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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ross on July 28, 2002, at 10:21:03
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................, posted by hildi on July 27, 2002, at 19:16:58
i just took my first dosage today. i will start off taking 15mgs TID then after 3 days take an extra 15 then after 4 days take the full dose of 75mgs. that worked well for me in the past. i was drug free for 8 days. in the new leaflet for ssri's you should wait 10 days. for buspar and wellbutrin 14 days. there is always the risk of serotonin syndrom if you go on to fast. if you where inpatient and they decided on an MAO dr.s break the rules. i know people who went on MAO's 5 days after stopping meds.
good luck
ross
Posted by hildi on July 28, 2002, at 12:41:57
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................, posted by ross on July 28, 2002, at 10:21:03
Posted by cybercafe on July 28, 2002, at 13:20:25
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................, posted by ross on July 28, 2002, at 10:21:03
> i just took my first dosage today. i will start off taking 15mgs TID then after 3 days take an extra 15 then after 4 days take the full dose of 75mgs. that worked well for me in the past. i was
will somebody please tell me where 20 years of severe anxiety went? how it just disappeared?
MAOIs are magic!
Posted by hildi on July 28, 2002, at 17:16:58
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................, posted by cybercafe on July 28, 2002, at 13:20:25
Posted by cybercafe on July 28, 2002, at 20:04:26
In reply to Cybercafe, are you on Nardil or Parnate? (nm), posted by hildi on July 28, 2002, at 17:16:58
I'm on Parnate...
...though I hear Nardil is better for anxiety... but because i was suffering from hypersonmia and bad depression parnate was probably better for me...
Posted by jaby on July 28, 2002, at 20:58:36
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................, posted by cybercafe on July 28, 2002, at 13:20:25
Cybercafe,
So has Parnate pretty much whiped out all your anxiety as well as depression? I ask because I am GAD/dep/BPII and am getting to the end of the med list. An MAOI might be my next choice and then serious contemplation of ECT if that is not successful.> > i just took my first dosage today. i will start off taking 15mgs TID then after 3 days take an extra 15 then after 4 days take the full dose of 75mgs. that worked well for me in the past. i was
>
> will somebody please tell me where 20 years of severe anxiety went? how it just disappeared?
> MAOIs are magic!
Posted by cybercafe on July 28, 2002, at 23:24:07
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king...cybercafe, posted by jaby on July 28, 2002, at 20:58:36
> So has Parnate pretty much whiped out all your anxiety as well as depression? I ask because I
Well I've been on it less than 2 months and I have heard some people havn't even started to feel anxiolytic effects till after 3 (but they were strong effects -- worth waiting for).
My depression isn't gone 100% that's for sure.
As for anxiety, I took parnate just for depression not expecting any effect on my anxiety... but what could only be described as Social Terror is now almost gone. I mean I used to be afraid of my friends, ... now I am barely anxious around cute girls :)>am GAD/dep/BPII and am getting to the end of the med list. An MAOI might be my next choice and then serious contemplation of ECT if that is not successful.
Yeah GAD is definately 100% whiped out. And I'm still at the lowest dose (30 mg).
There are lots of options other than ECT. Maybe ECT is the safest, I don't know. But you can always go for a stimulant, anti-parkinson med, lamotrigine, lithium, opiate, thyroid, antipsychotic, beta blocker, anti-cortisol, substance P antagonist, and many different augmentation strategies as well ..........
take care :)
Posted by Jackd on July 28, 2002, at 23:37:08
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king...cybercafe, posted by cybercafe on July 28, 2002, at 23:24:07
MAOI seems to be the word on the street right now. I have atypical anergic depression with comorbid anxiety, ADD and mood disorder (BPII). I am in the same boat as a lot of you guys and I'm crossing my fingers too. All hail MAOI !
Posted by Bob on July 29, 2002, at 0:45:05
In reply to I am the Nardil king........................, posted by ross on July 27, 2002, at 0:01:08
> there is not a drug quite like nardil. it takes a full 4 weeks before it works and all of a sudden its like zap, it kicks your ass. it energizes you. gets you out into social situations, kills any depression u may have. it quite simply works better than anything out there right now. the diet is a joke. you can eat cheese just stay away from aged chesses. i ate so much chocolate to so many things. just carry PROCARDIA 10mgs bite and swallow if you get a stiff headache that is throbbing. procardia will bring down BP very quickly so u must also be prepared for that.
