Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 121796

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by musil on October 1, 2002, at 10:18:33

First, everyone, let there be hope.

Second, I've been taking seroquel (100mg plus 10mg Lexapro bedtime, 50mg seroquel morning) and it has helped a lot with sleep, anxiety and psychotic symptoms (BPD and clinical depression with psychosis).

However, benzos (klonopin, diazepam) also helped
just as well with anxiety and the psychosis is induced by anxiety, but benzos were a bitch to discontinue, though perhaps safer than seroquel while taking.

It's fairly obvious from the past few years that I will be a long-term consumer of meds to corrall meaninglessness and wicked anxiety.

But I've got concerns about the safety of seroquel for the long term. Benzos seem to be safe for the long term but difficult to discontinue.

Thoughts about seroquel v. benzo for the long term would be appreciated.

My best to all.

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by Denise528 on October 1, 2002, at 11:47:45

In reply to Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by musil on October 1, 2002, at 10:18:33

Hi,

Yes I have the same concern, I've been helped a great deal by Zyprexa but have the same apprehensions as you do about taking an antipsychotic. I can't really advise you as I haven't taken any benzo but am curious as how you compare the two. Is the benzo just as effective as the Seroquel for calming you down, does the benzo bring you down at all. My psychiatrist won't prescribe me with Klonopin because he says that it can make you even more depressed, have you found this to be the case?

Denise

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by musil on October 1, 2002, at 12:07:49

In reply to Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by Denise528 on October 1, 2002, at 11:47:45

I found clonazepam, lorazepam and diazepam (klonopin, ativan and valuim, respectively) to have a marked antidepressant effect. However, I peaked at 1.5mg clonazepam per day before getting freaked out by anti-benzo rhetoric, tapered quickly, and suffered greatly during the taper.
While on benzos, I never felt "depressed" by them, but I always took them in conjunction with an ssri (celexa).

My pdoc says that benzos are incredibly safe to take (we've now got ~40 years of history) and if you're aware of a potentially difficult discontinuance, and can manage tolerance by increasing dosage, the benzos with the longer half-lives (clonazepam, diazepam) can be efficacious for the long term.

If I had allowed myself to quickly resume ssri+benzo, I don't think I would have suffered psychotic manifestations as much as I did. Clearly, I was having anxiety of the worst kind -- but it had a psychotic edge to it that seemed to be getting worse, so I tried the seroquel as an alternative to diazepam.

I seem to be advising myself at this point, probably the best kind for me. I'm sensing some side effects from Seroquel (stiffness, weight gain) but appreciate all it has done for me. It's also allowed me to get a well-rounded picture on benzo use. I might choose to reduce Seroquel in the next six months and, if necessary, augment with benzo.


> Hi,
>
> Yes I have the same concern, I've been helped a great deal by Zyprexa but have the same apprehensions as you do about taking an antipsychotic. I can't really advise you as I haven't taken any benzo but am curious as how you compare the two. Is the benzo just as effective as the Seroquel for calming you down, does the benzo bring you down at all. My psychiatrist won't prescribe me with Klonopin because he says that it can make you even more depressed, have you found this to be the case?
>
> Denise

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by octopusprime on October 1, 2002, at 20:48:02

In reply to Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by musil on October 1, 2002, at 12:07:49

How long have you been taking Seroquel for? I wish I could be some help in this.

I have been taking Seroquel for 6 months now, and at my admittedly tiny dose of 12.5 mg, I feel no pain. BUT - I did research on this - there have been NO studies of long-term use. Seroquel is new, has been on the market for less than four years. The product literature suggests short-term treatment only. Then again, the product literature suggests Seroquel is only for schizophrenics, which it isn't.

We are the human guinea pigs in this experiment. I guess only time will tell if there are long-term repercussions of taking this drug. Maybe research into other atypical anti-psychotics will shed some light on this? Who knows.

I'm hoping for an answer just as you are. I have to admit that I'm rather partial to this drug - it has treated me well.

