Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 66219

Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Psychiatrist Online?

Posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 12:27:48

Is it possible to find a psychiatrist online? I mean, one I can keep in touch with by phone and/or email? I don't drive and I don't have much money so regular visits are awkward.

Just wondering...

sl

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Is it any wonder that...? » sl

Posted by kazoo on June 12, 2001, at 18:48:42

In reply to Psychiatrist Online?, posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 12:27:48

> Is it possible to find a psychiatrist online? I mean, one I can keep in touch with by phone and/or email? I don't drive and I don't have much money so regular visits are awkward.
>
> Just wondering...
>
> sl

^^^^^^^^^^^

Wonder no more: Dr. Lucy Van Pelt, "Psychiatric Help," 5 cents, "The doctor is in."
http://www.peanuts.com/comics/peanuts/f_profiles/html/f4c.html

(a wonderful) kazoo


 

Re: Psychiatrist Online?

Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2001, at 19:11:55

In reply to Psychiatrist Online?, posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 12:27:48

> Is it possible to find a psychiatrist online?

Take a look at:

http://www.metanoia.org/imhs/directry.htm

and let us know what you think...

Bob

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online?

Posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 19:45:44

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online?, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2001, at 19:11:55

Let me be more specific.
One who I can have a regular doctor/patient relationship with, who can write prescriptions and is knowledgeable about what to change my meds to.

I didn't SEE anything like that. Did I miss it??

And why did you delete my other post?????
That wasn't very nice!!!

sl


> > Is it possible to find a psychiatrist online?
>
> Take a look at:
>
> http://www.metanoia.org/imhs/directry.htm
>
> and let us know what you think...
>
> Bob

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Of course! » sl

Posted by kazoo on June 13, 2001, at 0:36:18

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online?, posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 19:45:44

> Let me be more specific.
> One who I can have a regular doctor/patient relationship with, who can write prescriptions and is knowledgeable about what to change my meds to.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, that clears up everything, thank you very much!

Do you think for one blistering moment that any self-respecting psychiatrist, or any medical person for that matter, will casually write you a script on-line, virtually sight-unseen? You might be better off trying to find an "800" number service to do that, good grief. There is, believe it or not, a human side to the "doctor/patient relationship" you so desire.

Listen to me, sl, I have a cousin who's a big cheese at Johns Hopkins Medical, with his own private practice in Bethesda, MD and he won't write me prescriptions. Nor will another relative who *is* a psychiatrist in NYC do the same. And both these individuals have known me since birth. They're responsible and respectable physicians who adhere to the rules of their discipline. Also, about 2 miles down the road from me lives a doctor who practices in Hartford, CT. He's known me for over 30 years and NOT ONCE has he ever written a script for me upon request. He has treated me when I was physically sick, like with the flu, and only when I wasn't able to get to my regular MD, and he was even skittish about doing that.

So unless you want stuff that grows hair, puts the UMPH back into your sex life, or ease heartbreak of psoriasis, you're not going to find what you're really looking for on-line, and when you sit right down and think hard about what you want to do along with this genre of medicine and treatment, you'll come to the startling realization that your sublime idealization is just a bit unethical (not to mention illegal), and somewhat tilted. Perhaps this will be the case in the future, but by then, brain transplants will be vogue.

What you need to do is to find a real, live psychiatrist, or psychotherapist, or psychopharmacologist, whom you can sit opposite of, for you to discuss your lot in life with using the King's English, for them to listen to you intently, so that they may pick up a pen and apply to a prescription pad to write out orders for medicine that you need and will help you. This is the way it is done. This is the way it's always been done. It is done this way because it is TIME TESTED, and it works well. Don't expect anything else because to do so would be to sell yourself short of getting real, quality help.

PERSONAL NOTE: enough is enough with this "do-anything/get-anything" on-line crap! I'm fed up with this! Is anyone else?

I rest my case.