> i can go on and on about Nardil but im tired and going to sleep. ask me any questions
> ross
Do the MAOIs have severe sex side effects and weight gain? I thought I heard that Nardil wipes out orgasm and ability to have an erection, and causes serious weight gain.
Posted by ross on July 29, 2002, at 1:07:31
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................ » ross, posted by Bob on July 29, 2002, at 0:45:05
yes Nardil at a good enough dose really kills erection and orgasm. at 60mgs i am fine. at 75mgs the side effect really comes into play. there is not much you can do unless you take viagra which works for the erection and bethanchol which helps empty the bladder. its not wise to take ginko biloba and nardil at the same time. but just like all meds over a long enough time this side effect will diminish somewhat. also after a few blood levels and if u are feeling good you can try to lower the dose. its all dose dependant,
you will stack on the pounds if you have a bad diet. first off a givin 5-10ls water retention results from nardil. also it makes you crave sweets like nothing i ever ever imagined. so u must diet and exercise and you can keep off the weight.
ross
Posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 2:01:34
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................ » ross, posted by Bob on July 29, 2002, at 0:45:05
> Do the MAOIs have severe sex side effects and weight gain? I thought I heard that Nardil wipes out orgasm and ability to have an erection, and causes serious weight gain.
YES -- Parnate makes me a sex-crazed lunatic
It causes weight loss though
Posted by hildi on July 29, 2002, at 10:00:00
In reply to I am the Nardil king........................, posted by ross on July 27, 2002, at 0:01:08
I know you said to wait 10 days after stopping an SSRI before starting either one (I'm still researching which one to try) But what about after stopping Prozac?
I have been taking low doses of paxil, zoloft, (one day paxil, another day zoloft)and I've taken 10 mg prozac twice in the last couple weeks. (yeah- I've been playing around with the SSRI's- I can't seem to figure out what to do with them. They all make me feel the same way and I don't like it).
Yesterday I took 10mg. prozac. Three days earlier I also took 10. How long would I need to let THAT get out of my system? And can I go on remeron in between? Didn't you say I could switch directly from the remeron to MAOI?
Hildi
Posted by ross on July 29, 2002, at 10:17:47
In reply to Re: Nardil Parnate---Ross, Cybercafe,all, posted by hildi on July 29, 2002, at 10:00:00
you must wait 2 weeks between prozac and nardil due to prozac having the longest half life of the ssri's. do not play around. and you must wait 10 days between stopping remeron and starting nardil.
take the washout period very serious. serotonin syndrom can equal death!!!!
so u must choose what you are going to do and then start your washout period. it is lousy but the days go by fast.
good luck
ross
Posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 12:27:37
In reply to Re: Nardil Parnate---Ross, Cybercafe,all, posted by hildi on July 29, 2002, at 10:00:00
> I know you said to wait 10 days after stopping an SSRI before starting either one (I'm still researching which one to try) But what about after stopping Prozac?
okay you are screwed :)
lostboy mentions that you need to wait 5 weeks between your last dose of prozac and starting an MAOI ... i would suggest you 1) look it up for yourself and 2) absolutely definately ask a doc as death by hyperthermia/hyperpyrexia is not the effect you want> I have been taking low doses of paxil, zoloft, (one day paxil, another day zoloft)and I've taken 10 mg prozac twice in the last couple weeks. (yeah- I've been playing around with the SSRI's- I can't seem to figure out what to do with them. They all make me feel the same way and I don't like it).
i don't want to make a suggestion as i can't seem to find a message/remember your symptoms exactly...
.... suffice to say, prozac is probably one of the worst drugs you could be taking if you want to get on an MAOI fast> Yesterday I took 10mg. prozac. Three days earlier I also took 10. How long would I need to let THAT get out of my system? And can I go on remeron in between? Didn't you say I could switch directly from the remeron to MAOI?
i'm sure there are a few different drugs you can take with an MAOI with pretty much zero risk ... lamictal or lithium, thyroid hormone... clonazepam ... quite a few come to mind... myself i have never looked into this, so i'm sure there are many others as well...
but if you need to start an MAOI, get off the prozac immediately!
take care hildi ... the SSRI withdrawal needed be bad at all
Posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 12:40:33
In reply to Re: Nardil Parnate---Ross, Cybercafe,all, posted by ross on July 29, 2002, at 10:17:47
> you must wait 2 weeks between prozac and nardil due to prozac having the longest half life of the ssri's. do not play around. and you must wait 10 days between stopping remeron and starting nardil.
