Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 86991

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 83. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

I'm interested in getting a consultation with a psychopharmacologist who's well-known, respected, etc., who might have ideas that could help me (I've tried most conventional AD and augmentations with limited success). I'd prefer a person with a research background (since researchers are usually most likely to know about nontraditional techniques), but that's not an absolute must.

Does anyone know of any such people? I'm currently in NC and would be willing to travel within the state; I could also see someone in NYC or DC without much difficulty since I have relatives in both places.

This would be a one-time thing; the idea is to get some recommendations from someone who's well-known and well-respected to help me convince whatever doctor around here I end up seeing to try stuff that they wouldn't be willing to try otherwise.

Thanks!

-elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by sid on December 15, 2001, at 12:19:37

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

E --
I don't know if you're at all open to this, but an acupuncturist helped me a lot. Very different approach than what you've tried, but meds don't work for everyone. Acupuncture does not work for everyone either, but it works with some people who don't respond to meds (I read a reasearch article on this - will try to find the reference again if you want, although I moved to another country and it might be in a box in the basement somewhere, so I am not sure I can find it. Will try.).

I realize I am not answering your question, but since you mentionned the DC area, I immediately thought of my experience there.

DC area:
Greta McVey, Acupuncturist
She has a private practice and she also practices at the University of Maryland (on the DC metro line). Her # at UMd: 301-314-8137. Her e-mail address: mcvey@health.umd.edu. I don't have her private practice info, but that's where you'd have to go anyway.

If you try this it would not be a one time thing of course, but it would not hurt to try. Perhaps she can recommend someone in NC too. She came to acupuncture herself b/c she cured her depression with it and decided to change career afterwards. She was a life savior for me. A bit esoteric but not overboard, she respects your limits / beliefs. I am very rational myself (I do a lot of math for my job), but treatments which no one can explain how they work helped me greatly. I took a chance telling myself it could not hurt anyway, and I was pleasantly surprised.

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by spike4848 on December 15, 2001, at 12:35:58

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by sid on December 15, 2001, at 12:19:37

I have been down the columbia route ... saw Dr. Fredrick Quikten and Dr. Alexander Glassman. Both very expensive ..... and alot of stuff we spoke of was simply here in psycho-babble. I found Dr. Glassman to be a little more up to date, willing to experiment.

What I do think is amazing is my father lives in boston. He walked into McLean's hospital and Dr John Cade was siting at the front desk listening to the radio. Wow ... John Cade! He told he, "Come in tommorrow and I will fix you up"

spike

 

citation found » Elizabeth

Posted by sid on December 15, 2001, at 12:40:54

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

I found the citation. I found 22 others, but that's the one my therapist had shown me.

Allen,-John-J-B; Schnyer,-Rosa-N; Hitt,-Sabrina-K. 1998. The efficacy of acupuncture in the treatment of major depression in women. Psychological-Science. 1998 Sep; Vol 9(5): 397-401 US: Blackwell Publishers.

 

Re: acupuncture » sid

Posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 20:19:32

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by sid on December 15, 2001, at 12:19:37

> E --
> I don't know if you're at all open to this, but an acupuncturist helped me a lot. Very different approach than what you've tried, but meds don't work for everyone.

Actually, you may be surprised to hear this, but I have tried acupuncture. The guy I was seeing (this was in Cambridge) had a good reputation, and he had helped a friend with sciatic nerve pain, so I hoped he could help me with my back pain and residual depression symptoms (I was on Parnate at the time). I went for a couple of months (it's expensive, and I'm not exactly rich) but never experienced any improvement with either of my problems.

-elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC » spike4848

Posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 20:28:01

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by spike4848 on December 15, 2001, at 12:35:58

> I have been down the columbia route ... saw Dr. Fredrick Quikten and Dr. Alexander Glassman. Both very expensive ..... and alot of stuff we spoke of was simply here in psycho-babble. I found Dr. Glassman to be a little more up to date, willing to experiment.

Thank you. I'm not looking to learn things I don't already know (although I'll be happy if I do). What I need is a doctor who's willing to make some recommendations that people down here in NC (i.e., the middle of nowhere) wouldn't be willing to try just based on my word. I need recommendations from someone who the doctors down here will pay attention to. It's a one-time thing so cost isn't a big deal (within reason of course).

I lived in Boston for seven years or so, and I met some very well-known psychiatrists while I was there. There are three medical schools in the area, and the clinical and research tradition in psychiatry is unmatched -- psychopharmacology on the one hand, and psychoanalysis on the other. (I was lucky enough to have a psychiatrist who was proficient in both fields, and I saw him for four years or so.) It's also a wonderful place to live, in general. Unfortunately, I'm not in that situation anymore. I could go there to visit friends since I have several standing invitations, but getting there would be more difficult than getting to DC or NY would be. (I could stay with my sister in New York or my cousin in DC.)

-elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by Annie Z. on December 15, 2001, at 21:06:37

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

Hi Elizabeth,

I'm in the same situation in which you are. I have been depressed for a long time (15 years), and I have tried all of the standard treatments, and some non-standard and unusual treatments, as well.

I am on an excellent alternative treatment that is recommended for anyone with mental illness, in addition to some musculoskeletal pain. I have been on for more than a year, and I was able to eliminate one-third of my psychiatric drugs. In addition, the supplement cured the long-standing chronic pain I had in my arm muscles. I, still, however, am pretty disabled, but to have my arms back is a major breakthrough for me. Some positive research articles behind the drugs exist (as well as much anecdotal evidence).

Here are two articles that just appeared (December 2001) in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry:

http://www.psychiatrist.com/bipolar/popper-kaplan.pdf#page=1

http://www.psychiatrist.com/bipolar/popper-kaplan.pdf#page=4

Here is the supplement’s website: http://www.truehope.com

Please don’t be turned off by the name of the supplement’s website, “True Hope,” or it’s testimonials. This comes off as “hard-sell” sales technique to me. However, this is a non-profit organization. The group is taken seriously by some Canadian universities who were given more than $500,000 to study the medication. Now, some case studies have been published in a well-known, peer-reviewed journal, and some more formal studies are in the works, according to one of these articles.

Another treatment, I’d, perhaps, like to try is offered by the Pfeiffer Treatment Center. They are located in Naperville, IL; however, they go occasionally to Baltimore, Md. to treat patients here. I only know about them what I see in their website. This is, also, a non-profit organization. BTW, if anyone reading this post has any experience with this treatment group, please let me know.

Hope this helps. Good luck on your search.

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by svevo1922 on December 15, 2001, at 21:24:52

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

Here are two people who have been recommended to me in the past: Jack Gorman, Steven G. Wager. I don't know what their "standing" is, but I remember seeing a guide to psychotropic drugs by Gorman in a bookstore some time ago. There's something called the Castle-Connelly guide that purports to list the "best" doctors in various specialties by geographical area. I've seen it in paperback and it may also be on the Web. New York Magazine also publishes an annual issue that claims to list the "best" doctors. But they may use the Castle-Connelly listings, I don't know.

If you'd like someone with a research background, why not call the relevant departments at Columbia, NYU and other top med schools and teaching hospitals, even Bellevue. I once poked fun at Bellevue but was told it's actually a very good hospital and they see quite a range of conditions.

Instead of someone with a significant research background (which you don't insist on), wouldn't you be more interested in a clinician who sees lots of patients over time and also keeps up with the latest developments? Aren't researchers, in general, not "people-oriented?"

Last suggestion: Try to contact Andrew Solomon, author of the Noonday Demon through his publisher.
He must have a lot of contacts, or he may have listed them on a Web site.


> I'm interested in getting a consultation with a psychopharmacologist who's well-known, respected, etc., who might have ideas that could help me (I've tried most conventional AD and augmentations with limited success). I'd prefer a person with a research background (since researchers are usually most likely to know about nontraditional techniques), but that's not an absolute must.
>
> Does anyone know of any such people? I'm currently in NC and would be willing to travel within the state; I could also see someone in NYC or DC without much difficulty since I have relatives in both places.
>
> This would be a one-time thing; the idea is to get some recommendations from someone who's well-known and well-respected to help me convince whatever doctor around here I end up seeing to try stuff that they wouldn't be willing to try otherwise.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -elizabeth

 

nutritional supplements » Annie Z.

Posted by Elizabeth on December 16, 2001, at 0:09:01

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Annie Z. on December 15, 2001, at 21:06:37

Annie,

I'm skeptical of this nutritional supplement, and I'll tell you why: I couldn't find out what's in it anywhere on their web site! I admit I didn't look all that carefully, and if you happen to know the active ingredients, I'd be glad to hear them. But I want to know what I'm putting in my body, even if it's "just" a "food supplement."

-elizabeth

 

Hmmmm....

Posted by Cam W. on December 16, 2001, at 1:38:02

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Annie Z. on December 15, 2001, at 21:06:37

www.truehope.com

I have to wonder about a company who tests there product "after" they market it. That seems a little bass-ackwards from the way the science is supposed to be done. Where are the phase trials?

"Oh, it's only vitamins." Whew, that's a relief, for a minute there I thought it was a medication, silly me.

I have heard so many stories about these guys, I am not sure what to believe, anymore. The wording of a lot of the sentences in their J Clin Psychiatry article, make them sound like they are hiding something (even more so than some the usual drug company party lines that must be waded through and dissected).

I would like to hear Stahl's take on this article; how'd it get past him? I don't get it?

