, an overdose would be likely to prevent future prescriptions of benzos, and possibly other drugs that help you. So, from a purely practical perspective, taking a big handful of Klonopin is a bad idea.

I've also heard anecdotal reports that large doses of benzos can trigger depression, although I don't have any references to back this up.

So, it probably wouldn't kill you, but it could make you feel very uncomfortable when you wake up, and the long-term repercussions might be very serious in terms of your treatment.

I hope those are good incentives to avoid overdosing, and I wish you all the best. And, if you're having a rough time, why not call your psychiatrist and see if he or she can help?

 

Re: Thanks everyone....

Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2003, at 3:28:37

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by viridis on January 11, 2003, at 23:31:30

I backed up the knowledge that I couldn't do any lasting harm anyway with a request to my husband to hold the klonopin for a few days. That wasn't an easy conversation, but it does make the obsessing easier. :)

I'm a bit afraid to mention this to my pdoc for fear that he'll suggest a trial of something, and med trials are too destabilizing for me to undergo right now. I do have some risperdal to use as needed, and if the obsessions don't go away, I'll assume it's needed.

Thanks everyone.

Dinah

 

Re: Thanks everyone.... Dinah

Posted by judy1 on January 12, 2003, at 16:16:12

In reply to Re: Thanks everyone...., posted by Dinah on January 12, 2003, at 3:28:37

You sound like things are under a little better control and I'm glad you asked your husband for help- that was brave of you. I took about 30 2mg klonopins once (it was the rest of the bottle) and although it didn't kill me, I got to have my stomach pumped (no fun there), spent 72 hours in the psych ward for a suicide watch, lost my shrink because I didn't keep my contract of telling him that I felt suicidal, and caused my family a LOT of grief. So while it wasn't lethal, it caused others pain (that was never my intent). I won't do it again. Take care, judy

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 13, 2003, at 4:34:56

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Dinah, posted by BrittPark on January 11, 2003, at 15:39:17

> If it makes you feel any better, you don't have nearly enough klonopin. LD50s for benzos are xxx.

Thanks for supporting Dinah, but that information could also have been used by someone to hurt themselves, so I deleted it.

Bob

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?

Posted by Cecilia on January 14, 2003, at 4:33:44

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dr. Bob on January 13, 2003, at 4:34:56

Judy, you lost your shrink because you tried to kill yourself? What a totally rotten unprofessional jerk!!!!! Doctors are supposed to help patients, not punish them for being sick! Really, dealing with the medical profession is all a game though. You`ve got to walk that fine line between convincing them you need the meds and not convincing them you might kill yourself with them. Sometimes I don`t think most doctors really see patients as people, just potential lawsuits. Cecilia

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right? Cecilia

Posted by judy1 on January 14, 2003, at 11:05:34

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Cecilia on January 14, 2003, at 4:33:44

Thanks Cecilia, I looked at it as kicking someone when they're down (and I'm sure he saw a lawsuit). Although it hurt then, I have a much better team now. Thanks for the concern, judy

 

Risperdal Dinah

Posted by shar on January 15, 2003, at 12:50:59

In reply to Re: Thanks everyone...., posted by Dinah on January 12, 2003, at 3:28:37

Dinah,
You mentioned Risperdal. Did you try it? That was one of the best meds ever for me, taking it regularly, but I started to get pretty twitchy and pdoc and I decided to discontinue it.

I hadn't even heard of it being used 'as needed.' Does it help if you just take it a day or two?

BTW, sure glad you're feeling better. And, like others said, I'm glad you didn't do anything that would prevent you from having K in the future (or other similar meds).

