![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Guy on September 23, 2002, at 23:46:12
Does anyone else feel a constant, deep sadness about the loss of your old self (when you were feeling well and did not have to take meds)? I have been ill for over six years and now realize that true recovery is an impossible dream. I lament the loss of my energy, my creative spirit, my music, my zest for life, my joy, my life force...I was an athlete but now feel only sadness and lethargy...and envy when I see others feeling good and doing all the outdoor things I used to do. Everything has been replaced by anxiety, depression and a drugged, spaced-out feeling. I'm existing, not living.
Posted by BrittPark on September 24, 2002, at 0:11:17
In reply to Deep sadness, posted by Guy on September 23, 2002, at 23:46:12
It sounds like your treatment is not working very well. I've had reccurrent major depressions for 20 years. But I have found medications that have made me feel almost normal. I too (and many others, I'm sure) feel that loss of the pre-depression me. But drugs are slowly getting better and diagnostics are going to take off in the next 10 years (SPECT scans, I'm convinced, will revolutionize psychiatry.) I know it's almost impossible to hope when your in the middle of depression, but try to pretend that you have hope, because there is indeed hope.
Posted by Tabßitha on September 24, 2002, at 2:24:17
In reply to Deep sadness, posted by Guy on September 23, 2002, at 23:46:12
Oddly enough, I think I had the reverse of the grief you're talking about. I was always depressed from about age 5 til getting treatment in my 30s. I had a lot of grief and adjustment over losing the identity that had been formed out of depressed thinking patterns. So much of what was "me" was blown away by meds. My tastes, opinions, sense of reality all changed. Can't exactly miss the old me, because I felt so awful, but it's hard to adjust to a new medicated self, even if it's mostly an improvement.
Besides, it's just such a blow to the ego to have to take psych meds. Not just the stigma, but having to accept that you're not in control of what goes on in your own head. It's just a huge adjustment to make in your identity.
Posted by madison88 on September 24, 2002, at 6:45:37
In reply to Re: Deep sadness, posted by Tabßitha on September 24, 2002, at 2:24:17
i fully understand what it is like to miss the old self. i have always been dysthymic, but now i just feel like i am always on the edge of losing it. i used to be so outgoing. now i hide in my room and avoid people. it is so hard not to be bitter. when i am feeling better i get so angry. so i am never really fun to be around. even when i am having a good day, and there are a lot more of those now, i feel like i have a cold stone in my chest, very heavy. it won't let me laugh very easily. i feel very old.
Posted by Roo on September 24, 2002, at 8:51:34
In reply to Re: Deep sadness, posted by madison88 on September 24, 2002, at 6:45:37
Oh yeah, Guy. I know exactly what you mean. In a way,
my experience is more like Tabitha's (depressed most of
my life, and then meds changed that)...but although the meds
made me feel better, they take away some stuff too. And I grieve
for those things. The biggest thing I grieve for is I used to
be a really hilarious person...I used to be able to make people
laugh so hard and lots of people would tell me I should be
a stand up comedian. I also used to be able to laugh more and see
the hilarity in things. I feel like I've lost my sense of humor
and my ability to just lose it with laughter and I miss that a lot.
Other things too, but that's enough for now. I'm sure we're about to
get re-directed...
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 24, 2002, at 9:06:46
In reply to Deep sadness, posted by Guy on September 23, 2002, at 23:46:12
> Does anyone else feel a constant, deep sadness about the loss of your old self (when you were feeling well and did not have to take meds)?
---------------------------Could it be that some of the symptoms that are bothering you are casued by your medications? I remember when I first started taking Effexor. I went from being morose and anxious to being just sort of neutral, but very drugged feeling. I felt the same way you do about it (what a shitty tradeoff!), but after switching to different medications I got back some of my clear-headedness, and after a couple of years, I've learned to live without medications, and still not be morose and tired a lot of the time.
As a previous post mentioned, depression is like a mind control drug that keeps you from seeing things realistically. It takes away your hope for the future, demoralizing you. It saps your strength (so much so in me, that I initially thought I must have a terminal disease of some sort). If it's any comfort though, most people eventually do get better, and your despair is artifcial, in a way. The future holds promise, as well, with better understanding of the mechanisms behind depression, and more options for treatment.
