Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 101973

Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?

Posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 10:55:08

Zo,

A bit ago you wrote that you take 2 Ativan for sleep.

I ended up getting Ativan from my pdoc last week. The RX is 1mg tablets, take 1 or 2 for sleep. So that's 1 or 2 mg, which does not have very much effect on me. It doesn't make me drowsy, but if I can fall asleep I will sleep thru the night, which is better than Ambien.

Does anyone take more than 2 mg Ativan for sleep?

Ativan definitely works better than Temazepam, by a large margin. It makes me wonder if there is some OTHER benzo that works better than Ativan for me.

I do get a bit hung over from Ativan, groggy and lethargic and such, so I don't think I want to try Klonopin or any longer acting benzos.

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?

Posted by Mags on April 5, 2002, at 14:56:09

In reply to ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 10:55:08

hi there, I take 2 x 2 mg Ativan at bedtime..I need it to get sleepy....
Mags

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » fachad

Posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 15:02:14

In reply to ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 10:55:08

Fachad,

FINALLY, I can give you a wee bit of info/help(?) with something for a change! :-)

Just wanted to address your concern that taking a long-acting benzo like Klonopin might give you the hang-over/groggy/drowsy affect the next morning.

I have many years of experience with Klonopin, mostly taking 1mg either in am if anxiety is a problem then, or pm.

NEVER EVER, not even when I first started taking it and my body was getting adjusted to it, did taking it in the evening ever give me the hang-over effect the next morning.

However, this is only with 1 mg/night.

Also, 1mg/night NEVER EVER helped me to fall asleep.

So, you'd probably have to take >1mg/night of Klonopin at night to help you fall asleep and perhaps a dosage >1mg/night could produce a morning hang-over effect.

Hope this provides some insight.

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » Mags

Posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 16:01:24

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by Mags on April 5, 2002, at 14:56:09

Did you need 4mg Ativan right from the start, or did you have to increase it later?

> hi there, I take 2 x 2 mg Ativan at bedtime..I need it to get sleepy....
> Mags

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » Janelle

Posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 16:03:40

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » fachad, posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 15:02:14

Thanks.

You said the Klonopin does not help you sleep.

Do you feel drowsey from it?

Do you feel anything from it?

-fachad


> Fachad,
>
> FINALLY, I can give you a wee bit of info/help(?) with something for a change! :-)
>
> Just wanted to address your concern that taking a long-acting benzo like Klonopin might give you the hang-over/groggy/drowsy affect the next morning.
>
> I have many years of experience with Klonopin, mostly taking 1mg either in am if anxiety is a problem then, or pm.
>
> NEVER EVER, not even when I first started taking it and my body was getting adjusted to it, did taking it in the evening ever give me the hang-over effect the next morning.
>
> However, this is only with 1 mg/night.
>
> Also, 1mg/night NEVER EVER helped me to fall asleep.
>
> So, you'd probably have to take >1mg/night of Klonopin at night to help you fall asleep and perhaps a dosage >1mg/night could produce a morning hang-over effect.
>
> Hope this provides some insight.

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?

Posted by geno on April 5, 2002, at 16:15:05

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » Janelle, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 16:03:40

I have the pdoc book on every psyc drug. Klonopin seems not to disturb stage 3 or 4 sleep. Id say it would be the best BENZO for sleep, but not the best drug for sleep. I suspect you dont get the rem,non rem from benzos. Ambien also doesnt disturb stage 3 and 4 sleep.
remeron would be the best choice for deep sleep. On the other hand ghb puts you into rem sleep too fast. May be good for narcolepsy, or occassional use for naps, but not great for long 8hr sleep.
My best sleep came from remeron. Long sleep with pleasant dreams, once in awhile a nightmare. Dream sleep or rem sleep is when your body repairs it self, along with the neurotransmitters. So lack of good sleep, effects the neurotransmitters, thus causing depression, anxiety and such.

