Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 79162

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long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol

Posted by JulieMargolis on September 20, 2001, at 12:31:21

I've been taking 60 mg/d parnate for over 20 years, and have had 4 major depressive episodes (we've tried trycyclics, ssri's, buproprion, lithium w parnate {double the side effects but no effective difference}, edranox, but my dysthymia spirals down into depression, and we have to go back to parnate). Anyway this year, I couldn't pull out of a major depression; we tried remeron and it was no good for me. Now we're trying 60mg parnate with resperidone. I'm feeling much better, but it's only been a week. I've been on disability this year for the first time, and really want to get back to work. Has anyone had experience with parnate + resrperidol, or been on parnate for a very long time?

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol

Posted by SLS on September 20, 2001, at 17:30:45

In reply to long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol, posted by JulieMargolis on September 20, 2001, at 12:31:21

> I've been taking 60 mg/d parnate for over 20 years, and have had 4 major depressive episodes (we've tried trycyclics, ssri's, buproprion, lithium w parnate {double the side effects but no effective difference}, edranox, but my dysthymia spirals down into depression, and we have to go back to parnate). Anyway this year, I couldn't pull out of a major depression; we tried remeron and it was no good for me. Now we're trying 60mg parnate with resperidone. I'm feeling much better, but it's only been a week. I've been on disability this year for the first time, and really want to get back to work. Has anyone had experience with parnate + resrperidol, or been on parnate for a very long time?


Hi Julie.

I am only a partial responder to Parnate. However, I experienced an additional improvement when either Risperdal or Zyprexa was added.

Have you tried Nardil or Marplan?


- Scott

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol SLS

Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on September 21, 2001, at 3:09:09

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol, posted by SLS on September 20, 2001, at 17:30:45

I've wondered about Parnate and low dose Z or R.
I've taken Nardil 90mg alone (good for 2 years
but tired of sexual side effects similar that
I get with Celexa 20, or Paxil 30...etc.)
Tried all kindsastuff, liked Nardil medium 60mg
plus KLonopin 4.5 (therapeutic) for several years
then lowered to 2.5 Klonopin and found throwing in
low dose provigil 50-100 (N60+K2.5+P50-100) works
pretty well. If not for hair loss I'd up P to
100 every day, love it. Might up Nardil a bit
with P actually.

Anyhow, really curious to hear how Parnate
+ Z or R goes.

Scott - if you don't mind, how do you like
Nardil versus the Parnate + Z / R??

Anything else you like, is it for SP?

Thanks.

kregpark

http://www.socialfear.com/

> > I've been taking 60 mg/d parnate for over 20 years, and have had 4 major depressive episodes (we've tried trycyclics, ssri's, buproprion, lithium w parnate {double the side effects but no effective difference}, edranox, but my dysthymia spirals down into depression, and we have to go back to parnate). Anyway this year, I couldn't pull out of a major depression; we tried remeron and it was no good for me. Now we're trying 60mg parnate with resperidone. I'm feeling much better, but it's only been a week. I've been on disability this year for the first time, and really want to get back to work. Has anyone had experience with parnate + resrperidol, or been on parnate for a very long time?
>
>
> Hi Julie.
>
> I am only a partial responder to Parnate. However, I experienced an additional improvement when either Risperdal or Zyprexa was added.
>
> Have you tried Nardil or Marplan?
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol

Posted by Seamus2 on September 21, 2001, at 4:55:10

In reply to long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol, posted by JulieMargolis on September 20, 2001, at 12:31:21

> >Has anyone had experience with parnate + resrperidol, or been on parnate for a very long time? < <

I was on it for about six years and found the addition of armour thyroid a big improvement.