As for mourning the loss of my previous self, it's something that I'm predisposed to do, but I try to avoid it. I've found that I'm much happier if I don't dwell on my past, but try to focus on enjoying the present.
Posted by jrbecker on September 24, 2002, at 11:42:11
In reply to Re: Deep sadness, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 24, 2002, at 9:06:46
Sometimes I couldn't totally agree more with you Guy. But here's the bigger picture. Number 1, we're all getting older, meaning we don't have as much energy (less hormones and the like), so we don't experience the same vibrant highs that we used to have in our youth (i'm only 25 but I definitely feel my body maturing by this point). However, looking back, I also realized that a lot of this energy was negative, meaning I think I was a lot more anxious then than I am now (even though I still suffer from depression). For this I'm thankful.
Number 2, and much more importantly, as everybody's touched on already, it sounds like your med regiment is not helping your anhedonia and causing even more numbness (most SSRIs did this to me as well). In terms of the SSRIs, I think celexa/lexpapro is best for not experiencing this detachment.
Other ideas you might want to explore if your pdoc is open-minded:
What's also worked for me is lamictal, an anticonvulsant, which I'm currently using in monotherapy (mind you, I have a dx of atypical depression, and I think it's under-rated as a therapy in the unipolar spectrum). In terms of the 'numbness' arena, it's probably been the best med I've tried that doesn't cause emotional detachment. Other possibilities in the anticonvulsant category might be neurontin (although this has less AD efficacy, but good for anxiety/sleep probs).
Another route might be the MAOIs. They cause less emotional 'numbing' than most SSRIs.
Good luck.
Posted by Peter S. on September 24, 2002, at 13:01:50
In reply to Re: Deep sadness, posted by jrbecker on September 24, 2002, at 11:42:11
Guy,
I know how you feel. I'm 41 and I've been depressed since I was 4. After 6 years of struggling with every single med in the book including MAOIs, naltrexone, t3, t4, zyprexa, all the SSRIs, tricylics, wellbutrin, and on and on, I've found that Lamictal + low dose prozac and Neurontin seem to be working. The jury's still out but I feel very encouraged.
However there is a strong feeling of waking up from a dream and realizing that a lot of my life has gone by and I've been unable to appreciate it. I've been in a fog which has effected my relationships, my career path, and every aspect of my life. I find myself alternately extremely angry and relieved. I now have to get on with my life and make up for lost time.
What I've learned is that you should never give up, though I have been tempted many times. I have thought of suicide as my only option. If my current regimen fades away, I will continue to fight because I know there is another reality besides depression.
> Sometimes I couldn't totally agree more with you Guy. But here's the bigger picture. Number 1, we're all getting older, meaning we don't have as much energy (less hormones and the like), so we don't experience the same vibrant highs that we used to have in our youth (i'm only 25 but I definitely feel my body maturing by this point). However, looking back, I also realized that a lot of this energy was negative, meaning I think I was a lot more anxious then than I am now (even though I still suffer from depression). For this I'm thankful.
>
> Number 2, and much more importantly, as everybody's touched on already, it sounds like your med regiment is not helping your anhedonia and causing even more numbness (most SSRIs did this to me as well). In terms of the SSRIs, I think celexa/lexpapro is best for not experiencing this detachment.
>
> Other ideas you might want to explore if your pdoc is open-minded:
>
> What's also worked for me is lamictal, an anticonvulsant, which I'm currently using in monotherapy (mind you, I have a dx of atypical depression, and I think it's under-rated as a therapy in the unipolar spectrum). In terms of the 'numbness' arena, it's probably been the best med I've tried that doesn't cause emotional detachment. Other possibilities in the anticonvulsant category might be neurontin (although this has less AD efficacy, but good for anxiety/sleep probs).
>
> Another route might be the MAOIs. They cause less emotional 'numbing' than most SSRIs.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
Posted by colin wallace on September 25, 2002, at 3:37:38
In reply to Re: Deep sadness- Lamictal ditto, posted by Peter S. on September 24, 2002, at 13:01:50
>>However there is a strong feeling of waking up from a dream and realizing that a lot of my life has gone by and I've been unable to appreciate it. I've been in a fog which has effected my relationships, my career path, and every aspect of my life. I find myself alternately extremely angry and relieved. I now have to get on with my life and make up for lost time.
