Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 64463

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MAOI diets - and 'free' verses bound tyramine

Posted by paulk on May 27, 2001, at 22:35:11

There is an FAQ about MAOI diet restrictions centering on restricting tyramine, an amino acid. I have looked up the tyramine content of the restricted foods and don’t see a good correlation between tyramine content and the restricted food list. There are many items, which contain little tyramine on the list and some foods that contain lots of tyramine that are not on the list?

For example, according to the book “Food Values of portions commonly used” (by Pennington Harper & Row), 3.5oz of ground lean beef contains 747mg of tyramine while 1 oz of cheddar cheese contains 341mg of tyramine. Thus a Cheeseburger with Cheddar cheese on it may deliver twice as much tyramine from the meat as from the cheese.
I thought perhaps it was combinations of more than one Amino acid – but I have yet to see any pattern.
I’m guessing that it must be the amount of ‘free’ tyramine, that is tyramine that is not bound up as part of a protein, which counts? This would explain why ‘spoiled’ meat would pose a danger and fresh cooked meat would be safe? Some meat tenderizers actually digest some of the protein and could be of danger??

Can anyone provide a source of information that would list free Amino acids contained in foods? There must be some better/ more complete information of this subject somewhere – I would appreciate anyone who could help point me to it.

I do know that tyramine is a precursor to dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine and that large amounts of the ingested amino acid can change the amounts of these nuro transmitters – although there is an interaction with insulin and carbohydrates. (See Scientific American May of 1982 – an article by Richard Wurtman of MIT)

I know that if I feel down, I also crave cheddar cheese. If the reason is that cheddar cheese is a source of ‘free’ tyramine (as opposed to bound tyramine) it could well mean that an MAOI may well be the best choice of medicine for my depression (atypical – life long etc.) (BTW it seems that especially Sharp Cheddar cheese is the best for me - other cheeses (mozzarella, American etc) don't do it)

 

Re: MAOI diets » paulk

Posted by Elizabeth on May 29, 2001, at 20:20:04

In reply to MAOI diets - and 'free' verses bound tyramine, posted by paulk on May 27, 2001, at 22:35:11

> There is an FAQ about MAOI diet restrictions centring on restricting tyramine, an amino acid.

Can I ask where this is (URL)? I wrote a FAQ about MAOIs several years ago, when I was an undergraduate. Unfortunately, when I lost my computer account at my undergrad college, my web page went away. It would be neat if someone had preserved my FAQ, although it's out of date and would need some revisions!

(BTW, there are also a couple of foods -- obscure things like fava bean pods and banana peels -- that contain serotonin or dopamine, which should also be avoided when taking MAOIs.)

< snip >

> For example, according to the book “Food Values of portions commonly used” (by Pennington Harper & Row), 3.5oz of ground lean beef contains 747mg of tyramine while 1 oz of cheddar cheese contains 341mg of tyramine.

Huh. That's sort of weird. Books about nutrition tend not to list tyramine content, because tyramine isn't an amino acid (it's a metabolite of tyrosine, which is an amino acid). Is it possible that the amounts listed in the book were tyrosine contents, not tyramine?

There are enzymes called peptidases in the stomach that break down proteins into their constituent amino acids. So it's irrelevant whether or not there are "free" amino acids in a particular food.

Meat tends to be safe unless it is aged or has not been stored properly. Certain bacteria excrete tyrosine hydroxylases, which catalyse the biotransformation of tyrosine into tyramine.

-elizabeth

 

Re: MAOI diets » Elizabeth

Posted by paulk on June 1, 2001, at 21:54:03

In reply to Re: MAOI diets » paulk, posted by Elizabeth on May 29, 2001, at 20:20:04

> > There is an FAQ about MAOI diet restrictions centring on restricting tyramine, an amino acid.
>
> Can I ask where this is (URL)? I wrote a FAQ about MAOIs several years ago, when I was an undergraduate. Unfortunately, when I lost my computer account at my undergrad college, my web page went away. It would be neat if someone had preserved my FAQ, although it's out of date and would need some revisions!
>
> (BTW, there are also a couple of foods -- obscure things like fava bean pods and banana peels -- that contain serotonin or dopamine, which should also be avoided when taking MAOIs.)
>
> > There is an FAQ about MAOI diet restrictions centring on restricting tyramine, an amino acid.
>
> Can I ask where this is (URL)? I wrote a FAQ about MAOIs several years ago, when I was an undergraduate. Unfortunately, when I lost my computer account at my undergrad college, my web page went away. It would be neat if someone had preserved my FAQ, although it's out of date and would need some revisions!
>
> (BTW, there are also a couple of foods -- obscure things like fava bean pods and banana peels -- that contain serotonin or dopamine, which should also be avoided when taking MAOIs.)
>
> < snip >
>
> > For example, according to the book “Food Values of portions commonly used” (by Pennington Harper & Row), 3.5oz of ground lean beef contains 747mg of tyramine while 1 oz of cheddar cheese contains 341mg of tyramine.
>
> Huh. That's sort of weird. Books about nutrition tend not to list tyramine content, because tyramine isn't an amino acid (it's a metabolite of tyrosine, which is an amino acid). Is it possible that the amounts listed in the book were tyrosine contents, not tyramine?

You are correct - I was still having IQ problems when I wrote that - I'm still finding out just how many things I screwed up with the memory problem I associated with Effexor.
>
> There are enzymes called peptidases in the stomach that break down proteins into their constituent amino acids. So it's irrelevant whether or not there are "free" amino acids in a particular food.
>
see
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html

But it is perhaps the free tyramine - that would be bacterially digested from tyrosine that is to be avoided? My questions is why would I crave foods with tyramine?

In all your reading have you seen anything about posterior sub capsular cataract (like those that diabetics or users of steroids get) related to any of this? Coicidently with my memory going with Effexor I just got that diagnose. I am off Effexor now and memory is much better. Could be just a coincidence – but it could also be related > perhaps I have something brewing that is causing the cataracts and the new problems (after many years) with Effexor.


Paulk


 

Re: MAOI diets » paulk

Posted by Elizabeth on June 2, 2001, at 14:36:52

In reply to Re: MAOI diets » Elizabeth, posted by paulk on June 1, 2001, at 21:54:03

> see
> http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html

That's not mine...but it's not entirely accurate, either.

> But it is perhaps the free tyramine - that would be bacterially digested from tyrosine that is to be avoided?

No, free vs. bound doesn't make any difference. Proteins are broken down into their constituent amino acids during digestion.

> My questions is why would I crave foods with tyramine?

Some people find that tyrosine supplements improve their mood (tyrosine is a catecholamine precursor).

> In all your reading have you seen anything about posterior sub capsular cataract (like those that diabetics or users of steroids get) related to any of this?

No.

> Coicidently with my memory going with Effexor I just got that diagnose. I am off Effexor now and memory is much better. Could be just a coincidence – but it could also be related > perhaps I have something brewing that is causing the cataracts and the new problems (after many years) with Effexor.

Anticholinergic drugs have been shown to have adverse effects on memory. Effexor may have some indirect anticholinergic effect which could cause memory problems.

-elizabeth


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