Seamus

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol

Posted by JulieMargolis on September 21, 2001, at 10:20:12

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol, posted by SLS on September 20, 2001, at 17:30:45

> > I've been taking 60 mg/d parnate for over 20 years, and have had 4 major depressive episodes (we've tried trycyclics, ssri's, buproprion, lithium w parnate {double the side effects but no effective difference}, edranox, but my dysthymia spirals down into depression, and we have to go back to parnate). Anyway this year, I couldn't pull out of a major depression; we tried remeron and it was no good for me. Now we're trying 60mg parnate with resperidone. I'm feeling much better, but it's only been a week. I've been on disability this year for the first time, and really want to get back to work. Has anyone had experience with parnate + resrperidol, or been on parnate for a very long time?
>
>
> Hi Julie.
>
> I am only a partial responder to Parnate. However, I experienced an additional improvement when either Risperdal or Zyprexa was added.
>
> Have you tried Nardil or Marplan?
>
>
> - Scott

Thanks Scott. Nardil is not very effective for me. My doctor told me that maoi type a does some crossover to type b (probably vice versa as well), and the type a (parnate) works for me best. All the other types of anti-depressants we've tried (trying to fine a safer medicine that was at least as effective) have not been successful, and I've alays been 'compliant' with the restrictions. What dosage of resperidol did you find most effective, what kind of side-effects and / or restrictions did you face, both getting to using it and after your system settled down with it? Thanks for your response. JM

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol JulieMargolis

Posted by Michael K on September 23, 2001, at 15:30:05

In reply to long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol, posted by JulieMargolis on September 20, 2001, at 12:31:21

> I've been taking 60 mg/d parnate for over 20 years, and have had 4 major depressive episodes (we've tried trycyclics, ssri's, buproprion, lithium w parnate {double the side effects but no effective difference}, edranox, but my dysthymia spirals down into depression, and we have to go back to parnate). Anyway this year, I couldn't pull out of a major depression; we tried remeron and it was no good for me. Now we're trying 60mg parnate with resperidone. I'm feeling much better, but it's only been a week. I've been on disability this year for the first time, and really want to get back to work. Has anyone had experience with parnate + resrperidol, or been on parnate for a very long time?

Julie,
I've never been on resperidone with Parnate, but I've taken Parnate for most of the past 13 years at dosages from 40 to 70mg. When I first experienced some poop out, I tried thyroid medicine and then, lithium. Neither of them worked. I started adding ritalin in January of this year and that really helps. After a recent consult with a "pharmacological guru", I just increased the Parnate to 80mg with the go ahead to go up to 120mg, if necessary. I hope the resperidone works for you. It sounds like something I should try.

Michael

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol Michael K

Posted by Ant-Rock on September 25, 2001, at 14:11:19

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol JulieMargolis, posted by Michael K on September 23, 2001, at 15:30:05


> Julie,
> I've never been on resperidone with Parnate, but I've taken Parnate for most of the past 13 years at dosages from 40 to 70mg. When I first experienced some poop out, I tried thyroid medicine and then, lithium. Neither of them worked. I started adding ritalin in January of this year and that really helps. After a recent consult with a "pharmacological guru", I just increased the Parnate to 80mg with the go ahead to go up to 120mg, if necessary. I hope the resperidone works for you. It sounds like something I should try.
>
> Michael

Hi Michael,
I too have been on and off parnate for many years. I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.
Do you experience a tremendous crash in the afternoon hours, where you just "have" to sleep?
If so , how do you counter this?
Also, it concern me that each time I return to this med, I need a higher and higher dose, and it works less and less. I mean, Cocaine is similar in this respect, (I know this not from personal experience).
Also, have you noticed any hair-loss from parnate?

Thanks Michael for any info you could provide me with.

Anthony

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol kregpark@yahoo.com

Posted by SLS on September 25, 2001, at 17:03:20

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol SLS, posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on September 21, 2001, at 3:09:09

Hi KregPark.


I'm sorry for not responding to your post sooner. I guess I just got
distracted.


> I've wondered about Parnate and low dose Z or R.
> I've taken Nardil 90mg alone (good for 2 years
> but tired of sexual side effects similar that
> I get with Celexa 20, or Paxil 30...etc.)
> Tried all kindsastuff, liked Nardil medium 60mg
> plus KLonopin 4.5 (therapeutic) for several years
> then lowered to 2.5 Klonopin and found throwing in
> low dose provigil 50-100 (N60+K2.5+P50-100) works
> pretty well. If not for hair loss I'd up P to
> 100 every day, love it. Might up Nardil a bit
> with P actually.