Pete,
I found myself feeling exactly the same way yesterday evening- the feeling of normality was so overwhelming, it was a real assault on the senses- I was just gazing at scenery, trees etc., familiar sights seen without looking through the miserable stew of depression.A bit like seeing 3 dimensional images for the first time.
I've lost 20 years too, but what's left is beginning to interest me at least!
All the best,Col.
Posted by cybercafe on September 25, 2002, at 16:16:35
In reply to Re: Deep sadness- Lamictal ditto, posted by Peter S. on September 24, 2002, at 13:01:50
> Guy,
>
> I know how you feel. I'm 41 and I've been depressed since I was 4. After 6 years of struggling with every single med in the book including MAOIs, naltrexone, t3, t4, zyprexa, all the SSRIs, tricylics, wellbutrin, and on and on, I've found that Lamictal + low dose prozac and Neurontin seem to be working. The jury's still out but I feel very encouraged.might i ask your diagnosis? and characteristics of your depression? i.e. bipolar, anxious, agitated, mood reactive, rejection sensitive, hypersomnia or insomnia, hyperphagia/weight gain or not eating, etc etc etc
Posted by Peter S. on September 25, 2002, at 18:39:18
In reply to Re: Deep sadness- Lamictal ditto, posted by cybercafe on September 25, 2002, at 16:16:35
You know, I'm not totally sure of my diagnosis- probably the closest thing would be atypical chronic depression including rejection sensitivity, hypersomnia. Some cycling- good mood especially in response to lack of sleep but never had a manic episode. No weight problems. Have had hypomanic episodes in response to anti-depressants, so I think there may be some bipolarity (3 or 4?) going on somewhere.
> might i ask your diagnosis? and characteristics of your depression? i.e. bipolar, anxious, agitated, mood reactive, rejection sensitive, hypersomnia or insomnia,
Posted by McPac on September 25, 2002, at 19:13:47
In reply to Re: Deep sadness- Lamictal ditto, posted by cybercafe on September 25, 2002, at 16:16:35
I'd have to say that the terrible, uncontrollable agitation is one of the worst feelings...when you can't stand even being in your own skin, so to speak...........
I believe that is a temporal lobe issue for many people........but I wonder what is responsible for the rejection sensitivity?
Posted by Guy on September 25, 2002, at 21:38:59
In reply to Re: Deep sadness- Lamictal ditto, posted by McPac on September 25, 2002, at 19:13:47
I'm not sure, but I think the Celexa I've been taking for the past six days is starting to help...it's as if the skies are starting to clear. This is the first time any AD has ever helped. Could it be because I was born in Denmark and Celexa is a Danish med?
Posted by jrbecker on September 26, 2002, at 8:00:32
In reply to Re: Deep sadness- Lamictal ditto, posted by McPac on September 25, 2002, at 19:13:47
!
Posted by Roman on September 26, 2002, at 11:34:11
In reply to Celexa may be helping , posted by Guy on September 25, 2002, at 21:38:59
> I'm not sure, but I think the Celexa I've been taking for the past six days is starting to help...it's as if the skies are starting to clear. This is the first time any AD has ever helped. Could it be because I was born in Denmark and Celexa is a Danish med?
That's funny, I had the same though about being of European descent. I guess it's not completely out of the question. Also, I get the sense that men have less trouble with Celexa than women--I wonder if there's data to support that hypothesis.
Posted by Kat26 on September 26, 2002, at 13:41:36
In reply to Deep sadness, posted by Guy on September 23, 2002, at 23:46:12
Guy, please don't think recovery is impossible.
Can i relate to that sadness over the loss of the "old self"?? OH MAN HOW I CAN RELATE!!! I used to write songs and poems about just that and they almost made me cry. Like: (one of my songs)
Where have the blue skies gone and the warm winds
I have seen and felt them today but they're just visiting
From another world
And who stole my dreams?Where have the postcards gone and the magical sunsets?
