Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 85766

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

atrophy of hypocampus- meds or disorder?

Posted by judy1 on December 1, 2001, at 17:43:06

Had a consult with a honcho in epilepsy- my dissociative symptoms are worsening. I heard him dictating after looking at my films, and heard this phrase. Is this med induced? I seem to remember reading about ptsd, thought I had some time for alzheimers, I'm only in my 30's. I really can't handle added stress. he wants me in hospital for more tests, NOT. If anyone has med info i would really appreciate it, if not i'll move the thread, ok? thank you- judy

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus

Posted by Elizabeth on December 2, 2001, at 14:35:33

In reply to atrophy of hypocampus- meds or disorder?, posted by judy1 on December 1, 2001, at 17:43:06

Reduced hippocampal volume is sometimes seen in people with depression. I don't know if it's associated with dissociative disorders too. But anyway, it doesn't mean you have Alzheimer's disease or some other neurodegenerative condition.

What else did the guy say?

-elizabeth

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus Elizabeth

Posted by judy1 on December 2, 2001, at 17:10:52

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by Elizabeth on December 2, 2001, at 14:35:33

Thank you for answering Elizabeth. He wants me in the hosp for video EEG telemetry- up to a week to catch any seizure activity on an EEG monitor combined with video/audio recording equipment. The whole purpose was to rule out an organic explanation for dissociation, although losing 2 days doesn't sound like a seizure. I have had grand mal seizures following auto accidents and riding accidents (head injuries) and tested normal on regular outpatient EEGs. Just heard that phrase about the hippocampus when he was dictating, got scared and probably zoned the rest out. I read something about opiates, and yes depression and ptsd. I asked for his report and I'll post when i get it. take care, judy

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus

Posted by SLS on December 3, 2001, at 9:28:52

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by Elizabeth on December 2, 2001, at 14:35:33

> Reduced hippocampal volume is sometimes seen in people with depression. I don't know if it's associated with dissociative disorders too. But anyway, it doesn't mean you have Alzheimer's disease or some other neurodegenerative condition.
>
> What else did the guy say?
>
> -elizabeth

Hi.

I was just thinking about this this morning. My hippocampus must look like a dried-up prune. Seriously. I am very dejected and demoralized over this because my memory was one of my greatest assets. Now, I find it almost impossible to assimilate details. Retaining concepts seem to be OK. I just hope that the recent studies are correct in their assertions that hippocampal volume recovers during remission of depression.


- Scott

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus SLS

Posted by judy1 on December 3, 2001, at 11:44:04

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by SLS on December 3, 2001, at 9:28:52


I know how you feel Scott- I worked as a research scientist for years before this hit, and now I can't even read the journals that had papers I co-authored. I read that AD's in rats help restore cells and also therapy (what I'm counting on). Memory is also my worst symptom. Your posts are always coherent and informative, so it probably isn't apparent to others but yeah I know... take care, judy

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus

Posted by pedr on December 3, 2001, at 13:10:11

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus SLS, posted by judy1 on December 3, 2001, at 11:44:04

Judy&Scott, I'm totally with you on the memory tip. I was a pretty damn sharp student at school and university - the first to spot mistakes, quick to learn complex concepts, very observant and with an excellent memory.

Now, after 7 years of major depression I have serious trouble understanding simple concepts and recalling even very recent material. It's gutting to go from being a sharp cookie to being slow and forgetful. Often at work [when I make it in] I feel like I'm thinking through mud or trying to wade through murky waters.

Not fun.

Keep up the posts everyone, this site is fantastic.

pedr.

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus

Posted by Ed on December 3, 2001, at 14:52:40

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by pedr on December 3, 2001, at 13:10:11

Tianeptine (Stablon-- a French antidepressant) has been shown to restore the hippocampus.

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus

Posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 18:59:32

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by Ed on December 3, 2001, at 14:52:40

> Tianeptine (Stablon-- a French antidepressant) has been shown to restore the hippocampus.

