Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 60822

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by SalArmy4me on April 23, 2001, at 0:58:41

Ecstasy use is safe--if you disregard the mountain full of scientific evidence that proves that Ecstasy causes depression:

From MEDLINE

1: Bailly D. Related Articles
[Neuropsychiatric disorders induced by MDMA ("Ecstasy")].
Encephale. 1999 Nov-Dec;25(6):595-602.
PMID: 10668603 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2: Henry JA.
Ecstasy and serotonin depletion.
Lancet. 1996 Mar 23;347(9004):833. PMID: 8622364 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3: Pennings EJ, Konijn KZ, de Wolff FA. [Clinical and toxicologic aspects of the use of Ecstasy].
Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 1998 Aug 29;142(35):1942-6. Review. Dutch.
PMID: 9856185 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4: Gerra G, Zaimovic A, Giucastro G, Maestri D, Monica C, Sartori R, Caccavari R, Delsignore R. Related Articles
Serotonergic function altered after (+/-)3,4-methylene-dioxymethamphetamine ('Ecstasy') in humans.
Int Clin Psychopharmacol. 1998 Jan;13(1):1-9.
PMID: 9988361 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

5: Liberg JP, Hovda KE, Nordby G, Jacobsen D. Related Articles
[Ecstasy--long-lasting effects]?
Tidsskr Nor Laegeforen. 1998 Nov 20;118(28):4384-
7. Norwegian.
PMID: 9889612 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

6: Schifano F, Di Furia L, Forza G, Minicuci N, Bricolo R. Related Articles
MDMA ('ecstasy') consumption in the context of polydrug abuse: a report on 150 patients.
Drug Alcohol Depend. 1998 Sep 1;52(1):85-90.
PMID: 9788011 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

7: Parrott AC, Lasky J. Related Articles
Ecstasy (MDMA) effects upon mood and cognition: before, during and after a Saturday night dance.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1998 Oct;139(3):261-8.
PMID: 9784083 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

8: Zhou FC, Tao-Cheng JH, Segu L, Patel T, Wang Y. Related Articles
Serotonin transporters affected by MDMA are located on the axons beyond the synaptic junctions: anatomical and functional evidence.
Brain Res. 1998 Sep 14;805(1-2):241-54.
PMID: 9733975 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

9: Curran HV, Travill RA. Related Articles
Mood and cognitive effects of +/-3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, 'ecstasy').
Addiction. 1997 Jul;92(7):821-31.
PMID: 9293041 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

10: Yau JL, Noble J, Seckl JR. Related Articles
Site-specific regulation of corticosteroid and serotonin receptor subtype gene expression in the rat hippocampus following 3,4-MDMA: role of corticosterone and serotonin.
Neuroscience. 1997 May;78(1):111-21.
PMID: 9135093 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

11: Miller RT, Lau SS, Monks TJ.
2,5-Bis-(glutathion-S-yl)-alpha-methyldopamine, a putative metabolite of (+/-)-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDMA), decreases brain serotonin concentrations.
Eur J Pharmacol. 1997 Apr 4;323(2-3):173-80.
PMID: 9128836 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

12: White SR, Obradovic T, Imel KM, Wheaton MJ. Related Articles
The effects of methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "Ecstasy") on monoaminergic neurotransmission in the central nervous system.
Prog Neurobiol. 1996 Aug;49(5):455-79. Review.
PMID: 8895996 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

13: Immunomodulating activity of MDMA
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2000;914:215-24.
PMID: 11085323 [PubMed}

14: Pacifici R, Zuccaro P, Shannon, M.
Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "Ecstasy").
Pediatr Emerg Care. 2000 Oct;16(5):377-80.
PMID: 11063374 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

15: Nielsen JC, Nicholson K, Pitzner-Jorgensen BL, Unden M. Related Articles
[Abuse of Ecstasy (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine). Pharmacological, neuropsychiatric and behavioral aspects].
Ugeskr Laeger. 1995 Feb 6;157(6):724-7. Review. Danish.
PMID: 7701630 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

16: McGuire PK, Cope H, Fahy TA.
Diversity of psychopathology associated with use of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine ('Ecstasy')
Br J Psychiatry. 1994 Sep;165(3):391-5.
PMID: 7994514 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

17: Riedlinger TJ, Riedlinger JE.
Psychedelic and entactogenic drugs in the exacerbation of depression.
J Psychoactive Drugs. 1994 Jan-Mar;26(1):41-55. Review.
PMID: 7913128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