They are only memories,
Or am I only memory, and what's around me is real
And who stole my dreams...Where has the water gone, the waves playing around my feet?
Summers from long ago, midafternoon heat
And who stole my childhood?
And who stole my peace?Where have my dreams gone?....
See, and I thought, after years of first anorexia and then depression and OCD, that I was stuck... especially in the OCD. Fears and worries and not being able to enjoy things anymore. Just existing in an own dark world, and I used to be so full of life, of enthusiasm... BUT MY MESSAGE IS: Don't believe that it can't get better.It may be a med that helps, it may be something else, it may be just a new dream. Somehow there is always hope!!!
And now that I left the darkness behind, I consider myself LUCKY that I had all those experiences... because the joy after it started getting better again was so great!!!
PLEASE don't be so sad.
Kathrin
Posted by Peter S. on September 26, 2002, at 14:41:47
In reply to Re: Deep sadness GUY, posted by Kat26 on September 26, 2002, at 13:41:36
xxx
> Guy, please don't think recovery is impossible.
>
> Can i relate to that sadness over the loss of the "old self"?? OH MAN HOW I CAN RELATE!!! I used to write songs and poems about just that and they almost made me cry. Like: (one of my songs)
>
> Where have the blue skies gone and the warm winds
> I have seen and felt them today but they're just visiting
> From another world
> And who stole my dreams?
>
> Where have the postcards gone and the magical sunsets?
> They are only memories,
> Or am I only memory, and what's around me is real
> And who stole my dreams...
>
> Where has the water gone, the waves playing around my feet?
> Summers from long ago, midafternoon heat
> And who stole my childhood?
> And who stole my peace?
>
> Where have my dreams gone?....
>
>
> See, and I thought, after years of first anorexia and then depression and OCD, that I was stuck... especially in the OCD. Fears and worries and not being able to enjoy things anymore. Just existing in an own dark world, and I used to be so full of life, of enthusiasm... BUT MY MESSAGE IS: Don't believe that it can't get better.
>
> It may be a med that helps, it may be something else, it may be just a new dream. Somehow there is always hope!!!
>
> And now that I left the darkness behind, I consider myself LUCKY that I had all those experiences... because the joy after it started getting better again was so great!!!
>
> PLEASE don't be so sad.
>
> Kathrin
Posted by Mr. SadPuppyDog on September 27, 2002, at 12:20:39
In reply to Deep sadness, posted by Guy on September 23, 2002, at 23:46:12
> Does anyone else feel a constant, deep sadness about the loss of your old self (when you were feeling well and did not have to take meds)? I have been ill for over six years and now realize that true recovery is an impossible dream. I lament the loss of my energy, my creative spirit, my music, my zest for life, my joy, my life force...I was an athlete but now feel only sadness and lethargy...and envy when I see others feeling good and doing all the outdoor things I used to do. Everything has been replaced by anxiety, depression and a drugged, spaced-out feeling. I'm existing, not living.
I feel the same way as you sometimes. Even though Ive been depressed so long now Ive basically given up any real hope of being truly "normal" again. My goal is to attain my pre-depression personality along with getting normal sleep, normal sex drive, normal cognition and energy levels. I divide my life into "pre-clinical depression" and "post-clinical depression." Depression has really messed me up.I like you was very active before depression, very physically oriented and outdoorsy. Depression has messed that all up. I miss it. I also miss my old personality, which is gone. One psychologist type told me one time I was in "grieving" because of the loss of my old (normal) self after severe depression hit. Id say thats close to how I feel. Grieving. Wish I could have what I used to have back.
All I can say to you is if you havent been depressed too many years, you might want to seriously consider ECT. It might be able to restore you back to normal. But the longer you wait, the more years that go by, the lesser the chance that ECT results will be full remission and last. Six years is a long time to be clinically depressed. Im not sure what the results from ECT would be if youve been clinically depressed that long. The longer youve been clinically depressed, the stronger the brain changes become...they "set in" for good basically. Thats why its so important to kick clinical depression in the ass EARLY on, when it first hits.
Mr. Sad PuppyDog
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.