Do you mean to tell me that you plan to mix Nardil + Parnate?!

I've heard of this being done by two posters here (I don't think you were one of them), but I didn't feel that I could rely on their accounts. Have you ever combined these drugs before? What dosages did you use? I've brought this idea up with two of my previous doctors, but they were not willing to entertain the idea.

For me, both Risperdal and Zyprexa produced a significant improvement very briefly while I was taking Parnate 80mg (along with Lamictal 300mg and desipramine 300mg). It felt pretty good at first. After a few weeks, though, I began to feel very spacy and lost most of the improvement. However, I am extremely refractory to treatment, and don't make a good example of a drug's potential to produce results.

> Anything else you like, is it for SP?


> Anyhow, really curious to hear how Parnate
> + Z or R goes.

I think both Risperdal and Zyprexa are worth considering. They definitely work as adjunctive medication in the treatment of depression. I can't commit to saying that either would be equally effective for SP because I don't recall reading about anyone who has tried it. Risperdal can sometimes be activating or produce anxiety early in treatment. Zyprexa is less likely to do this, and my gut feeling is that it would be a better choice for someone having social anxiety. I know someone who was refractory to treatment (depression) for many years who is now back to work as the result of the improvements produced from adding Risperdal to her antidepressant treatment.

> Scott - if you don't mind, how do you like
> Nardil versus the Parnate + Z / R??

I think it is perfectly reasonable to opt for trying Parnate + Zyprexa in an effort to find an effective treatment that doesn't affect you sexually. If P + Z works well, and weight gain becomes a problem, I would switch from Zyprexa to Geodon to see if it is equally effective. However, I think it makes sense to try Zyprexa first. It's a more proven product. I think the bulk of the weight-gain produced by Zyprexa involves an increased intake of calories due to increased appetite rather than a metabolic effect, even though the drug can wreak havoc with glucose/insulin dynamics in some people.

If Nardil worked so well for you, you may not have any better choice than to return to it. Even though Nardil gets the headlines for SP - and deservedly so - I was told that some people responded equally well with Parnate. I don't know enough about social anxiety disorders to offer you good advice.


As far as SP is concerned, have you tried adding Neurontin to your recipe?


- Scott

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol SLS

Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on September 26, 2001, at 2:46:49

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol kregpark@yahoo.com, posted by SLS on September 25, 2001, at 17:03:20

Hi Scott: Thanks for reply, I cut pieces just
because it's 12:30am and I have to sleep soon ...

If not for hair loss I'd up P to 100 every day, love it.
> Do you mean to tell me that you plan to mix Nardil + Parnate?!
Sorry for the cursory abbrevation. P if for
Provigil, which I take 50-100mg + Nardil 60mg + Klonopin 2.5-2.75mg
I did just notice the comment few posts back about Parnate
and hair loss!! I've taken Parnate: I don't seem
to get hair loss from any MAOI's, but Provigil and Wellbutrin
nail my hair - which I really don't like because they
both go *real* well with nardil 60mg + klonopin 2.5-2.75mg for me
(either Provigil and/or Wellbutrin in *very* low dose)
Provigil 50-100mg like I take now or Wellbutrin 25mg/day or even less.
I stopped Wellbutrin because it was worse with the hair loss.
Plus I take propecia for hair loss many years now so what a pickle!
My SP treatment works better without propecia,
but the hair goes. (my sex drive goes real high and I am high
energy all the time etc, everything seems almost totally normal
from a pre-drug state of "very severe" social anxiety.

