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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lorelai on August 14, 2002, at 22:57:11
Saw my pdoc today (I'm bipolar) and she'd put me on Wellbutrin a couple of weeks ago. I'm happy with the weight loss and the side effects have begun to subside (the worst was tinnitus for a few days, but it passed). Okay, so now she wants me to consider going on Neurontin in addition to the Wellbutrin. She says that my manic phases have been the most hazardous (during mania I make major life changing decisions and immediately act on them. Needless to say, I've screwed up a lot during mania)...so she wants me back on something to keep the manic phases at bay. I've been doing okay lately. No mania, but it always shows up sooner or later. I'm in a down phase right now. Anyway, I'm concerned about the effects of using Wellbutrin and Neurontin simultaneously and would be interested to hear if any of you have taken these meds together. Any horrible Neurontin side effects? Also, I'm wondering if Neurontin would mess with my weight loss? I'm enjoying the weight loss as I'd been on Depakote before and had gained on it. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!
Posted by Ritch on August 14, 2002, at 23:37:19
In reply to Wellbutrin and Neurontin? , posted by Lorelai on August 14, 2002, at 22:57:11
> Saw my pdoc today (I'm bipolar) and she'd put me on Wellbutrin a couple of weeks ago. I'm happy with the weight loss and the side effects have begun to subside (the worst was tinnitus for a few days, but it passed). Okay, so now she wants me to consider going on Neurontin in addition to the Wellbutrin. She says that my manic phases have been the most hazardous (during mania I make major life changing decisions and immediately act on them. Needless to say, I've screwed up a lot during mania)...so she wants me back on something to keep the manic phases at bay. I've been doing okay lately. No mania, but it always shows up sooner or later. I'm in a down phase right now. Anyway, I'm concerned about the effects of using Wellbutrin and Neurontin simultaneously and would be interested to hear if any of you have taken these meds together. Any horrible Neurontin side effects? Also, I'm wondering if Neurontin would mess with my weight loss? I'm enjoying the weight loss as I'd been on Depakote before and had gained on it. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!
Never got any weight gain from Neurontin (at any dosage).
Mitch
Posted by Mr. Scott on August 15, 2002, at 4:13:06
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin? » Lorelai, posted by Ritch on August 14, 2002, at 23:37:19
Neurontin is lovely...very soothing to the brain. Just be sure to take it slow...Ask for 100mg capsules instead of the 300mg that you'll probably get. It can be sedating and needs to be administered 3x daily, so start low and go slow.
I take it your manias are mild?
Scott
Posted by Lorelai on August 15, 2002, at 8:45:19
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin?, posted by Mr. Scott on August 15, 2002, at 4:13:06
> Neurontin is lovely...very soothing to the brain. Just be sure to take it slow...Ask for 100mg capsules instead of the 300mg that you'll probably get. It can be sedating and needs to be administered 3x daily, so start low and go slow.
>
> I take it your manias are mild?
>
> Scott**Ritch (Mitch?) and Scott,
Thank you for your comments. My pdoc gave me a list of possible side effects and though I know everyone's brain chemistry is different, I worry about things like mixing meds. I've never had success mixing medications in the past and am leery of it. No, Scott, my manic episodes aren't always mild. Wish they were. But I've refused to go the Depakote route again and have refused Lithium. I find myself going through a cycle of denying I'm bipolar and end up quitting my meds when I feel okay. Then of course I'm a ticking time bomb. My pdoc's probably growing frustrated, trying to find something that'll keep me on an even keel (something I won't say "No" to), plus I'm supposed to start Dialectical Behavioral Therapy soon. Still trying to decide if I want to commit to DBT (the program takes a year). Not sure if this approach will do me any good, but who knows? Thanks again. Hope I have as good an experience with Neurontin as you seem to've had.
Posted by utopizen on August 15, 2002, at 20:36:31
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin?, posted by Lorelai on August 15, 2002, at 8:45:19
I happen to be on wellbutrin and neurontin...
but anyone else get their speech babbled on neurontin? Sounds like I'm a bit slurred, hope it's not too bad- I'm going to record myself soon, and I'll try to lower the dose.