Shar


> I backed up the knowledge that I couldn't do any lasting harm anyway with a request to my husband to hold the klonopin for a few days. That wasn't an easy conversation, but it does make the obsessing easier. :)
>
> I'm a bit afraid to mention this to my pdoc for fear that he'll suggest a trial of something, and med trials are too destabilizing for me to undergo right now. I do have some risperdal to use as needed, and if the obsessions don't go away, I'll assume it's needed.
>
> Thanks everyone.
>
> Dinah

 

Re: Risperdal shar

Posted by Dinah on January 15, 2003, at 13:02:33

In reply to Risperdal Dinah, posted by shar on January 15, 2003, at 12:50:59

Thanks, Shar.

I found that Risperdal had an immediate impact when I started it. I didn't like one of the side effects, plus I'm a bit wary of antipsychotics, atypical or otherwise, so I asked my pdoc if I could use it as needed. He was ok with that, although he stated that I wouldn't get the full benefit of it that way. During the week or so I was on it, all I really noticed was a slight tranquilizing effect, so he's probably right.

 

Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?

Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 16, 2003, at 20:02:52

In reply to You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dinah on January 11, 2003, at 14:50:56

Just thought I'd throw in here that my current dosing schedule of clonazepam is actually 4mg bid, and two doses of thirty milligrams every other Sunday. This is in addition to 20mg diazepam bid, 2mg alprazolam qid, and sublingual lorazepam 4mg prn. It sounds like a really bizarre presribing tactic to employ, I know, but my God does it work.

--Michael

 

Re: Lost post but DR BOB your ETHICS

Posted by chad_3 on January 17, 2003, at 13:04:57

In reply to Re: You can't kill yourself with Klonopin right?, posted by Dr. Bob on January 13, 2003, at 4:34:56

Hey Bob -

My post is lost so briefly ....

You are a Dr. and also a webmaster editing patient posts. Your board is filled with misinformation and some dangerous (I got a toxic idea from your site - for example - which resulted in ongoing problem).

You leave a lot of the toxic stuff up - you take off what you don't like.

I propose your ethics are out of line.

I would ask you to consider if you are doing net good for people reading your site.

I doubt it.

I seriously ask you to consider shutting down your board in lieu of any cost/benefit burden on viewers.

You benefit (you learn or love or enjoy) - but please ascertain that you help others (net help).

And remember you discourage negative posts - delete some - and people here do not represent the average view.

Do you think people like Dr. Jack Gorman or Dr. William Wirshing (who interviewed me in front of 30 UCLA students and discouraged the "junk out there" when I mentioned (with some *embarrasement* or even *shame* that I had obtained a very toxic idea from "Dr. Bob's Website - a funny name and a sad interview we had) - anyway

Dr. you think those like Dr. Jack Gorman and Dr. William Wishing would recommned a site like yours to patients.

I propose most good Dr's would HIGHLY DISCOURAGE USE OF YOUR SITE.

DO YOU EVER THINK ABOUT THIS DR. BOB - AND / OR DO YOU CARE?

PLEASE CONSIDER SHUTTING DOWN YOUR SITE AFTER GIVING CONSIDERATION TO WHAT YOU ARE PRESENTING TO OTHERS AND HOW IT AFFECTS THEM

CHAD
HTTP://WWW.SOCIALFEAR.COM/

> > If it makes you feel any better, you don't have nearly enough klonopin. LD50s for benzos are xxx.
>
> Thanks for supporting Dinah, but that information could also have been used by someone to hurt themselves, so I deleted it.
>
> Bob
>

 

Re: Lost post but DR BOB your ETHICS chad_3

Posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 17:37:42

In reply to Re: Lost post but DR BOB your ETHICS, posted by chad_3 on January 17, 2003, at 13:04:57