 

No Ambien or Remeron, Please. » geno

Posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 16:44:05

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by geno on April 5, 2002, at 16:15:05

geno wrote: Ambien also doesnt disturb stage 3 and 4 sleep

fachad replies: yeah, Ambien doesn’t disturb my stage 3 or 4 sleep, because I wake up before stage 3 or 4 can occur and be disturbed by drugs! Plus all the sleep I lose worrying about how I am going to afford next month's Ambien.

In regards to Remeron, I'm convinced it's the best sleep drug ever invented, but I gain weight real easily from meds and Remeron is known for being one of the worst about that.

So it's pretty much benzos for me, I think.

I am really interested in how Klonopin is different from other benzos.


> I have the pdoc book on every psyc drug. Klonopin seems not to disturb stage 3 or 4 sleep. Id say it would be the best BENZO for sleep, but not the best drug for sleep. I suspect you dont get the rem,non rem from benzos. Ambien also doesnt disturb stage 3 and 4 sleep.
> remeron would be the best choice for deep sleep. On the other hand ghb puts you into rem sleep too fast. May be good for narcolepsy, or occassional use for naps, but not great for long 8hr sleep.
> My best sleep came from remeron. Long sleep with pleasant dreams, once in awhile a nightmare. Dream sleep or rem sleep is when your body repairs it self, along with the neurotransmitters. So lack of good sleep, effects the neurotransmitters, thus causing depression, anxiety and such.

 

FACHAD: yay, I get to answer questions 4 U! » fachad

Posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 17:20:03

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » Janelle, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 16:03:40

It is with great pleasure that I am able to answer questions for you for a change and share some of MY experiences with you! :-)

Okay, here goes:

> You said the Klonopin does not help you sleep.

That is correct. It has NEVER helped me sleep, but remember I take *only* 1mg and it was never prescribed for sleep. It was prescribed for anxiety.

Pdoc and I experimented with me taking it before bedtime to see if would induce sleep, but no, zip, nada. Perhaps because of it's being one of the long-acting benzo's, I think it takes longer than other benzos for onset of action.

> Do you feel drowsey from it?

Nope, NOT AT ALL. I've never felt drowsy from it! Again, all I've ever taken has been 1mg - now sometimes during extreme anxiety, my pdoc has had me take 1 mg several times a day, but still no drowsiness. At most, a calming effect. Shuts down racing thoughts and feeling like I could jump out of my skin.

> Do you feel anything from it?

As I mentioned above, what I feel from it is a very SUBTLE calming effect. My pdoc and I think I'd be far more anxious, bouncing off the walls more, if I was not on this *maintenance* dose of 1mg/day of Klonopin.

Hope this helps. If you've got more questions, bring 'em on! :-)

 

Fachad: how Klonopin differs from other benzos: » fachad

Posted by Janelle on April 5, 2002, at 17:29:50

In reply to No Ambien or Remeron, Please. » geno, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 16:44:05

Fachad

Realizing that my knowledge of things psychiatric is limited (heck, I've learned much of what I know from YOU - LOL!) I will give you what I have learned about how Klonopin differs from other benzos.

I'll start by saying that my pdoc chose Klonopin over other benzos for me years ago BECAUSE she saw that I'm an anxious person even when I'm in *remission* and that my anxiety bounces off the charts when I go into depression (she classified my depression as an agitated or anxious depression).

In choosing Klonopin over other benzos, she said it was because Klonopin is slower in its activity after being taken - it builds up more gradually to its peak than other benzos. For example, it takes Klonopin a few hours (I think) before it peaks whereas Xanax and Ativan peak much sooner than this.

I also think Klonopin may be less *strong*, i.e. not hit a person as *hard* as Xanax or Ativan, but I could be wrong here. I probably am wrong!

Anywa, my pdoc wanted something that would not hit me like a ton of bricks soon after I took it and would likewise wear off quickly (like Xanax, Ativan would). She wanted something more leveling, that would remain with me all day so I wouldn't have to keep popping a pill to keep the anxiety in check. Klonopin takes care of this.

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?