Also, did anyone else notice that the guy who wrote the editorial, supposedly being critical of the article, was thanked by the research group for his, "support and consultation".

Something that I am also curious about (but I usually am with any journal artical) is the time lag between first submission of the article to the journal, it's initial rejection, and finally it's acceptance. I would really like to know what was wrong with that first submission. Was it too many typos; was it unbackable statements; what?

I hope these guys (ie. Synergy) have deep pockets. The way that they are bringing there product out smells of lawsuit (the kind that professional, falling-off-a-trolley-experts bring against a company). If one person starts this vitamin, has a manic episode, and does harm to themselves (or others), what sort of defense does the company have? This scenario could be compounded by the person also stopping his/her meds for their bipolar disorder. If there is a waiver that needs to be signed to use this product, I would be extremely leery about signing it.

- Cam (who has a very uneasy feeling about this whole thing, but has no proof to refute their claims, other than common sense, and a few observations).

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by ChrisK on December 16, 2001, at 4:25:48

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

Elizabeth,

When I lived in Pinehurst, NC I spent some time in a couple of Psych wards and each recommended that I try to see someone at Duke medical. They never gave me a specific name and I moved back to NY before getting there. Each pdoc I talked to said that Duke had the best services available in the state. I assume that in all of your efforts you have tried there but I thought i would offer it up to you anyway.

Chris

> I'm interested in getting a consultation with a psychopharmacologist who's well-known, respected, etc., who might have ideas that could help me (I've tried most conventional AD and augmentations with limited success). I'd prefer a person with a research background (since researchers are usually most likely to know about nontraditional techniques), but that's not an absolute must.
>
> Does anyone know of any such people? I'm currently in NC and would be willing to travel within the state; I could also see someone in NYC or DC without much difficulty since I have relatives in both places.
>
> This would be a one-time thing; the idea is to get some recommendations from someone who's well-known and well-respected to help me convince whatever doctor around here I end up seeing to try stuff that they wouldn't be willing to try otherwise.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by SLS on December 16, 2001, at 10:53:09

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

> I'd prefer a person with a research background (since researchers are usually most likely to know about nontraditional techniques), but that's not an absolute must.

Actually, I have seen more "nontraditional" and aggressive techniques come from the doctors of PB participants than I have been offered by some of the researchers I have seen. I think some researchers can become too absorbed in the details of their own projects and not know what's going on elsewhere. When you get a name, you might want to check out their material on Medline to see where they have been focusing their attention.

I liked Pat McGrath at Columbia. He's probably still giving consultations. However, he was not taking on new patients when I saw him 1 1/2 years ago. Gabitril was one of his first suggestions to me (bipolar depression). Jeffrey Apter sent a family member to see him. McGrath should be easy to find, but if you need the particulars, you can e-mail me.

I agree that Duke would be your best bet in NC, although UNC Chapel Hill is right around the corner.

Here's a name once recommended to me: Richard H. Weisler, M.D. He was a private researcher affiliated with Duke.

- Scott

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC » ChrisK

Posted by Elizabeth on December 16, 2001, at 13:28:38

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by ChrisK on December 16, 2001, at 4:25:48

Chris --

I need specific names. I've already tried the outpatient clinic at Wake Forest (I'm in Winston-Salem, and my parents are professors at WFU), and frankly, they're in the stone ages! I'm not willing to see a random person without having any info about them first. I think my best hope is finding someone out of state (and I may just end up having to go back to Boston for this) who I can see for a consultation (i.e., just once) and then hoping that whoever I end up seeing here will pay attention to the consultant's recommendations. That's why the consultant's reputation is important.

-elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC » SLS

Posted by Elizabeth on December 16, 2001, at 13:39:51

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by SLS on December 16, 2001, at 10:53:09

> Actually, I have seen more "nontraditional" and aggressive techniques come from the doctors of PB participants than I have been offered by some of the researchers I have seen.

You have a point. The researcher I had in mind, mainly, was of course Dr. Bodkin at McLean, with whom I was very impressed. He seems to know about every novel/unconventional treatment for depression, and he keeps up to date. (I also hit it off well with him for whatever reason, and he treated me very respectfully; these days, I'm feeling like even the minimal respect that I would expect from any person is something I can no longer take for granted!) I've generally felt like I was able to connect better to the researchers I've met than to the average clinician. However, these researchers have all been Harvard folks -- I'm finding that the "culture" at different academic medical centers can vary widely. The thing I *don't* like about a lot of non-researcher clinicians is that they're often so conservative, they don't want to try *anything* unconventional. Dr. Bodkin and other Harvard researchers I've met have been compassionate as well as knowledgeable -- they're willing to try whatever it takes to get you better.

Thanks for your recommendations. I'm leaning more and more towards seeing somebody at Columbia.

-elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC » Elizabeth

Posted by Mair on December 16, 2001, at 15:21:21

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

> Elizabeth - I'm way out of my league talking about psychopharmacology, but I do know that the Sam-e proponent, Richard Brown, is at Columbia, and I think he specializes in treatment resistant depression. Obviously, his support of Sam-e indicates that he's willing to deviate from the mainstream. I wrote him once a few years ago; he was kind enough to call me on the phone to talk to me about my letter. I found him to be very accessible.

Mair

 

Re: Hmmmm....herbal/vitamin chemical use » Cam W.

Posted by jay on December 16, 2001, at 17:54:36

In reply to Hmmmm...., posted by Cam W. on December 16, 2001, at 1:38:02

> www.truehope.com
>
> I have to wonder about a company who tests there product "after" they market it. That seems a little bass-ackwards from the way the science is supposed to be done. Where are the phase trials?
>
> "Oh, it's only vitamins." Whew, that's a relief, for a minute there I thought it was a medication, silly me.
>
> I have heard so many stories about these guys, I am not sure what to believe, anymore. The wording of a lot of the sentences in their J Clin Psychiatry article, make them sound like they are hiding something (even more so than some the usual drug company party lines that must be waded through and dissected).
>
> I would like to hear Stahl's take on this article; how'd it get past him? I don't get it?
>
> Also, did anyone else notice that the guy who wrote the editorial, supposedly being critical of the article, was thanked by the research group for his, "support and consultation".
>
> Something that I am also curious about (but I usually am with any journal artical) is the time lag between first submission of the article to the journal, it's initial rejection, and finally it's acceptance. I would really like to know what was wrong with that first submission. Was it too many typos; was it unbackable statements; what?
>
> I hope these guys (ie. Synergy) have deep pockets. The way that they are bringing there product out smells of lawsuit (the kind that professional, falling-off-a-trolley-experts bring against a company). If one person starts this vitamin, has a manic episode, and does harm to themselves (or others), what sort of defense does the company have? This scenario could be compounded by the person also stopping his/her meds for their bipolar disorder. If there is a waiver that needs to be signed to use this product, I would be extremely leery about signing it.
>
> - Cam (who has a very uneasy feeling about this whole thing, but has no proof to refute their claims, other than common sense, and a few observations).


Cam:

I quite agree with you, and the 'science' surrounding vitamin/mineral and herbal supplements seems rather shaky. There is often talk of some of these therapies being successful in Europe, but many of the European studies have many holes in them, in particular replication of results. I am very suspicious when a company spends more money on marketing than it does on research.

I also don't quite understand the mechanisms of action these vitamin combos claim to work by. In fact, it's the lack of explanation that really makes me wonder. I do understand how a couple of supplements have been shown to possibly work well, one of them being the fatty-acid and fish oil supplements, and even in many of those studies, people where still on medications. For www.truehope.com, they talk about people completely getting off all medications. Dangerous, indeed.

Also, I was reading through how they talk about their users feeling as the 'wean' on to this supplement. Very scary, actually, and again dangerous, as they mention that there is a long period of "adjustment...having raw feelings exposed..". They also suggest that medication "numbs" peoples feelings, and there is some kind of ultimate salvation in "unnumbing", which seems to make as much sense talking somebody with pneumonia, and throwing them into icy waters naked. (Or inadequately dressed.)

I would say there is not only a potential for exposure to unnecessary extreme pain, there is a massive risk of suicide.

Like many, I went the route of mega-dose vitamin and herbs for a year or so *without* medication, and yes I lived to tell about it. That period in my life dragged me down moreso than any other point in my life, and it hindered in me experimenting and finding the psych medications that have helped me get my life back together.

I think you are quite right when you suggest they have some good money ready for lawsuits. Maybe they should make friends with Thomas Szaz's lawyer!

Jay

 

Re: Hmmmm....vitamin chemical use - some facts

Posted by IsoM on December 17, 2001, at 0:45:05

In reply to Re: Hmmmm....herbal/vitamin chemical use » Cam W., posted by jay on December 16, 2001, at 17:54:36

I did some checking about their supplement & found it's a multi-vitamin & mineral supplement. What I'd like to know is why "their" supplement will make someone so much better but the competitor's supplement doesn't? Just a bunch of hype.

I also like the little disclaimer that's put on at the end:
"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease."

They're very selective in who they chose to be included in their study. In questions about people with multiple food allergies, they write:
"In general, E.M. Power+TM MAY not affect those who suffer from allergies. (I capitalised the may - how ambiguous can they get?).

A person using this supplements supposed to take 16 tablets a day at a cost of $68.98 a bottle! And it doesn't even let you know how many tablets in a bottle. Cheap? I hardly think so.

