Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 135865

Shown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Re: psychotherapy making you worse?

Posted by LostBoyinNCLives on January 14, 2003, at 18:27:30

> After a turbulent therapy session yesterday, things just kept getting worse.
>
> My therapist reminded me that I had spoken to my father about the fact that I was stretched as thin as I could stretch, and that they were going to have to hire people to do things they used to rely on me to do - like mowing the lawn or helping with the major cleaning or taking the occasional cab. I'd help them with the hiring, and the paying if they needed it, but I was a bit past my limit right now with being a mom, wife, and worker. Everything is behind now and I just can't take any more on.
>
> My father took it well and agreed (although he thinks all they need help with is the lawn). My mother told me last night that she is going to do the lawn herself. Of course she isn't, she can't. She hasn't even walked into the back yard for years. I interpreted her remark as "I'm going to make this difficult for you" or even at my most generous as "I'm going to fight every step of the way for my independence and I hate asking help of outsiders." This is the same woman who waited for hours at the repair shop because they couldn't locate me to bring her home. My husband ended up getting home before I did, and picking her up. I told her that sometimes she's just got to take a cab and she responded that she doesn't take cabs. That's what family is for.
>
> I can't do for them what she wants me to do, it is beyond my capabilities. But I am beginning to face how difficult they're going to make life for me anyway, even if I don't (because I can't) give in.
>
> So last night I woke up with such strong urges for self harm that I woke up my husband and asked him to tie my hands. He just got angry, and I dropped it and instead did creative visualization that my hands were anchored to the bed and couldn't take my bottle of klonopin, or cut, or drive the car to run away from home.
>
> I dread the middle of the night sometimes. It's the worst time for these things. The time when I can't distract myself with other things. Is it really so bad to have my hands tied before I go to bed? Is there another way to physically restrain myself so that these urges don't torment me in the middle of the night? I know it all seems rather extreme, but I am concerned what will happen to me as the pressure increases. The middle of the night is a vulnerable time for impulsive actions. I don't want to be hospitalized. That seems extreme. But I would like the safety of not having to fight the urges.


Hi Dinah, I dont read many of your posts as I dont visit Psychobabble all that much. However whenever I do, I notice that you seem very much engrossed in psychotherapy, talk about your therapist a lot and seem to be interested in pop psychology things a lot. But I remember you mentioning your dx a few times...it is schizoaffective disorder right? Im not coming down on you, but schizoaffective disorder is considered to be a pretty severe psychiatric diagnosis. If I am not mistaken, schizoaffective disorder is a combination of bipolar disorder with schizophrenia like symptoms. Isnt that correct?

Im not saying this to come down on you, Im truly not. However if your dx is a major psych disorder like schizoaffective or bipolar disorder, talk psychotherapy is NOT going to fix you. At best all it is is an adjunctive treatment, I see it sort as like the frosting on the cake or dessert. Meds are the meat and potatos and the veggies. For something like schizoaffective or bipolar disorder, medications are the "core" treatment. I dont see you talk much about medications on this board, mostly you seem interested in talk therapy, your therapist, etc. I honestly think you are barking up the wrong tree with your fixation on psychotherapy and pop psychology things.

Have you ever considered going "heavy duty" on your schizoaffective and trying something like an atypical anti-psychotic for your schizoaffective disorder? Or even trying bilateral or bifrontal ECT? Those are the sorts of things that can help something like schizoaffective. I dont know what meds you are on, I would assume you are on a mood stabilizer of some sort at the least. But schizoaffective disorder is a complicated disease and usually requires polypharmacy...or even hard core ECT to fix it and manage it.

Psychotherapy is only effective for the milder and "non neurological based" forms of mental illness. Such as dysthymia, personality problems, marriage and family problems, personal issues, etc. The problems of living. You dont have a problem of living it sounds like, you have a major psychiatric illness AKA a neurobiological disorder (brain problem). Psychotherapy just doesnt cut the mustard for things like manic depression, schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, severe depression, etc. Thats serious biz and requires serious medications. Or ECT.

Again, Im not coming down on you I am just suggesting some things based upon reading and observing your posts over the past year. I think you are going about this thing all wrong entirely. Ditch the fascination with things psychology...its just making you worse, thinking about yourself more. You need to think about yourself less, which means less therapy and less psychology stuff. Get on some heavy duty meds and bomb that schizoaffective disorder back to the stone age.

take care,

Eric "LostBoyinNC"

 

Re: psychotherapy making you worse? LostBoyinNCLives

Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2003, at 19:08:37

In reply to Re: psychotherapy making you worse?, posted by LostBoyinNCLives on January 14, 2003, at 18:27:30

Eric, I'm afraid you have me mistaken for someone else. That is not now, nor has it ever been my diagnosis.