Posted by MomO3 on August 18, 2002, at 0:41:25
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin?, posted by utopizen on August 15, 2002, at 20:36:31
I started with the Neurontin first, then a few months later added wellbutrin. I didn't have a favorable reaction to the wellbutrin (wild irritability) so I stopped it pretty quickly... I don't think it was the combo...but who knows?
Neurontin mellows me out, I take most at night and less during the day or I get a little loopy - and I did immediately lose the ability to spell. But other than that, I am pretty content with the neurontin.
The down side is that it is not terribly powerful in mood stabilization. The pdoc tried to switch me off the neurontin to trileptal last month- but I read about it and called him back the next day and told him I wouldn't take the trileptal but rather stay on the neurontin and dump the wellbutrin in favor of effexor. I am feeling much better now.
Unfortunately, I do see depakote or lithium or something more along those lines looming in my not so distant future...I am trying to lose the weight before I start so that when I gain the weight back my clothes will fit. I am a rapid cycler or mixed-states and the neurontin doesn't help much with that.
Posted by Lorelai on August 18, 2002, at 8:53:01
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin?, posted by MomO3 on August 18, 2002, at 0:41:25
> I started with the Neurontin first, then a few months later added wellbutrin. I didn't have a favorable reaction to the wellbutrin (wild irritability) so I stopped it pretty quickly... I don't think it was the combo...but who knows?
>
> Neurontin mellows me out, I take most at night and less during the day or I get a little loopy - and I did immediately lose the ability to spell. But other than that, I am pretty content with the neurontin.
>
> The down side is that it is not terribly powerful in mood stabilization. The pdoc tried to switch me off the neurontin to trileptal last month- but I read about it and called him back the next day and told him I wouldn't take the trileptal but rather stay on the neurontin and dump the wellbutrin in favor of effexor. I am feeling much better now.
>
> Unfortunately, I do see depakote or lithium or something more along those lines looming in my not so distant future...I am trying to lose the weight before I start so that when I gain the weight back my clothes will fit. I am a rapid cycler or mixed-states and the neurontin doesn't help much with that.**I'm enjoying the Wellbutrin mainly for the weight loss I'm experiencing and I do seem more upbeat, for the most part. I find myself getting irritable when I space my doses too far apart (or really sleepy--I nearly fell asleep while grocery shopping yesterday). I hate to admit it, but if Neurontin causes me to stop losing weight (or causes me to gain, like the Depakote did) I won't continue to take it. I've had enough of this weight gain and pdocs telling me it's not a "significant reason not to take meds." To me, it IS significant. I get depressed when I gain weight--meds or no meds.
I appreciate your comments and hope the best for you. Wish there were some way to just NOT be on medication at all. Guess that's really not an option (I've tried this a few times and my friends and family haven't enjoyed the results, so back to square one and pdocs and meds I go). *sigh* I suppose I'll try the Wellbutrin/Neurontin combo and just go from there.
Best,
Lorelai
Posted by Lorelai on August 18, 2002, at 8:59:16
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin?, posted by MomO3 on August 18, 2002, at 0:41:25
> I started with the Neurontin first, then a few months later added wellbutrin. I didn't have a favorable reaction to the wellbutrin (wild irritability) so I stopped it pretty quickly... I don't think it was the combo...but who knows?
>
> Neurontin mellows me out, I take most at night and less during the day or I get a little loopy - and I did immediately lose the ability to spell. But other than that, I am pretty content with the neurontin.
>
> The down side is that it is not terribly powerful in mood stabilization. The pdoc tried to switch me off the neurontin to trileptal last month- but I read about it and called him back the next day and told him I wouldn't take the trileptal but rather stay on the neurontin and dump the wellbutrin in favor of effexor. I am feeling much better now.