Anyway, here's the list of ingredients: per 8 Capsules

Vitamin A (retinyl palmitate) 2,400 IU
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) 250 mg
Vitamin D (cholecalciferol) 400 IU
Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopheryl succinate) 100 IU
Vitamin B1 (thiamine mononitrate) 5 mg
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) 5.5 mg
Vitamin B3 (niacinamide) 25 mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride) 7 mg
Vitamin B9 (folic acid) 400 mcg
Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) 250 mcg
Vitamin H (biotin) 25 mcg
Vitamin B5 (d-calcium pantothenate) 6 mg
Calcium (calcium amino acid chelate) 550 mg
Iron (iron amino chelate) 6 mg
Phosphorous (phospherous complex) 350 mg
Iodine (from kelp) 75 mcg
Magnesium (magnesium amino acid chelate) 250 mg
Zinc (zinc amino acid chelate) 20 mg
Selenium (selenium amino acid chelate) 100 mcg
Copper (copper amino acid chelate) 3 mg
Manganese (manganese amino acid chelate) 4 mg
Chromium (chromium amino acid chelate) 250 mcg
Molybdenum (molybdenum amino acid chelate) 66 mcg
Potassium (potassium complex) 100 mg

Also:
dl-phenylalanine, glutamine, citrus bioflavonoids, grape seed, choline, inositol, ginkgo biloba, methionine, organic germanium, boron, vanadium, nickel

Other ingredients: gelatin, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, silicon dioxide

 

Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC

Posted by Bill L on December 17, 2001, at 9:46:09

In reply to psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC, posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 2001, at 12:04:05

I would look at Duke's (or UNC's) hospital web site and go to the page that shows the Department of Psychiatry's doctors. Usually these sites have a blurb on each doctor and you can see who the senior doctors or department heads are. Then you can make an appointment with one of those doctors.

I think that the advice from a top Duke doc would be as good as it gets. But if you really want to go out of state, and you want to go the orthomolecular route, you could call Dr. Robert Hedaya who is a clinician and a psychiatry professor at Georgetown University. . He has a website. You can start with http://www.wholepsych.com/HedayaBio.html and then go to his home page from there. I read his book a few years a go and he specializes in hard to treat cases. BUT, if you get the full battery of tests on your blood, saliva, hair, etc. it costs a few thousand dollars for the tests including the consultations.

According to his book, he usually does NOT replace traditional prescription antidepressants. His treatment only helps to augment your treatment.

> I'm interested in getting a consultation with a psychopharmacologist who's well-known, respected, etc., who might have ideas that could help me (I've tried most conventional AD and augmentations with limited success). I'd prefer a person with a research background (since researchers are usually most likely to know about nontraditional techniques), but that's not an absolute must.
>
> Does anyone know of any such people? I'm currently in NC and would be willing to travel within the state; I could also see someone in NYC or DC without much difficulty since I have relatives in both places.
>
> This would be a one-time thing; the idea is to get some recommendations from someone who's well-known and well-respected to help me convince whatever doctor around here I end up seeing to try stuff that they wouldn't be willing to try otherwise.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -elizabeth

 

Re:nutritional supplements » Elizabeth

Posted by Annie Z. on December 17, 2001, at 12:52:36

In reply to nutritional supplements » Annie Z., posted by Elizabeth on December 16, 2001, at 0:09:01

I agree with you. I, too, would not take just a food supplement without knowing what's in it. The information is, in fact, on their web site. Here is the web page:

http://www.truehope.com/misc%20files/ingredients_list.htm

What is missing on their web site, however, is an order page. (At least it was missing, a year ago when I decided I might order it.) You need to contact them by e-mail to ask about ordering their supplement. When you contact them, they will send you a name of an assistant to call. The assistant will answer any questions you might have. She or he has taken the supplement himself or herself, in fact. If you decide to take the product, the assistant will call you every week to help make the transition to taking the supplement easier. Also, let me know if I can answer any questions you may have. My e-mail address is jaklnn@yahoo.com.

Here is a copy of that web page:

NUTRIENT UNITS AMOUNT
Vitamin A I.U. 3333
Vita B1 Mg. 5
Vita B2 Mg. 5.5
Vita B3 - Niacin Mg. 25
Vita B6 Mg. 7
Vita B12 Mcg. 250
Vitamin C Mg. 250
Vitamin D3 I.U. 400
Vita E I.U. 100
Vita B5 Mg. 6
Folate Mcg. 400
Biotin Mcg. 25
Calcium Mg. 550
Phosphorous Mg. 350
Magnesium Mg. 250
Copper Mg. 3
Iodine Mg. 0.075
Potassium Mg. 100
Molybdenum Mg. 0.06655
Zinc Mg. 20
Chromium Mg. 0.24995
Iron Mg. 6
Manganese Mg. 4
Selenium Mg. 0.09995
Silicon Mg. 10

PROPRIETARY CNS BLEND

Nickel
Vanadium
Boron
Germanium
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Bioflavenoids
Grape Seed Extract
Inositol
Ginko Biloba
Glutamine
Choline

I wish they would give amounts of the supplements under “proprietary CNS blend.” I have called and asked them about the amounts of the proprietary substances. They will give you the amount of any one of these substances, if you have a specific need to know. They did give me the amounts of phenylalanine and ginko biloba once (which I have lost and forgotten).