18: Peroutka SJ, Newman H, Harris H.
Subjective effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine in recreational users. Neuropsychopharmacology. 1988 Dec;1(4):273-7. PMID: 2908020 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

19: Schmidt CJ, Taylor VL. Related Articles
Depression of rat brain tryptophan hydroxylase activity following the acute administration of methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA).
Biochem Pharmacol. 1987 Dec 1;36(23):4095-102.
PMID: 2891359 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

20: Steele TD, Nichols DE, Yim GK. Related Articles
Stereochemical effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) and related amphetamine derivatives on inhibition of uptake of [3H]monoamines into synaptosomes from different regions of rat brain.
Biochem Pharmacol. 1987 Jul 15;36(14):2297-303.
PMID: 2886126 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

21: Frith CH, Chang LW, Lattin DL, Walls RC, Hamm J, Doblin R.
Toxicity of methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in the dog and the rat.
Fundam Appl Toxicol. 1987 Jul;9(1):110-9.
PMID: 2887476 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

22: Gibb JW, Stone DM, Stahl DC, Hanson GR.
The effects of amphetamine-like designer drugs on monoaminergic systems in the brain.
NIDA Res Monogr. 1987;76:316-21.
PMID: 2449619 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

23: Stone DM, Stahl DC, Hanson GR, Gibb JW.
The effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) and 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) on monoaminergic systems in the rat brain.
Eur J Pharmacol. 1986 Aug 22;128(1-2):41-8.
PMID: 2875893 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

24: Schifano, F.
Human neurotoxicity of MDMA ('Ecstasy'): subjective self-reports, evidence from an Italian drug addiction centre and clinical case studies.
Neuropsychobiology. 2000;42(1):25-33. Review.
PMID: 10867553 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


--The Salvation Army Adult Rehabilitation Center Command: Changing the World One Life at a Time

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by missy77 on April 23, 2001, at 13:35:08

In reply to Ecstasy use is safe, posted by SalArmy4me on April 23, 2001, at 0:58:41

i've never read any studies, but from experience....and it could just be me...but i got about 100 times worse after taking ecstacy. i've always had depression, but i tried ecstacy twice about a year ago, and that's when my symptoms became MUCH more severe - i began cutting myself uncontrollably. my paranoia got worse, my self-esteem got worse, my mood swings got worse...it was just reeeeeally bad. i honestly haven't felt the same since. i would never touch that stuff again - i know that this probably doesn't happen to everyone, but i think that those who are vulnerable to depression really should stay away from it.

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by Adam on April 23, 2001, at 17:38:13

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by missy77 on April 23, 2001, at 13:35:08

Ecstacy (3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine, MDMA) tends to cause a temporary but severe depletion of dopamine and serotonin in dopaminergic and serotonertic neurons, respectively, in the CNS. The effect is most severe in the serotonergic neurons, where chronic use can actually cause destruction of axons, which must regrow to restore funtion to the damaged cell. This can lead to much more lasting depressive effects. It has been shown recently that chronic use of d-methamphetamine (MDMA's synthetic precursor, similar in some ways in its mechanism of action) can lead to presenescent dementia, with users in their twenties and thirties displaying loss of central domamine neurons typical of those in their fifties and sixties.

In all fairness, I think careful, limited use of Ecstacy MIGHT be reasonably safe, but chronic use is just asking for trouble. Mixing it with other drugs and then dancing all night in an overheated room is also asking for trouble. Doing it while being treated for depression may really be asking for trouble, given reasons cited above, and maybe for others, especially if you are on an MAOI: It might very well be lethal in such a combination (due to serotonin syndrome).

I've known some people who do Ex pretty regularly. One of them wound up dating a roomate of mine. I thought at first he seemed OK, but as time wore on, it became clear just how troubled this guy was. Most disturbingly, it became known to me that he was prone to violent outbursts when confronted that seemed to come from out of nowhere. The breaking point in their relationship (which should have come much sooner) was an occasion when he flipped out on her suddenly in a restaurant, spat on her, and ran out the door. When she went after him, he hit her. I don't know if this is common behavior among regular MDMA users, but I couldn't help wondering if this sort of thing was at all related to or associated with extrapyramidal symptoms caused by the chronic depletion of dopamine and serotonin, and the concomitant loss in signaling.