Yes, I read the abstract on that study. Tianeptine is a Serotonin reuptake enhancer. From what I remember about the study, researchers only tried that particular drug in the research. They theorize that any good antidepressant would work to restore the hippocampus.

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus manowar

Posted by judy1 on December 3, 2001, at 19:08:53

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 18:59:32

Unfortunately I can't take any AD's (they all make me manic) But I also read that therapy was nearly as effective as SSRIs- judy

 

Re: atrophy of hypocampus- meds or disorder? ?judy1

Posted by Andy123 on December 3, 2001, at 19:53:35

In reply to atrophy of hypocampus- meds or disorder?, posted by judy1 on December 1, 2001, at 17:43:06

Hiya Judy,
Phosphatidyl serine seems to reduce cortisol output, which might help the deterioration of the hippocampus. A good handfull of studies show efficacy in improving memory in folks with mild dementia (not implying that you are demented.) PS shows some efficacy as an antidepressant. See "smart drugs II." I forget the author names, but its probably the only book by that name. I use PS for reduction in stimulant induced dysphoria and memory problems with some good results. However, IF YOU HAVE EPILEPSY IT IS PROBABLY NOT A GOOD IDEA TO TAKE THIS. Cortisol reduces activity of inflammatory chemokines that probably contribute to epilepsy. Also, PS might complicate blood sugar control. And one more down side.... amounts that reduce cortisol are fairly expensive. And yet another down side to PS... it can be processed from either plant or animal sources. I can't recommend that you take pills that might be processed from cow nervous tissue. 'Solgar' processes it from plant sources.
-Andy

> Had a consult with a honcho in epilepsy- my dissociative symptoms are worsening. I heard him dictating after looking at my films, and heard this phrase. Is this med induced? I seem to remember reading about ptsd, thought I had some time for alzheimers, I'm only in my 30's. I really can't handle added stress. he wants me in hospital for more tests, NOT. If anyone has med info i would really appreciate it, if not i'll move the thread, ok? thank you- judy

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus manowar

Posted by jazzdog on December 3, 2001, at 22:48:48

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 18:59:32

> > Tianeptine (Stablon-- a French antidepressant) has been shown to restore the hippocampus.
>
> Yes, I read the abstract on that study. Tianeptine is a Serotonin reuptake enhancer. From what I remember about the study, researchers only tried that particular drug in the research. They theorize that any good antidepressant would work to restore the hippocampus.


Seratonin reuptake enhancer? Not inhibitor? I'd be interested in knowing more. I didn't realize such drugs existed.

- Jane

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus

Posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 23:11:32

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus manowar, posted by judy1 on December 3, 2001, at 19:08:53

> Unfortunately I can't take any AD's (they all make me manic) But I also read that therapy was nearly as effective as SSRIs- judy

Hi Judy,
You know,
I think that therapy can be very effective. If you looked at 100 people that have recovered from depression, I would guess that 33 of them got better with meds alone while 33 of them got better with therapy alone while 33 of them used both methods combined to get better. I really think it depends on the individual. In my case psychotherapy doesn't help.

 

Re: atrophy of hypocampus- meds or disorder? ?judy1 Andy123

Posted by judy1 on December 4, 2001, at 3:16:13

In reply to Re: atrophy of hypocampus- meds or disorder? ?judy1, posted by Andy123 on December 3, 2001, at 19:53:35

Thank you Andy- I really love to hear people getting relief from natural sources- judy

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus jazzdog

Posted by manowar on December 4, 2001, at 13:00:59

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus manowar, posted by jazzdog on December 3, 2001, at 22:48:48

> > > Tianeptine (Stablon-- a French antidepressant) has been shown to restore the hippocampus.
> >
> > Yes, I read the abstract on that study. Tianeptine is a Serotonin reuptake enhancer. From what I remember about the study, researchers only tried that particular drug in the research. They theorize that any good antidepressant would work to restore the hippocampus.
>
>
> Seratonin reuptake enhancer? Not inhibitor? I'd be interested in knowing more. I didn't realize such drugs existed.
>
> - Jane

Hi Jane,
Yea, it has the opposite effect on serotonin than the SSRIs do. It enhances the reuptake of serotonin while the SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of serotonin.