 

Re:nutritional supplements

Posted by stjames on December 17, 2001, at 13:37:34

In reply to Re:nutritional supplements » Elizabeth, posted by Annie Z. on December 17, 2001, at 12:52:36

> NUTRIENT UNITS AMOUNT
> Vitamin A I.U. 3333
> Vita B1 Mg. 5
> Vita B2 Mg. 5.5
> Vita B3 - Niacin Mg. 25
> Vita B6 Mg. 7
> Vita B12 Mcg. 250
> Vitamin C Mg. 250
> Vitamin D3 I.U. 400
> Vita E I.U. 100
> Vita B5 Mg. 6
> Folate Mcg. 400
> Biotin Mcg. 25
> Calcium Mg. 550
> Phosphorous Mg. 350
> Magnesium Mg. 250
> Copper Mg. 3
> Iodine Mg. 0.075
> Potassium Mg. 100
> Molybdenum Mg. 0.06655
> Zinc Mg. 20
> Chromium Mg. 0.24995
> Iron Mg. 6
> Manganese Mg. 4
> Selenium Mg. 0.09995
> Silicon Mg. 10
>
> PROPRIETARY CNS BLEND
>
> Nickel
> Vanadium
> Boron
> Germanium
> Methionine
> Phenylalanine
> Bioflavenoids
> Grape Seed Extract
> Inositol
> Ginko Biloba
> Glutamine
> Choline
>


We have here a vitamin pill, one that any could come up with at a health food store, for far far less than what true hope is charging.

 

Re: psychopharm consultation -Mclean » Elizabeth

Posted by Chloe on December 17, 2001, at 20:20:28

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation - NYC or NC » SLS, posted by Elizabeth on December 16, 2001, at 13:39:51

Elizabeth,

Could you tell me if you know anything about a pdoc Srini Pillay at Mclean. He was one of three pdocs I was refered to at Mclean. The other two were Brad Reich and Micheal Murphy. The last two have not returned my calls. This Pillay is giving me an appointment on Wed.

But I feel strange about the whole thing. He says he can not accept insurance at the moment, he just changed job discriptions or something. He is charging $250 for a 45 min consultation. This is a quarter of a thousands dollars! It doesn't seem right to pay this amount and I will only be able to see him once, because there is no way I could pay out of pocket more than once. And I don't think one consult is going to be enough to get my mood dysregulation, depression and BPD straightened out.

I would be so damned easy to treat if I could take AP's (but I have TD issues) or I could handle mood stabilizers. But I am having terrible skin reactions. So without those two classes of meds, what's a consult going to do anyway?? But I am so desperate to see someone, I am rapid cycling, badly.

Anyway, have you heard of this guy? Does this seem right to you? I know you haven't lived here in a while. But I thought i would ask.
Good luck with your search
Chloe

> > Actually, I have seen more "nontraditional" and aggressive techniques come from the doctors of PB participants than I have been offered by some of the researchers I have seen.
>
> You have a point. The researcher I had in mind, mainly, was of course Dr. Bodkin at McLean, with whom I was very impressed. He seems to know about every novel/unconventional treatment for depression, and he keeps up to date. (I also hit it off well with him for whatever reason, and he treated me very respectfully; these days, I'm feeling like even the minimal respect that I would expect from any person is something I can no longer take for granted!) I've generally felt like I was able to connect better to the researchers I've met than to the average clinician. However, these researchers have all been Harvard folks -- I'm finding that the "culture" at different academic medical centers can vary widely. The thing I *don't* like about a lot of non-researcher clinicians is that they're often so conservative, they don't want to try *anything* unconventional. Dr. Bodkin and other Harvard researchers I've met have been compassionate as well as knowledgeable -- they're willing to try whatever it takes to get you better.
>
> Thanks for your recommendations. I'm leaning more and more towards seeing somebody at Columbia.
>
> -elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation -Mclean » Chloe

Posted by Elizabeth on December 17, 2001, at 23:47:23

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation -Mclean » Elizabeth, posted by Chloe on December 17, 2001, at 20:20:28

Chloe,

I don't know any of those people. But John Gunderson, who is a specialist in BPD, is at McLean, and I imagine he would be able to see you for a consultation or refer you to someone who'd be good to see if what you're interested in specifically is psychopharm issues relating to BPD (I don't think he's very psychopharm-oriented himself).