I feel bad for the guy (and for her, obviously). He was, as far as I could see, a fundamentally good person. He just has lost control of himself, and I don't think the future looks bright at this point. I don't know how much of it has to do with drugs, but they sure aren't helping him.

> i've never read any studies, but from experience....and it could just be me...but i got about 100 times worse after taking ecstacy. i've always had depression, but i tried ecstacy twice about a year ago, and that's when my symptoms became MUCH more severe - i began cutting myself uncontrollably. my paranoia got worse, my self-esteem got worse, my mood swings got worse...it was just reeeeeally bad. i honestly haven't felt the same since. i would never touch that stuff again - i know that this probably doesn't happen to everyone, but i think that those who are vulnerable to depression really should stay away from it.

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by stjames on April 23, 2001, at 18:31:05

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by Adam on April 23, 2001, at 17:38:13

Mixing it with other drugs and then dancing all night in an overheated room is also asking for trouble.

James here.....

This is the primary problem. XTC makes the body less able to cool itself. Hyperthermia is well known to damage neurology. Any reported deaths from XTC were due to Hyperthermia, casued by dancing all night without good hydration and cool off periods. One is really frying the brain.

James

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by stjames on April 23, 2001, at 18:33:59

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by Adam on April 23, 2001, at 17:38:13

Ecstacy (3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine, MDMA) tends to cause a temporary but severe depletion of dopamine and serotonin in dopaminergic and serotonertic neurons, respectively, in the CNS. The effect is most severe in the serotonergic neurons, where chronic use can actually cause destruction of axons, which must regrow to restore funtion to the damaged cell. This can lead to much more lasting depressive effects. It has been shown recently that chronic use of d-methamphetamine (MDMA's synthetic precursor, similar in some ways in its mechanism of action) can lead to presenescent dementia, with users in their twenties and thirties displaying loss of central domamine neurons typical of those in their fifties and sixties.

James here....

It was proven some time ago that MDMA and analogues have no effect on dopamine.

James

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by SLS on April 23, 2001, at 18:52:04

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by Adam on April 23, 2001, at 17:38:13

I submitted the following post along another thread. I think it might be relevant to this discussion. It helps supplement the citations listed by SalArmy4Me.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60853.html

I tend to agree with and Adam. His fairness, in all fairness, seems fair to me. :-)

All of his medical information is consistent with the things I have read.

I do not know anyone who uses ecstacy.


- Scott


> Ecstacy (3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine, MDMA) tends to cause a temporary but severe depletion of dopamine and serotonin in dopaminergic and serotonertic neurons, respectively, in the CNS. The effect is most severe in the serotonergic neurons, where chronic use can actually cause destruction of axons, which must regrow to restore funtion to the damaged cell. This can lead to much more lasting depressive effects. It has been shown recently that chronic use of d-methamphetamine (MDMA's synthetic precursor, similar in some ways in its mechanism of action) can lead to presenescent dementia, with users in their twenties and thirties displaying loss of central domamine neurons typical of those in their fifties and sixties.
>
> In all fairness, I think careful, limited use of Ecstacy MIGHT be reasonably safe, but chronic use is just asking for trouble. Mixing it with other drugs and then dancing all night in an overheated room is also asking for trouble. Doing it while being treated for depression may really be asking for trouble, given reasons cited above, and maybe for others, especially if you are on an MAOI: It might very well be lethal in such a combination (due to serotonin syndrome).
>
> I've known some people who do Ex pretty regularly. One of them wound up dating a roomate of mine. I thought at first he seemed OK, but as time wore on, it became clear just how troubled this guy was. Most disturbingly, it became known to me that he was prone to violent outbursts when confronted that seemed to come from out of nowhere. The breaking point in their relationship (which should have come much sooner) was an occasion when he flipped out on her suddenly in a restaurant, spat on her, and ran out the door. When she went after him, he hit her. I don't know if this is common behavior among regular MDMA users, but I couldn't help wondering if this sort of thing was at all related to or associated with extrapyramidal symptoms caused by the chronic depletion of dopamine and serotonin, and the concomitant loss in signaling.
>
> I feel bad for the guy (and for her, obviously). He was, as far as I could see, a fundamentally good person. He just has lost control of himself, and I don't think the future looks bright at this point. I don't know how much of it has to do with drugs, but they sure aren't helping him.
>
> > i've never read any studies, but from experience....and it could just be me...but i got about 100 times worse after taking ecstacy. i've always had depression, but i tried ecstacy twice about a year ago, and that's when my symptoms became MUCH more severe - i began cutting myself uncontrollably. my paranoia got worse, my self-esteem got worse, my mood swings got worse...it was just reeeeeally bad. i honestly haven't felt the same since. i would never touch that stuff again - i know that this probably doesn't happen to everyone, but i think that those who are vulnerable to depression really should stay away from it.

