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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 0:35:23
I am curious if anyone is taking St. Johns Wort and having good results, and if they are also taking Fish Oil? Are there any dangers of mixing these and having too much of a seretonin reaction (like seretonin syndrome)? I am taking a good quality SJW called Nature's Way Perika to try and get through this episode (triggered by Testosterone Replacement Therapy gone bad) in order to try and normalize my brain chemistry and I am looking to add in Fish Oil for both short and longer term preventative measures. I live in Canada and was wondering if anyone knows a good, clean, fish oil product available in Canada. I am very wary of taking prescription meds (SSRI's) as I have heard so many horror stories. I have been on SJW for 2 weeks and although it's been pretty up and down, I think in general it is definitely better than when I started. Certainly the lows aren't as severe which is good!
For anyone interested in more info on St. Johns Wort there is a great site here:
Check out the discussion forum - it's very informative.
One other thing - I also have been prescribed a Proton Pump Inhibitor for a Hiatal Hernia, and I was wondering about any problems with taking the fish oil while taking a PPI in particular, as PPI's reduce acid secretion in the stomach. Will this affect the digestion of fish oil? Is anyone else taking PPI and fish oil? Are there any problems?
Sorry for the somewhat long rambling post, but I have a bunch of issues and I'm trying to deal with them and take the least amount of prescriptions possible, so none of the doctors have any answers to my questions as they are generally uninformed when it comes to herbs and more natural treatment options.
Thanks for your help.
Posted by Noa on January 17, 2003, at 6:12:28
In reply to Fish Oil, Saint Johns Wort Proton Pump Inhibitor, posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 0:35:23
I am using Carlson's fish oil liquid. It was highly recommended by a pharmacy specializing in supplements, who said it is a very clean product. It has a lemon flavor. It is from Norway, but I don't know if it is sold in Canada.
Posted by Darwin on January 17, 2003, at 11:04:38
In reply to Fish Oil, Saint Johns Wort Proton Pump Inhibitor, posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 0:35:23
I just started using a fish oil product made in Canada named "RxOmega-3 Factors". It claims to be "pharmaceutical grade" and contains 400 mg of EPA and 200 mg of DHA. A good starting dose would be about 3 capsules per day. So far I'm favorable impressed with the product.
This is the same product recommended and sold by Barry Sears (of The Zone Diet fame) but please do not purchase this product from their web site. Their prices are obscenely high and I hate rewarding price gougers.
I purchased this product from http://iherb.com/ (my favorite online health food store) at less than half the price charged by the Sears site. Compared to other high quality fish oil products, RxOmega-3 Factors seems to be an excellent value.
Darwin
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 17, 2003, at 11:07:49
In reply to Fish Oil, Saint Johns Wort Proton Pump Inhibitor, posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 0:35:23
> I am curious if anyone is taking St. Johns Wort and having good results, and if they are also taking Fish Oil? Are there any dangers of mixing these and having too much of a seretonin reaction (like seretonin syndrome)?
There is no danger in taking SJW and fish oil at the same time. They are complementary, acting quite independently to stabilize and improve the mood.
>I am taking a good quality SJW called Nature's Way Perika to try and get through this episode (triggered by Testosterone Replacement Therapy gone bad) in order to try and normalize my brain chemistry and I am looking to add in Fish Oil for both short and longer term preventative measures.I've taken SJW a number of times over the years, and have had good success with it. The interesting thing about Perika was that it caused sexual dysfunction in me, the only brand I've ever experienced that with. I backed off on the Perika, and took it alongside another SJW product (same total dose, just a blend of two products), and the SD side effect disappeared.
>I live in Canada and was wondering if anyone knows a good, clean, fish oil product available in Canada.
The fish oil sold under the Spring Valley brand at Walmart is fine. Swiss Herbal markets a variety of salmon oils, including one derived from wild-caught salmon.
>I am very wary of taking prescription meds (SSRI's) as I have heard so many horror stories. I have been on SJW for 2 weeks and although it's been pretty up and down, I think in general it is definitely better than when I started. Certainly the lows aren't as severe which is good!
My experience with SJW is that it gently nudges me back to an acceptable mood state. Nothing sudden or drastic. Just a smooth uptick in mood. I remain reactive to my environment, but don't get the negative stuff locking in.
