Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 115396

Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Got a few qu's

Posted by glendean on August 6, 2002, at 10:26:51

I was on 40mg of Celexa for a year. Doc gave me Klonopin to help ease anxiety while coming off of celexa. I took it once and fell asleep at work. that was the end of that. I've been off of the celexa for one week. I have this feeling of "medicine head" like you get when you have a really bad cold or something. Is this from withdrawl? Also I've been on a no carb diet for 3 weeks. Could this head in the clouds feeling be from that? Is there any benefit for my depression and anxiety from this diet? Is there something else I should try, because my depression is easing back. PMS this month nearly took me out! Not sure what to do next? I have an appointment with my doc in two weeks.
P.S. Sorry I'm all over the place here.

 

SSRI

Posted by Anyuser on August 6, 2002, at 11:04:29

In reply to Got a few qu's, posted by glendean on August 6, 2002, at 10:26:51

The feeling of SSRI withdrawal lasts a couple of weeks, and was pretty pronounced, in my experience. Here is a link with some info: http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.withdrawal.html. You could also search this site and find many postings on the topic. I bet it is too soon to tell if your depression is recurring.

 

Re: Got a few qu's » glendean

Posted by awake at last on August 6, 2002, at 12:54:30

In reply to Got a few qu's, posted by glendean on August 6, 2002, at 10:26:51

> I was on 40mg of Celexa for a year. Doc gave me Klonopin to help ease anxiety while coming off of celexa. I took it once and fell asleep at work. that was the end of that. I've been off of the celexa for one week. I have this feeling of "medicine head" like you get when you have a really bad cold or something. Is this from withdrawl? Also I've been on a no carb diet for 3 weeks. Could this head in the clouds feeling be from that? Is there any benefit for my depression and anxiety from this diet? Is there something else I should try, because my depression is easing back. PMS this month nearly took me out! Not sure what to do next? I have an appointment with my doc in two weeks.
> P.S. Sorry I'm all over the place here.
**************************************************
You could still be having some withdrawal symptoms from the Celexa, though I found them to be minimal compared to Effexor XR.
I would advise that you get off the NO CARB diet though, that will definitely mess up your blood sugar levels and that will definitely make you feel weird, and from experience I know that having your blood sugar levels off contributes to the symptoms of depression. (I'm hypoglycemic).
Why are you on the NO CARB diet? Just for weight loss reasons, or do you think that there is something in what you eat effecting your depression?

 

Re: Got a few qu's

Posted by Christina on August 6, 2002, at 13:08:59

In reply to Got a few qu's, posted by glendean on August 6, 2002, at 10:26:51

Withdrawal from celexa can produce headaches, light-headedness, tingling sensations in your head, and cold-type symptoms from my experience.

I also tried a no-carb diet which did nothing for my depression, and actually made me feel very weak and lightheaded.

I suggest eliminating simple carbs (sugar, white flour, processed foods), while making sure you have protein at every meal, sufficient fat (from fish, nuts and nut butter, avocados, olive oil, butter, etc). I would also add some complex carbs like sweet potatoes, fruit, oatmeal, etc to your diet as well.

Also, if you drink a lot of sodas (even diet) and/or coffee, I would begin to reduce the amount you drink, and drink water instead.

It won't cure depression, but I think it provides more energy for your body which will make you feel better and more likely to exercise.

Also, if you've been on ADs for a longtime, and you stop taking them, you can experience re-bound depression (mine came with a vengeance back after about 3 months off ADs).

Hope this helps.


