Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 75408

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Re: hypertensive experiences?

Posted by ayrity on July 26, 2002, at 23:14:20

In reply to Re: hypertensive experiences? SLS SLS, posted by cybercafe on July 26, 2002, at 0:15:21

> i believe some people commented that parnate >can react with it's own stimulant-type metabolites to cause a spontaneous hypertensive crisis? though i imagine this must be quite rare
>

Yes, this is quite rare- lucky me! As I've written before, I seem to get all the side effects of meds and little benefit.

Update- I'm still on the Parnate 30 daily- instead of taking 20 mg in the AM/10 in the PM I'm spreading the dose evenly throughout the day. My blood pressure *still* spikes after each dose, but not quite as high before and I might be adapting to it. We're giving it another few weeks; if no change then off with the Parnate. Since 30 mg doesn't seem to do much for my mood and energy (in fact I feel worse, more withdrawn, irritable and tired), there's no sense in continuing it if we can't up the dose without causing more BP problems.

In answer to someone's previous question, yes my doc's MAOI of choice is Marplan- he feels it's equally effective and has fewer side effects, though he does prescribe Nardil as well (I guess it depends on the case; knowing all the bad side effects I'm prone to, maybe he feels Marplan is a better choice).

 

Re: Refining the MAOI Diet/ Chinese Restaurants

Posted by KellyM on July 27, 2002, at 8:41:30

In reply to Re: Refining the MAOI Diet, posted by jsarirose on July 26, 2002, at 1:41:09

> >
> > jess: which soy sauces have you tried in the past? ... and were they fresh, or restaurantish?
> >
> > i am wondering if the "tyramine content in chinese food", Wing Y-K, Chen C-N, journal clinical psychopharmacology 1997, might have yet even more information, but i can't seem to find a copy online .........
>
> I've had different types of soy sauce, from the ones in restaurants to store bought (cheap & expensive like Tamari). Haven't had a problem with any. In a restaurant if I'm eating something that has soy sauce in it I don't tend to add more - but that's more of a taste preference than being worried about tyramine.
>
> Was there a big difference in the five soy sauces tested?
>
> I also don't know if there could ever be a difinitive listing of tyramine content in chinese food. Restaurants vary so much as to the way they make similar dishes.
>
> -Jessica

There are a couple of chinese restaurants that I have gone to with no problems. I am pretty adamant about telling them to use less sauce when preparing the dish. The food has just a slight "glistening" on it. Of course I add no extra soy sauce to it. I don't want to give anyone the impression that this would always be safe for everyone- just my experience. I might add that I'm taking 60mg Nardil, so it's not an extra high dose.

I don't notice a great deal of taste difference either. I suppose you could also add non soy based sauces also (I like chile sauce :)}

Kelly

 

hypertensive experiences - prevention?

Posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 20:57:14

In reply to Re: hypertensive experiences?, posted by ayrity on July 26, 2002, at 23:14:20


just wondering, have any of you guys ever been eating and noticed a hypertensive crisis starting before you finished eating.. and were able to stop your meal and only get a partial migraine??

 

Re: Refining the MAOI Diet-st johns wort

Posted by felipe on July 29, 2002, at 23:35:29

In reply to Re: Refining the MAOI Diet, posted by cybercafe on July 26, 2002, at 10:50:45

does anybody know if these restrictions also apply to st john's wort,since it is supposed to be a weak maoi?im about to start taking sjw but if all this can interact i wont.however i havent read anywhere that certain foods should be avoided while taking it.if anyone knows something about this please tell me.

 

Re: Refining the MAOI Diet-st johns wort

Posted by cybercafe on July 30, 2002, at 6:45:56

In reply to Re: Refining the MAOI Diet-st johns wort, posted by felipe on July 29, 2002, at 23:35:29

> does anybody know if these restrictions also apply to st john's wort,since it is supposed to be a weak maoi?im about to start taking sjw but if all this can interact i wont.however i havent read anywhere that certain foods should be avoided while taking it.if anyone knows something about this please tell me.

my friend took it and didn't go by any diet.. but i can't say for sure you won't die if you eat the wrong thing, sorry, maybe someone else can

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 9:02:10

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Bobbiedobbs on July 23, 2002, at 23:21:15

Have you used Kraft's grated parmesan cheese that comes in the plastic container? I recall using the fat free kind in the past while on MAOI's and not having a problem with it, but am not trusting my memory. Have you had any experiences with this and would you consider this to be "processed" cheese?
Thanks,
Lisa

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 14:38:46

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 9:02:10

> Have you used Kraft's grated parmesan cheese that comes in the plastic container? I recall using the fat free kind in the past while on MAOI's and not having a problem with it, but am not trusting my memory. Have you had any experiences with this and would you consider this to be "processed" cheese?
> Thanks,
> Lisa


That's a really good question. I've used real parmesan in moderate quantities. For example, if it's in a recipe I won't add it to the top, but if the recipe contains none I'll add a tbsp or so (of shredded, not grated).