(a stoic) kazoo


 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? » Dr. Bob

Posted by somebetter on June 13, 2001, at 1:02:20

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online?, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2001, at 19:11:55

Hi, Sir: I did look at the site and found it informative and exactly what I've been looking for, Even though they all stress that their services aren't intended for people who already have therapists, I am seriously considering adding e-therapy to my treatment. After 3 years there are still things I will not discuss with my doc that I know I gotta talk about some day. Every time he tries, ever so gently, I say, "Whoa,Bud! Change the subject." There just isn't anyone I will share everything with face to face. For one thing, I forget how to talk and can't explain myself. Of course there are plenty of examples in these threads of topics that people find easier to write about than discuss face to face with their docs/therapists - responsive or not.
(danielle is...)somebetter

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Of course! Not! » kazoo

Posted by Cam W. on June 13, 2001, at 8:06:12

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? Of course! » sl, posted by kazoo on June 13, 2001, at 0:36:18

Well said kazoo! And to add, if one did find an unscrupulous online doc to do this, I guarantee that it would cost much more than seeing a live psychiatrist (the doc has to pay his malpractice insurance, which in this case, would be prohibitive - if he could get any insurance at all). Also, I believe that in the U.S., as in Canada, a doctor is legally able to write prescriptions only in the state (or province) in which he is licenced. - Cam

 

Re: deleted post » sl

Posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2001, at 9:06:27

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online?, posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 19:45:44

> And why did you delete my other post?????
> That wasn't very nice!!!

What post was that? Usually I only delete posts that are duplicates...

Bob

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? and Tele-Psycho-Babble

Posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2001, at 9:27:01

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online?, posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 19:45:44

> > http://www.metanoia.org/imhs/directry.htm

> Let me be more specific.
> One who I can have a regular doctor/patient relationship with, who can write prescriptions and is knowledgeable about what to change my meds to.
>
> I didn't SEE anything like that. Did I miss it??

Maybe not, maybe we're just not there yet...

--------

> Well, that clears up everything, thank you very much!
>
> Do you think for one blistering moment that any self-respecting psychiatrist, or any medical person for that matter, will casually write you a script on-line, virtually sight-unseen? You might be better off trying to find an "800" number service to do that, good grief. There is, believe it or not, a human side to the "doctor/patient relationship" you so desire.

> when you sit right down and think hard about what you want to do along with this genre of medicine and treatment, you'll come to the startling realization that your sublime idealization is just a bit unethical (not to mention illegal), and somewhat tilted. Perhaps this will be the case in the future, but by then, brain transplants will be vogue.

> PERSONAL NOTE: enough is enough with this "do-anything/get-anything" on-line crap! I'm fed up with this! Is anyone else?

First, please be civil. I don't support the "casual" prescription of medication -- online or in person -- either, but sarcasm is probably best avoided here, as is referring to the views of others as "crap". Thanks.

I thought the question was about "a regular doctor/patient relationship", anyway. IMO, that (or something like that) will be available before brain transplants. In fact, there's a new addition to the Babble family devoted to "distance mental health":

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/tele

--------

> I guarantee that it would cost much more than seeing a live psychiatrist (the doc has to pay his malpractice insurance, which in this case, would be prohibitive - if he could get any insurance at all).

I don't think psychiatrists are *required* to have malpractice insurance. An online practice might or might not increase their premiums. And of course there are other factors that go into setting a fee...

> Also, I believe that in the U.S., as in Canada, a doctor is legally able to write prescriptions only in the state (or province) in which he is licenced.

AFAIK, it hasn't been clearly legislated in every state and province, but that would be my recommendation. So the issue is finding an online psychiatrist licensed in one's state...

Bob

 

Dr. Bob - thanks for your input

Posted by Kingfish on June 13, 2001, at 9:44:46

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online?, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2001, at 19:11:55

> It's really helpful to have your input when possible. Thanks.

