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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by scoton on April 30, 2001, at 9:41:13
just found this website, and have read threw most of the postings, i have been on lamictal for about three years and now and switching to topamax and also getting off lithium, have been having problems with short term memory with words, places,people,phone numbers etc, was even driving another city to home and was about 75 miles from home and totaly forgot where i was going andwhere i lived it was scary, drove around for about two hours until it came back to me, also the neigbor says her and i had a conversion that i do not even recall. this morning i could not remember one of my son's names or even how to spell. i know i must sound real stupid to all of you.is there anyone outhere who can relate and does this go away when you get use to topamax i am only on 100 mg now. thanks.
Posted by JahL on April 30, 2001, at 10:51:26
In reply to anyone with memory problems, posted by scoton on April 30, 2001, at 9:41:13
> > just found this website, and have read threw most of the postings, i have been on lamictal for about three years and now and switching to topamax and also getting off lithium, have been having problems with short term memory with words, places,people,phone numbers etc, was even driving another city to home and was about 75 miles from home and totaly forgot where i was going andwhere i lived it was scary, drove around for about two hours until it came back to me, also the neigbor says her and i had a conversion that i do not even recall. this morning i could not remember one of my son's names or even how to spell. i know i must sound real stupid to all of you.is there anyone outhere who can relate and does this go away when you get use to topamax i am only on 100 mg now. thanks.
Hi. Just a couple of thoughts.
SLS, a regular poster here, reported memory problems when on more than 300mg of Lamictal.
I have memory (& general cognitive) problems & I don't think the Lamictal (250mg) is especially helping. Nor is the Klonopin, though this is notorious for ST memory problems.
Lithium really scrambled my brain & a lot of people talk of 'cognitive dulling'. I don't know how this relates to memory though.
As for Topiramate, you might want to look @ the study below. It does not bode particularly well for the cognitive side of things, though I should add it is only one study & there are a couple of posters here who use Topiramate w/o any complaints.
Good Luck,
Jah.PS I have had the 'not knowing where you're driving' thang; pure headf*ck!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Cognitive effects of topiramate, gabapentin, and lamotrigine in healthy young adults."
Neurology 1999 Jan 15;52(2):321-7 (ISSN: 0028-3878)
Martin R; Kuzniecky R; Ho S; Hetherington H; Pan J; Sinclair K; Gilliam F; Faught E .
University of Alabama at Birmingham Epilepsy Center, Department of Neurology, University of Alabama at Birmingham 35294-0021, USA.OBJECTIVE: To study the acute and steady-state cognitive effects of three new antiepileptic drugs (AEDs): gabapentin, lamotrigine, and topiramate. BACKGROUND: Several newer antiepileptic medications approved recently by the Food and Drug Administration are gaining attention as efficacious alternatives to established AEDs. Greater tolerability with fewer side effects are reported in some. However, the potential cognitive effects of these newer AEDs have received limited attention. METHODS: Healthy young adults randomized to either of the three drugs were administered tests of attention, psychomotor speed, language, memory, and mood at baseline (predrug), acute single-dose period, and after 2 and 4 weeks on the drug. RESULTS: Compared with baseline, the topiramate group had selective, statistically significant declines on measures of attention and word fluency at acute doses, whereas the other two AED groups had no performance changes. At the 2- and 4-week test periods, only the topiramate subjects continued to display neurocognitive effects from drug administration. CONCLUSIONS: Results demonstrate potential acute and steady-state adverse cognitive effects for topiramate, whereas minimal effects were displayed for either gabapentin or lamotrigine in young healthy adults.
Posted by SalArmy4me on April 30, 2001, at 11:10:45
In reply to anyone with memory problems, posted by scoton on April 30, 2001, at 9:41:13
How long have you been on the Topamax?
Posted by Chris A. on April 30, 2001, at 13:53:41
In reply to anyone with memory problems, posted by scoton on April 30, 2001, at 9:41:13
Topomax is the biggest offender as far as cognitive side effects are concerned. The controlled studies as well as the anecdotal evidence bear this out. Some people do well on it, but others, like myself, don't do well at all (it was a nightmare). Some of us are more neurologically vulnerable to these side effects. A pediatrician friend whose son has severe seizure disorder went so far so as to refer to it as "topo-dumb." She is not one to make radical statements, but that was her observation when her son was on it.
Hope this helps and doesn't hurt. BTW, Lamictal has been the best anticonvulsant I have taken (and I've tried them all) as far as cognitive side effects are concerned.
Blessings,
Chris A.