i'm pretty sure it's 5 weeks for prozac dude
most SSRIs are 2 weeks because their half lives are what... 1 day? .. whereas prozac has a half life of... 5 days? this is of course variable based on how long you have been taking it etc etc
http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr30.html
------------
In combination with certain drugs. Because the effect of many antidepressant drugs may persist for 10 to 20 days, do not commence tranylcypromine therapy within a week of discontinuing treatment with such drugs; then use half the normal dosage for the first week. Similarly, allow 1 week to4. In combination with fluoxetine: although a causal relationship has not been established, death has been reported to occur following the initiation of MAO inhibitor therapy shortly after discontinuation of fluoxetine. Therefore, tranylcypromine should not be used in combination with fluoxetine. Allow at least 5 weeks between discontinuation of fluoxetine and initiation of tranylcypromine.
------------------
it says a week, but with SSRIs i'd be waiting at least, 10 days... but again i havn't looked into this at all...> take the washout period very serious. serotonin syndrom can equal death!!!!
Agreed
We don't mean to scare you... I mean you are not scared when you are standing on the corner... but at the same time, you realize it would be
an unneccessary risk to jump out in front of a car> so u must choose what you are going to do and then start your washout period. it is lousy but the days go by fast.
i wouldn't rely solely on what anyone tells you... you should definately tell your doc every med you have taken in the last month or so (because you have been trying so many different ones) and make sure he okays it
Posted by hildi on July 29, 2002, at 13:30:24
In reply to Re: Cybercafe, are you on Nardil or Parnate?, posted by cybercafe on July 28, 2002, at 20:04:26
> I'm on Parnate...
>
> ...though I hear Nardil is better for anxiety... but because i was suffering from hypersonmia and bad depression parnate was probably better for me...You mentioned in another post that Parnate really wiped out your anxiety (?)-that makes me really interested in it. I have anxious/ agitated depression and get hypomanic/racing thoughts/ obsessive over stupid things sometimes on SSRI's, sometimes apathy from them as well. . . Although they do great things for the anxiety, unfortunatley they don't work as well on the depression.
Posted by hildi on July 29, 2002, at 13:42:06
In reply to Re: switching MAOIs---wait 5 weeks for prozac, posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 12:40:33
OK. I do take this seriously. Very much so.
5 weeks is a long time. Who was it that told me I could use Remeron inbetween- I thought it was one of you guys. I will do some checking to see what I can do in the meantime.
Hey, how about this? Take my paxil or zoloft for three weeks, then stop for two weeks until starting MAOI? This would be 5 week prozac washout period. . .But, is the combination of other drugs in my system adding to an increased washout period?
Boy, that prozac is something. I feel high, giddy. . .this med gives me mild mania- I had forgotten about that ( I took this many years ago). If I remember correctly, It does this for awhile then CRASHES and makes me feel worse than ever. The other SSRI's make me feel zoned out and tired/lazy.
Interesting. Do any of the MSOI's have these same side effects? Apathy? Mania (or mild mania for me)? Racing thoughts?
Would eithr one work well for anxiety/agitation? How about for motivation? (I have trouble with all three areas)
Holly
Posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 21:26:24
In reply to Re: Parnate? Cybercafe, posted by hildi on July 29, 2002, at 13:30:24
> You mentioned in another post that Parnate really wiped out your anxiety (?)-that makes me really interested in it. I have anxious/
Yeah I'm really surprised that it's gone... but a few others (Lostboy for example) mention that parnate works for anxiety as well..
>agitated depression and get hypomanic/racing thoughts/ obsessive over stupid things sometimes on SSRI's, sometimes apathy from them as
Yeah Paxil and Effexor had very minor effects on my anxiety.... it was kind of a let down, because pdocs were always telling me how good they were
.. never had any apathy though...
>well. . . Although they do great things for the anxiety, unfortunatley they don't work as well on the depression.
Parnate also isn't causing me to become h-mania, and that kind of sucks :)
okay i guess it's good... i mean i was becoming h-manic maybe 2 or 3 times, so i quickly took some gabapentin and went back to being mediocre
Posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 21:44:46
In reply to Re: wait 5 weeks for prozac- Ross, Cybercafe, posted by hildi on July 29, 2002, at 13:42:06
> Hey, how about this? Take my paxil or zoloft for three weeks, then stop for two weeks until starting MAOI? This would be 5 week prozac washout period. . .But, is the combination of other drugs in my system adding to an increased washout period?
it sounds good to me
> Boy, that prozac is something. I feel high, giddy. . .this med gives me mild mania- I had forgotten about that ( I took this many years ago). If I remember correctly, It does this for awhile then CRASHES and makes me feel worse than ever. The other SSRI's make me feel zoned out and tired/lazy.
perhaps if you are a natural bipolar (not necessarily medication induced) you could take a mood stabilizer to keep turn the mania into euthymia, and then stay that way
.... hmmmm... how do you know if it's the other SSRIs making you feel tired/lazy or the depression itself?