Dinah

 

Re: psychotherapy making you worse?

Posted by LostBoyinNCLives on January 14, 2003, at 19:30:18

In reply to Re: psychotherapy making you worse? LostBoyinNCLives, posted by Dinah on January 14, 2003, at 19:08:37

> Eric, I'm afraid you have me mistaken for someone else. That is not now, nor has it ever been my diagnosis.
>
> Dinah


OK, my memory is kind of bad. I could have sworn I remember seeing you on here saying your dx was schizoaffective. Maybe it was your friend Judy that said that. My mistake. Anyway, whats your dx? You have to have some sort of serious mood disorder...afterall you cut yourself, have "cutting impulses" all the time, have severe suicidal impulses a lot. Sounds pretty severe.

Either way, I dont believe talk psychotherapy is going to help you very much with problems like that. Again, Im NOT coming down on you just trying to get you to confront the severity of your brain illness. Pop psychology and things of that nature is not going to stop you from cutting yourself or having those urges. Strong medications like MAOIs, high dose Effexor and ECT WILL stop it. I come on here and read about you having these cutting impulses all the time, severe suicidal ideation and never read you talking about meds, ECT and the other things that will shut that stuff down cold. But you talk about your therapist constantly.

I just gotta wonder if your therapist is jerking you around making you believe that neverending talk therapy is going to fix you, cause its not.

BTW my dx code is "296.20" or Major depression, single episode. Do you know your dx code? If I had put the emphasis in my treatment on psychotherapy, I would have been dead years ago.

There is also ECT, you can get it outpatient these days too.

take care,

Eric
>

 

Re: psychotherapy making you worse?

Posted by Jaynee on January 14, 2003, at 22:33:22

In reply to Re: psychotherapy making you worse?, posted by LostBoyinNCLives on January 14, 2003, at 19:30:18

LostBoy, is that the DSM code or ICD-9-CM? Your ICD-10 code would be far more detailed. Of course the rest of the world uses ICD-10, while the US still hasn't got on board yet.
ICD-10 code for depression starts and F32, and like I said is far more detailed than ICD-9 or ICD-9-CM.

ICD-10

Chapter V - Mental and behavioural disorders (F00-F99)
Includes: disorders of psychological development
Excludes: symptoms, signs and abnormal clinical laboratory findings, not elsewhere classified (R00-R99)
This chapter contains the following blocks:
F00-F09 Organic, including symptomatic, mental disorders
F10-F19 Mental and behavioural disorders due to psychoactive substance use
F20-F29 Schizophrenia, schizotypal and delusional disorders
F30-F39 Mood [affective] disorders
F40-F48 Neurotic, stress-related and somatoform disorders
F50-F59 Behavioural syndromes associated with physiological disturbances and physical factors
F60-F69 Disorders of adult personality and behaviour
F70-F79 Mental retardation
F80-F89 Disorders of psychological development
F90-F98 Behavioural and emotional disorders with onset usually occurring in childhood and adolescence
F99 Unspecified mental disorder
Asterick categories for this chapter are provided as follows:
F00* Dementia in Alzheimer's disease (G30.-+)
F02* Dementia in other diseases classified elsewhere

 

Re: psychotherapy making you worse?

Posted by LostBoyinNCLives on January 14, 2003, at 22:47:55

In reply to Re: psychotherapy making you worse?, posted by Jaynee on January 14, 2003, at 22:33:22

> LostBoy, is that the DSM code or ICD-9-CM? Your ICD-10 code would be far more detailed. Of course the rest of the world uses ICD-10, while the US still hasn't got on board yet.
> ICD-10 code for depression starts and F32, and like I said is far more detailed than ICD-9 or ICD-9-CM.
>
> ICD-10
>
> Chapter V - Mental and behavioural disorders (F00-F99)
> Includes: disorders of psychological development
> Excludes: symptoms, signs and abnormal clinical laboratory findings, not elsewhere classified (R00-R99)
> This chapter contains the following blocks:
> F00-F09 Organic, including symptomatic, mental disorders
> F10-F19 Mental and behavioural disorders due to psychoactive substance use
> F20-F29 Schizophrenia, schizotypal and delusional disorders
> F30-F39 Mood [affective] disorders
> F40-F48 Neurotic, stress-related and somatoform disorders
> F50-F59 Behavioural syndromes associated with physiological disturbances and physical factors
> F60-F69 Disorders of adult personality and behaviour
> F70-F79 Mental retardation
> F80-F89 Disorders of psychological development
> F90-F98 Behavioural and emotional disorders with onset usually occurring in childhood and adolescence
> F99 Unspecified mental disorder
> Asterick categories for this chapter are provided as follows:
> F00* Dementia in Alzheimer's disease (G30.-+)
> F02* Dementia in other diseases classified elsewhere
>
>
>
>

Jaynee, that is the DSM code. I never even heard of the system you are talking about. The system you are talking about sounds very similar to the DSM system. I dont believe the DSM system is very good, its too generalized and too "psychobabblish." Id prefer it if all the severe forms of mental illness were just totally formally removed from the category of psychiatric or psychological illness and recategorized as Neurological illnesses of the brain. And use neuroimaging studies to classify people. Thats a much more scientific and respectable way to diagnose people.