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Why Not? » kazoo

Posted by Jane D on June 13, 2001, at 9:58:08

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? Of course! » sl, posted by kazoo on June 13, 2001, at 0:36:18

> > Let me be more specific.
> > One who I can have a regular doctor/patient relationship with, who can write prescriptions and is knowledgeable about what to change my meds to.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Well, that clears up everything, thank you very much!
>
> Do you think for one blistering moment that any self-respecting psychiatrist, or any medical person for that matter, will casually write you a script on-line, virtually sight-unseen? You might be better off trying to find an "800" number service to do that, good grief. There is, believe it or not, a human side to the "doctor/patient relationship" you so desire.
...
> What you need to do is to find a real, live psychiatrist, or psychotherapist, or psychopharmacologist, whom you can sit opposite of, for you to discuss your lot in life with using the King's English, for them to listen to you intently, so that they may pick up a pen and apply to a prescription pad to write out orders for medicine that you need and will help you. This is the way it is done. This is the way it's always been done. It is done this way because it is TIME TESTED, and it works well. Don't expect anything else because to do so would be to sell yourself short of getting real, quality help.


Kazoo -
I don't think sl was asking for someone to 'casually' write a prescription. That you can already find on the internet, at least for now. I think he was asking if any medical doctors were willing to establish an on line relationship. I think it's a reasonable question. Maybe the answer is no and should continue to be no but it's worth discussing.

It's fine to say that face to face is better but what if that's not possible? Not driving is a huge problem many places. So is lack of money. It sounds like you're saying that if you can't get the best treatment you shouldn't have any. That's only justifiable if you can show that this compromise treatment is worse than no treatment at all. It's similar to arguing that GP's shouldn't prescribe antidepressants because psychiatrists do it better. Encouraging GP's to treat depression has meant that many more people are treated and the psychiatrists seem to be as busy as ever.

Having said all that I'm not sure that prescribing drugs should be done this way. They do have physical effects as well as the psychological. Monitoring these without being face to face would be hard. But there might be a way around this. I believe videoconferencing is already used by some hospitals for consultations and every corner drug store seems to have a blood pressure machine. A doctor would need to rely more on what a patient told her than on what she could see and liability laws would need to be changed to reflect this. Would this be such a bad thing?

Jane (who still remembers once being too broke to afford the 'real thing')

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? and Tele-Psycho-Babble » Dr. Bob

Posted by Cam W. on June 13, 2001, at 10:04:56

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? and Tele-Psycho-Babble, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2001, at 9:27:01

Dr.Bob - There would have to be many issues to be addressed before online prescribing could take place. For instance, what about a side effect of Effexor, increased blood pressure. This is somehing that could not be felt and could be potentially lethal. Also, without a physical exam, nonpsychiatric causes of of psychiatric symptoms may be missed more often than they are now. I believe that online prescribing could be dangerous. The art of medicine, which is a very important part of psychiatry, may be lost in the shuffle, as perhaps would be the level of doctor/patient interaction. Some of this could be overcome with tele-psychiatry, but nothing beats a fact-to-face consultation. It would also be harder for a doc to check on the level of compliance for taking a medication, outside of taking a patient's word for it.

As to the filling of prescriptions from a doctor outside of my province, we are not supposed to do it; although, for something like BCPs or heart meds, I may part-fill the prescription, but I would be liable for anything that went wrong. Most major chain stores would not allow their pharmacists to fill out of province, let alone out of country prescriptions. They send the patient to a doctor in our province to get a legal prescription.

I am sure that I have missed some important limitations of online prescribing, but as I said, these issues would have to be addressed before any medical assciation or pharmaceutical association would allow it. Thanks for your rebuttal, Dr.B. As always, it is a pleasure when you add your expertise. - Cam

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Is it any wonder that...? » kazoo

Posted by Ron Hill on June 13, 2001, at 10:50:56

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? Is it any wonder that...? » sl, posted by kazoo on June 12, 2001, at 18:48:42

Kazoo,

Kind of a harsh response to sl. Valid points, perhaps, but no need to be harsh. What happened to (a reformed) Kazoo?!