> Interesting. Do any of the MSOI's have these same side effects? Apathy? Mania (or mild mania for me)? Racing thoughts?
... parnate caused some h-mania early on, then i got rid of that with some gabapentin ... it wasn't as strong as with paxil ... or effexor..
... i have never had apathy on an AD ...i don't know the difference between racing thoughts and mania... thought they were the same thing
> Would eithr one work well for anxiety/agitation? How about for motivation? (I have trouble with all three areas)
... i find parnate works for anxiety and motivation... (it has been studied for anergic depression)... though i might need a stimulant for ADD sometime in the future... have to wait and see what parnate is like at full effect
Posted by ross on July 29, 2002, at 22:06:55
In reply to Re: switching MAOIs---wait 5 weeks for prozac, posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 12:40:33
its all different. and if scoped properly it can be done..while inpatient in hampton i was detoxed off prozac and started on nardil in 2 weeks with no ill side effects. of course i had an inpatient doctor and my vitals checked 4 QID..
prozacs half life is 72 hours. with the addition of periactin dr.s are able to cut that time in half........ dude
no one should attempt something radical like this or listen to a psycho babble board.
listen to your doctor but be educated because most of them are 15 minute med check and agreeable with what you have to say.
make up your mind and stop fooling with the ssri's because its only a matter of time before you run into a problem and end up in the ER...
good luck
ross
Posted by vince on July 29, 2002, at 23:10:31
In reply to I am the Nardil king........................, posted by ross on July 27, 2002, at 0:01:08
> there is not a drug quite like nardil. it takes a full 4 weeks before it works and all of a sudden its like zap, it kicks your ass. it energizes you. gets you out into social situations, kills any depression u may have. it quite simply works better than anything out there right now. the diet is a joke. you can eat cheese just stay away from aged chesses. i ate so much chocolate to so many things. just carry PROCARDIA 10mgs bite and swallow if you get a stiff headache that is throbbing. procardia will bring down BP very quickly so u must also be prepared for that.
> i can go on and on about Nardil but im tired and going to sleep. ask me any questions
> rossRoss, I'm thinking about starting Nardil for depression and General Anxiety Disorder. I've read hear that people use it for social phobia, but I don't know if it is as good for GAD. Do you know if it works for this?
Can you tell me if you've had a problem with any of these - sexual disfunction? weight gain? somnolence?
Vince
Posted by cybercafe on July 30, 2002, at 0:28:29
In reply to Re: I am the Nardil king........................ » ross, posted by vince on July 29, 2002, at 23:10:31
> Ross, I'm thinking about starting Nardil for depression and General Anxiety Disorder. I've read hear that people use it for social phobia, but I don't know if it is as good for GAD. Do you know if it works for this?
hmmm... i had general anxiety and social phobia, but my social phobia was definately a lot worse than GAD ... maybe that's just me though... what do you think? ...
... GAD was always with me but social phobia was only when i was around people -- and was severe enough that i could not stand it and had to be away from people... ummm... if GAD was as bad as social phobia (if that horrible feeling was with me all the time) i would have had to have immediately gone to an emergency room ..... like i mean if i were around people i would experience watering eyes, constant need to clear throat, all because of an intense terror... i just can't imagine feeling that way all the time...
so i imagine if a drug can work for social phobia it can definately work for GAD...... but then your GAD must be worse than mine if you are still looking for a med to get rid of it... cuz i think pretty much all meds worked fine on GAD for me...
... or maybe your GAD is just more treatment resistant? ...
Posted by Sheperd on July 30, 2002, at 3:29:09
In reply to I am the Nardil king........................, posted by ross on July 27, 2002, at 0:01:08
I have been taking Nardil for about 6 months and compared to all the other meds Ive taken this has worked the best.
[When I started taking 60mg the side effects were terrible. Extreme headaches(or whatever) after sleeping and getting up, seeing nothing but white, light hurt as well, dizziness. Finally, I started to drink tons of water, moved slowly, quit my nasal inhaler and it got better. I still feel the meds effects, just not as often. Also when I hit 60mg, thats when the sexual side effects worsened. Before 60 it wasnt that bad, but over time Ive gained my "strength" back. I also lost 35 pounds very quckly. Before that I had gained 70 pounds from being in a hospital and over the course of one year.]