I have some secondary disorders like headaches, hypertension, GERD. And Ive seen things like "unemployment" listed in my psychiatric records listed as secondary "stressors." I have full copies of most of my psychiatric records and they are not like regular medical records.

I dont like being placed in some category like psychologists do and labeled like they do. Id prefer it to be treated as a medical issue, which is really what it is anyway. Im not a "case" to be managed. Im a person...a genuine, alive human being with a brain. I dislike the current system used in the USA and your system doesnt sound any better to me to be honest.

We would all be better off if this psychological relationship to severe "mental illness" was removed and if this stuff was treated like say, parkinsons disease by a Neurologist.

Eric

 

Lostboy

Posted by Jaynee on January 14, 2003, at 23:21:23

In reply to Re: psychotherapy making you worse?, posted by LostBoyinNCLives on January 14, 2003, at 22:47:55

My educational background is in health information. ICD-10, stands for INTERNATIONAL STATISTICAL CLASSIFICATION OF
DISEASES AND RELATED HEALTH PROBLEMS
TENTH REVISION. It is the coding system they use if you have been in a hospital. We would pull your chart and go through it and give you a code or two or more.

I am completely with you with regards to "Mental Illness". It is just that a Mental Illness should be treated no different than any other illness. It is neurological. But even people with "Physical Illnesses" are referred for counselling. I have a girlfriend dying of cancer, and she could tell you a 1,001 stories regarding being treated as a non-human being. One story she told me was she ended up in Emergency, the nurse took one look at her chart and said to another nurse, this one can wait, she is dying anyways. She had pericarditis, due to open heart surgery and just about died.

The reason I give this example is, I believe people with "illnesses" are prejudiced against, period. I have hemochromatosis, which is a genetic disorder, and believe me, when people find out I have a genetic disorder, they think I'm defective or contagious or something. I look normal and most days feel normal, so it does bug me. It doesn't really affect my day to day living, except I believe is the reason I end up with bouts of clinical depression, excess iron in my brain. The mental illness does get to me more though, I will admit. I had one doctor that wanted me to get tested every year to make sure I should still drive, because I had been diagnosed as clinically depressed. I freaked. Needless to say I got a new doctor.

I am with you, medication has saved my life, clinical depression is neurological.

 

Re: blocked for 32 weeks LostBoyinNCLives

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 15, 2003, at 3:29:38

In reply to Re: psychotherapy making you worse?, posted by LostBoyinNCLives on January 14, 2003, at 18:27:30

> I honestly think you are barking up the wrong tree with your fixation on psychotherapy and pop psychology things.

First, you're still supposed to be blocked. Second, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down. It was for 16 weeks last time, so it's for 32 weeks this time.

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Follow-ups regarding psychotherapy should be redirected to Psychological Babble. Otherwise, they may be deleted.

 

Dr Bob editorial makes board MORE dangerous

Posted by chad_3 on January 17, 2003, at 12:34:57

In reply to Re: blocked for 32 weeks LostBoyinNCLives, posted by Dr. Bob on January 15, 2003, at 3:29:38

Dr. Bob

YOUR BOARD CAN BE DANGEROUS AND I AM NOT SURE THE NET EFFECT OF YOUR BOARD IS GOOD FOR PEOPLE READING IT.

YOU ARE A DR. AND I SUGGEST YOU CONSIDER THE PRO'S AND CON'S OF BOTH YOUR (MOSLY INACCURATE) POSTINGS - EFFECTS ON READERS - AND YOUR OWN SELECTIVE EDITORIALS WHICH ARE SELF SERVING.

CHAD
HTTP://WWW.SOCIALFEAR.COM/


> > I honestly think you are barking up the wrong tree with your fixation on psychotherapy and pop psychology things.
>
> First, you're still supposed to be blocked. Second, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down. It was for 16 weeks last time, so it's for 32 weeks this time.
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Follow-ups regarding psychotherapy should be redirected to Psychological Babble. Otherwise, they may be deleted.


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