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by musil on October 2, 2002, at 6:28:33

In reply to Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by octopusprime on October 1, 2002, at 20:48:02

It's been 4 weeks now that I've been ramping up my Seroquel dose to 100mg night, 50mg morning.
It's allowed me to refrain from diazepam when normally I would have been in obvious distress.
This morning I decided to bring my daily Seroquel down to 125mg (25mg morning) because of some conspicuous muscle stiffness in legs, neck and back.

My hope is that the Lexapro anxiolytic effect has kicked in and that I can bring down the Seroquel.

It's a dangerous game. Clearly, Seroquel is better than ending my life. But that fact is hardly clear when in the throes of a Clinical Depression with psychotic tones, so the game is
as critical as chemotherapy for cancer.

My pdoc insists that depressions can and will spontaneously remit with time, if you survive.
I still don't buy it.

> How long have you been taking Seroquel for? I wish I could be some help in this.
>
> I have been taking Seroquel for 6 months now, and at my admittedly tiny dose of 12.5 mg, I feel no pain. BUT - I did research on this - there have been NO studies of long-term use. Seroquel is new, has been on the market for less than four years. The product literature suggests short-term treatment only. Then again, the product literature suggests Seroquel is only for schizophrenics, which it isn't.
>
> We are the human guinea pigs in this experiment. I guess only time will tell if there are long-term repercussions of taking this drug. Maybe research into other atypical anti-psychotics will shed some light on this? Who knows.
>
> I'm hoping for an answer just as you are. I have to admit that I'm rather partial to this drug - it has treated me well.

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by octopusprime on October 2, 2002, at 22:58:50

In reply to Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by musil on October 2, 2002, at 6:28:33

> It's been 4 weeks now that I've been ramping up my Seroquel dose to 100mg night, 50mg morning.
> It's allowed me to refrain from diazepam when normally I would have been in obvious distress.
> This morning I decided to bring my daily Seroquel down to 125mg (25mg morning) because of some conspicuous muscle stiffness in legs, neck and back.
>
> My hope is that the Lexapro anxiolytic effect has kicked in and that I can bring down the Seroquel.
>
> It's a dangerous game. Clearly, Seroquel is better than ending my life. But that fact is hardly clear when in the throes of a Clinical Depression with psychotic tones, so the game is
> as critical as chemotherapy for cancer.
>
> My pdoc insists that depressions can and will spontaneously remit with time, if you survive.
> I still don't buy it.

Your pdoc is an optimist. Spontaneous remission is the best possible result, but I hardly think it's likely.

Seroquel's product literature says that short term treatment is 4-6 months. You are well within that window. However, the more I think about it, the more I find the muscle stiffness side effects disturbing. You should definitely be telling your doc, and likely be cutting the dose.


I just read up on this now ...
http://bipolar.about.com/library/sfx/bl-quetiapine.htm

*******************************************
Stop taking this medicine and get emergency help immediately if the following side effects occur:

Rare:

Symptoms of NMS; two or more occur together; most of these effects do not require emergency medical attention if they occur alone: Convulsions (seizures); difficult or unusually fast breathing; fast heartbeat or irregular pulse; high fever; high or low (irregular) blood pressure; increased sweating; loss of bladder control; severe muscle stiffness; unusually pale skin; unusual tiredness or weakness

Always Notify Doctor:

Less Common: Fever, chills, muscle aches, or sore throat; loss of balance control; masklike face; shuffling walk; skin rash; slowed movements; stiffness of arms or legs; swelling of feet or lower legs; trembling and shaking of hands and fingers; trouble in breathing, speaking, or swallowing
*********************************

eek! frightening. I don't know what your psychotic features are .... mine were uncontrollable racing of thoughts (primarily a problem at night). If I were you, I would ask the doc for 50mg/50mg morning/night or maybe even 25 mg / 50 mg. Your dose seems rather high. Best of luck,

op

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by musil on October 3, 2002, at 7:36:59

In reply to Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by octopusprime on October 2, 2002, at 22:58:50

Talked to pdoc last night. I've _always_ had neck stiffness and it's possible that the recent bout of wicked spasms is related to trying to drag the dog out from under the bed. But med paranoia is part of my psychosis, so I freak.