Becuase of taking Nardil for 6 months and continued therapy with the same psychologist for over a year I have been able to go back to school and my judgment and fear of other people has gone down. I am more relaxed in public, though not very comfortable with many people in a small space. Still hard to start a friendship with either sex. Its been so long since Ive been able to actually hold a conversation, becuase I think a conversation should either be brief and straight to the point or extremely worthwhile. I am mostly afraid of the unknown, whether its friendships or responsibilty for school, work. I dont worry about tommorrow as much, now its just several months or years down the line.
This last weekend I went to a friends wedding who I hadnt seen in 10 years. I wasnt anxious, mostly excited. I didnt know anybody there except for him and his immediate family. I was able to relax though. I was happy for my friend and it was good to see his family again. I did talk with a few people. One was from Kansas and he didnt know anybody there either, instant connection without having to dig. I also talked to a girl from Houston(I live 25 minutes from downtown) who found me interesting. She noticed me when I got emotional during the wedding. She was very easy to read and I picked up several signs from her, but our conversations were off and on and I did not pursue to continue the conversations. Of course I wish I had.
Anyways, best of luck to anyone who takes Nardil. I stick to the diet like Im going to die if dont follow it exactly. I eat lots of chicken, some red meat, and sandwiches. I have been able to tolerate some chocalate, nicotine, and alcohol. Never been much of a drinker anyways, just tried to test myself a couple of times. I tend to enjoy that.
Posted by hildi on July 30, 2002, at 11:05:33
In reply to Re: wait 5 weeks for prozac- Ross, Cybercafe, posted by cybercafe on July 29, 2002, at 21:44:46
>
> perhaps if you are a natural bipolar (not necessarily medication induced) you could take a mood stabilizer to keep turn the mania into euthymia, and then stay that wayYeah, I may need to add a mood sabilizer, But Would I need one on parnate?
> .... hmmmm... how do you know if it's the other SSRIs making you feel tired/lazy or the depression itself?
Good question. I don't really know. I think I may have a combo of laziness/tired/not doing anything without the meds -but i mostly am realy jacked up when I'm med-free- (I'm already starting to feel that way again). I'm shaky, have tremors, jumping out of my skin, irritable, shallow breathing, racing and repeating thoughts, inability to concentrate, completely nervious and about ready to come unglued, restless, more . . .
> > Interesting. Do any of the MSOI's have these same side effects? Apathy? Mania (or mild mania for me)? Racing thoughts?
>
> ... parnate caused some h-mania early on, then i got rid of that with some gabapentin ... it wasn't as strong as with paxil ... or effexor..Is gabapentin similar to neurontin or lamictal?
i don't know the difference between racing thoughts and mania... thought they were the same thing
Maybe they are- I don't know much about this, all I know is how I feel
> > Would eithr one work well for anxiety/agitation? How about for motivation? (I have trouble with all three areas)
>
> ... i find parnate works for anxiety and motivation... (it has been studied for anergic depression)... though i might need a stimulant for ADD sometime in the future... have to wait and see what parnate is like at full effectThanks!
Posted by hildi on July 30, 2002, at 11:12:07
In reply to Re: switching MAOI-wait 5 weeks for prozac. hildi, posted by ross on July 29, 2002, at 22:06:55
> its all different. and if scoped properly it can be done..while inpatient in hampton i was detoxed off prozac and started on nardil in 2 weeks with no ill side effects. of course i had an inpatient doctor and my vitals checked 4 QID..
> prozacs half life is 72 hours. with the addition of periactin dr.s are able to cut that time in half........ dude
> no one should attempt something radical like this or listen to a psycho babble board.
> listen to your doctor but be educated because most of them are 15 minute med check and agreeable with what you have to say.
> make up your mind and stop fooling with the ssri's because its only a matter of time before you run into a problem and end up in the ER...
> good luck
> ross
>I'm on my way to my dr now. I am going to talk to him about this- if he agrees to try it I am going to have perscribe me some benzos for inbetween time.
- Today I am going crazy and I'm only two days w/o meds.
I am a recovering alcoholic and I thought long and hard about this benzo thing, but I am tired of feeling lke shit. I really want to give Parnate or Nardil a try and I am very determined to keep myself healthy and do this the 'right way'.If I wanted to kill myself with drugs I would have done it a long time ago-
I don't intend to play around with the SSRI's-
Thanks-
Hildi
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