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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 38. Go back in thread:
Posted by pharmer on June 20, 2002, at 20:24:49
In reply to No need to freak out...chill!, posted by Terri C. on June 20, 2002, at 9:16:31
Sorry,must of been my Effexor causing me to type such a psychotic message. chill!!!
Posted by Terri C. on June 20, 2002, at 20:58:23
In reply to Re: No need to freak out...chill!, posted by pharmer on June 20, 2002, at 20:24:49
Pharmer:
With no intention of offending you, and with many disclaimers stating just that in my previous postings, I have to wonder why you're taking my comments so personally. I apologize if I've offended you. Once again I'll say, if Effexor is working for you as it has for so many, I couldn't be happier. It was a nightmare drug for me, but, luckily, I have received a lot of support from Psycho Babble folks who appreciate knowing they are not alone and clearly understand that my intentions are honorable.
In playing devil's advocate with the Andrea Yates analogy, I guess maybe I hit some nerves. On a personal note, I thought it was interesting that she was on 450 mg of Effexor and had just been discontinued off Haldol prior to killing her children. I had similar thoughts and feelings while on this drug, and although I never acted on them, I remember how intense they were. I know now that I was experiencing side effects from the Effexor, and that was confirmed by my doctor. There are web sites that document these side effects, and they are real. They happen to some people, Pharmer, and we have a right, if not a responsibility, to share our experiences.
So, I'm chillin today, off medication, living life one day at a time. Thanks for your support. I wish you happiness and peace.
Posted by vivienneX on June 21, 2002, at 23:02:32
In reply to Peace. » pharmer, posted by Terri C. on June 20, 2002, at 20:58:23
Effexor is the only prescribable form of phencyclidine- PCP, also known as angledust. PCP causes "euphoria, disorientation, confusion, anxiety, irritability, paranoid states, and dangerously violent behavior. Hostility and belligerence can remain long after the drug is no longer measurable in the blood. Chronic users may also experience depression or a schizophreniclike state that can last months after discontinuation. as well as heart rate abnormalities, seizures and withdrawl." (encarta.msn.com)
Now, take an anti depressant made from this substance daily- do you think this is going to have any effect on a person? Most of the people I know of that have taken Effexor for a while have wound up addicted to it, which is not a usual side effect with ADs. While taking Effexor, some people I know have experienced side effects like extreme irritability, violence, deppression, even black outs. If you consider that you're taking a form of PCP, it's not all that unreasnoble to have such side effects. I consider myself very lucky to have gotten off the drug within a week of starting it.
I'm not trying to say taking Effexor is just as good as going to your nearest dealer and getting some PCP, because it's not the same thing. Obviously, the FDA wouldn't allow that. But taking such a medication would have prolonged effects on anyone, particularly someone who was already as ill as Andrea Yates.
Posted by Terri C. on June 22, 2002, at 10:59:15
In reply to Re: Effexor , PCP, and Andrea Yates, posted by vivienneX on June 21, 2002, at 23:02:32
Fascinating! Thank you for sharing your opinion and knowledge.
I didn't start this string to promote hysteria or to personally attack Effexor users; however, I am one of those unfortunate people who experienced many of the side effects you've outlined. My goal was not to determine whether the Andrea Yates case can be attributed to Effexor or not but to spark dialogue and bring attention to these side effects for ANYONE who may be experiencing them. For those people, you are not CRAZY.
Thanks again.
Posted by oracle on June 22, 2002, at 18:23:14
In reply to Re: Effexor , PCP, and Andrea Yates, posted by vivienneX on June 21, 2002, at 23:02:32
Effexor is the only prescribable form of phencyclidine- PCP,
No it is not. Not even close ! Please show me your research
to support your claims.O
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 22, 2002, at 18:34:34
In reply to Re: Effexor , PCP, and Andrea Yates, posted by oracle on June 22, 2002, at 18:23:14
*lol*
Effexor is NOT a prescribale form of PCP... it is nothing related to pcp in any way really.
get your facts straight before coming here and spouting such stuff.
nikki
Posted by Terri C. on June 24, 2002, at 10:43:09
In reply to Re: Effexor , PCP, and Andrea Yates, posted by NikkiT2 on June 22, 2002, at 18:34:34
Seems getting caught up in whether this drug is PCP or not is mute. The side effects that were outlined in that posting have been experienced by some users and are valid. Documenting and sharing experiences based on negative side effects is a crucial part of the on-going analysis of any drug, psych or not. Documenting and sharing positive experience is equally as important but seems to be the only dialogue that some successful Effexor users want to read about.
