Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 95334

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MAOI diet - question

Posted by Margit on February 24, 2002, at 17:00:17

I have read through many print-outs on MAOI diets, but have the following question. It doesn't say anything about cereals - so cereals are considered safe? When I looked on my box, however, it says that it contains 3mg protein. I looked at several other items, such as noodles, cream of wheat, and others, and all contain some amount of protein. Are they safe to eat?? Thanks for any response.

 

Re: MAOI diet - question

Posted by dennison on February 24, 2002, at 22:44:15

In reply to MAOI diet - question, posted by Margit on February 24, 2002, at 17:00:17

> I have read through many print-outs on MAOI diets, but have the following question. It doesn't say anything about cereals - so cereals are considered safe? When I looked on my box, however, it says that it contains 3mg protein. I looked at several other items, such as noodles, cream of wheat, and others, and all contain some amount of protein. Are they safe to eat?? Thanks for any response.

Hi Margit!!! It's perfectly ok to eat protein with maoi's. Tyramine is the culprit which is to be avoided. Aged cheeses byfar are the biggest risk, tyramine is produced by the bacteriological conversion of tyrosine in the aging process. Pasteurized cheese is fine by the way. Any meats that are spoiled of course would present some hazzard but of course why would you want to eat spoiled food. Smoked or fermented foods sometimes are mentioned to be avoided but the tyramine contents of these are very very low. Tyramine is produced by your own gastrointestinal bacteria so there is no way to avoid it totally and these small amounts are of no concern, it's only the bolus effect of eating a concentrated source of tyramine,such as exists with aged cheeses, that constitute a legitimate risk. Eat your protein and enjoy I've taken parnate for several years never once had even the slightest reaction. Low bloodpressure from maoi's is much more of a problem than hypertensive risk. The low pressure from maoi's and non-responsiveness of autonomic sympathetic nervous system constitutes this class of antidepressants only one really significant downfall.

 

Re: MAOI diet - question

Posted by Ray on February 25, 2002, at 1:28:07

In reply to Re: MAOI diet - question, posted by dennison on February 24, 2002, at 22:44:15

I agree pretty much with Dennison.
New lists - if you want to play it very safe than mainly just avoid aged cheese, certain wine (I forget which I don't like wine), imported beer and technically draft beer. Some other oddball foods like banana peels I think.

But I like Dennison with Nardil many years for myself never had anything close to hypertensive crisis type reaction.

I would add 2 things though.

1) I think Serotonin Syndrome is the main concern, not only with Nardil but with most antidepressants actually. I think main thing is do not add any other antidepressants to the MAOI. There are a couple you can add but your Dr. will advise there - to simplify just don't do that yourself.

2) Hypotension is not a "danger" per se. By definition it means standing blood pressure is increased but laying down is normalized. And this can happen with many medications besides MAOI's. Simply again when adding any medications to the MAOI check with Dr.

And Enjoy!!!!! Not to worry!!!

Ray_3888@yahoo.com
http://www.socialfear.com/

> > I have read through many print-outs on MAOI diets, but have the following question. It doesn't say anything about cereals - so cereals are considered safe? When I looked on my box, however, it says that it contains 3mg protein. I looked at several other items, such as noodles, cream of wheat, and others, and all contain some amount of protein. Are they safe to eat?? Thanks for any response.
>
> Hi Margit!!! It's perfectly ok to eat protein with maoi's. Tyramine is the culprit which is to be avoided. Aged cheeses byfar are the biggest risk, tyramine is produced by the bacteriological conversion of tyrosine in the aging process. Pasteurized cheese is fine by the way. Any meats that are spoiled of course would present some hazzard but of course why would you want to eat spoiled food. Smoked or fermented foods sometimes are mentioned to be avoided but the tyramine contents of these are very very low. Tyramine is produced by your own gastrointestinal bacteria so there is no way to avoid it totally and these small amounts are of no concern, it's only the bolus effect of eating a concentrated source of tyramine,such as exists with aged cheeses, that constitute a legitimate risk. Eat your protein and enjoy I've taken parnate for several years never once had even the slightest reaction. Low bloodpressure from maoi's is much more of a problem than hypertensive risk. The low pressure from maoi's and non-responsiveness of autonomic sympathetic nervous system constitutes this class of antidepressants only one really significant downfall.

 

Re: MAOI diet - question » Margit

Posted by Elizabeth on February 28, 2002, at 1:57:37

In reply to MAOI diet - question, posted by Margit on February 24, 2002, at 17:00:17

Tyramine -- the main substance you're trying to avoid -- is produced when bacteria break down tyrosine (one of the amino acids).