Posted by Jaynee on April 5, 2002, at 20:57:49

In reply to ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 10:55:08

Hi I had always taken ativan for anxiety, when it's bad. This last anxiety ridden depression, my doc, decided to try me on (Klonopin). Oh man, I had a really bad reaction to it. I had one hell of a panic attack when I took only .25mg of the stuff. As soon as I took it I broke out into a sweat and started to shake something awful. I did manage to get about 5 hours of sleep, but felt like crap when I woke up. I love the ativan, it gives me a euphoric feeling, but doesn't last long enough. I believe Valium, gives the same euphoric feeling and lasts longer.

Everyone is different, but give me the ativan over Klonopin anyday. I will never take Klonopin again. I really have to watch myself with the ativan though, because I really like that stuff.

When I was really anxious and couldn't sleep, not even a milli-second, I would some times take 2mg to 3mg of ativan. I once took 6mg's one night, and boy did I have a memory problem the next day. I found that if I took the ativan about 1/2 hour before bed it worked best, and don't do what I did when I first tried it. I would lie in bed pop the pill and expect to be sleeping in a second. That was when I took the 6mg's, because I thought it wasn't working.

Another trick I have learned is taking Passion Flower tincture. If you take about 20 to 25 drops, 3 times a day, for awhile, you don't need as much ativan, to get the same effect, and it seems to last longer.

Good luck.

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » fachad

Posted by Mags on April 6, 2002, at 2:01:37

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » Mags, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 16:01:24

Fachad, started at 2 mg which didn't do anything for sleep, so doc upped it. I have ALWAYS, as long as I can remeber, had a hard time GETTING to sleep even when not depressed. I tend to be a night owl..start feeling better when I should be going to bed
When I was working, it was really bad...I would stay up doing household, kid stuff get to bed at 1 or 2 AM (have to get up at 6AM) and I would lie awake until 4 or 5 AM with all these thoughts of what I needed to do, could'nt get done, my schedule etc.

I don't know if Ativan would have helped then or not (never went to doctor, hoping I would get better). I have a history of BPii in my family and I figured if I ran harder and faster it wouldn't get me! I lost....

So, I am currently on disability...so I don't have to worry about work...but as you can see by the time of this message, I am still an night owl.

It takes at least an hour to feel sleepy with the Ativan and I can fight it very easily and not sleep. I guess we are all a little different when it comes to meds..I am scheduled for ECT Apr 13 'cause nuthin is workin'.

Ativan does calm me down a little (2 MG) during day if needed, usually right before kids get home from school I take one! I have triplet nine yr olds....but I don't take it regularly as I am too depressed....

Mags

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?

Posted by geno on April 6, 2002, at 18:41:53

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep? » fachad, posted by Mags on April 6, 2002, at 2:01:37

guys and gals,
Benzos will not give you the proper stages of sleep period. Remeron, is the most effective sleep drug made. Yes weight gain is aproblem, but the good sleep and well rest it gives me, i can function the next day.
Ambien may also help to but doesnt keep me down for long. i have to take 2 or 3 to get a full night sleep. I dont dream either so, its not an effective deep sleep.

geno

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sl » fachad

Posted by Zo on April 7, 2002, at 6:06:59

In reply to ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 10:55:08

The guideline is, 30 minutes for hangovers! If it doesn't clear by then, you need a different benzo. I think it's worth trying a few--each has been remarkably unique for me. Restoril (tamazepam) worked beautifully at one point, and at another was like a drink of water. Ambien and Sonata were also strangely nothing. . .(and what good is a sleeping pill, I ask you, that is *known* to last only 4 hours? Duh!)

I would give Klonopin a try, I mean it's only one night--or two or three. I can't use it, it leaves me stumbling in an ADD fog the whole next day. But it's a terrific med, and in many people, it improves cognition! Again, the amount can be hugely variable, from a chip on up.

Yes, I do take just 2 Ativan for sleep--that and Lamictal. But 2 Ativan has been my mainstay throughout many drug trials, and dose has remained stable for many years.

Generic Ativan, lorazepam, is thought to be the mildest, you might give that a try. .

Zo

 

ZO -2tabs= 2 X .05mg or 2 X 1mg or 2 X 2mg Ativan? » Zo

Posted by fachad on April 7, 2002, at 7:27:32

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sl » fachad, posted by Zo on April 7, 2002, at 6:06:59

How much are the tablets?