I applaude any medication that helps people and would never want to see its discontinuation off the market because of few of us have had bad experiences; however, there needs to be equal understanding and respect shown to those of us who have not had such a great experience on this medication. You certainly don't see people get so upset and lash out at people who are allergic to penicillin and experience adverse reactions to that wonder drug. Quite the contrary. Doctors have learned throughout the years that every person is different and each of us may react differently to medications. So let's continue to share our perspectives and our opinions so that we can provide critical information to the medical society...information that could lead to earlier intervention by the doctors.
Posted by oracle on June 24, 2002, at 12:02:12
In reply to PCP or PCP-like effects, posted by Terri C. on June 24, 2002, at 10:43:09
> Seems getting caught up in whether this drug is PCP or not is mute.
Huh ? Giving out false info is wrong. PCP is very dangerious. Equating Effexor with PCP might cause
a poor soul to stop their meds.I am not questioning hearing others stories, but lets keep it factual.
I am still waiting for proof that Effexor is related to PCP.
Posted by telephone on June 25, 2002, at 0:50:48
In reply to Re: PCP or PCP-like effects, posted by oracle on June 24, 2002, at 12:02:12
> Huh ? Giving out false info is wrong. PCP is very dangerious. Equating Effexor with PCP might cause
> a poor soul to stop their meds.
>
> I am not questioning hearing others stories, but lets keep it factual.
>
> I am still waiting for proof that Effexor is related to PCP.Well it's not really similar to PCP at all but it is related chemically to some other illegal drugs.
Effexor (Venlafaxine) is classed as a Phenethylamine Monoamine Reuptake Inhibitor.
A phenethylamine is a compound that is based around a certain structural skeleton (in this case the phenethylamine skeleton) and modified by chemical constituents at appropriate positions in the molecule.
Other drugs that are also classed as Phenethylamines include: mescaline, 2CB, MDMA(ectascy) and many other "designer drugs/research chemicals" currently being used/abused today (for instance 2c-t-7 which has already caused a handful of deaths in the last couple of years).
Effexor is somewhat chemically similar to these "recreational" drugs mentioned above - not to PCP.
A researcher named Alexander Shulgin has done an amazing amount of research into this class of compounds and their pharmacological effects. More information about these sorts of things can be found at www.erowid.org and www.alchemind.org
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 25, 2002, at 6:48:09
In reply to Re: PCP or PCP-like effects, posted by telephone on June 25, 2002, at 0:50:48
My Pdoc has assured me that its not a PMRI, but an SSRi / SNRI...
Can I ask where you got your information from??
Nikki
Posted by oracle on June 25, 2002, at 12:54:09
In reply to Re: PCP or PCP-like effects, posted by telephone on June 25, 2002, at 0:50:48
>> Effexor (Venlafaxine) is classed as a Phenethylamine Monoamine Reuptake Inhibitor.
> A researcher named Alexander Shulgin has done an amazing amount of research into this class of compounds and their pharmacological effects.Dr Shulgin (Shasa) would be amused at calling Effexor a Phenethylamine.
However, all the NT's are related to many of the psychedelic drugs, so where do that leave us ?
Is 5-HT bad because it is related to LSD ?This is "junk science" at its best. Tell the people that the AD's are related to the psychedelic drugs and leave out the fact that many NT's are chemically like the indole (and other) based psychedelic drugs. Of course one does not mention this as it blows the whole argument !
Psychdelic drugs work because they are chemically "close" to NT's. The same is true of
AD's, generally. These facts do nto mean on is bad or good.