I haven't used the processed parmesan though. I know processed american cheese is listed as okay and so is macaroni and cheese but I've been too nervous to try it. I'm also curious whether the natural macaroni and cheese would count as okay or is it unprocessed (for example, Annie's brand).

I guess if we knew more about what 'processed' meant and what takes the tyramine out of it, we might be able to figure it out.

Anyone?

-Jessica

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 17:57:03

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 14:38:46

As always, thanks Jess. Hoping Bobbydobbs will respond since he's a veteran MAOI user!
Lisa

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by Bobbiedobbs on July 30, 2002, at 22:33:27

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 9:02:10

Re: Krafts processed Parmesan. I can't give you a technical answer. I am probably more liberal with diet restrictions than most, yet I've avoided it. I will eat a highly processed food WITH parmesan in it if it is very low in a long list of ingredients. I've never experienced any blood pressure elevation (or visceral reaction) in any way from that. But "parmesan", even in processed form, is not considered "processed American cheese" as defined in the diets that allow it.

 

Re: MAOI diet short list Bobbiedobbs

Posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 22:51:57

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Bobbiedobbs on July 30, 2002, at 22:33:27

What do you think about a natural mac & cheese. I guess it wouldn't technically be processed like Kraft would. Has anyone actually eaten Kraft Mac & Cheese? Is it really okay?

-Jessica

 

Re: MAOI diet short list Bobbiedobbs

Posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 23:07:27

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Bobbiedobbs on July 30, 2002, at 22:33:27

I posted my question on two different threads and the response below was very helpful! I recommend going to the link to read the attached data, it was quite informative and thorough.

Re: parmesan cheese tyramine content LLL
Posted by christophrejmc on July 30, 2002, at 22:26:20

In reply to Calling all experienced MAOI dieters, posted by LLL on July 29, 2002, at 16:33:03

According to http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html Kraft brand parmesan cheese contains about 0.2mg of tyramine per serving--not enough to cause any problems.

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list Bobbiedobbs, posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 23:07:27

Can we really eat all those cheeses? I've been eating mozzarella all along because it's a 'fresh' cheese as opposed to aged, but according to that list there are several others that are safe: Gruyere, Muenster, Feta, Brie... I'd love to eat some of these, but I'm still nervous. Anyone experimented?

-Jessica

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 3:49:32

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01

> Can we really eat all those cheeses? I've been eating mozzarella all along because it's a 'fresh' cheese as opposed to aged, but according to that list there are several others that are safe: Gruyere, Muenster, Feta, Brie... I'd love to eat some of these, but I'm still nervous. Anyone experimented?

i eat whatever they sell in the store at subway or mcdonald's or major pizza joints...

i can't say that it will be safe for you too of course... :(

but wow... i had no idea marmite was so incredably bad

 

Re: MAOI diet short list jsarirose

Posted by LLL on July 31, 2002, at 8:36:45

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01

Jessica, the problem with the cheeses you mention is that they vary so much from one manufacturer to the next and it's impossible to determine the process they went through. I would use caution with those cheeses.

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 21:11:38

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list jsarirose, posted by LLL on July 31, 2002, at 8:36:45

> Jessica, the problem with the cheeses you mention is that they vary so much from one manufacturer to the next and it's impossible to determine the process they went through. I would use caution with those cheeses.

you know what's strange?
http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html
says Parmesan and Feta have half the tyramine content of mozzerella

 

hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine

Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 22:22:04

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01


maybe chlorpromazine is better than nifedepine:

Weekly Web Review in Emergency Medicine
Article Review: January 31, 1997




SHOULD A MORATORIUM BE PLACED ON SUBLINGUAL NIFEDIPINE CAPSULES GIVEN FOR HYPERTENSIVE EMERGENCIES AND PSEUDOEMERGENCIES?
Grossman E, Messerli FH, Grodzicki T, et al. JAMA, October 23/30, 1996; 276:1328

BACKGROUND: Nifedipine is a peripheral vasodilator that produces hypotension, along with reflex tachycardia and myocardial contractility. Although sublingual short-acting nifedipine is often given in the emergency department to rapidly lower elevated blood pressure, such use has not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. The safety of this practice has never been demonstrated; in fact, adverse effects associated with nifedipine-induced precipitous blood pressure reduction include cerebral ischemia and infarction, acute myocardial infarction, complete heart block, and death. In actual hypertensive emergencies (severe hypertension with secondary encephalopathy, stroke, myocardial infarction, dissecting aortic aneurysm, or acute renal failure), more reliable and controllable agents such as intravenous nitroprusside are indicated. In other settings, physician attempts to lower blood pressure acutely are often merely "blood pressure cosmetics," with significant risks but little potential benefit. The authors conclude that the routine use of short-acting nifedipine capsules in hypertensive emergencies and pseudoemergencies should be abandoned.