-- Ron (someone that likes Kazoo's wit)
---------------------------------------------

> > Is it possible to find a psychiatrist online? I mean, one I can keep in touch with by phone and/or email? I don't drive and I don't have much money so regular visits are awkward.
> >
> > Just wondering...
> >
> > sl
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Wonder no more: Dr. Lucy Van Pelt, "Psychiatric Help," 5 cents, "The doctor is in."
> http://www.peanuts.com/comics/peanuts/f_profiles/html/f4c.html
>
> (a wonderful) kazoo

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Of course! » kazoo

Posted by Ron Hill on June 13, 2001, at 11:02:07

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? Of course! » sl, posted by kazoo on June 13, 2001, at 0:36:18

Kazoo,

Oops. I accidently replied to the wrong post in my previous message. The following is your post I had in mind when I wrote ...

Kazoo,

Kind of a harsh response to sl. Valid points, perhaps, but no need to be harsh. What happened to (a reformed) Kazoo?!

-- Ron (someone that likes Kazoo's wit)
---------------------------------------------

> > Let me be more specific.
> > One who I can have a regular doctor/patient relationship with, who can write prescriptions and is knowledgeable about what to change my meds to.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Well, that clears up everything, thank you very much!
>
> Do you think for one blistering moment that any self-respecting psychiatrist, or any medical person for that matter, will casually write you a script on-line, virtually sight-unseen? You might be better off trying to find an "800" number service to do that, good grief. There is, believe it or not, a human side to the "doctor/patient relationship" you so desire.
>
> Listen to me, sl, I have a cousin who's a big cheese at Johns Hopkins Medical, with his own private practice in Bethesda, MD and he won't write me prescriptions. Nor will another relative who *is* a psychiatrist in NYC do the same. And both these individuals have known me since birth. They're responsible and respectable physicians who adhere to the rules of their discipline. Also, about 2 miles down the road from me lives a doctor who practices in Hartford, CT. He's known me for over 30 years and NOT ONCE has he ever written a script for me upon request. He has treated me when I was physically sick, like with the flu, and only when I wasn't able to get to my regular MD, and he was even skittish about doing that.
>
> So unless you want stuff that grows hair, puts the UMPH back into your sex life, or ease heartbreak of psoriasis, you're not going to find what you're really looking for on-line, and when you sit right down and think hard about what you want to do along with this genre of medicine and treatment, you'll come to the startling realization that your sublime idealization is just a bit unethical (not to mention illegal), and somewhat tilted. Perhaps this will be the case in the future, but by then, brain transplants will be vogue.
>
> What you need to do is to find a real, live psychiatrist, or psychotherapist, or psychopharmacologist, whom you can sit opposite of, for you to discuss your lot in life with using the King's English, for them to listen to you intently, so that they may pick up a pen and apply to a prescription pad to write out orders for medicine that you need and will help you. This is the way it is done. This is the way it's always been done. It is done this way because it is TIME TESTED, and it works well. Don't expect anything else because to do so would be to sell yourself short of getting real, quality help.
>
> PERSONAL NOTE: enough is enough with this "do-anything/get-anything" on-line crap! I'm fed up with this! Is anyone else?
>
> I rest my case.
>
> (a stoic) kazoo

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Why Not?

Posted by sl on June 13, 2001, at 11:20:31

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? Why Not? » kazoo, posted by Jane D on June 13, 2001, at 9:58:08

> > > Let me be more specific.
> > > One who I can have a regular doctor/patient relationship with, who can write prescriptions and is knowledgeable about what to change my meds to.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Well, that clears up everything, thank you very much!
> > Do you think for one blistering moment that

Do you think that for one blistering moment you should be yelling at a depressed person who's stuck in a corner and can't get "normal" help? Do you think this does ANYONE any good?
I know it's not the normnal Method of Action.
BUT I AM SCREWED.
I can't drive, my regular doctor is too far away and too expensive to be seeing once/month, the free clinic knows NOTHING, and I'm on this stupid medicine that makes it nearly impossible for me to get out of the house and get a JOB which makes everything worse! Ohyeah, and I can't GET a job cuz in August I'm going back to college...brain full of fluff or not.