Posted by LostBoyinNC1 on June 26, 2002, at 1:27:29
In reply to Effexor Dangerous? Ask Andrea Yates?, posted by Terri C. on June 19, 2002, at 10:45:51
> After watching the news media regarding the Andrea Yates story, as this is the one-year anniversary of her killing her children, I was curious as to which antidepressant she was on when she committed this horrific crime. I wasn't too surprised when I found that she was on Effexor. My own living nightmare with Effexor also happened one year ago. I experienced blackouts for periods of 24 to 48 hours, and I am still trying to clean up the mess I made during those blackouts. I'm not alleging that Effexor was the culprit causing Andrea Yates to kill her children, but I can certainly empathize more now than before I found out she was on Effexor.
>
> In my opinion, based on my own personal experience, this drug is dangerous. After my life-changing experience, I started researching this drug on the internet and found that the side effects I was experiencing had been upgraded from "rare" to "frequent." In trying to discontinue this medication, I suffered through nightmares, night sweats, electric shock-like feelings, and the list goes on and on. It took four months of gradually decreasing the dosage and finally making it through the discontinuation process. Being on this drug was horrible, but getting off it was just as bad. Being depressed was a cake-walk compared to the ups and downs of being on the wrong medication. Because of those experiences, I will NEVER use another antidepressant medication.
>
> I'm not saying that this medication doesn't work for some people. I'm not trying to discourage people from trying medications to help ease depression. I am saying that we need to be proactive in our own treatment and research the side effects. I am also suggesting that use of these medications should be followed by specialists, not just your primary doctor. MD's are not psychiatrists and should refer patients with depression/mental illness to specialists for diagnosis and treatment.
You are a very confused person. Effexor did not contribute to any murders in the Yates case. What did was severe post partum psychosis. Yate's wasnt medicated when she committed the murders.As for primary care doctors not being able to prescribe meds, thats a bunch of bunk. There are many advantages to using a primary care physician over a psychiatrist. A primary care physician will not be as likely to do the usual psychiatrist overanalyzing thing on you, which tends to lead to being overmedicated. A primary care physician will be more likely to keep things simple and not use polypharmacy...which believe it or not can be a BIG advantage in many cases of straightforward depression and anxiety. Simple is good when it comes to medication.
Now in a severe case like Yates, a psychiatrist is necessary. Actually what Yates really needed was a Neurologist, a brain science expert. But most cases of depression and anxiety can be handled adequately by family doctors and internal medicine doctors. In fact, most prescriptions for SSRIs are written by non psychiatry doctors.
Posted by LostBoyinNC1 on June 26, 2002, at 1:34:00
In reply to Re: Effexor , PCP, and Andrea Yates, posted by vivienneX on June 21, 2002, at 23:02:32
> Effexor is the only prescribable form of phencyclidine- PCP, also known as angledust.
LOL BULL!!!! I can see youve been doing some angeldust to believe the above crap.
> PCP causes "euphoria, disorientation, confusion, anxiety, irritability, paranoid states, and dangerously violent behavior. Hostility and belligerence can remain long after the drug is no longer measurable in the blood. Chronic users may also experience depression or a schizophreniclike state that can last months after discontinuation. as well as heart rate abnormalities, seizures and withdrawl." (encarta.msn.com)
> Now, take an anti depressant made from this substance daily- do you think this is going to have any effect on a person? Most of the people I know of that have taken Effexor for a while have wound up addicted to it, which is not a usual side effect with ADs. While taking Effexor, some people I know have experienced side effects like extreme irritability, violence, deppression, even black outs. If you consider that you're taking a form of PCP, it's not all that unreasnoble to have such side effects. I consider myself very lucky to have gotten off the drug within a week of starting it.
> I'm not trying to say taking Effexor is just as good as going to your nearest dealer and getting some PCP, because it's not the same thing. Obviously, the FDA wouldn't allow that. But taking such a medication would have prolonged effects on anyone, particularly someone who was already as ill as Andrea Yates.