As for the cost, psych consults are expensive. I would expect to pay about the same at Columbia or Chicago.

So, you can't tolerate *any* mood stabilizers? There are so many of them, that's surprising. Which ones have you tried?

-elizabeth

 

Re: psychopharm consultation -Mclean » Elizabeth

Posted by Chloe on December 18, 2001, at 19:07:15

In reply to Re: psychopharm consultation -Mclean » Chloe, posted by Elizabeth on December 17, 2001, at 23:47:23

> > I don't know any of those people. But John Gunderson, who is a specialist in BPD, is at McLean, and I imagine he would be able to see you for a consultation or refer you to someone who'd be good to see if what you're interested in specifically is psychopharm issues relating to BPD (I don't think he's very psychopharm-oriented himself).

Elizabeth,
I am all too familar with the illustrious Dr. Gunderson. And no, he is not med oriented. His treatment approach is to see how enraged he can get a patient. An out of control angry patient is progress to him. Unfortunately, I know first hand. He was my evaluator at a treatment conference when I was a patient at Mclean when it was in it's hayday many many years ago. He was extremely rude, unkind and not a patient advocate. It's amazing that he is working with BPD's.

Anyway, Mclean is just a shell of what it was once was. The rolling hills and gorgeous brick buildings on the campus are mostly over grown and vacant. My unit is long closed and boarded up. Most buildings are converted to halfway and quarterway houses. No one has insurance to pay for long term impatient care anymore...Including me, anymore! I digress. I have no ties to Mclean anymore. So I am just getting referals from my therapist who is just making cold inquiries.

>
> > As for the cost, psych consults are expensive. I would expect to pay about the same at Columbia or Chicago.

I canceled my appointment for tomorrow. I can't pay $250 dollars for one session. Since I know even the smartest guy could put back on track after just one session. I have never beeen a quick fix. I need someone who can take insurance.
>
> > So, you can't tolerate *any* mood stabilizers? There are so many of them, that's surprising. Which ones have you tried?

I am very med sensitive. I only need small doses of things, since I am a small person, about #105.

I am tolerating a small amount of neurontin ok. But if I go above 400 mgs, I get increased scalp pain which is very uncomfortable. BUT this amount is doing nothing to help with my cylcing!

Tegretol (AC)-heartburn, constipation, bad taste, headache, unsteadiness, fluish, blah, unhappy

Trileptal (AC)-dry painful, burning skin/scalp, photosensitivity reaction, interrupted sleep

Topomax (AC)-eczema, painful skin and hair, extreme anxiety and angst

Lamictal (AC)-headache, insomnia, edginess, activation, actinic rash

Neurontin (AC)-pleasant tiredness, transient heartburn, mild dry skin, scalp pain over 400 mgs.

Depakote (AC)-hair loss, blah feeling, wierd dreams-This one is probably the most benign of the group, except for the hair thing of course :(

Lithium- great AD and stablization response. But, I get an INTENSE burning scalp and dry hair aftere a few weeks. The pain becomes so sharp it hurts to lie on a pillow. Even at just 300 mgs.



This is probably more information than you wanted! But I am very revved at the moment. Oh, and does Klonopin have any mood stab. qualities? I have never tried that. my pdoc is a real adovocate of valium for some reason...I take about 10 mgs a day. I wonder if K would be more stabilizing???
Thanks for listening. Any thoughts?
Chloe

 

Double Hmmmm....

Posted by Cam W. on December 18, 2001, at 23:37:25

In reply to Hmmmm...., posted by Cam W. on December 16, 2001, at 1:38:02

Re: truehope

I was surfing some of my bookmarked sites out of sheer boredom and came across this. I thought that it was rather interesting:

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Synergy/index.html

Anyone got any comments? James, I'd like your opinion (seems like someone is doing their homework).

- Cam

 

Re: Hmmmm.... » Cam W.

Posted by Annie Z. on December 19, 2001, at 7:17:42

In reply to Hmmmm...., posted by Cam W. on December 16, 2001, at 1:38:02


>I have to wonder about a company who tests there product "after" they market it. That seems a little bass-ackwards from the way the science is supposed to be done. Where are the phase trials?

There are countless studies being conducted on prescription drugs and products after they have been marketed, also. Furthermore, many prescription drugs have not had phase trials done on them either; for example, all of the products that were on the market before the phase trials were required – aspirin, for instance. Also, I believe that generic drugs, which are not exactly the same as the original, do not have phase trials done on them.

As I am sure you are aware, the supplement companies do not do phase trials of their supplements, before or after they put them on the market, because of the hundreds of millions of dollars it takes to fund these trials. Supplement companies do look at the usually abundant existing evidence for the effectiveness and non-toxicity of their products, as well as the risks that these products may pose. That’s why many supplement companies offer some excellent products that greatly ease people’s pain and suffering, and that greatly extend and enhance peoples’ lives. However, there is no question that supplement companies product can also be ineffective, as well as harmful or deadly products to some.