Chad please consider making an adverse event report as described at

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20021128/msgs/8610.html

This could help make the site safer for others as well as helping Bob more accurately gauge the effect of the site on its participants.
....
>
> You are a Dr. and also a webmaster editing patient posts. Your board is filled with misinformation and some dangerous (I got a toxic idea from your site - for example - which resulted in ongoing problem).
>
> You leave a lot of the toxic stuff up - you take off what you don't like.
>
> I propose your ethics are out of line.
>
> I would ask you to consider if you are doing net good for people reading your site.
>
> I doubt it.
>
> I seriously ask you to consider shutting down your board in lieu of any cost/benefit burden on viewers.
>
> You benefit (you learn or love or enjoy) - but please ascertain that you help others (net help).
>
> And remember you discourage negative posts - delete some - and people here do not represent the average view.
>
> Do you think people like Dr. Jack Gorman or Dr. William Wirshing (who interviewed me in front of 30 UCLA students and discouraged the "junk out there" when I mentioned (with some *embarrasement* or even *shame* that I had obtained a very toxic idea from "Dr. Bob's Website - a funny name and a sad interview we had) - anyway
>
> Dr. you think those like Dr. Jack Gorman and Dr. William Wishing would recommned a site like yours to patients.
>
> I propose most good Dr's would HIGHLY DISCOURAGE USE OF YOUR SITE.
>
> DO YOU EVER THINK ABOUT THIS DR. BOB - AND / OR DO YOU CARE?
>
> PLEASE CONSIDER SHUTTING DOWN YOUR SITE AFTER GIVING CONSIDERATION TO WHAT YOU ARE PRESENTING TO OTHERS AND HOW IT AFFECTS THEM
>
> CHAD
> HTTP://WWW.SOCIALFEAR.COM/
>
>
>
> > > If it makes you feel any better, you don't have nearly enough klonopin. LD50s for benzos are xxx.
> >
> > Thanks for supporting Dinah, but that information could also have been used by someone to hurt themselves, so I deleted it.
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
>

 

Hold On Chad.................

Posted by Jaynee on January 17, 2003, at 17:44:07

In reply to Re: Lost post but DR BOB your ETHICS, posted by chad_3 on January 17, 2003, at 13:04:57

The posts are not the opinion of Dr. Bob, but of those who post. Everything that you read whether it is in print or on the net, has to be taken with a grain of salt. The old saying "Don't believe everything you read", comes to mind.

I personally am very grateful for this site, and appreciate it. I would like it better if it wasn't edited at all, but maybe then things would get out of control. Some control is a good thing. But I personally like living in a free society, where the healthy exchange of ideas flow easily and freely. As adults we are the only ones to blame for our own actions.

 

Re: Hold On Chad.................

Posted by shar on January 18, 2003, at 0:05:02

In reply to Hold On Chad................., posted by Jaynee on January 17, 2003, at 17:44:07

In addition to what Jaynee says, I'm very surprised that whatever you read here did not have a variety of opinions expressed about it, some that would have warned against an idea that was so apparently harmful. Generally, if there is misinformation in a thread it is corrected by others. On this type of forum, I believe that is what we should expect. That level of participation is what is 'advertised' in all the caveats issued when you register and in the FAQ--this site is not promoted as a physician's advice, or medical care and advice forum, nor does it indicate anywhere that the forum is monitored and/or maintained by medical personnel.

People can discuss their meds here--regular people, but self-diagnosis and self-medication are not 'officially' encouraged/recommended (even the majority of posters recommend people talk to their pdocs before modifying their meds).

If you have suggestions about how to make this more clear, that could be very helpful. However, eliminating this forum would, imo, do much more harm than good. I would hate to lose one of the only forums of this type, where people can talk about their meds experiences openly, with other folks who are on or may have been on the same meds. It is rare, in real life, to meet anybody on the same meds, and then there is the n=1 problem, to boot.

Shar


> The posts are not the opinion of Dr. Bob, but of those who post. Everything that you read whether it is in print or on the net, has to be taken with a grain of salt. The old saying "Don't believe everything you read", comes to mind.
>
> I personally am very grateful for this site, and appreciate it. I would like it better if it wasn't edited at all, but maybe then things would get out of control. Some control is a good thing. But I personally like living in a free society, where the healthy exchange of ideas flow easily and freely. As adults we are the only ones to blame for our own actions.
>
>

 

Note Risperdal post stays - klonopin is deleted

Posted by chad_3 on January 18, 2003, at 1:27:23

In reply to Hold On Chad................., posted by Jaynee on January 17, 2003, at 17:44:07

See above for example...