> > What you need to do is to find a real, live psychiatrist, or psychotherapist, or psychopharmacologist, whom you can sit opposite

That's all well and good. But they don't have those in my area, and taking a bus an hour each way isn't ookay when I've got a job. Yeah, this week I don't, but normally I DO.
I can go with a Dr who's not a psychiatrist, but that means I will probably have to KEEP suggesting things cuz this isn't her area.

> Kazoo -
> I don't think sl was asking for someone to 'casually' write a prescription. That you can already find on the internet, at least for now. I think he was asking if any medical doctors were willing to establish an on line relationship. I

Exactly.
My regular doctor won't. Her nurse won't even take emails into consideration. I have to call, except she's REALLY hard to get ahold of unless I just keep trying for half a day. So I can't even use email with the doctor I already have!

>think it's a reasonable question. Maybe the answer is no and should continue to be no but >it's worth discussing.
> It's fine to say that face to face is better but what if that's not possible? Not driving is a huge problem many places. So is lack of money. It sounds like you're saying that if you can't get the best treatment you shouldn't have any.

I can get there by taking a bus to the farthest point and then taking a cab the rest of the way. And of course, that's mightly expensive.

>That's only justifiable if you can show that this compromise treatment is worse than no treatment at all. It's similar to arguing that GP's shouldn't prescribe antidepressants because psychiatrists do it better. Encouraging GP's to treat depression has meant that many more people are treated and the psychiatrists seem to be as busy as ever.

I'll agree there, I just tried to call a bunch of places. County has a waiting list til September unless I'm suicidal. One place doesn't asnwer the phone. Another says "this Doctor MIGHT be taking new patients, I'll get back to you".
It's like a joke.

> a way around this. I believe videoconferencing is already used by some hospitals for consultations and every corner drug store seems to have a blood pressure machine. A doctor would need to rely more on what a patient told her than on what she could see and liability laws would need to be changed to reflect this. Would this be such a bad thing?

It wouldn't work for most people, I'll give there. But for some of us it's the ONLY way.
How DO agoraphobics get services? I have no idea.
But this isn't working. I can't keep running into the Doctor's office to say "this isn't working". I need someone who I can talk to on the phone or email and say this isn't working, here's why: .... and get a response that HELPS.

> Jane (who still remembers once being too broke to afford the 'real thing')

Thanks, Jane, I appreciate it.

sl

 

Re: Tele-Psycho-Babble » Cam W.

Posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2001, at 12:07:46

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? and Tele-Psycho-Babble » Dr. Bob, posted by Cam W. on June 13, 2001, at 10:04:56

> There would have to be many issues to be addressed before online prescribing could take place. For instance...

Thanks for your comments, those are good points that you raise. Would you mind if I redirected this to Tele-Psycho-Babble?

Bob

 

Re: Tele-Psycho-Babble » Dr. Bob

Posted by Cam W. on June 13, 2001, at 12:26:15

In reply to Re: Tele-Psycho-Babble » Cam W., posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2001, at 12:07:46

Dr.Bob - Not at all, redirect away. - Cam

> > There would have to be many issues to be addressed before online prescribing could take place. For instance...
>
> Thanks for your comments, those are good points that you raise. Would you mind if I redirected this to Tele-Psycho-Babble?
>
> Bob

 

Re: Tele-Psycho-Babble??? Whats that?? n/p

Posted by NikkiT2 on June 13, 2001, at 14:37:20

In reply to Re: Tele-Psycho-Babble » Dr. Bob, posted by Cam W. on June 13, 2001, at 12:26:15

> Dr.Bob - Not at all, redirect away. - Cam
>
> > > There would have to be many issues to be addressed before online prescribing could take place. For instance...
> >
> > Thanks for your comments, those are good points that you raise. Would you mind if I redirected this to Tele-Psycho-Babble?
> >
> > Bob

 

Re: Tele-Psycho-Babble??? Me too Nik..(np)huh?