>
> Unfortunately, I do see depakote or lithium or something more along those lines looming in my not so distant future...I am trying to lose the weight before I start so that when I gain the weight back my clothes will fit. I am a rapid cycler or mixed-states and the neurontin doesn't help much with that.**Wait a minute--you lost your ability to spell? Is this something that goes away??? I'm a writer and can't afford to take something that will mess with my ability to write! Argh!**
Posted by Lorelai on August 18, 2002, at 9:03:02
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin?, posted by utopizen on August 15, 2002, at 20:36:31
> I happen to be on wellbutrin and neurontin...
>
> but anyone else get their speech babbled on neurontin? Sounds like I'm a bit slurred, hope it's not too bad- I'm going to record myself soon, and I'll try to lower the dose.***I'll be interested to find out how it goes with your slurred speech. Did you get the chance to record yourself? Is it bad? Has it gotten worse or better? I read in the side effects that slurred speech is a possibility. Hope lowering the dose works for you!**
Posted by cybercafe on August 18, 2002, at 11:07:20
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin? » MomO3, posted by Lorelai on August 18, 2002, at 8:53:01
> **I'm enjoying the Wellbutrin mainly for the weight loss I'm experiencing and I do seem more upbeat, for the most part. I find myself getting irritable when I space my doses too far apart (or really sleepy--I nearly fell asleep while grocery shopping yesterday). I hate to admit it, but if Neurontin causes me to stop losing weight (or causes me to gain, like the Depakote did) I won't continue to take it. I've had enough of this weight gain and pdocs telling me it's not a "significant reason not to take meds." To me, it IS significant. I get depressed when I gain weight--meds or no meds.
if you makes you feel any better i am on an activating antidepressant too (parnate) and i have lost weight big time... i am talking 6'1" between 148 and 155 pounds here...
when i get really hypomanic i down gabapentin like crazy and it definately doesn't make me hungry .. if it slows down my metabolism, i havn't noticedi'm not saying you will have the same effect...
i'm just hoping that if you have decided to take it you can feel good about it...
Posted by utopizen on August 18, 2002, at 20:44:04
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin? » utopizen, posted by Lorelai on August 18, 2002, at 9:03:02
My speech was fine on the highest dose I ever take, 1600 mg at once.
I suppose the day I questioned my speech was tied to fatigue, and the neurontin may have simply exaggerated pre-existing fatigue.
thanks for your concern. I have had delayed articulation as a child, so I do tend to slur if I get drunk or use certain meds. Pretty much all my speech is based on learned patterns that I was taught to compensate for deficiencies, so I suppose it requires much brain function to use these learned compensations.
Posted by Lorelai on August 19, 2002, at 8:20:23
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin?, posted by cybercafe on August 18, 2002, at 11:07:20
>
> if you makes you feel any better i am on an activating antidepressant too (parnate) and i have lost weight big time... i am talking 6'1" between 148 and 155 pounds here...
> when i get really hypomanic i down gabapentin like crazy and it definately doesn't make me hungry .. if it slows down my metabolism, i havn't noticed
>
> i'm not saying you will have the same effect...
> i'm just hoping that if you have decided to take it you can feel good about it...**I have an appointment with my pdoc this week and guess I'll give Neurontin a shot. Maybe I'll be one of the fortunate who doesn't notice any adverse side effects (also going to step up my exercise and hope for the best). Thanks for commenting! This gives me hope.**
Posted by Lorelai on August 19, 2002, at 8:45:15
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin? lorelai, posted by utopizen on August 18, 2002, at 20:44:04
> My speech was fine on the highest dose I ever take, 1600 mg at once.
>
> I suppose the day I questioned my speech was tied to fatigue, and the neurontin may have simply exaggerated pre-existing fatigue.
>
> thanks for your concern. I have had delayed articulation as a child, so I do tend to slur if I get drunk or use certain meds. Pretty much all my speech is based on learned patterns that I was taught to compensate for deficiencies, so I suppose it requires much brain function to use these learned compensations.
>**I'm glad to hear it's not an ongoing type of problem. Sort of reminds me of my son's eyes. He had muscle surgery on both eyes 5 years ago, at age 4, and when he grows tired one eye tends to slightly cross. The eye specialist says it's normal. My son has autism and though he's grown out of several behaviors he had when younger, they sometimes erupt when he's sleepy. It's kind of strange, how the mind and body react when tired.