> For anyone interested in more info on St. Johns Wort there is a great site here:
>
> http://www.sjwinfo.org/
>
> Check out the discussion forum - it's very informative.
>
> One other thing - I also have been prescribed a Proton Pump Inhibitor for a Hiatal Hernia, and I was wondering about any problems with taking the fish oil while taking a PPI in particular, as PPI's reduce acid secretion in the stomach. Will this affect the digestion of fish oil? Is anyone else taking PPI and fish oil? Are there any problems?Fats are "digested" in the intestine, after passing out of the stomach. Bile acids and fat-digesting enzymes interact to break down triglycerides into free fatty acids, and dissolve them for uptake across the intestinal membrane.
Proton-pump inhibitors do help control acid reflux, but there is a price to pay. Vitamin B-12 cannot be efficiently absorbed in the absence of stomach acid. It can take a couple of years for overt symptoms of B-12 deficiency to appear. I strongly recommend taking high-dose B-12 supplements if you're on a PPI. They're readily available as 1,000 mcg tablets, and quite inexpensive too. BTW, acid reflux can be caused by magnesium or B-12 deficiency.
> Sorry for the somewhat long rambling post, but I have a bunch of issues and I'm trying to deal with them and take the least amount of prescriptions possible, so none of the doctors have any answers to my questions as they are generally uninformed when it comes to herbs and more natural treatment options.
>
> Thanks for your help.I'd be happy to expand on any of these issues. You're welcome.
Lar
Posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 11:45:28
In reply to Fish Oil, Saint Johns Wort Proton Pump Inhibitor, posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 0:35:23
Thanks you for your replies about brands, but I was wondering if someone could comment on the other questions in my original post. Larry, if you are around, you seem to be most knowledgable in these types of questions. Can you please take a look at my original post and answer anything that you can? Thanks in advance!
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 17, 2003, at 11:50:59
In reply to Fish Oil, St John Wort Proton Pump Larry Hoover, posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 11:45:28
> Thanks you for your replies about brands, but I was wondering if someone could comment on the other questions in my original post. Larry, if you are around, you seem to be most knowledgable in these types of questions. Can you please take a look at my original post and answer anything that you can? Thanks in advance!
I'm confused. I thought I answered them all.Lar
Posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 12:19:38
In reply to Re: Fish Oil, Saint Johns Wort Proton Pump Inhibitor, posted by Larry Hoover on January 17, 2003, at 11:07:49
First of all thanks for the response, I found it very informative. I started to post another question addressed specifically to you and then was called away at work and didn't post it until after you replied (so I didn't see your reply first). Sorry about that!
> > I am curious if anyone is taking St. Johns Wort and having good results, and if they are also taking Fish Oil? Are there any dangers of mixing these and having too much of a seretonin reaction (like seretonin syndrome)?
>
> There is no danger in taking SJW and fish oil at the same time. They are complementary, acting quite independently to stabilize and improve the mood.
>That is good to know!
>
> >I am taking a good quality SJW called Nature's Way Perika to try and get through this episode (triggered by Testosterone Replacement Therapy gone bad) in order to try and normalize my brain chemistry and I am looking to add in Fish Oil for both short and longer term preventative measures.
>
> I've taken SJW a number of times over the years, and have had good success with it. The interesting thing about Perika was that it caused sexual dysfunction in me, the only brand I've ever experienced that with. I backed off on the Perika, and took it alongside another SJW product (same total dose, just a blend of two products), and the SD side effect disappeared.
>What type of sexual dysfunction (if you don't mind me asking)? The only reason I ask, is that from the start of this my anxiety has been somewhat elavated and I have had zero interest in sex. This hasn't improved with the SJW, but obviously it hasn't gotten any worse, as there is nothing worse than not having any desire for sex! Just ask my wife ;-) I did try another brand of SJW and found that I had a couple instances of feeling completely "wired" all day and night. That's why I switched to Perika and I haven't experienced it since, maybe it was just my body getting used to having the SJW in the first place and I might have experienced it with any brand, I'm unsure on that point.
>
> >I live in Canada and was wondering if anyone knows a good, clean, fish oil product available in Canada.
>
> The fish oil sold under the Spring Valley brand at Walmart is fine. Swiss Herbal markets a variety of salmon oils, including one derived from wild-caught salmon.