 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by jsarirose on July 31, 2002, at 23:55:52

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 21:11:38

> you know what's strange?
> http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html
> says Parmesan and Feta have half the tyramine content of mozzerella
>
>

Well I know I've never had a problem with Parmesan although I've never really over done it. But it hasn't seemed to matter how much I've had. I haven't tried feta, but maybe I'll get brave and try it. I really miss greek salads!

Today I had a veggie sandwich with Goat cheese. I thought it was something like chevre, but it was actually goat brie. I had a big bite before I realized that it was brie. I was a little nervous, but no reaction whatsoever. I didn't eat the rest though.

Compared to cheddar, which I had a few bites of once, I started feeling the effect pretty soon.

-Jessica

 

Re: MAOI diet short list jsarirose

Posted by LLL on August 1, 2002, at 0:17:25

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 31, 2002, at 23:55:52

Well, good luck. Don't get to risky - take care.
Lisa

 

Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine

Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 0:34:34

In reply to hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 22:22:04

Interesting article.

All I know is my personal experience and what I read online. I've never had a problem taking the Chlorpromazine, high blood pressure or not. And I've heard various negative reports about most of the alternatives. Aside from feeling a bit groggy for a day or two, it's always worked great for me. Worth a try, eh?

-Jessica

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:10:46

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 31, 2002, at 23:55:52

>it. But it hasn't seemed to matter how much I've had. I haven't tried feta, but maybe I'll get brave and try it. I really miss greek salads!

okay jess -- just for you, i risked my life and tried some feta today... no problem here at 30 mg

 

Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine

Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:12:13

In reply to Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 0:34:34

> All I know is my personal experience and what I read online. I've never had a problem taking the Chlorpromazine, high blood pressure or not. And I've heard various negative reports about most of the alternatives. Aside from feeling a bit groggy for a day or two, it's always worked great for me. Worth a try, eh?

... what negative reports have you read about the rest? ...

... the main thing i learned here is that the nifedepine doesn't relieve the migraine -- and that seems like a downside :(

 

Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine

Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:55:49

In reply to Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:12:13

> > All I know is my personal experience and what I read online. I've never had a problem taking the Chlorpromazine, high blood pressure or not. And I've heard various negative reports about most of the alternatives. Aside from feeling a bit groggy for a day or two, it's always worked great for me. Worth a try, eh?
>
> ... what negative reports have you read about the rest? ...
>
> ... the main thing i learned here is that the nifedepine doesn't relieve the migraine -- and that seems like a downside :(

Maybe I shouldn't have said that - it's mostly just word of mouth. It seems like some people have said what you just did, that it doesn't relieve headaches. And others were on emergency meds that still required a trip to the er. I haven't really heard anything positive about what other people use.

-Jessica

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:58:03

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:10:46

> >it. But it hasn't seemed to matter how much I've had. I haven't tried feta, but maybe I'll get brave and try it. I really miss greek salads!
>
> okay jess -- just for you, i risked my life and tried some feta today... no problem here at 30 mg

Ooh, thank you. Can't wait to buy or make a nice big greek salad tomorrow! Now how about trying some brie, muenster, gruyere, ... I miss my baked brie with garlic, my gruyere with crackers, and my grilled muenster cheese sandwich. ; )

Thanks,
Jessica

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 7:55:03

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:58:03

> Ooh, thank you. Can't wait to buy or make a nice big greek salad tomorrow! Now how about trying some brie, muenster, gruyere, ... I miss my baked brie with garlic, my gruyere with crackers, and my grilled muenster cheese sandwich. ; )

hey cheese girl... what kind of effect do you think having cheeses sit (in a restaurant kitchen; in your refrigerator) has on their tyramine level?

the one i tried was in a frozen dinner

 

Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine

Posted by LLL on August 1, 2002, at 9:15:40

In reply to Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:55:49

I used it twice, once while working in the hospital and the other in addition to going to the ER. You're correct, it doesn't releive the migraine (although I expect that this isn't typical of a migraine but much worse) and thus the feeling that the nifedepine isn't working.
Although I have a new doc (2nd one in 2 weeks) she also refuses to prescribe this and it may be because of this potential for further harm.


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