My pdoc gave me 1 or 2 1mg tablets, so my higtest dose is 2mg. It does'nt seem to be enough.

> The guideline is, 30 minutes for hangovers! If it doesn't clear by then, you need a different benzo. I think it's worth trying a few--each has been remarkably unique for me. Restoril (tamazepam) worked beautifully at one point, and at another was like a drink of water. Ambien and Sonata were also strangely nothing. . .(and what good is a sleeping pill, I ask you, that is *known* to last only 4 hours? Duh!)
>
> I would give Klonopin a try, I mean it's only one night--or two or three. I can't use it, it leaves me stumbling in an ADD fog the whole next day. But it's a terrific med, and in many people, it improves cognition! Again, the amount can be hugely variable, from a chip on up.
>
> Yes, I do take just 2 Ativan for sleep--that and Lamictal. But 2 Ativan has been my mainstay throughout many drug trials, and dose has remained stable for many years.
>
> Generic Ativan, lorazepam, is thought to be the mildest, you might give that a try. .
>
> Zo

 

Re: How much Ativan for Sleep? » fachad

Posted by Elizabeth on April 7, 2002, at 23:10:21

In reply to ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by fachad on April 5, 2002, at 10:55:08

I never took Ativan for sleep. I did take it in the daytime, though, and I took 2 mg at a time. I don't think that 2 mg would have been enough for me if I'd been having sleep problems. Really you just need to figure out how much you need by trial and error, though. It's different for everybody.

If Ativan lasts too long, maybe Xanax would be better???

-elizabeth

 

Xanax instead of Ativan for Sleep? » Elizabeth

Posted by fachad on April 8, 2002, at 9:26:41

In reply to Re: How much Ativan for Sleep? » fachad, posted by Elizabeth on April 7, 2002, at 23:10:21

> If Ativan lasts too long, maybe Xanax would be better???

I'd thought of that, but I'm afraid my pdoc will become upset with me if I ask for Xanax. Isn't asking for Xanax a hugely taboo thing to do?

> I never took Ativan for sleep. I did take it in the daytime, though, and I took 2 mg at a time. I don't think that 2 mg would have been enough for me if I'd been having sleep problems. Really you just need to figure out how much you need by trial and error, though. It's different for everybody.
>
> If Ativan lasts too long, maybe Xanax would be better???
>
> -elizabeth

 

Re: Xanax instead of Ativan for Sleep? » fachad

Posted by Elizabeth on April 10, 2002, at 14:16:16

In reply to Xanax instead of Ativan for Sleep? » Elizabeth, posted by fachad on April 8, 2002, at 9:26:41

> I'd thought of that, but I'm afraid my pdoc will become upset with me if I ask for Xanax. Isn't asking for Xanax a hugely taboo thing to do?

I don't think so, but some pdocs might. I've never had a problem with it, though, and I need fairly large doses (1-2 mg, on average closer to 2 than 1). (I just seem to have a natural resistance to benzos, or something. Ambien too.)

Why not just ask for "something that doesn't last as long?" Whatever you get will probably be worth a try. (You've already tried temazepam, right? That's the only benzo that I think really *isn't* worth a try -- it seems like practically everybody I've talked to about it says that it didn't do much.)

Good luck and sweet dreams!

-e

 

Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?

Posted by callie on May 16, 2002, at 9:32:59

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by Mags on April 5, 2002, at 14:56:09

I'm new to this forum but have read these messages with great interest. Remeron was great for sleep but I gained weight like crazy--ate everything that didn't eat me first--I have never experienced such an appetite. Don't let that discourage those of you who haven't tried it. Some people don't have that experience. Both Klonopin and Ativan left me feeling a bit groggy/hung over in the morning. The best thing I've found, after much trial and error, has been Xanax (I take the generic kind). I have been taking a total of 1.25 mg at night and that does the trick for me. I also take Permax because of movements in my sleep. I used to take less Xanax but that was when I was taking Serzone which also helped with sleep. Due to recent concerns re: Serzone and liver problems, I'm off that now and had to increase the Xanax. Ambien does not work for me. On Ambien, I go to sleep, but then wake up, plus, I don't get the restful sleep I need. Remember, everyone reacts differently to different medications. Don't give up until you find something that works for you. Have you had a sleep study?