 

Serotonin effects Blood Sugar - Celexa - Serotonin » glendean

Posted by awake at last on August 6, 2002, at 22:29:24

In reply to Got a few qu's, posted by glendean on August 6, 2002, at 10:26:51

> I was on 40mg of Celexa for a year. Doc gave me Klonopin to help ease anxiety while coming off of celexa. I took it once and fell asleep at work. that was the end of that. I've been off of the celexa for one week. I have this feeling of "medicine head" like you get when you have a really bad cold or something. Is this from withdrawl? Also I've been on a no carb diet for 3 weeks. Could this head in the clouds feeling be from that? Is there any benefit for my depression and anxiety from this diet? Is there something else I should try, because my depression is easing back. PMS this month nearly took me out! Not sure what to do next? I have an appointment with my doc in two weeks.
> P.S. Sorry I'm all over the place here.
***********************************************
I've done a little more research. Celexa is designed to effect serotonin, and Serotonin is definitely connected to blood sugar levels.
I think what you are experincing is a double hit of low serotonin. Going off of the Celexa, you body is losing the increased serotonin you were getting from the Celexa - it will take your body a little time to get use to producing the required amount again. But as well, since you omitted all carbs from your diet - you further reduced your serotinin levels (carbs increase this - be careful though - the wrong type of carbs can send you in a vicious cycle).
If you are looking for a diet to make you feel better - try a hypoglycemic one - there are several on-line or ask your local hospital for a copy of theirs. It will help you naturally increase your serotonin and blood sugar without over doing it. As well, this is probably the reason for your PMS problems as well - here's an interesting site to help explain that, and some suggestions to make it better:
www.healthatoz.com/atoz/healthupdate/alert09112001.html

Want to know more about the effect of Serotonin on blood sugar - go to Yahoo and search on "serotonin blood sugar" it will give you more than you probably want to know.

Hypoglycemia is notorious for causing anxiety as well... (80% of violent prisoners are hypoglycemics - scary huh).

Check it out...your signs really seem to point this direction. Hypoglycemia is very difficult to diagnose, glucose tests don't always show it. Best thing to do is get a glucometer and monitor the results periodically along with what you eat to see what reactions you get from different foods.

Good luck!

 

carbs, etc. » glendean

Posted by terra miller on August 7, 2002, at 10:30:00

In reply to Got a few qu's, posted by glendean on August 6, 2002, at 10:26:51

hi. i think all of those things you mentioned could be contributing to your symptoms. looks like lots of variables.

about the diet discussion, i think lowering carbs is very healthy. you don't want low blood sugar levels, but you neither want high ones either. what you want is a consistent level. and so my current thinking (i am not a doc.) is that food combining along with carb reduction is a better alternative.

eat proteins with veggies and fats. eat carbs with veggies but not fats. eat fruits alone. carbs should be whole grains without fats. nonfat milk with carbs but not proteins (ie: grapenuts and nonfat milk or bagels or oatmeal for breakfast) the result is steady and constancy. do not use caffeine, as this will increase levels as well.

your body needs whole grains, but not starches (potatoes, carrots, white flours all break down to sugar in your body) so don't eliminate the whole grains. it also needs the benefits of fruits and berries. the important thing is to eat fruits alone, and do not eat carbs with proteins/fats. eliminate caffeine. that's it in a nutshell. eat veggies with anything but fruit.

i take wellbutrin as my med. i also eat this way. initially eliminating only caffeine was really beneficial. but when i started food combining i couldn't believe how i mellowed out... no more peaks and valleys from insulin highs and lows/starches breaking down to sugars.

of course, this is my story and "i am not a doc."

i hope you start to feel better soon.

~terra

 

Re: I eat in food combinations as well...