>I will check around town. I just want to take something that doesn't taste like fish (I can't stand the taste of fish, that's why I don't eat any, and may be the reason I am having problems now, who knows! My Mom and I are the only people in our family to have had depression and we are also the only ones that don't eat any fish products - coincidence?). I also want to find something that doesn't contain any heavy metals, etc.
> >I am very wary of taking prescription meds (SSRI's) as I have heard so many horror stories. I have been on SJW for 2 weeks and although it's been pretty up and down, I think in general it is definitely better than when I started. Certainly the lows aren't as severe which is good!
>
> My experience with SJW is that it gently nudges me back to an acceptable mood state. Nothing sudden or drastic. Just a smooth uptick in mood. I remain reactive to my environment, but don't get the negative stuff locking in.
>Did it eventually make you feel close to 100% or maybe only 60-70% better. Do you think it is better than SSRI's if I am able to tolerate it?
> > For anyone interested in more info on St. Johns Wort there is a great site here:
> >
> > http://www.sjwinfo.org/
> >
> > Check out the discussion forum - it's very informative.
> >
> > One other thing - I also have been prescribed a Proton Pump Inhibitor for a Hiatal Hernia, and I was wondering about any problems with taking the fish oil while taking a PPI in particular, as PPI's reduce acid secretion in the stomach. Will this affect the digestion of fish oil? Is anyone else taking PPI and fish oil? Are there any problems?
>
> Fats are "digested" in the intestine, after passing out of the stomach. Bile acids and fat-digesting enzymes interact to break down triglycerides into free fatty acids, and dissolve them for uptake across the intestinal membrane.
>
> Proton-pump inhibitors do help control acid reflux, but there is a price to pay. Vitamin B-12 cannot be efficiently absorbed in the absence of stomach acid. It can take a couple of years for overt symptoms of B-12 deficiency to appear. I strongly recommend taking high-dose B-12 supplements if you're on a PPI. They're readily available as 1,000 mcg tablets, and quite inexpensive too. BTW, acid reflux can be caused by magnesium or B-12 deficiency.
>I guess in summary - it isn't a problem combining all of these together - correct? I have to go in for an Endoscopy in 2 weeks for my HH. I have heard that there might be some interactions between SJW and anesthetics (SP?), do you know of any, and if there is, is it life threatening or is it just that the sedatives are less effective? If that's the case, I don't really care as they are just sticking a tube down my throat, not cutting me open, but I obviously don't want any life threatening reactions ;-)
I already take a Calcium/Magnesium supplement and a high potency B100 Complex time released vitaimn and a good multivitamin as well (along with some garlic and Vit C (2000 mg/day)).
> > Sorry for the somewhat long rambling post, but I have a bunch of issues and I'm trying to deal with them and take the least amount of prescriptions possible, so none of the doctors have any answers to my questions as they are generally uninformed when it comes to herbs and more natural treatment options.
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
>
> I'd be happy to expand on any of these issues. You're welcome.
>
> LarLarry, Thanks again for your informative response, it's much appreciated!
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 17, 2003, at 14:52:38
In reply to Re: Fish Oil, Saint Johns Wort Proton Pump Inhibitor, posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 12:19:38
> What type of sexual dysfunction (if you don't mind me asking)? The only reason I ask, is that from the start of this my anxiety has been somewhat elavated and I have had zero interest in sex. This hasn't improved with the SJW, but obviously it hasn't gotten any worse, as there is nothing worse than not having any desire for sex! Just ask my wife ;-) I did try another brand of SJW and found that I had a couple instances of feeling completely "wired" all day and night. That's why I switched to Perika and I haven't experienced it since, maybe it was just my body getting used to having the SJW in the first place and I might have experienced it with any brand, I'm unsure on that point.
I had an inability to get an erection, precluding further progress.
> >
> > >I live in Canada and was wondering if anyone knows a good, clean, fish oil product available in Canada.
> >
> > The fish oil sold under the Spring Valley brand at Walmart is fine. Swiss Herbal markets a variety of salmon oils, including one derived from wild-caught salmon.