Effexor has no similarities with PCP. PCP is a potent HALLUCINOGENIC drug, it was originally developed as a grizzly bear tranquilizer and became popular as an illegal recreational street drug in the mid seventies. It causes psychosis.Effexor is a serotonergic antidepressant and is not classified as a hallucinogenic drug like PCP is classified. Its gained a reputation as one of the best antidepressants for severe depression, although it can elevate blood pressure mildly at high dosages in some people.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 26, 2002, at 10:01:19
In reply to Re: Effexor is NOT a form of PCP!!!!, posted by LostBoyinNC1 on June 26, 2002, at 1:34:00
> You are a very confused person.
> As for primary care doctors not being able to prescribe meds, thats a bunch of bunk.
> I can see youve been doing some angeldust to believe the above crap.
Please respect the views of others, even if you think they're wrong, and don't jump to conclusions about them, post anything that they could take as accusatory, or put them down.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, or complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Terri C. on June 26, 2002, at 11:31:40
In reply to Re: Effexor Dangerous? Ask Andrea Yates?, posted by LostBoyinNC1 on June 26, 2002, at 1:27:29
Andrea Yates had been DC'd off meds just prior to these murders, and contrary to popular belief, discontinuation off psych meds can lead to radical, abnormal, irrational behaviors in some people. I'm clear on the fact that there were many, many different components to how and why Andrea Yates killed her children. For all we know, she could have truly been possessed. We know she was diagnosed with post-partum depression/psychosis. She could have been having a bad hair day for all we know. I don't even pretent to understand how or why a mother would kill her children. What I do know is that the side effects I experienced while on this medication were debilitating and horrific. I can attest to doing things while taking this drug that I've never done before and would never even think of doing today. The thoughts that went through my head and the actions I took...well, let's just say I'm still cleaning up the mess as we speak, one year later. Discontinuing this medication (FOR ME) was almost as bad as being on it.
I find it fascinating that some people are so offended by this topic, reacting almost like I'm saying they'll kill their own kids if they continue to use it! Pleeeeez!
Posted by Terri C. on June 26, 2002, at 11:34:11
In reply to Re: blocked for two weeks » LostBoyinNC1, posted by Dr. Bob on June 26, 2002, at 10:01:19
Posted by vivienneX on July 4, 2002, at 1:09:50
In reply to AMEN! (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by Terri C. on June 26, 2002, at 11:34:11
er, sorry to I misled you. I knew Effexor wasn't exactly the most... 'wholesome' anti deppresant out there. I was pretty sure it related to PCP, but i threw in my thoughts before i checked my facts... oops.
Posted by daveeffexor on October 20, 2003, at 4:21:18
In reply to Followup for Kelly and Phil, posted by Terri C. on June 19, 2002, at 21:09:04
Can someone PLEASE help me with some useful and hopefully documented information about Effexor "Blackouts" ? !!! I recently found myself in a car accident on the second day of an increase by my physician from 75m to 150m(having been on effexor almost 6 weeks total) and I completely lost about 6 hours of time!!! I smashed into 2 vehicles (totalling 1 as well as my own) and don't remember a single moment of it. I had been experiencing blurred vision and grogginess from the start but that did not seem to be of any concern to my physician.
I can be emailed at AARONnDAVE@aol.com and would greatly appreciate any help!!!
Posted by shelye on January 18, 2004, at 20:08:28
In reply to Re: Effexor Dangerous? Ask Andrea Yates?, posted by oracle on June 19, 2002, at 11:28:29
i have been taken effexor since november last night i was in a car accident they did a tox screen and i tested positive for PCP
until last night i didnt even know what it was but after reading these stories i thinks effexor is a form of prescriable PCP
Posted by jack smith on January 18, 2004, at 22:56:50
In reply to Re: Effexor Dangerous? Ask Andrea Yates? » oracle, posted by shelye on January 18, 2004, at 20:08:28
> i have been taken effexor since november last night i was in a car accident they did a tox screen and i tested positive for PCP
> until last night i didnt even know what it was but after reading these stories i thinks effexor is a form of prescriable PCP
>Uh, it is not. Perhaps the screeing was wrong. . . . The title to the post really says nothing, so I re-worded it. Effexor works for me, and I haven't killed my kids.