Risperdal posts - a drug more toxic in producing permanent movement disorders than "initially thought" as the new and "safe atypical" gaining rapid acceptance for anxiety and mood treatment.

Risperdal is now considered not too much safer than old neuroleptics - only that is is better for negative symptoms.

It is very difficult to gain knowledge about a medication w/o knowing patient history also - which is lacking in most all posts here...

I suggest Gorman's paperback instead...

Last - I propose that this board is used more as a "entertainment" or "social substituation".

I think this board has an illusion as being "educational" and the Dr. involvement is harmful I think. Like most of WWW, it lacks content - similar to daytime talk shows.

Pornography is the mainstay moneymaker of WWW - has been and will be - most of time most of us spend on WWW ends up wasted.... don't u think?

Chad

> The posts are not the opinion of Dr. Bob, but of those who post. Everything that you read whether it is in print or on the net, has to be taken with a grain of salt. The old saying "Don't believe everything you read", comes to mind.
>
> I personally am very grateful for this site, and appreciate it. I would like it better if it wasn't edited at all, but maybe then things would get out of control. Some control is a good thing. But I personally like living in a free society, where the healthy exchange of ideas flow easily and freely. As adults we are the only ones to blame for our own actions.
>
>

 

Free speech, ethics, etc.

Posted by viridis on January 18, 2003, at 3:52:37

In reply to Re: Lost post but DR BOB your ETHICS, posted by chad_3 on January 17, 2003, at 13:04:57

Chad,

I find your idea regarding "free speech" etc. a little odd. Thus is Dr.Bob's site, and he's free to edit it as he sees fit, since he's responsible for it. I don't think it's unreasonable to modify posts that suggest lethal doses of meds, or sources of drugs that are illegal in the U.S. I don't always agree with the warnings or blocks, but since it's his site, he can exercise whatever judgement he wants, and if people don't like it, then they shouldn't frequent this site.

Not all the advice given here is totally sound, but people with experience can sift through it pretty efffectively. For those less experienced, there are usually enough alternative views that they can at least see the range of opinions. This is pretty rare on the net.

I think my judgement is fairly good, I'm not naive, and I get a lot of good information from this site. I take it all with a grain of salt, but clearly a lot of the posters know what they're talking about either technically, or based on experience, or (usually) both.

Do you really think that shutting down this site would help the majority of those who use it? I don't -- it's a very useful forum for exchange of information, and if a bad suggestion slips through once in a while, so be it --that's free speech, with all of its risks (and benefits).

 

Redirect: shutting down

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2003, at 11:54:59

In reply to Re: Hold On Chad................., posted by shar on January 18, 2003, at 0:05:02

> I seriously ask you to consider shutting down your board in lieu of any cost/benefit burden on viewers.
>
> chad_3

I'd like discussion about administrative issues (like whether to shut down the board) to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20021128/msgs/8860.html

> Everything that you read whether it is in print or on the net, has to be taken with a grain of salt. The old saying "Don't believe everything you read", comes to mind.
>
> Jaynee

> Generally, if there is misinformation in a thread it is corrected by others. On this type of forum, I believe that is what we should expect.
>
> Shar

> Not all the advice given here is totally sound, but people with experience can sift through it pretty efffectively. For those less experienced, there are usually enough alternative views that they can at least see the range of opinions. This is pretty rare on the net.
>
> I think my judgement is fairly good, I'm not naive, and I get a lot of good information from this site. I take it all with a grain of salt, but clearly a lot of the posters know what they're talking about either technically, or based on experience, or (usually) both.
>
> viridis

On the other hand, I'm not sure the issue of how to approach information here is strictly administrative, so let's try allowing discussion of that to continue here. Regarding the quality of information online, see also:

http://www.dr-bob.org/quality.html

Bob


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