All the Best,
Lorelai **
Posted by MomO3 on August 20, 2002, at 21:58:04
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin and Neurontin? » MomO3, posted by Lorelai on August 18, 2002, at 8:59:16
> **Wait a minute--you lost your ability to spell? Is this something that goes away??? I'm a writer and can't afford to take something that will mess with my ability to write! Argh!**
>
I have always had an exacting eye for spelling. I never have to spell check anything because I can look at a word and know that it's spelled wrong. It's also the first thing I would notice on anyone else's writing or e-maiils is if there were mis-spellings.Within the first week on neurontin, I found myself looking at words and not knowing if they were spelled correctly. I also found myself using the wrong words in my emails...
ie: "I was to tired" instead of "TOO tired"
there was one that I did that really bothered me... were/wear or hear/here or there/their or something along those lines -but I can't remember the specifics.
I don't know whether everyone has this problem or if it is just me - I also don't know if it goes away.. I am still taking neurontin and I am getting into the habit of double checking - but choosing the wrong hominym (or whatever they're called) is distressing because it just doesn't catch my eye right away.
Posted by Ritch on August 21, 2002, at 8:59:44
In reply to Re: Ability to spell..., posted by MomO3 on August 20, 2002, at 21:58:04
> > **Wait a minute--you lost your ability to spell? Is this something that goes away??? I'm a writer and can't afford to take something that will mess with my ability to write! Argh!**
> >
>
>
> I have always had an exacting eye for spelling. I never have to spell check anything because I can look at a word and know that it's spelled wrong. It's also the first thing I would notice on anyone else's writing or e-maiils is if there were mis-spellings.
>
> Within the first week on neurontin, I found myself looking at words and not knowing if they were spelled correctly. I also found myself using the wrong words in my emails...
>
> ie: "I was to tired" instead of "TOO tired"
>
> there was one that I did that really bothered me... were/wear or hear/here or there/their or something along those lines -but I can't remember the specifics.
>
> I don't know whether everyone has this problem or if it is just me - I also don't know if it goes away.. I am still taking neurontin and I am getting into the habit of double checking - but choosing the wrong hominym (or whatever they're called) is distressing because it just doesn't catch my eye right away.
>
Hi,Neurontin is fairly sedative. I had that problem somewhat when I started Depakote again a few months ago. It has faded some. Any medication that has a sedative effect can whack my writing ability, antihistamines especially. Neurontin didn't mess it up too bad until I got over 900mg/day.
Mitch
Posted by Lorelai on August 21, 2002, at 12:45:53
In reply to Wellbutrin and Neurontin? , posted by Lorelai on August 14, 2002, at 22:57:11
Thanks to all of you who responded to this post. I suppose, like all meds, one just has to try it and see. I'm still leery, but my pdoc wants me on something besides just Wellbutrin, so I'll see how the Wellbutrin/Neurontin combo goes and keep my fingers crossed that my system can handle it with limited side effects--zero would be good, but I'm not that naive (:
Best,
Lorelai
Posted by Chris A. on August 22, 2002, at 21:20:08
In reply to Re: Ability to spell..., posted by MomO3 on August 20, 2002, at 21:58:04
I also wonder if the decreased ability to spell and use proper grammar is related to the use of any of the anticonvulsants. I attributed my deficits to either ECT or the illness. I used to write, but have trouble writing a cognizant sentence now. Do you guys (gals) have trouble with name face recognition too? I take Lamictal, Ambien and small doses of Klonopin. Neuropsych testing indicated deficits in visual processing and organization. I have often wondered if getting off of the meds would help with the cognitive difficulties. When I read my writing of twelve years ago compared to today it is scary. I often entertain the idea of going back to work, but am afraid I won't be able to cut it cognitively. In short, I feel dumb and frustrated. There is a sense of knowing information, but being unable to communicate it or organize it effectively.
Enough rambling, but rambling is as good as it gets anymore.Chris A.