Posted by awake at last on August 7, 2002, at 16:28:51

In reply to carbs, etc. » glendean, posted by terra miller on August 7, 2002, at 10:30:00

> hi. i think all of those things you mentioned could be contributing to your symptoms. looks like lots of variables.
>
> about the diet discussion, i think lowering carbs is very healthy. you don't want low blood sugar levels, but you neither want high ones either. what you want is a consistent level. and so my current thinking (i am not a doc.) is that food combining along with carb reduction is a better alternative.
>
> eat proteins with veggies and fats. eat carbs with veggies but not fats. eat fruits alone. carbs should be whole grains without fats. nonfat milk with carbs but not proteins (ie: grapenuts and nonfat milk or bagels or oatmeal for breakfast) the result is steady and constancy. do not use caffeine, as this will increase levels as well.
>
> your body needs whole grains, but not starches (potatoes, carrots, white flours all break down to sugar in your body) so don't eliminate the whole grains. it also needs the benefits of fruits and berries. the important thing is to eat fruits alone, and do not eat carbs with proteins/fats. eliminate caffeine. that's it in a nutshell. eat veggies with anything but fruit.
>
> i take wellbutrin as my med. i also eat this way. initially eliminating only caffeine was really beneficial. but when i started food combining i couldn't believe how i mellowed out... no more peaks and valleys from insulin highs and lows/starches breaking down to sugars.
>
> of course, this is my story and "i am not a doc."
>
> i hope you start to feel better soon.
>
> ~terra
***********************************************
FYI,
A year ago I started looking for a diet that I could follow to lose weight and not interfere with my diet, and food combining works well. For a good reference - take a look at Suzanne Somers books - she makes it easy and simple. She takes the simple carbs out of the diet and uses rules to define what foods can be eaten together. Though I am happy with my weight now, I still follow these guidelines not to gain weight back; eating in combos really helps if you have any digestive problems as well.

 

Re: Got a few qu's

Posted by katekite on August 7, 2002, at 20:49:37

In reply to Got a few qu's, posted by glendean on August 6, 2002, at 10:26:51

Withdrawal. And maybe some malnutrition, LOL.

In the past I think I made a mistake to go right back on an antidepressant after feeling the depression creeping back a month or so after I'd quit (Zoloft). It really takes a few months to know what you are like apart from effects of the drug (at the very least as long as it took Celexa to work fully, a year ago). If you can stand the minor depression of withdrawal you might find you are not as depressed as you think.

On the other hand, if you feel suicidal or deeply depressed that is probably not only withdrawal talking.

I agree with others who've already posted that a balanced diet is the way to go. There is nothing wrong with low carbs but NO carbs is a problem. Think of how the human body evolved and what our ancestors ate when you think about your diet: it can't be wrong to eat what we evolved eating. Some societies were more hunters, some more gatherers. But the hunters (ie low carb) didn't eat ONLY meat. So they ate: fruit, roots, vegetables, and eggs, fish, meat proteins, and probably it was dirty (a vitamin pill with minerals might be an easier way than actually eating dirt, LOL). They did not eat the complex carbohydrates like fast food and white bread and breakfast sugar-I-mean-cereal. But they definitely ate some carbohydrates.

Kate

 

Carbs with fat

Posted by Christina on August 8, 2002, at 15:02:23

In reply to Re: I eat in food combinations as well..., posted by awake at last on August 7, 2002, at 16:28:51

I had always heard the exact opposite.... that you SHOULD eat fat when consuming carbs.

Like peanut butter on bread
Butter on Potatoes,
Etc

Because the fat will slow down the absorbtion of the carbs and decrease the sharp insulin spike from eating carbs alone.

It works MUCH better for me this way.

 

Re: Carbs with fat

Posted by terra miller on August 9, 2002, at 0:08:15

In reply to Carbs with fat, posted by Christina on August 8, 2002, at 15:02:23

the fat would slow down the absorption of the carbs, giving you a fuller feeling since your stomach has to work harder using different enzymes for digesting different ph's.

but if you eat fats with carbs, your body will store the fats as fat.

peanut butter (nuts) is actually considered both a protein and a carb, making it better to eat alone.

if you want your body to digest efficiently, don't mix carbs with fats or proteins. on the other hand, i suppose if what you want is a fuller feeling for longer that you could eat carbs with proteins, but it feels lousy once you've learned what it feels like to combine well.

i agree that of some of the reading material out there, that suzanne somers seems to make it the most easily understood and practical.