Posted by scoton on April 30, 2001, at 14:46:00
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems » scoton, posted by SalArmy4me on April 30, 2001, at 11:10:45
> How long have you been on the Topamax?
this is only my third week on topamax, that is why i was wondering if maybe i just need time to get use to it. didn't have any problems with lamictal when i was on that, but it just seems like the last six months or so it isn't working like it use to, as for the lithium, i had kidney failure last year due to the lithium and my new psych thinks i have been on it too long and there really isnt any proof that it ever worked for me because i always had a anticonvulsant backing it up, so it is going. thanks so much for the input it is so much appreciated, i feel alone with this.
Posted by judy1 on April 30, 2001, at 17:12:50
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems » scoton, posted by Chris A. on April 30, 2001, at 13:53:41
I always called it 'stupidmax'. BTW, Chris how are you doing? I read some posts on the admin site when you weren't feeling well. Why don't you answer on the social board. take care, judy
Posted by Kingfish on May 1, 2001, at 8:25:11
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems » Chris A., posted by judy1 on April 30, 2001, at 17:12:50
Scoton:
I take Topamax, 250 mg, and it does definitely have that side effect for me. It has gotten better, though, after several months, quite a bit better. I always had a bit of trouble with short term memory and wrote things down a lot, so it hasn't made a huge difference for me because taking it has helped. I never had as bad an experience as you have related.
One thing that has continued, is the mixing up of words occasionally, a side effect I forget, :), to mention to people when they ask. I'll say,"toothpaste" instead of "takeout" or something like that. I just laugh. It is rather funny.
Good luck.
- K.
Posted by Paige on May 2, 2001, at 5:26:20
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems » Chris A., posted by judy1 on April 30, 2001, at 17:12:50
Just out of curiousity having read the above posts,
is it my imagination or do anti-seizure meds have
this running capacity to make one have memory
problems??? I know it may sound like a dumb
question, "brilliant deduction" type thing, but
each post comments about anti seizure med. i take
Klonopin and my short term memory and ability to
regurgitate trivia or non-trivia on command is
certainly not what it used to be. And why would
these meds affect that part of the brain. Is it
intended to prevent seizure or is it merely a
side effect which is worth it because who would want
a continuation of seizures? I take Klonopin
for insomnia, but my brain is a bit spongy from it
and is it reversible once I stop it? I hope I
have not interrupted to much here andapologize if
I have. Any help is dearly appreciated.
Paige
Posted by Annabelle on May 4, 2001, at 11:54:23
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems, posted by Paige on May 2, 2001, at 5:26:20
Paige,
Yes, I think it is happening to me. I have been on Klonopin and Neurontin for muscle pain, and also Celexa and Wellbutrin for depression. I am sure the combo of all this stuff is taking its toll on my memory. Short term is shot. I have no lethargy, but I can't get started like I used to.
Also I have noticed a slight tremor to my hands only recently. Does anyone have any feedback?
Annie
Posted by Paige on May 4, 2001, at 12:18:15
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems, posted by Annabelle on May 4, 2001, at 11:54:23
> Paige,
> Yes, I think it is happening to me. I have been on Klonopin and Neurontin for muscle pain, and also Celexa and Wellbutrin for depression. I am sure the combo of all this stuff is taking its toll on my memory. Short term is shot. I have no lethargy, but I can't get started like I used to.
> Also I have noticed a slight tremor to my hands only recently. Does anyone have any feedback?
> Annie
Hi Annie,I had hand tremor when I was on Wellbutrin. It wasn't a major
tremor, like in earthquake tremor, but naturally
I noticed it. I didn't fret over it though. It never
got real bad. Coffee did not help it along though.
I think the Klonopin is what is doing my short
term memory in and I am contemplating getting off
it fairly soon. I have been on it over a year
and it does help me sleep and keep me a bit calmer,
but I am starting to wonder about my memory which used
to be so good. I hope it is reversible. I don't
know. I liked Wellbutrin. But it made me wake up
every morning at 4am and I could not take it anymore.
Loved the focus it gave me and am now searching
for something which will have similar affects, but
not the early am stuff. Lost weight too!!But alas,
I did not need to, so it was not great. Someday I may
try it again who knows. I have tried the lot of them.
Every SSRI except Luvox, Wellbutrin, Buspar, Knonopin,
Ativan, Trazadone...I am losing count. Sam-e. I am
willing to give that one another shot along with
the other stuff you are supposed to take with it,but
I think I will need a higher dose of Sam-e.Well, now, I have carried on a bit here- apologies.
I wouldn't worry too much about the tremor unless
you really have it bad and you can't stand it (I also
got it with Celexa) the memory thing? Well the search is
on to see if it is reversible. Oddly enough no one has responded
to my query as to if it is or not and if it is associated
only with anti-seizure meds, so I will keep researching and
maybe I will find something.Take care of yourself, Annie.