Pdoc states that EPS stiffness is usually indicated by a peculiar type of stiffness,
ratchety, not simply stiff and sore. For instance, movement of the forearm through full range of motion is interrupted by a stiff place.
Think C3PO. Think dry gears.

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by crepuscular on October 3, 2002, at 17:22:27

In reply to Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by musil on October 1, 2002, at 10:18:33

seroquel caused my neck to tweak pretty hard. sure, it would get out of wack every few years before, but with squell, it went bad for 2wk on end, and has not returned to a 100% well state yet.

i'm getting massage, stretching, and taking the stray flexeril along with advil, etc. but mostly, i'm just going to have to tough it out and hope the damage isn't permanent.

too bad, cause i loved that drug. moods were normal, i slep, AND wrote songs.

note on SSRI's: kind of an artistic deathnail imho. and they induce superficial manias. my old manias at least had some depth to them, weeks of output that had decent quality. seems like the AD-induced ones are just plain dumb, involve spending money rather than grand schemes.

and oh, how we love those grand schemes...

 

Zyprexa Vs. Seroquel

Posted by Jean Michel on November 7, 2002, at 12:15:33

In reply to Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by musil on October 1, 2002, at 10:18:33

I've been on Zyprexa for over 2 years with good results except for increased appetite and a struggle with weight gain. Recently I switched to Seroquel and can't tell if it's as good for me or if the appetite is diminishing. I do know that I have very bad congestion in nose and head. Any of this sound familiar?

 

Re: Zyprexa Vs. Seroquel

Posted by k9lover on November 8, 2002, at 7:47:56

In reply to Zyprexa Vs. Seroquel, posted by Jean Michel on November 7, 2002, at 12:15:33

I spent 2 years on zyprexa as well and recently switched to Seroquel with great success. My sleep is good (150mg at night, 50 in AM), my weight is finally starting to drop off (gained 40lb on Z) and I feel stable mood-wise. Haven't experienced any side-effects on S. My troubles often emerge when life-events interfer with my sense of self. My big test will be in the next two weeks when I hear whether or not I have a job in the future. I'm anticipating a secure ride - that's how good S seems to be working for me. Hope this helps!

 

Re: Zyprexa Vs. Seroquel

Posted by Tepiaca on November 11, 2002, at 12:36:12

In reply to Re: Zyprexa Vs. Seroquel, posted by k9lover on November 8, 2002, at 7:47:56


I spent one year on Zyprexa , and made me won a lot of weigth , so I switched to Seroquel .Its a very good drug . For me is better Seroquel ,I have no weigth gain , i can sleep very well , and I need a Lower dose than when I was taking Zyprexa

 

Re: Zyprexa Vs. Seroquel » k9lover

Posted by SLS on November 13, 2002, at 23:23:25

In reply to Re: Zyprexa Vs. Seroquel, posted by k9lover on November 8, 2002, at 7:47:56

> I spent 2 years on zyprexa as well and recently switched to Seroquel with great success.

Hi k9lover.

What are you taking Seroquel for?

Thanks


- Scott

 

Re: Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo

Posted by mightydod on November 18, 2002, at 12:36:26

In reply to Hope first, then Seroquel v. Benzo, posted by musil on October 1, 2002, at 10:18:33

I have been on Seroquel for about 6 weeks now.
I take it at night only. Started at 25mg, then
upped to 50, 75, 100, 150, and now 200. Only side
effects I have besides the obvious sedation effect,
is very dry mouth and throat. Even at 200 mg, I
have no trouble getting up in the mornings and
making it to work. I also take 10 mg Lexapro
every morning. I seem to do best on the Seroquel
for the first 2 - 3 days after the mgs have been
upped, then its like I get to use to it, and the
symptoms start coming back with a vengence. Not
sure what level my doctor will peak me at. Too
early to tell.


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