In the past I've posted the list I used when I was taking MAOIs. If you're interested, here's a link: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010814/msgs/75408.html

As others have already said, cereal is just fine! You don't need to forgo all protein (which would be pretty unhealthy!).

-elizabeth

 

Re: MAOI diet - question

Posted by allisonm on March 1, 2002, at 19:28:39

In reply to MAOI diet - question, posted by Margit on February 24, 2002, at 17:00:17

Have you seen the links on this page from one of Dr. Bob's sites?

http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html

 

Re: MAOI diet - question

Posted by jsarirose on March 2, 2002, at 0:08:53

In reply to Re: MAOI diet - question, posted by allisonm on March 1, 2002, at 19:28:39

> Have you seen the links on this page from one of Dr. Bob's sites?
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html

Cool - that seemed to answer my raisin question (yes, I get to eat the cereal I just bought) and the yeast extract question (although I'm still a little confused because yeast is listed in so many different forms in soups).

Thanks!

 

Attn jsarirose

Posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 10:14:44

In reply to Re: MAOI diet - question, posted by jsarirose on March 2, 2002, at 0:08:53


Hey Jess check this out:

Lamotrigine as an Augmentation Agent in Treatment-Resistant Depression
James G. Barbee, M.D., and Nowal J. Jamhour, M.A.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Background: The anticonvulsant lamotrigine has been reported to be efficacious and well tolerated as monotherapy in the treatment of bipolar patients as well as in treatment-refractory bipolar disorder. However, there is a paucity of research on the use of lamotrigine as an augmentation agent in treatment-refractory unipolar major depressive disorder.

Method: This study was a retrospective chart review on the efficacy of lamotrigine augmentation in 37 individuals diagnosed with chronic or recurrent major depressive disorder (DSM-IV) who had failed to respond adequately to at least 2 previous trials of antidepressants. Thirty-one patients who were on lamotrigine treatment for at least 6 weeks (6 discontinued prematurely due to adverse events) took a mean dose of 112.90 mg/day for a mean of 41.80 weeks. The primary efficacy parameter for this study was the Clinical Global Impressions scale, which was retrospectively applied. In addition, these data were supplemented by an analysis of prospectively rated Global Assessment of Functioning scores.

Results: On the basis of intent-to-treat analysis, response rates were as follows: 40.5% (15/37) much improved or very much improved, 21.6% (8/37) mildly improved, and 37.8% (14/37) unchanged. The percentage of patients who were rated much or very much improved and completed 6 weeks on the drug was 48.4% (15/31). No differences were found in the doses of lamotrigine given to responders and nonresponders.

Conclusion: Analyses revealed that lamotrigine treatment was most effective for patients who had been depressed for shorter periods of time and had failed fewer previous trials of antidepressants. Data also suggested a trend toward increased response for patients with comorbid anxiety disorders and/or chronic pain syndromes.


(J Clin Psychiatry 2002;63:737-741)

 

Re: Attn jsarirose

Posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 10:54:31

In reply to Attn jsarirose , posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 10:14:44


Okay that was a rather poor abstract -- it turns out that the patients in the trial had taken a mean of 13 (range 2 - 29) antidepressants before
... 9 of the 37 were taking MAOIs (14 SSRIs, 4 TCAs) ... 19 were taking other 2nd Gen antidepressants, 9 had taken stimulants...
... 9 had failed at least 4 different meds including 1 from each of the 3 classes (SSRI, TCA, MAOI) ... another 7 had failed 4 meds from the 3 classes AND ECT ! ...
... patients were trying lithium and/or antipsychotic augmentation as well

basically what i'm saying is these patients in the trial have tried pretty much every combination and augmentation strategy

...48.4% were much or very much improved...
...took about 7 weeks (range 2 - 16) to become much or very much improved ...

anyways

 

Re: Attn jsarirose

Posted by jsarirose on August 13, 2002, at 23:55:46

In reply to Re: Attn jsarirose , posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 10:54:31

> basically what i'm saying is these patients in the trial have tried pretty much every combination and augmentation strategy
>
> ...48.4% were much or very much improved...
> ...took about 7 weeks (range 2 - 16) to become much or very much improved ...
>
> anyways

Thanks for the info. I still can't figure out how to pay for it. I'm on 100mg of Lamictal now - can't increase ($) and can't decrease. I'm currenty down to 50mg of parnate. I'm still feeling okay. I've been having trouble sleeping lately which doesn't make sense to me since by decreasing the Parnate I should be decreasing it's insomnia effects. But meds never do seem to be consistent. I really do want to give Lamictal a good try. I might be able to afford it in a couple months.

-Jessica


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