> > **Wait a minute--you lost your ability to spell? Is this something that goes away??? I'm a writer and can't afford to take something that will mess with my ability to write! Argh!**
> >
>
>
> I have always had an exacting eye for spelling. I never have to spell check anything because I can look at a word and know that it's spelled wrong. It's also the first thing I would notice on anyone else's writing or e-maiils is if there were mis-spellings.
>
> Within the first week on neurontin, I found myself looking at words and not knowing if they were spelled correctly. I also found myself using the wrong words in my emails...
>
> ie: "I was to tired" instead of "TOO tired"
>
> there was one that I did that really bothered me... were/wear or hear/here or there/their or something along those lines -but I can't remember the specifics.
>
> I don't know whether everyone has this problem or if it is just me - I also don't know if it goes away.. I am still taking neurontin and I am getting into the habit of double checking - but choosing the wrong hominym (or whatever they're called) is distressing because it just doesn't catch my eye right away.
>
Posted by noelle on August 22, 2002, at 23:49:07
In reply to Re: Ability to spell and all anticonvulsants, posted by Chris A. on August 22, 2002, at 21:20:08
I just posted a new message about this combo and then I saw this string, I am having a yucky reaction to the combo, I had been taking Neurontin for a month, and then I started taking wellbutrin because of all the reason you all are discussing I felt a bit slower with Neurontin but definetly happier but with slight ADD its hard to function. I stopped the wellbutrin after two days yesterday and I still feel wierd, akethesia type feelings, anxiety etc.
Posted by Ritch on August 23, 2002, at 8:47:49
In reply to Re: Ability to spell and all anticonvulsants, posted by Chris A. on August 22, 2002, at 21:20:08
Chris,
When I went back on low-dose Depakote and off of low-dose Neurontin I noticed problems with spelling, but it seems like I have adjusted to it over the last several weeks. I always had good face recognition despite all sorts of horrid med combos, it was the verbal side that inevitably gets whacked. You mentioned something about going back to school. That's a great idea-and something I plan on trying soon (for many reasons). Some of the people I work with have went back to school (for continuing ed.), and they aren't on any meds, and they are shocked about how difficult they find things (they attributed it to age). But, after they get to going in a class for a while they start sharpening back up and you can tell the difference at work in their speech.
> I also wonder if the decreased ability to spell and use proper grammar is related to the use of any of the anticonvulsants. I attributed my deficits to either ECT or the illness. I used to write, but have trouble writing a cognizant sentence now. Do you guys (gals) have trouble with name face recognition too? I take Lamictal, Ambien and small doses of Klonopin. Neuropsych testing indicated deficits in visual processing and organization. I have often wondered if getting off of the meds would help with the cognitive difficulties. When I read my writing of twelve years ago compared to today it is scary. I often entertain the idea of going back to work, but am afraid I won't be able to cut it cognitively. In short, I feel dumb and frustrated. There is a sense of knowing information, but being unable to communicate it or organize it effectively.
> Enough rambling, but rambling is as good as it gets anymore.
>
> Chris A.
>
> > > **Wait a minute--you lost your ability to spell? Is this something that goes away??? I'm a writer and can't afford to take something that will mess with my ability to write! Argh!**
> > >
> >
> >
> > I have always had an exacting eye for spelling. I never have to spell check anything because I can look at a word and know that it's spelled wrong. It's also the first thing I would notice on anyone else's writing or e-maiils is if there were mis-spellings.
> >
> > Within the first week on neurontin, I found myself looking at words and not knowing if they were spelled correctly. I also found myself using the wrong words in my emails...
> >
> > ie: "I was to tired" instead of "TOO tired"
> >
> > there was one that I did that really bothered me... were/wear or hear/here or there/their or something along those lines -but I can't remember the specifics.
> >
> > I don't know whether everyone has this problem or if it is just me - I also don't know if it goes away.. I am still taking neurontin and I am getting into the habit of double checking - but choosing the wrong hominym (or whatever they're called) is distressing because it just doesn't catch my eye right away.