Best,
paige
Posted by MG on May 4, 2001, at 17:51:58
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems, posted by Paige on May 2, 2001, at 5:26:20
Hi,
I too am taking celexa and wellbutrin and have short term memory lapses. Also have had a signifgant weight gain...when I mention this to the dos, they say weight gain is not a side effect. Anyone else in the same boat? What's better no pills and depression or pill and depression because of the weight gain?
MG
Posted by Paige on May 4, 2001, at 19:26:59
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems, posted by MG on May 4, 2001, at 17:51:58
> Hi,
>
> I too am taking celexa and wellbutrin and have short term memory lapses. Also have had a signifgant weight gain...when I mention this to the dos, they say weight gain is not a side effect. Anyone else in the same boat? What's better no pills and depression or pill and depression because of the weight gain?
>
>
> MGMG-
Is your doc a GP or Psychiatrist? I have found
pdoc to be quick to point out side effects, well
some of them. Celexa made me crave carbohydrates, but
Wellbutrin made me crave nothing. I know that
I had to make myself get moving while on Celexa
as it made me a little lazy. Wellbutrin made me
run all day and still I was up at 4am. I under-
stand what you mean about pill and depression, or
no pill and depression. Presently, I am torn
with the same dilemma. Lists of side effects (and
I am hyper sensitive to meds...bruising from Celexa,
which is a rare side effect) so I am so limited
in what I can take, which is getting closer and closer
to nothing as I worked teary eyed for a good part
of the day. It's hell for me anyway. I would
think Wellbutrin and Celexa would be a good combo.
I wanted that combo, but pdoc was not for it for me.
If you are not that depressed and the meds serve you,
then I would stick with them and make yourself
a daily exercise plan. I did this. It was hard, but
I got very angry about depression and not wanting
it to chronically beat me up and I knew the exercise
would help. today I did not do the treadmill nor my
weights and I basically had a crappy day. I think
many of us want the miracle happy pill. My pdoc
asked me "what do you want medication to do for you?"
My answer "make me eternally happy." But alas there
is always a trade off and a combo of meds it seems
to reach that desired affect and then there is the
active part I have to play. It's rough when you've
missed so many rehearsals....There are many places to review side effects
do a search here at dr. b's. Some people gain weight and
some don't. It's all chemistry.Keep the faith-
Paige
Posted by Rick on May 27, 2001, at 2:59:59
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems, posted by Paige on May 2, 2001, at 5:26:20
I've been taking Klonopin for two years, and both Serzone and Provigil for one. Over the last six months I've started experiencing more and more memory loss -- long-term and especially short-term. Part of the short-term problem is losing a thought that I had just a moment ago. Sometimes I admonish myself, "remember, remember, remember!", and then quickly forget... usually when I'm distracted by one or two insignificant thoughts or occurences.
I tried cutting the Klonopin from 1.5 to 1 mg/day. After a few weeks I noticed no difference in terms of memory lapses. Then I re-upped the Klonopin and tapered down on Serzone, eventually all the way from 450 to zero. The memory deficits responded promptly...the less Serzone I took, the less I forgot. An important confounding factor in the analysis may be that I tapered the Serzone during one of the few not-so-busy periods I've had in a long time (read: I was getting 8 hours of sleep instead of going to bed late and getting 4-5, sometimes 6).
To get back the wonderfully robust anti-anxiety (Social Phobia) benefits of my med cocktail, I re-upped the doses, but stopped at somewhat lower levels than before: 1.25 Klonopin and 375 Serzone.
Current status: Slightly reduced anxiety benefit vs. 1.5/450, and, unfortunately, no real improvement in the memory situation (dry mouth not quite as bad, though). Dealing with the memory-loss episodes is hardly debilitating but it is annoying, and has caused some minor problems (including incurring needless expenses) and embarrassment.
Possible conclusions:
-- Serzone seems to be the real culprit for my
memory lapses, unless the hours-of-sleep
coincidence was a prime culprit, too.
-- However, perhaps a Serzone interaction with
Klonopin *could* be bringing out the Klonopin
memory-loss effect that I've heard a lot about
but never experienced (except perhaps *very*
mildly) until awhile after I added Serzone.
(When I started writing this bullet point I
intended to add another thought, but now,
60 seconds later, I haven't a clue what it
was. If I sat here and concentrated for five
minutes, there's perhaps a 50% chance it
would come back to me. There's also a
chance it will come back to me in a day or
two. This kind of thing would happen to me
pre-meds, but nowhere near as often.)
-- At least for now, the memory effects clearly
seem reversible. Whew!
