Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 115697

Shown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?

Posted by glenn on August 8, 2002, at 14:24:35

Hi there everyone, having haunted this board and others for 5 years I may have come across something very interesting for some of us, especially if ads dont help much.
I have noticed over the years on this and other boards a similar theme coming up-
Basically posts saying something like the following:

1. have had depression and anxiety for years

2. not much seems to work , especially ads

3. have been prescribed steroids for a different condition

4. within a day or two I feel much better

5. no high or euphoria just normal

I saw such a post last week by jerrympls and it may tie in with something I only found out last week.
Basically Dr Brian Leonard of the university of Galway has found that in contrast to previous wisdom cortisol boosts rather than depresses the immune system. It may dampen down natural killer cells but other parts such as the cytokines interleukin 1 AND 2, TNF Alpha and the prostaglandin pge2 are all revved up by cortisol.
Many of these have been found to be high in depression and tnf has been found to cause stress and depressive like symptoms in rats.
Apparently Ilf 1 can rev up the hpa axis on its own, so what comes first?!
In Leonards words " Major depression may be a psychoneuroimmunological disease and the drugs used to treat immune conditions may help with depression"
The link with steroids may be that apart from anything else they are immunosupressants.
So rather than having a cortisol or hormonal boost
Jerry and the others may be having relief from an overactive immune system and whatever else that leads to. Most immune chemicals seem very active in the brain it seems.
Please feel free to correct me on anything I have got muddled with as by brain doesnt work as well as it did 5 years ago, but I beleive there may be something very interesting here for some of us.
I by the way have not had a cold or flu or hay fever for 5 years since my "depression" started and I have very high cortisol levels.
Just one last point , Im not sure if steroids do increase cortisol levels, 1mg of dexamethasone sure reduced mine very quickly.
Hope this is of use to someone, it sure makes me consider trying a steroid {short term}or an immunosupressant as a possible help if the celexa im on doesnt help.{not that im recommending this for anyone else}

glenn

ps theres also an earlier article on hed web called A mind under seige by Phyllida Brown which looks at this.

 

Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad? » glenn

Posted by Jerrympls on August 8, 2002, at 22:43:13

In reply to Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?, posted by glenn on August 8, 2002, at 14:24:35

Glenn- Thanks for the info!! I am going to be seeing my doc very soon and will talk to him in depth about this. Since stopping the corticosteriods I was on for asthma/pneumonia I have fallen back inot a deep sad depression. It's horrible how quickly it all came back. There has to be something that can be done! I will report on anything I find out from my doc, etc.

Thanks again!!
Jerry

 

Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?

Posted by inertia on August 9, 2002, at 13:26:27

In reply to Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?, posted by glenn on August 8, 2002, at 14:24:35

> " Major depression may be a psychoneuroimmunological disease and the drugs used to treat immune conditions may help with depression"
>
Thanks for the info. I don't have any 'hard data' to add to what you said, but I've always had a suspicion that people who have asthma or had it as a child have a greater rate of depression. However, after doing a Medline search, I only found a few articles that concluded there is no connection.

I was wondering what others think.

 

Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?

Posted by Jerrympls on August 9, 2002, at 18:19:18

In reply to Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?, posted by inertia on August 9, 2002, at 13:26:27

Saw my pdoc today and told him about my positive experiences while taking the corticosteriods. He was very cool about it and although he didn't know much about it - he did know about current drug trials dealing with cortisol levels, etc. He's going to research it and talk to an endocrinologist about my case and perhaps have me see him and get tests done. My doc said low testosterone could be a factor as well.

 

Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?

Posted by katekite on August 11, 2002, at 21:27:32

In reply to Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?, posted by glenn on August 8, 2002, at 14:24:35

I do think it's weird that people with Addison's (not enough cortisol) need to be given lots of extra cortisol when they get sick or have surgery. One theory on why is that in illness there would otherwise be excessive immune response and cortisol increases to balance it out and make it a response equal to the need. Or another, that sensitivity to cortisol is decreased in most illnesses. Seems odd.

kate

 

Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?

Posted by cybercafe on August 13, 2002, at 7:17:40

In reply to Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?, posted by katekite on August 11, 2002, at 21:27:32

> I do think it's weird that people with Addison's (not enough cortisol) need to be given lots of extra cortisol when they get sick or have surgery. One theory on why is that in illness there would otherwise be excessive immune response and cortisol increases to balance it out and make it a response equal to the need. Or another, that sensitivity to cortisol is decreased in most illnesses. Seems odd.

yeah i am still trying to figure out if wilson's is a "real" syndrome or not... what's interesting is the list of symptoms in hypothyroid or addison's or otherwise minor adrenal fatigue or pituitary malfunction (conn's???) ...

what is most interesting is that they say you can use a thermometer to get more accurate results than a thyroid blood work up ... (or adrenal..) ...
well maybe i havn't got my facts straight...

but maybe it could help you if you have a look:
http://www.drrind.com/symptoms.asp



> kate

 

Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?

Posted by katekite on August 13, 2002, at 11:32:51

In reply to Re: Is it our immune systems making us feel bad?, posted by cybercafe on August 13, 2002, at 7:17:40

Looks like a good comparison list, cybercafe. I'm a little skeptical on some of the notes below, like on intuition etc, but the actual symptom list seems down to earth.

Interesting about the temperature issue. I know I always used to have a normal low temp (in the 97s) and since my cortisol has been high it is always up in what used to be fever territory (high 98s).


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