Hair + good treatment or no hair + great? So far I've
kept the hair. Maybe should go baldy?? :)

Have you ever combined these drugs before? What dosages did you use? I've brought this idea up with two of my previous doctors, but they were not willing to entertain the idea.
No - it has never been reported to my knowledge. 3 reported cases of
eldepryl + parnate are on record - 2 leading to severe hypotension.
>
I once added very low Zyprexa (2mg) to Nardil 60 + Klonopin 4.5. As I thought I quickly got very sedated. I then added 150 Wellbutrin. God I felt so awesome, energetic and social. I remember going to the gym and talking to people (girls and guys alike) whenever I felt like it.
Dexedrine (which I flushed down the toilet because I was up all night and depressed next day) was in
retrospect also great augment. The whole day with my girlfriend we were out and around and I was so animated and sociable.
The only reason I tried it was to be prosexual. Well it increased libido and delay both. So kind of a tie there.
My side effects currently are mild and reversible if desired prn.
However, there are some but if I stop finasteride (propecia) there are *no*
sexual side effects. I know because I've tried it. It takes a few days off
propecia. 4 to be exact. But I already notice hair receding.
I shouldn't complain I have this tendency to not be satisfied with things in general.
I think it may be the most important thing I need to work on at this point.

My most amazing effects have lasted short term during changes. I notice the Parnate and Lamictal. The latter is one of few I've not tried and would have already if not for the rash and (possibly hair loss?) which I am concered about. I like the dopaminergic sounding profile of lamictal.
> For me, both Risperdal and Zyprexa produced a significant improvement very briefly while I was taking Parnate 80mg (along with Lamictal 300mg and desipramine 300mg). It felt pretty good at first. After a few weeks, though, I began to feel very spacy and lost most of the improvement. However, I am extremely refractory to treatment, and don't make a good example of a drug's potential to produce results.

Yes indeed. I liked neurontin in some respects but I found that it had some sexual side effects.
Also was sedating and sort of made me out of it. Klonopin seems better on all accounts except is prosexual at least for libido and inhibition.
Neurotin was particularly disappointing for me in that it seemed to blunt augmented dopaminergics (ie; wellbutrin).
For this reason I could see it being a great med for mood stabalizing, but since I want dopamine boost it seemed very unproductive.
Still, very relaxing and feel good type med, and I used it while tapering down Klonopin rapidly after 3 years of 4.5mg to my current 2.5. Was very
helpful there, where I cut down 1.0mg per week. Serzone also helped. In fact going down was not very difficult at all, even that rapidly after
long term high dose klonopin, using those 2 meds adjuncted.
> As far as SP is concerned, have you tried adding Neurontin to your recipe?
>
Sorry - went on long time.
kregpark@yahoo.com
http://www.socialfear.com/

>
> - Scott

 

Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol Ant-Rock

Posted by Michael K on September 26, 2001, at 17:43:18

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol Michael K, posted by Ant-Rock on September 25, 2001, at 14:11:19

>
> > Julie,
> > I've never been on resperidone with Parnate, but I've taken Parnate for most of the past 13 years at dosages from 40 to 70mg. When I first experienced some poop out, I tried thyroid medicine and then, lithium. Neither of them worked. I started adding ritalin in January of this year and that really helps. After a recent consult with a "pharmacological guru", I just increased the Parnate to 80mg with the go ahead to go up to 120mg, if necessary. I hope the resperidone works for you. It sounds like something I should try.
> >
> > Michael
>
> Hi Michael,
> I too have been on and off parnate for many years. I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.
> Do you experience a tremendous crash in the afternoon hours, where you just "have" to sleep?
> If so , how do you counter this?
> Also, it concern me that each time I return to this med, I need a higher and higher dose, and it works less and less. I mean, Cocaine is similar in this respect, (I know this not from personal experience).
> Also, have you noticed any hair-loss from parnate?
>
> Thanks Michael for any info you could provide me with.
>
> Anthony

Anthony,
I don't have any problems with afternoon crashes. It may be because I take my 2nd dose of Parnate in the afternoon. It usually energizes me somewhat.

I have had the same problem as you when I've gone off Parnate and come back on. I'm not sure why that is, but I just increased it from 70 to 80mg and I don't think it's having any effect, yet.

As far as hair loss, I don't think I've experienced any as a result of the Parnate. My hair has been thinning very gradually over the years, but it started well before I started Parnate. If I thought Parnate was causing it, I'm sure I would try something else.

I hope this helps.