-- The anti-seizure, anti-anxiety benzo Klonopin
does NOT seem to be the main culprit for me,
despite its reputation. Of course there's
been a lot reported about memory problems
with Serzone, too.
-- While Provigil provides me with many wonderful
benefits, I sure haven't seen the reputed
memory-enhancement effects!Question:
In others' experiences, or from what you've read or heard, can med-induced memory problems take such a long time to surface? (6 months in my case,or 18 months if the Klonopin is involved)
And that question just reminded me of the thought I lost when I was writing above. Namely, with regard to any Klonopin impact on the memory problems, I was taking a lot more Klonopin pre-Serzone -- up to 2.5 mg per day -- and had virtually no memory issues. I really the blame has to go to the Serzone and, maybe to a lesser extent, the lack of sufficient sleep (which I'm determined to change...so why am I posting at 3:00 a.m.????)
Rick
Posted by Mitch on May 27, 2001, at 15:48:24
In reply to Re: anyone with memory problems, posted by Rick on May 27, 2001, at 2:59:59
I have been taking Klonopin for two+ years and have tried Serzone before. Just a question for anybody-I have noticed that just abut everything that creates a short-term memory problem *also* causes amblyopia/lazy eye problems. Here is my own list of amblyopia causing meds: Serzone, Klonopin, diazepam, doxepin, Remeron, (sedating stuff), but NO amblyopia with Diphenhydramine, for example. Has anybody else noticed this? Any ideas about why they could be connected?
> I've been taking Klonopin for two years, and both Serzone and Provigil for one. Over the last six months I've started experiencing more and more memory loss -- long-term and especially short-term. Part of the short-term problem is losing a thought that I had just a moment ago. Sometimes I admonish myself, "remember, remember, remember!", and then quickly forget... usually when I'm distracted by one or two insignificant thoughts or occurences.
>
> I tried cutting the Klonopin from 1.5 to 1 mg/day. After a few weeks I noticed no difference in terms of memory lapses. Then I re-upped the Klonopin and tapered down on Serzone, eventually all the way from 450 to zero. The memory deficits responded promptly...the less Serzone I took, the less I forgot. An important confounding factor in the analysis may be that I tapered the Serzone during one of the few not-so-busy periods I've had in a long time (read: I was getting 8 hours of sleep instead of going to bed late and getting 4-5, sometimes 6).
>
> To get back the wonderfully robust anti-anxiety (Social Phobia) benefits of my med cocktail, I re-upped the doses, but stopped at somewhat lower levels than before: 1.25 Klonopin and 375 Serzone.
>
> Current status: Slightly reduced anxiety benefit vs. 1.5/450, and, unfortunately, no real improvement in the memory situation (dry mouth not quite as bad, though). Dealing with the memory-loss episodes is hardly debilitating but it is annoying, and has caused some minor problems (including incurring needless expenses) and embarrassment.
>
> Possible conclusions:
> -- Serzone seems to be the real culprit for my
> memory lapses, unless the hours-of-sleep
> coincidence was a prime culprit, too.
> -- However, perhaps a Serzone interaction with
> Klonopin *could* be bringing out the Klonopin
> memory-loss effect that I've heard a lot about
> but never experienced (except perhaps *very*
> mildly) until awhile after I added Serzone.
> (When I started writing this bullet point I
> intended to add another thought, but now,
> 60 seconds later, I haven't a clue what it
> was. If I sat here and concentrated for five
> minutes, there's perhaps a 50% chance it
> would come back to me. There's also a
> chance it will come back to me in a day or
> two. This kind of thing would happen to me
> pre-meds, but nowhere near as often.)
> -- At least for now, the memory effects clearly
> seem reversible. Whew!
> -- The anti-seizure, anti-anxiety benzo Klonopin
> does NOT seem to be the main culprit for me,
> despite its reputation. Of course there's
> been a lot reported about memory problems
> with Serzone, too.
> -- While Provigil provides me with many wonderful
> benefits, I sure haven't seen the reputed
> memory-enhancement effects!
>
> Question:
>
> In others' experiences, or from what you've read or heard, can med-induced memory problems take such a long time to surface? (6 months in my case,or 18 months if the Klonopin is involved)
>
> And that question just reminded me of the thought I lost when I was writing above. Namely, with regard to any Klonopin impact on the memory problems, I was taking a lot more Klonopin pre-Serzone -- up to 2.5 mg per day -- and had virtually no memory issues. I really the blame has to go to the Serzone and, maybe to a lesser extent, the lack of sufficient sleep (which I'm determined to change...so why am I posting at 3:00 a.m.????)
>
> Rick
This is the end of the thread.
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