it's really all about science, ph's, and realizing that it's all about sugar. insulin causes your body to store fat. carbs break down into sugar which causes your insulin to rise. if you eat fats with carbs, your body will store the fats as fats. proteins do not cause your insulin to spike, so that's when you should eat any fats that you are going to eat.

terra (i am not a doc)

 

Re: Carbs with fat

Posted by glendean on August 9, 2002, at 14:09:05

In reply to Re: Carbs with fat, posted by terra miller on August 9, 2002, at 0:08:15

Thank you guys so much for the advice about combined eating. I will have to give that a try. I'm trying to use diet to control weight, not to control my mood (although if it helped that would be a bonus).
Question about changing meds. So I've been off of celexa now for maybe two weeks. I've been feeling pretty crappy, ya know crying and getting really irritated at things. I have a doc appt. on Monday. Should I request a new med or should I wait longer (as someone posted earlier) and see if it's just withdrawl and maybe I'll "normalize" after a few more weeks?
Thanks again!

 

Re: Carbs with fat

Posted by awake at last on August 9, 2002, at 14:27:23

In reply to Re: Carbs with fat, posted by glendean on August 9, 2002, at 14:09:05

> Thank you guys so much for the advice about combined eating. I will have to give that a try. I'm trying to use diet to control weight, not to control my mood (although if it helped that would be a bonus).
> Question about changing meds. So I've been off of celexa now for maybe two weeks. I've been feeling pretty crappy, ya know crying and getting really irritated at things. I have a doc appt. on Monday. Should I request a new med or should I wait longer (as someone posted earlier) and see if it's just withdrawl and maybe I'll "normalize" after a few more weeks?
> Thanks again!
************************************************
I think only you and your doctor can make that decision. We don't know enough about your situation. But please tell the doctor what you've told us and see if he thinks it may have to do with your blood sugar. (Have you ever had a blood glucose check done? If so, maybe it wouldn't hurt to do it again). The two of you need to decide whether or not changing the way you eat may improve how you are feeling, and if you are up to the challenge. Fortunately some of us have been able over the years to get well from years of research and experimenting. But I would never suggest that you change your course of treatment without talking to your doctor. Use what you learn here as information to take back and discuss with your doctor. If he's a good physician he'll listen and help.

Good luck!

 

Re: med changes

Posted by terra miller on August 9, 2002, at 21:25:35

In reply to Re: Carbs with fat, posted by glendean on August 9, 2002, at 14:09:05

i was wondering if there's a way, if the irritability persists, to have your doc prescribe something to take the edge off? if you can do what you can do to keep your variables down and not change everything else, then you can narrow your symptoms down to the celexa.... if you can manage that. in my life, dosing down too low comes definately with irritability, tearfulness and being really hard to live with/short fuse. sometimes if you are coming off one drug, a doc will prescribe something else for the interim so that you don't scream at everybody in your path while your body is adjusting.

terra

 

Re: I eat in food combinations as well... » awake at last

Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 19:51:03

In reply to Re: I eat in food combinations as well..., posted by awake at last on August 7, 2002, at 16:28:51

Hi. Did you mention you have hypoglycemia? Would Books by Suzanne Sommers (for combinations of foods) also work well for hypoglycemic diets, or should I first look into these diets, then food combining. I also need to lower my high cholesterol. I'm hoping to do all three to make me better mentally and physically.