Michael

 

Re: long term use of parnate ... Michael K

Posted by Ant-Rock on September 27, 2001, at 8:50:36

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate parnate w resperidol Ant-Rock, posted by Michael K on September 26, 2001, at 17:43:18

> >
> > > Julie,
> > > I've never been on resperidone with Parnate, but I've taken Parnate for most of the past 13 years at dosages from 40 to 70mg. When I first experienced some poop out, I tried thyroid medicine and then, lithium. Neither of them worked. I started adding ritalin in January of this year and that really helps. After a recent consult with a "pharmacological guru", I just increased the Parnate to 80mg with the go ahead to go up to 120mg, if necessary. I hope the resperidone works for you. It sounds like something I should try.
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> > Hi Michael,
> > I too have been on and off parnate for many years. I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.
> > Do you experience a tremendous crash in the afternoon hours, where you just "have" to sleep?
> > If so , how do you counter this?
> > Also, it concern me that each time I return to this med, I need a higher and higher dose, and it works less and less. I mean, Cocaine is similar in this respect, (I know this not from personal experience).
> > Also, have you noticed any hair-loss from parnate?
> >
> > Thanks Michael for any info you could provide me with.
> >
> > Anthony
>
> Anthony,
> I don't have any problems with afternoon crashes. It may be because I take my 2nd dose of Parnate in the afternoon. It usually energizes me somewhat.
>
> I have had the same problem as you when I've gone off Parnate and come back on. I'm not sure why that is, but I just increased it from 70 to 80mg and I don't think it's having any effect, yet.
>
> As far as hair loss, I don't think I've experienced any as a result of the Parnate. My hair has been thinning very gradually over the years, but it started well before I started Parnate. If I thought Parnate was causing it, I'm sure I would try something else.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Michael

Thanks for the info Michael. By the way, you mentioned adding ritalin, do you still use this combo, if so, how has it helped?
Thanks again,

Anthony

 

Re: long term use of parnate ... Ant-Rock

Posted by Michael K on September 28, 2001, at 16:14:44

In reply to Re: long term use of parnate ... Michael K, posted by Ant-Rock on September 27, 2001, at 8:50:36

> > >
> > > > Julie,
> > > > I've never been on resperidone with Parnate, but I've taken Parnate for most of the past 13 years at dosages from 40 to 70mg. When I first experienced some poop out, I tried thyroid medicine and then, lithium. Neither of them worked. I started adding ritalin in January of this year and that really helps. After a recent consult with a "pharmacological guru", I just increased the Parnate to 80mg with the go ahead to go up to 120mg, if necessary. I hope the resperidone works for you. It sounds like something I should try.
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > >
> > > Hi Michael,
> > > I too have been on and off parnate for many years. I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.
> > > Do you experience a tremendous crash in the afternoon hours, where you just "have" to sleep?
> > > If so , how do you counter this?
> > > Also, it concern me that each time I return to this med, I need a higher and higher dose, and it works less and less. I mean, Cocaine is similar in this respect, (I know this not from personal experience).
> > > Also, have you noticed any hair-loss from parnate?
> > >
> > > Thanks Michael for any info you could provide me with.
> > >
> > > Anthony
> >
> > Anthony,
> > I don't have any problems with afternoon crashes. It may be because I take my 2nd dose of Parnate in the afternoon. It usually energizes me somewhat.
> >
> > I have had the same problem as you when I've gone off Parnate and come back on. I'm not sure why that is, but I just increased it from 70 to 80mg and I don't think it's having any effect, yet.
> >
> > As far as hair loss, I don't think I've experienced any as a result of the Parnate. My hair has been thinning very gradually over the years, but it started well before I started Parnate. If I thought Parnate was causing it, I'm sure I would try something else.
> >
> > I hope this helps.
> >
> > Michael
>
> Thanks for the info Michael. By the way, you mentioned adding ritalin, do you still use this combo, if so, how has it helped?
> Thanks again,
>
> Anthony

Anthony,

Yes, I'm still using the Ritalin. It really helps. I take 10mg in the morning and 5mg in the afternoon. If the increase in Parnate works, I'd rather take the Ritalin on as-needed basis. I just have to wait and see.

Michael


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