Posted by Simcha on January 19, 2004, at 0:51:54
In reply to Oxygen dangerous? Ask Charles Manson, posted by jack smith on January 18, 2004, at 22:56:50
Yeah, that goes for me too. I took Effexor with great results when I was on it. I don't remember hallucinating. I seemed to be able to hold down jobs while I was on it.... Nope.. Does not sound like PCP to me...
Posted by Jaynee on January 20, 2004, at 21:00:18
In reply to Re: Oxygen dangerous? Ask Charles Manson, posted by Simcha on January 19, 2004, at 0:51:54
Abrupt discontinuation of venlafaxine is not recommended due to its structural similarity to phencyclidine (PCP). If therapy with venlafaxine is > 1 week the dose should be tapered over 7-10 day to prevent a withdrawal syndrome (headache, nausea, dizziness, insomnia and nervousness).
Posted by Jaynee on January 20, 2004, at 21:13:47
In reply to Re: Effexor Dangerous? Ask Andrea Yates? » oracle, posted by shelye on January 18, 2004, at 20:08:28
Journal Article | Print Published: 12/31/2003 | Online Published: 12/03/2003
Pages: 999 - 1002 | PDF File Size: 55 KB
DOI: 10.1081/CLT-120026525
Keywords
Venlafaxine, Phencyclidine, Urine drug screen, Abbott AxSYM® immunoassayAbstract
Case report: A 13-yr-old girl overdosed on 48 × 150 mg venlafaxine (Effexor XR®). She was taking venlafaxine regularly for depression. Her only other medications included topical Benzamycin and pyridoxine 50 mg daily for acne. The Abbott AxSYM® assay was positive only for phencyclidine, but GC/MS did not confirm the presence of phencyclidine. Toxilab® identified only one substance, confirmed by GC/MS as venlafaxine. A serum sample obtained 3 h after her ingestion revealed a venlafaxine concentration of 24460 ng/mL and an O-desmethylvenlafaxine concentration of 3930 ng/mL, confirming the massive acute overdose (therapeutic range of venlafaxine and O-desmethylvenlafaxine together is 250–750 ng/mL). Urine spiked with 4.2 mg/mL of venlafaxine and 0.7 mg/mL of O-desmethylvenlafaxine was interpreted as positive with the Abbott AxSYM® fluorescent polarized immunoassay for phencyclidine (readout of 28 ng/mL). Conclusion: Venlafaxine may cause a false positive Abbott AxSYM® phencyclidine assay when present in very high concentrations. Physicians should be aware of this potential reaction when interpreting urine drug immunoassays.
Posted by Jaynee on January 20, 2004, at 21:26:39
In reply to effexor can cause a false/positive pcp result, posted by Jaynee on January 20, 2004, at 21:13:47
Venlafaxine, designated (R/S)-1-[2-(dimethylamino)-1-(4-methoxyphenyl)ethyl] cyclohexanol, is a phenethylamine derivative that is chemically unrelated to tricyclic, tetracyclic, and other antidepressants. It is the first antidepressant in a new drug class referred to as the serotonin noradrenergic reuptake inhibitors (SNaRIs) (4). Aside from possessing phenyl and cyclohexyl groups, venlafaxine bears little structural similarity to phencyclidine [1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine; see Fig. 1 ]. Given this structural dissimilarity, it is somewhat surprising that venlafaxine or any of its desmethyl metabolites would cross-react with the anti-PCP antibody used in the RapidTest device. However, other examples of unexpected interferences with immunoassays for drugs of abuse have been well documented in the literature, e.g., oxaprozin with the Emit assay for benzodiazepines (5) and efavirenz with the CEDIA test for cannabinoids (6)(7).
Posted by Hyde on February 8, 2007, at 16:48:23
In reply to Re: Followup for Kelly and Phil, posted by daveeffexor on October 20, 2003, at 4:21:18
I do not know if this has been said before, but there are times when effexor can cause a false positive result for PCP. I was just recently tested and am on 300mg of effexor and they said I tested positive for PCP so I have been doing some research.
It is only a rapid test that produces the false positives, after other tests have been taken, using the same urine sample, the results have been negative in all cases I have come across.
This is the end of the thread.
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