I find this thread very interesting- I'm glad you guys are talking about this. I know food combinations definately affect me, but I thought it was mostly me being too sensitive. I don't know anything about combinations of foods but I think its time I do!
Hypoglycemia I have-I must have, that would be the only explanation.
I think its from being on SSRI's all these years.
I finally stopped zoloft and that has helped a little, but I am now taking another SSRI. So, back to the problem again. I need to change my diet big time! I have been avoiding the issue, but this thread is another reality check for me to stop avoiding this.
Hildi

 

Re: I eat in food combinations as well... » hildi

Posted by awake at last on August 12, 2002, at 9:41:48

In reply to Re: I eat in food combinations as well... » awake at last, posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 19:51:03

> Hi. Did you mention you have hypoglycemia? Would Books by Suzanne Sommers (for combinations of foods) also work well for hypoglycemic diets, or should I first look into these diets, then food combining. I also need to lower my high cholesterol. I'm hoping to do all three to make me better mentally and physically.
>
> I find this thread very interesting- I'm glad you guys are talking about this. I know food combinations definately affect me, but I thought it was mostly me being too sensitive. I don't know anything about combinations of foods but I think its time I do!
> Hypoglycemia I have-I must have, that would be the only explanation.
> I think its from being on SSRI's all these years.
> I finally stopped zoloft and that has helped a little, but I am now taking another SSRI. So, back to the problem again. I need to change my diet big time! I have been avoiding the issue, but this thread is another reality check for me to stop avoiding this.
> Hildi

***********************************************
Yes, I am Hypoglycemic, the Suzanne Somers diet works really well for me for a number of reasons. One - it eliminates the foods that I'm not supposed to have as a hypoglycemic like simple carbs (white flour etc), sugar, and caffiene. As well, her diet allows me to get whatever amount of food I need, and if I switch food types, there is never more than a 3 hour wait, which is critical because I can't go 4-5 hours without eating something.
Her book doesn't explain how often to switch back and forth from a carb meal to a protein meal, I think this is something you just have to experiment with, but I've found I have to have a variety of both. My mornings are pretty consistent, I have a fruit when I first get up, wait my 2 hrs. then have a protein breakfast (eggs, ham or bacon), then I always make lunch and dinner opposite (one carb, one protein). I make my mid-day snack match what ever I'm going to have for dinner, so I don't have to worry about what time I have to eat dinner (my mid-day snack is always 3 hrs. after lunch).
I really did lose weight on this diet easily and without the major sugar cravings all the others gave me because they affected my hypoglycemia. I do like her somersweet as well, and it doesn't seem to have an effect on my hypoglycemia like some of the other sugar replacements do.
There are several Hypoglycemic diets you can find on the internet, but with them and the one I got from our hospital, I found that I actually was gaining weight because they wanted you to eat all the time - and the wrong combos were packing the weight on me.
If you have a good understand of how foods effect you hypoglycemia, then you'll do better with the Suzanne Somers diet, just make sure that you get a good mix of the different meal types - fruit, carbs and protein throughout the day.

 

Thanks for the reply (nm) » awake at last

Posted by hildi on August 12, 2002, at 13:08:21

In reply to Re: I eat in food combinations as well... » hildi, posted by awake at last on August 12, 2002, at 9:41:48

 

Re: Carbs with fat--Christina and » terra miller

Posted by BeardedLady on August 13, 2002, at 14:13:32

In reply to Re: Carbs with fat, posted by terra miller on August 9, 2002, at 0:08:15

I think the general rule is "whatever works for you." But the only diet out there that I think (for what THAT'S worth!) is worth its salt is The Zone, which advocates eating 30 mgs. of carbs to 20 mgs of protein to 10 mgs. of fat (or something like that!). You need fat to make you feel satisfied, and you need protein to slow down the carbs.

But what the Zone advocates (and I adhere to) is to use bread and pasta sparingly. I've almost completely eliminated (except on special occasions) flour. No bread, cake, cookies (except Miss Meringues, yum!), cereal, pasta, crackers. I've had rice once or twice.

Anyway, I wrote more about this on Social, but I'm interested in the food discussion. It has taken me a long time to lose the weight that meds put on. It's been about 16 weeks at Weight Watchers (8 lbs.) and 5 additional weeks without bread (8 lbs.).

Bread came out a loser for me. Eliminating it has counteracted the Serzone-slowed metabolism!

beardy


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