Prescription drug company’s medications, also, offer excellent products that have eased and extended the lives of millions. However, prescription medication has also caused great harm and countless deaths in this country. Several years ago, the American Medical Association published in their Journal of the American Medical Association, a study, the largest and most complete of its kind, which shows that more than 2 million Americans become seriously ill every year because of toxic reactions to correctly prescribed medicines taken properly, and 106,000 die from those reactions. That surprisingly high number makes prescription drug side effects at least the sixth, and perhaps even the fourth, most common cause of death in this country.

Lastly, many doctors and health professionals offer advice and services which helpful and life saving -- or ineffective, harmful and deadly. Physician and health-care mistakes are one of the major causes of death in this country -- ranks up there with the most common causes of peoples’ death, also.

I see the supplement industry in the same way I see the rest of the health industry: it can be good or bad, effective or ineffective, dangerous or benign. I wholeheartedly believe that a health consumer should closely examine any health service or product he chooses. After all, you are (usually) the only one that will suffer or die, if you make the wrong choices.

>"Oh, it's only vitamins." Whew, that's a relief, for a minute there I thought it was a medication, silly me.

I, for one, never said, “It’s only vitamins.” As I mentioned above, I happen to believe that vitamins or supplements can be as benign or dangerous as any drug. I suggest that people do research on the supplement company and on the supplements’ ingredients, and talk to their doctor before using this product.

>I have heard so many stories about these guys, I am not sure what to believe, anymore. The wording of a lot of the sentences in their J Clin Psychiatry article, make them sound like they are hiding something (even more so than some the usual drug company party lines that must be waded through and dissected).

You don’t support your contention that “they are hiding something” at all. You give no examples. It’s just a feeling (prejudice) that you have with the limited knowledge of your subject.

> I would like to hear Stahl's take on this article; how'd it get past him? I don't get it?

I don’t know what are you talking about here.

>Also, did anyone else notice that the guy who wrote the editorial, supposedly being critical of the article, was thanked by the research group for his, "support and consultation".

Doesn’t sound suspicious to me at all. Just sounds like the research group is open minded. I would thank anyone for his or her “support and consultation” who offered legitimate, thoughtful criticism of me or my work. Afterall, dealing with critiicsm is a major way people may improve.

>Something that I am also curious about (but I usually am with any journal artical) is the time lag between first submission of the article to the journal, it's initial rejection, and finally it's acceptance. I would really like to know what was wrong with that first submission. Was it too many typos; was it unbackable statements; what?

You provide no evidence at all for any lag time. Where are your dates? Where are your sources? Also, shouldn’t you at least model the behavior of which you accuse others? Your whole post consists of unbackable statements, and yet you are complaining about unbackable statements that may or may not have been in the first draft of an article that was never published. You spelled the word “article” wrong in the above paragraph, and you who used the word there for their at least twice in your post, just to name a few of your writing errors; and then you complain about typos in an unpublished first draft for which there is no evidence of even existing!

Finally, even if you did have evidence of a lag time, you haven’t convinced me that a lag time means there is something wrong with the final quality of the article.

>I hope these guys (ie. Synergy) have deep pockets. The way that they are bringing there product out smells of lawsuit (the kind that professional, falling-off-a-trolley-experts bring against a company). If one person starts this vitamin, has a manic episode, and does harm to themselves (or others), what sort of defense does the company have? This scenario could be compounded by the person also stopping his/her meds for their bipolar disorder. If there is a waiver that needs to be signed to use this product, I would be extremely leery about signing it.

Well, I hope that the prescription drug companies have deep pockets, too, (and they do), because it happens all the time that someone switches psychiatric medication, has a manic episode, and does harm to himself or others.

For your infomation, a signed waiver is not required to use the product. Certainly, there are very real risks involved in using this product, as there are in using many drugs or supplements. This non-profit organization cautions you about the risks and tries to minimize them.. The organization gives you pamphlet of a lot of important information, which you should share with your doctor, before you take the product. Also, assistants from the organization call you every week to offer you support and to answer your questions. You may even call these assistants yourself at any time.

>--Cam (who has a very uneasy feeling about this whole thing, but has no proof to refute their claims, other than common sense, and a few observations).

I certainly agree with you that you have no proof to refute their claims. However, I don’t see common sense operating here. By writing a post like this that contains no evidence to support any of your contentions, you are just spewing unexamined propaganda. You are doing a large disservice to the readers of this thread. You are modeling a behavior that is very inappropriate of a health professional, and you are leading people away from a supplement that could potentially make the quality of their life a great deal better, using nothing but emotion, prejudice, and unproved assertions.

--Annie Z.


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