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by Kween on April 23, 2001, at 19:31:37

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by SLS on April 23, 2001, at 18:52:04

Hi
I started taking xtc over 2 yrs ago.At first it was only the occasional pill but 18 months ago I became a regular user due to my depression getting worse.I have been depressed for at least 6 yrs but didnt ask for help or take meds until I was admitted to hospital last year.At that time I had been clean for a month.I had been taking 3/4/5 pills on sat. nights and 1/2 friday nights and suffered blackouts,memory loss,etc. One of my doctors thinks the fact I'm now in major depression is due to my history of drug abuse but I don't think so.I do believe it didn't help but it's not the cause.I like many others found it easier to take xtc than ask for help for depression and therefore tried to suppress it and eventually when I stopped using the depression was still there.
In my opinion,xtc should NOT in any circumstances be taken with any mood stabiliser or AD.Other than that occasional use is ok as long as its not to cover up some emotional problem.

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by sar on April 23, 2001, at 19:41:17

In reply to Ecstasy use is safe, posted by SalArmy4me on April 23, 2001, at 0:58:41

Could be an iffy drug of choice for a depressed person. For 8 hours I feel fabulous, but for the next 24 I'm beset with headaches, crying jags, hopelessness, and irritation. I've rolled only a few times and will keep it that way, a special-occassion drug...the 2 regular ecstasy users I know are rather irritable people. I don't think the e made them that way, but possibly exacerbated their depression.

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe Kween

Posted by SalArmy4me on April 23, 2001, at 20:24:50

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by Kween on April 23, 2001, at 19:31:37

Your claim that "occasional {Ecstasy} use is ok as long as its not to cover up some emotional problem" is your unsupported personal belief, and just plain wrong according to those 23 studies I listed and many others. Ecstasy causes brain DAMAGE.

From http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/mdma/ecstasy020700.htm
"How long MDMA-induced brain damage persists and the long-term consequences of that damage are other questions researchers are trying to answer. Animal studies, which first documented the neurotoxic effects of the drug, suggest that the loss of serotonin neurons in humans may last for MANY years and possibly be permanent. "We now know that brain damage is still present in monkeys SEVEN years after discontinuing the drug," Dr. Ricaurte says.


 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by mikes on April 24, 2001, at 12:35:00

In reply to Ecstasy use is safe, posted by SalArmy4me on April 23, 2001, at 0:58:41

Could you please point out which of those studies shows that ecstasy causes depression? Maybe I'm missing something here. Lowered serotonin levels do not mean depression.

Also, taking an SSRI up to six hours after the ecstasy may prevent a good deal, if not all, of the neurotoxicity.

Furthermore, being on ecstasy is the best experience in the world to me. I would still use it even if it resulted in severe depression and brain damage. Hell, if I was given the options of living my life as it is now, or peaking on ecstasy for a full 24 hours and then dying, I would take the latter in a second. Maybe you shouldn't use it if it doesn't mean that much to you.

> Ecstasy use is safe--if you disregard the mountain full of scientific evidence that proves that Ecstasy causes depression:

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe mikes

Posted by Snuffy on April 24, 2001, at 15:03:12

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by mikes on April 24, 2001, at 12:35:00

"Hell, if I was given the options of living my life as it is now, or peaking on ecstasy for a full 24 hours and then dying, I would take the latter in a second".

*** Sorry to intrude on this thread (having no experience with ecstasy) but this sounds more like a cry for help rather than a convincing argument in support of ecstasy.


> Could you please point out which of those studies shows that ecstasy causes depression? Maybe I'm missing something here. Lowered serotonin levels do not mean depression.
>
> Also, taking an SSRI up to six hours after the ecstasy may prevent a good deal, if not all, of the neurotoxicity.
>
> Furthermore, being on ecstasy is the best experience in the world to me. I would still use it even if it resulted in severe depression and brain damage. Hell, if I was given the options of living my life as it is now, or peaking on ecstasy for a full 24 hours and then dying, I would take the latter in a second. Maybe you shouldn't use it if it doesn't mean that much to you.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ecstasy use is safe--if you disregard the mountain full of scientific evidence that proves that Ecstasy causes depression:

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by mikes on April 24, 2001, at 15:55:27

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe mikes, posted by Snuffy on April 24, 2001, at 15:03:12

Have you ever used ecstasy? No. Enough said.