 

Re: sleep meds » callie

Posted by Elizabeth on May 17, 2002, at 22:33:37

In reply to Re: ZO, ELIZABETH, ANYONE: How much Ativan for Sleep?, posted by callie on May 16, 2002, at 9:32:59

Hi, and welcome.

> Remeron was great for sleep but I gained weight like crazy--ate everything that didn't eat me first--I have never experienced such an appetite.

I didn't have that problem with Remeron, but Nardil turned me into a junk food eating beast -- I know how it feels. Out of curiosity, did you get especially hungry at night?

> Don't let that discourage those of you who haven't tried it.

"Everyone reacts differently" is one of the cardinal rules of this board -- sometimes expressed as "YMMV," meaning "your mileage may vary." Really it goes without saying, but people say it often anyway. :-)

> The best thing I've found, after much trial and error, has been Xanax (I take the generic kind). I have been taking a total of 1.25 mg at night and that does the trick for me.

You take it every night? How long have you been on it?

> I also take Permax because of movements in my sleep.

What sort of movements? RLS/PLMS?

> I used to take less Xanax but that was when I was taking Serzone which also helped with sleep.

(You probably know that Serzone augments Xanax by inhibiting its metabolism.)

> Due to recent concerns re: Serzone and liver problems, I'm off that now and had to increase the Xanax.

Did you switch to a new antidepressant?

> Ambien does not work for me. On Ambien, I go to sleep, but then wake up, plus, I don't get the restful sleep I need.

I'd be thrilled if some drug company came up with an Ambien-like drug with about twice the duration of action! But I do find that I get restful sleep on it -- it feels more "natural" than benzo- or antihistamine-induced sleep.

> Remember, everyone reacts differently to different medications. Don't give up until you find something that works for you. Have you had a sleep study?

Sleep studies aren't always indicated in insomnia; the main thing they can do for you is rule out sleep apnea. The result, interesting though it may be, seldom affects treatment choice.

-elizabeth

 

Re: ZO -2tabs= 2 X .05mg or 2 X 1mg or 2 X 2mg Ati » fachad

Posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 3:46:39

In reply to ZO -2tabs= 2 X .05mg or 2 X 1mg or 2 X 2mg Ativan? » Zo, posted by fachad on April 7, 2002, at 7:27:32

Sorry, I didn't specify--knowledgeable about meds *and* locked in my right brain. Weird combination.

2mg routinely does it for me. . .but if I'm really fried, I might take 2.5 or even 3mg.

Lately I've been cutting back a bit, though (for the first time in 15 years) because Lamictal provides such a spectacular foundation for sleep. .and the benzos do cut in to, um, Stage Four sleep?

Again, this is an example of why we are practicing an *art* here, not a science. The artful balancing of sometimes contradictory forces, in order to achieve the desired result. . .now. Just for now. What works. Not the result in some pdoc's head, or a program we think we *ought* to follow. . .but the best choice, given the workable choices, in the moment.

I can tell people what I take, and have taken. . .but always, my real advice is, use all this info to center yourself, follow closely your own experience, and get a flexible pdoc. Find a working cocktail, yes--and then expect it to change.

Zo

 

Re: sleep-Restoril

Posted by kpo2002 on May 18, 2002, at 15:56:21

In reply to Re: ZO -2tabs= 2 X .05mg or 2 X 1mg or 2 X 2mg Ati » fachad, posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 3:46:39

I have been using Restoril (temazepam) for 4 years now. My prescription say 30 mg. a night, but I get the 15 mg. capsules because sometimes I can get by with only 15 mg. and other nights I need 45 mg. I never get a hangover with it. During bad periods when I was awakening several times during the night, I opened the capsules and took what I needed to get back to sleep. It is a benzodiazepine, a sedative hypnotic. I tried oxazepam for a few weeks once and OH BOY! After about two weeks my short-term memory was fried.


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