> >
>
> I will check around town. I just want to take something that doesn't taste like fish (I can't stand the taste of fish, that's why I don't eat any, and may be the reason I am having problems now, who knows! My Mom and I are the only people in our family to have had depression and we are also the only ones that don't eat any fish products - coincidence?). I also want to find something that doesn't contain any heavy metals, etc.The process that extracts the fish oils leaves all metals behind. All I can say is try different products until you find one that agrees with you. There are probably only three producers of fish oil in North America, supplying the bulk of all the products. That's not to say that an individual product might not be further purified, but the vast majority of brands are encapsulated by wholesale jobbers. All products that are "molecularly distilled" come from one supplier that uses that phrase on their website. "molecularly distilled" is meaningless to a chemist, and quite annoying to hear all the time, but that's what the wholesaler's website says.
> Did it eventually make you feel close to 100% or maybe only 60-70% better. Do you think it is better than SSRI's if I am able to tolerate it?
SJW is the only antidepressant *I've* ever used (personal anecdote) that made me feel entirely normal.
> I guess in summary - it isn't a problem combining all of these together - correct?
Correct.
>I have to go in for an Endoscopy in 2 weeks for my HH. I have heard that there might be some interactions between SJW and anesthetics (SP?), do you know of any, and if there is, is it life threatening or is it just that the sedatives are less effective?
Less effective. The issue is really with respect to general anaesthesia, which you do not require for an endoscopy. Just tell the anaesthetist what you're taking. I think it's a non-issue for you.
I've had the endoscopy twice, and it's painless and really quite fascinating. I could watch on my own monitor as the device was in use.
>If that's the case, I don't really care as they are just sticking a tube down my throat, not cutting me open, but I obviously don't want any life threatening reactions ;-)
Rest easy on that issue. People taking SJW might need a smidgen higher dose of general anaesthesia, so that they don't wake up too soon. You're not out for an endoscopy.
> I already take a Calcium/Magnesium supplement and a high potency B100 Complex time released vitaimn and a good multivitamin as well (along with some garlic and Vit C (2000 mg/day)).Sounds good.
> Larry, Thanks again for your informative response, it's much appreciated!
My pleasure.Lar
Posted by wild_0ne on January 17, 2003, at 15:30:20
In reply to Re: Fish Oil, Saint Johns Wort Proton Pump Inhibitor, posted by Larry Hoover on January 17, 2003, at 14:52:38
> I had an inability to get an erection, precluding further progress.
>Thankfully I don't seem to have that problem, but it does take a lot of coaxing from my better half! ;-)
>
> The process that extracts the fish oils leaves all metals behind. All I can say is try different products until you find one that agrees with you. There are probably only three producers of fish oil in North America, supplying the bulk of all the products. That's not to say that an individual product might not be further purified, but the vast majority of brands are encapsulated by wholesale jobbers. All products that are "molecularly distilled" come from one supplier that uses that phrase on their website. "molecularly distilled" is meaningless to a chemist, and quite annoying to hear all the time, but that's what the wholesaler's website says.
>OK, I just thought that everyone talks about a specific brand that you "just have to take" or else it's no good. This is good info!
>
> SJW is the only antidepressant *I've* ever used (personal anecdote) that made me feel entirely normal.
>It's been 2 weeks for me, did you go through ups and downs during the initial couple of weeks after starting? I felt "wired" for a couple of days, then not too bad, a few bad days mixed in ther and now I'm feeling really "spaced out" almost confused at times - it's very strange - but it does seem to ease off about 2 hours after each pill! I had thought I might be taking too much, but I kind of doubt that, I probably just need time to adjust, what do you think? I do think, overall, that it's helping, I'm just looking for someone that actually says they got back to 100%, again this is good to know. I guess the fact that I am having some response is a good sign, and I will give it the full 4-8 weeks to make my final judgement. Did you experience any weird symptoms like me, and if so how long did they last?
>
> Less effective. The issue is really with respect to general anaesthesia, which you do not require for an endoscopy. Just tell the anaesthetist what you're taking. I think it's a non-issue for you.
>
> I've had the endoscopy twice, and it's painless and really quite fascinating. I could watch on my own monitor as the device was in use.
>I like your attitude. I find all of this type of thing fascinating (with the exception of Depression!!!), so being able to watch would be of interest to me as well!
I like talking with you, you are a wealth of knowledge and some reassurance that I am in control of my own health, and I am doing the right things. It's a pleasure, thanks again!
This is the end of the thread.
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