I didn't say that because my life sucks in comparison to being on ecstasy. My everyday life is probably just as enjoyable as anyone else's.

I said it because ecstasy really is that good (for me, anyway).

> "Hell, if I was given the options of living my life as it is now, or peaking on ecstasy for a full 24 hours and then dying, I would take the latter in a second".
>
> *** Sorry to intrude on this thread (having no experience with ecstasy) but this sounds more like a cry for help rather than a convincing argument in support of ecstasy.
>
>
>
>
> > Could you please point out which of those studies shows that ecstasy causes depression? Maybe I'm missing something here. Lowered serotonin levels do not mean depression.
> >
> > Also, taking an SSRI up to six hours after the ecstasy may prevent a good deal, if not all, of the neurotoxicity.
> >
> > Furthermore, being on ecstasy is the best experience in the world to me. I would still use it even if it resulted in severe depression and brain damage. Hell, if I was given the options of living my life as it is now, or peaking on ecstasy for a full 24 hours and then dying, I would take the latter in a second. Maybe you shouldn't use it if it doesn't mean that much to you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Ecstasy use is safe--if you disregard the mountain full of scientific evidence that proves that Ecstasy causes depression:

 

Is the prob w/ Ecstasy similar to prob with stims?

Posted by PhoenixGirl on April 24, 2001, at 16:02:13

In reply to Ecstasy use is safe, posted by SalArmy4me on April 23, 2001, at 0:58:41

Ecstasy apparently causes the depletion of certain neurochemicals, causing depression. Isn't that similar to what stimulants are said to do?

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe

Posted by stjames on April 24, 2001, at 16:32:58

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by mikes on April 24, 2001, at 12:35:00

> Also, taking an SSRI up to six hours after the ecstasy may prevent a good deal, if not all, of the neurotoxicity.


Not a good idea. Only animal studies show this. Even Dr. Shilgin thinks this is a bad idea. Shilgin also says animal neurology is more apt
to suffer damage from MDMA, making animals a poor choice to draw conclusions on effects to humans.

Anyone talking about damage has not read the studies, as there are NO studies looking at long term effects. To be fair, it is hard to find perfict study subjects that just did MDMA, and nothing else, several years ago. Lots of studies show changes. No studies exist to see if changes are long term. We also do not know if these changes are good/bad or effect function. I can report for myself that after 200 + doses of MDMA, ~15 yrs ago, I have no change in function.

The whole parkinsons/movement disorder/dopamine connection to MDMA is bunk. MDMA does not effect dopamine. The press confused MDMA with the synthetic opioid MPTP (1-methyl-4-phenyl-
1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine). MPTP can appear as a contaminant from bad manufacture of a synthetic opiate, and has caused tragic neural damage to
unfortunate recipients of the contaminated black market opiate. MPTP bears no chemical relation to MDMA, and has not been associated with MDMA manufacture. MPTP kills most of the dopamine sights (receptors or producers, can't remember which)

However, I have no question that MDMA can cause short term depression is many people. COME ON PEOPLE ! It is a very strong drug and Zen tells up for every high there is a low. This short term depression was evident in many of my friends and myself.

James

 

Re: Ecstasy use is safe stjames

Posted by Adam on April 24, 2001, at 20:23:17

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by stjames on April 23, 2001, at 18:33:59

Well, as I said, methamphetamine is the one that damages the dopaminergic neurons too (while MDMA seems to be a specific damager of serotonergic neurons).

I have seen lots of stuff saying MDMA does affect the DA system, and some stuff that says it doesn't. I've read things that say DA is depleted, and some other things that say it doesn't. I'm erring on the side of caution with this one, but I do tend to wonder if the effects on DA are probably indirect. I'm not ready to rule DA out yet, though, as a player, so to speak.

The fact is MDMA does lots of stuff. I've seen some papers saying it doesn't cause serotonin release, just prevents its reuptake. It appears to bind strongly to serotonin receptors, muscarinic receptors, histamine H1 (which may be the source of its cholinergic activity), and on and on. Sometimes what its REAL mechanism of action is seems to depend on who's paper you read. The consensus view (mostly provided by anti-drug sources, I will gladly point out as a caveat) reflects, I think, some of what I said above. Since, in my oppinion, MDMA kind of sucks, I might be prone to viewing in the worst light.