It's a French AD that can be obtained over the Internet. The literature that I have read on the drug has been all good, but of course IAS, the company that sells the drug, puts it out. The posts that I've read here haven't been too favorable. I don't think the drug is such a big deal that IAS claims it to be.

I found the study regarding tianeptine, here's the link-- http://www.tianeptine.org/tianeptine/tianeptine-stress-2.htm

Fascinating claim--
Tianeptine is supposed to have a novel effect on the hippocampus, and help overall cognitive improvement via neuronal regeneration. Fluoxetine and desipramine were also studied and did not have the same effect.

I do have a question for anyone out there. I have read that the monoamines serotonin and dopamine tend to counterbalance each other. In other words, when taking a SSRI serotonin levels are raised which decreases the levels of dopamine and NE. Any truth to this theory?
--Tim

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus manowar

Posted by Shelley on December 4, 2001, at 13:13:18

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus jazzdog, posted by manowar on December 4, 2001, at 13:00:59

I don't know about the theory but my experience with SSRIs is that they do seem to have such an effect, especially after prolonged use. I have had symptoms of Parkinsonism such as muscle rigidity, tremor and fatigue.

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus and cortisol

Posted by gilbert on December 5, 2001, at 14:01:26

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus manowar, posted by Shelley on December 4, 2001, at 13:13:18

The shrinkage was supposedly due to high levels of cortisol. Something to think about....almost all SSRI"s raise cortisol levels which would indicate a double edged sword......less depression=less shrinkage, more cortisol=more shrinkage........what's a boy to do.

Gil

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus SLS

Posted by Elizabeth on December 8, 2001, at 0:11:48

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus, posted by SLS on December 3, 2001, at 9:28:52

> I was just thinking about this this morning. My hippocampus must look like a dried-up prune.

Note I said "sometimes." I'm not sure how often. If you've had a normal MRI, your hippocampus is probably okay. Memory problems can be "functional" too.

> Seriously. I am very dejected and demoralized over this because my memory was one of my greatest assets.

I know what you mean; I feel much the same. A lot of times these days when I'm trying to read something, I end up just staring at the page blankly, reading the same sentence again and again without really being able to put it together.

-elizabeth

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus--a personal view

Posted by Noa on December 9, 2001, at 11:52:37

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus SLS, posted by Elizabeth on December 8, 2001, at 0:11:48

For myself(and this should not be taken as science; it is just my way of conceptualizing things for myself), the way I visualize my hippocampal weakness is not so much in terms of memory and learning of an intellectual type, but that my hippocampus may be weak in relation to the more reactive emotional parts of my brain like my amygdala. So, I visualize my amygdala always in gear, reacting, etc. outpowering the hippocampus's ability to process input more sensibly--hence all this emotional memory that is hard for me to verbalize or even associate with a specific, sensible memory.

I wonder if some of the functional memory problems people describe could also be related to working memory issues which I think are based largely in the prefrontal cortex. I guess some questions would be--are you having difficulty making new memories? Are you having difficulty holding concepts in working memory so you can manipulate them for problem solving? Are you having difficulty retrieving stored info?

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus--a personal view Noa

Posted by judy1 on December 14, 2001, at 18:56:58

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus--a personal view, posted by Noa on December 9, 2001, at 11:52:37

Noa,
I posted on PSB, I do have a smaller than normal left hippocampus. Is this memory related- my problem is more of a dissociative nature. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind posting your view over there? thank you- judy

 

Re: atrophy of hippocampus--a personal view judy1

Posted by Noa on December 19, 2001, at 18:31:10

In reply to Re: atrophy of hippocampus--a personal view Noa, posted by judy1 on December 14, 2001, at 18:56:58

Judy, can you point me to your PSB post? I can't find it.


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