> >
>
>
Posted by Randal on August 23, 2002, at 21:18:41
In reply to Re: Ability to spell..., posted by MomO3 on August 20, 2002, at 21:58:04
That's interesting...I've occasionally noticed the same their/there to/too/two (and sometimes even now/know) spelling problem over the last few months, while on Lamictal 500 mg. I didn't attribute it to the medication though, but it sounds like that's a strong possibility. I just started on Neurontin a week ago--hopefully that won't make things worse!
The problem with the their/there/they're type of error is that spellcheck doesn't catch it!!
Randal
> I have always had an exacting eye for spelling. I never have to spell check anything because I can look at a word and know that it's spelled wrong. It's also the first thing I would notice on anyone else's writing or e-maiils is if there were mis-spellings.
>
> Within the first week on neurontin, I found myself looking at words and not knowing if they were spelled correctly. I also found myself using the wrong words in my emails...
>
> ie: "I was to tired" instead of "TOO tired"
>
> there was one that I did that really bothered me... were/wear or hear/here or there/their or something along those lines -but I can't remember the specifics.
>
> I don't know whether everyone has this problem or if it is just me - I also don't know if it goes away.. I am still taking neurontin and I am getting into the habit of double checking - but choosing the wrong hominym (or whatever they're called) is distressing because it just doesn't catch my eye right away.
>
Posted by IsoM on August 24, 2002, at 1:30:58
In reply to Re: Ability to spell... » MomO3, posted by Randal on August 23, 2002, at 21:18:41
Oh c'mon, Randal. That's what grammar check is for - to catch their, there, they're differences. Thank goodness, it's not something I need to worry about. My weakness is starting to explain something to someone & completely losing my point I was even trying to make. I just peter out with others looking at me perplexed.
Posted by may-b on August 24, 2002, at 10:09:54
In reply to Re: Spelling and Grammar » Randal, posted by IsoM on August 24, 2002, at 1:30:58
> ... My weakness is starting to explain something to someone & completely losing my point I was even trying to make. I just peter out with others looking at me perplexed.
Hi IsoM
What do you attribute your 'weakness' to?I have experienced this losing of the point as well and it scares me.
Thanks,
may-b
Posted by may-b on August 24, 2002, at 10:29:49
In reply to Re: Ability to spell and all anticonvulsants, posted by Chris A. on August 22, 2002, at 21:20:08
> ... Do you guys (gals) have trouble with name face recognition too?
Hi Chris
I noticed this inability to recognise faces a few years ago -- a great loss for someone who thinks and functions visually (was an artist who used to paint portraits! Faces were very important to my way of negotiating in the world...) Now I am often in the situation of trying to place a person who seems a stranger to me. I have offended many with my clued out-ness.
I have taken SSRI's and TCA's in the past, (no anticonvulsants, antipsychotics or neuroleptics). Except for the last 10 days trialing dexedrine, I have been drug free for over a year now. I wish I could hope for cognitive improvement if we return to school, (as Mitch suggests in his post) but I have been teaching for years at post-secondary level and the problem continues...maybe you have to be a student? <g>
best wishes,
may-b
Posted by IsoM on August 25, 2002, at 1:18:28
In reply to Re: Spelling and Grammar » IsoM, posted by may-b on August 24, 2002, at 10:09:54
Petering out in mid-explanation of something I do is just me - nothing that I attribute it to. I've always been like that. I think it may be due to my ADHD perhaps. I will become very enthusiastic about explaining something, but because I'm so enthusiastic about many, many things, I can veer off subject easily. Next thing I know, I'm not sure what my point was. If I can remember to be aware of it, I try to make a point quickly, sticking to only what's necessary.
Mind you, some days when I'm fatigued or have a headache, no amount of effort will keep me bright & focused. Myself, I don't worry overly about it. If I'm really intent on making a point about something, it doesn't slep my mind then.
Posted by McPac on August 25, 2002, at 8:26:47
In reply to Re: Ability to spell... » MomO3, posted by Ritch on August 21, 2002, at 8:59:44
the en
This is the end of the thread.
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