You may be right, and MDMA will prove to have no effect on DA whatsoever. I myself am not ready to accept that yet. Time will tell.


>
> James here....
>
> It was proven some time ago that MDMA and analogues have no effect on dopamine.
>
> James

 

Re: Ecstasy use does cause depression

Posted by mikes on April 30, 2001, at 17:36:55

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use is safe, posted by mikes on April 24, 2001, at 12:35:00

You were right....I found a paper that discusses e-related depression.....I'll post more on it later.

> Could you please point out which of those studies shows that ecstasy causes depression? Maybe I'm missing something here. Lowered serotonin levels do not mean depression.
>
> Also, taking an SSRI up to six hours after the ecstasy may prevent a good deal, if not all, of the neurotoxicity.
>
> Furthermore, being on ecstasy is the best experience in the world to me. I would still use it even if it resulted in severe depression and brain damage. Hell, if I was given the options of living my life as it is now, or peaking on ecstasy for a full 24 hours and then dying, I would take the latter in a second. Maybe you shouldn't use it if it doesn't mean that much to you.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ecstasy use is safe--if you disregard the mountain full of scientific evidence that proves that Ecstasy causes depression:

 

MDMA + depression- Especial short term memory loss

Posted by stickboy on December 18, 2001, at 18:02:54

In reply to Re: Ecstasy use does cause depression, posted by mikes on April 30, 2001, at 17:36:55

Hi,

I'm suffering from depression caused by ecstacy.
It happened over 2 years ago and I still haven't
fully recovered.

I particularly suffer from short-term memory loss and this has meant that I was made redundant from one job and have had to resign from another.
As a graduate I'm finding this really difficult to cope with. What I mean by this is that I'm now really useless at my job (Unix admin/programmer)
mainly because I just cannot remember things. :-(

It seems that the only way that I can remember things is through repetition, and this is only for the period of time that I'm repeating things. i.e. I take a certain route to work and after a month or two I've managed to learn it, however if I moved company to somewhere else and had to learn a new route to work I'd forget the old route within weeks.....

I was wondering if anyone can help me out with this, there's quite a lot of info becoming available on the web, but most of it talks about neurotoxicity none of it talks about recovery or
anything like that... :-(

 

Re: MDMA + depression- Especial short term memory loss

Posted by stjames on December 19, 2001, at 14:30:02

In reply to MDMA + depression- Especial short term memory loss, posted by stickboy on December 18, 2001, at 18:02:54

I suspect if you treat the depression your memory will improve drastically. Depression causes a huge deficit in memory.

james

 

Re: MDMA + depression- Especial short term memory loss

Posted by stickboy on December 19, 2001, at 19:40:03

In reply to Re: MDMA + depression- Especial short term memory loss, posted by stjames on December 19, 2001, at 14:30:02

> I suspect if you treat the depression your memory will improve drastically. Depression causes a huge deficit in memory.
>
> james

Has anyone experienced anything like this?
Which of the types of ADs would be most beneficial?

It's just that I've taken a course of ADs after it initially
happened and they did help, but I soon deteriorated
when I came off them

 

Re: MDMA + depression- Especial short term memory loss stickboy

Posted by jay on December 22, 2001, at 3:17:41

In reply to Re: MDMA + depression- Especial short term memory loss, posted by stickboy on December 19, 2001, at 19:40:03

> > I suspect if you treat the depression your memory will improve drastically. Depression causes a huge deficit in memory.
> >
> > james
>
> Has anyone experienced anything like this?
> Which of the types of ADs would be most beneficial?
>
> It's just that I've taken a course of ADs after it initially
> happened and they did help, but I soon deteriorated
> when I came off them


Hi:

Well, a couple of points. One is that you should go back to the med that helped you best, and if it continues to do so, stay with it. Going on and off medication is bad in itself. Was there any med you found particular relief with, and why did you stop them? Also, there is now emerging some thought that staying on meds for life may be most effective.

If you are finding difficulties with your job, it may not just be MDMA related...it may also be you are unhappy with your job. I come across many people in this boat as a counsellor, and maybe it is time for you to have a good hard look to see if your job brings you the *true* satisfaction you want.

Anyhow just some thoughts. Get back when you can.

Best wishes...

Jay


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