Posted by tina on June 13, 2001, at 15:57:16

In reply to Re: Tele-Psycho-Babble??? Whats that?? n/p, posted by NikkiT2 on June 13, 2001, at 14:37:20

> > Dr.Bob - Not at all, redirect away. - Cam
> >
> > > > There would have to be many issues to be addressed before online prescribing could take place. For instance...
> > >
> > > Thanks for your comments, those are good points that you raise. Would you mind if I redirected this to Tele-Psycho-Babble?
> > >
> > > Bob

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? Why Not? » sl

Posted by Jane D on June 13, 2001, at 16:37:38

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? Why Not? , posted by sl on June 13, 2001, at 11:20:31

> I can go with a Dr who's not a psychiatrist, but that means I will probably have to KEEP suggesting things cuz this isn't her area.

sl -

This can be a good idea even if you do have a psychiatrist. It's more work but worth it and this site is a good place to start your research. If she's willing to listen to your suggestions you might be able to make it work.

> My regular doctor won't. Her nurse won't even take emails into consideration. I have to call, except she's REALLY hard to get ahold of unless I just keep trying for half a day. So I can't even use email with the doctor I already have!

That may change. More places use e mail every day. But it they can't return phone calls they may not be much better about email.

> But this isn't working. I can't keep running into the Doctor's office to say "this isn't working". I need someone who I can talk to on the phone or email and say this isn't working, here's why: .... and get a response that HELPS.

Some doctors are willing to handle this kind of thing on the phone in between office visits. (Some of them also return phone calls believe it or not.) I just don't know how you would find that out in advance - ask them maybe? I do think your chances of finding a doctor like that are far better than your chances of finding someone who will work exclusively online with you. At least for the next few years. Good luck!
Jane

 

Re: deleted post

Posted by sl on June 13, 2001, at 22:22:13

In reply to Re: deleted post » sl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2001, at 9:06:27

> > And why did you delete my other post?????
> > That wasn't very nice!!!
>
> What post was that? Usually I only delete posts that are duplicates...

It wasn't about meds per se, mebbe that's why you deleted it. I asked SalArmy4Me how he knew so much. Cuz he does. And I wondered if he was a dr or pharmacist or jsut an exceptionally well-read lay-person.

sl

 

Re: Psychiatrist Online? AVON calling!

Posted by kazoo on June 14, 2001, at 2:27:45

In reply to Psychiatrist Online?, posted by sl on June 12, 2001, at 12:27:48

The day I consult with an on-line psychiatrist, or any doctor for that matter, will also be the day I purchase the "Bob Barker Do-It-Yourself Brain Transplant Kit," and use it!

The whole idea is ridiculous, ludicrous and silly, and cheapens, as well as lessens, the quality and image of the profession. And shame, shame on physicans who advocate, promote or condone such such a dreadful thing.

Gimme some of that old time medicine any day. Ain't nothing like the real thing in any of life's experiences.

kazoo

(A copy of this blurb was posted in Tele-Psycho-Babble for the benefit of Mr. Kite.)

 

Redirect: Psychiatrist Online?

Posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2001, at 10:23:25

In reply to Re: Psychiatrist Online? and Tele-Psycho-Babble » Dr. Bob, posted by Cam W. on June 13, 2001, at 10:04:56

> Dr.Bob - There would have to be many issues to be addressed before online prescribing could take place...

I'd like to redirect this aspect of this discussion to Tele-Psycho-Babble:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/tele/20010601/msgs/20.html

Thanks,

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding what should be posted where should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, or may be deleted.


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.