Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 16213

Shown: posts 20 to 44 of 44. Go back in thread:

 

Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill..

Posted by Adam on December 13, 1999, at 0:14:02

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Bob on December 12, 1999, at 19:45:05

Bob,

I'm not even going to try to play Dr. Sex here (no pun anywhere inteneded), but there are
some things about your description of Viagra that still puzzle me. I never used it for
sex with another person, but it's my understanding that you take the pill 1/2 to one hour
before relations. I guess that ought to give plenty of time beforehand to, y'know, get
ready before the drug kicks in. It seems like there would be plenty of time to be tender
and affectionate. And then there's all the post-coital cuddling, etc. that give ample
opportunity to express deep emotion. I've seen people in movies gaze into one another's
eyes and weep for joy while making love, etc., but the reality of the actual act seems
less romantic and a little more carnal. Of course, I've never felt detached emotionally
with someone I cared for, and I agree I would find that disturbing too. But I can't see
how a bit of grunt urge isn't normal and appropriate. You know, lust? I've never felt
insulted by getting, you know, attacked.


> > I don't doubt that Viagra helps some with SSRI anorgasmia....
>
> Now, the thing that I *haven't* said is that while it has helped get my inner caveman out of his cave, it truly did nothing for those aspects of making love with someone you care for that require more desire and romance than grunt-urge. The body was quite willing, but I was still emotionally detached from the experience ... which truly horrified me and has scared me off from using the stuff ever since. No matter -- my partner still wants me to use the stuff because it pleases her just fine.
>
> Doug, Cindy: hate to put it this way, but I'm sure you understand when I say you're lucky to have partners who are as bothered by and concerned about your anorgasmia as you are.
>
> Bob

 

Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill..

Posted by Adam on December 13, 1999, at 9:19:03

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Adam on December 13, 1999, at 0:14:02


I apologize for using "you know" all the time with this subject.

It has a certain "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" quality to it when read that is really
kind of puerile. I'll refrain.

 

Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill..

Posted by Elizabeth on December 13, 1999, at 12:37:37

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Adam on December 13, 1999, at 9:19:03

Hey guys, "the pill" refers to something altogether different from Viagra. (In fact, a joke goes that said Pill works by making one disinterested in sex.)

 

Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill..

Posted by Adam on December 13, 1999, at 13:15:28

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Elizabeth on December 13, 1999, at 12:37:37

I'm sorry. It was an attempt to work a monosylabic word into "Dr. Strangelove's" subtitle. I have heard Viagra
referred to as "the pill" however, perhaps an ironic juxtaposition to birth control pills and their somewhat divergent
uses. No offense is meant by using "the pill", and I did not intend for that to mean birth control. I apologize
to anyone that may have offended, if it did. I don't wish to be insensitive.

> Hey guys, "the pill" refers to something altogether different from Viagra. (In fact, a joke goes that said Pill works by making one disinterested in sex.)

 

say no more, squire!

Posted by Bob on December 13, 1999, at 16:14:02

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Adam on December 13, 1999, at 13:15:28

Okay, how about instead of just "the pill" or even "the Pill", we call it (when being irreverent) "the V Pill" ... not to be confused with the "V Chip", the intended purpose of which is quite the opposite of the V Pill.

As for lust -- sure, that's great, too! But when I used the V Pill and gave into what my lust (out-of-)control center was telling me to do, the last thing I expected was for my mind, my heart, to not just stay out of the process ... part of me wanted to jump out of my body and run away. The majority of me was just too confused to make any change in the situation at all. Obviously, there's some serious psychological issues I need to deal with here, and I guess that was my point. If the anorgasmia is related to meds, then maybe the V Pill can get that love engine cooking enough to pull the rest you along for the ride. On the other hand, if you have some psychological issue confounded with the pharmaceutical issue, caveman (or cavewoman) lust may not be enough to get you through.

Bob

 

Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill..

Posted by Elizabeth on December 13, 1999, at 21:16:21

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Adam on December 13, 1999, at 13:15:28

> I'm sorry. It was an attempt to work a monosylabic word into "Dr. Strangelove's" subtitle. I have heard Viagra
> referred to as "the pill" however, perhaps an ironic juxtaposition to birth control pills and their somewhat divergent
> uses. No offense is meant by using "the pill", and I did not intend for that to mean birth control. I apologize
> to anyone that may have offended, if it did. I don't wish to be insensitive.

You're worse than insensitive! You don't get my jokes!

:) :) :)

(Yeah, I got the _Dr. Strangelove_ reference. "The pill, Dmitri...the birth control pill.")

 

Re: I'd like to buy a clue for $100...

Posted by Adam on December 14, 1999, at 0:46:04

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Elizabeth on December 13, 1999, at 21:16:21

Cool beans. Thanks...

>
> You're worse than insensitive! You don't get my jokes!
>
> :) :) :)
>
> (Yeah, I got the _Dr. Strangelove_ reference. "The pill, Dmitri...the birth control pill.")

 

And?

Posted by Racer on December 17, 1999, at 14:11:49

In reply to Perhaps many have thought of the same question:, posted by anon (as if our names werent' virtually anon!) on December 5, 1999, at 4:28:45

Sorry, hoped this would catch your attention...

Mastubation is a GOOD thing, all the way around. It shows that you love yourself, and care enough about yourself to indulge in pleasure. Don't be shy with your psychiatrist, if he/she has a problem with your being worried about anorgasmia when you don't have a partner, well, that's not YOUR problem, is it? Be healthy, and love yourself.

After all, if I don't play with myself, I'll never learn what feels good, so I have to hope that my partner is smarter about these things than I am.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.

I'm having good luck with Periactin, which blocks the effects of the SSRI for a short time, and let's me scream with pleasure and delight. That said, yes, I've experienced giving up because it's just too much work for not nearly enough return. I've just about burnt out my vibrator hoping that something would finally happen. With the Periactin, I've felt shivers and quivers and then the fireworks have started just the way they should.

Good luck.

 

Re: And?

Posted by Noa on December 17, 1999, at 18:56:41

In reply to And?, posted by Racer on December 17, 1999, at 14:11:49

You know what Woody Allen said in Annie Hall..."Masturbation? Hey, Don't knock it, it's sex with someone I love!"

Thanks for speaking openly, Racer. We all have a long way to go. Consider that we live in a country where the surgeon general was fired for daring to mention the "M" word when talking about sexuality education.

 

Re: And?

Posted by arabella on May 21, 2001, at 2:11:32

In reply to And?, posted by Racer on December 17, 1999, at 14:11:49

I am definately a woman and thought anorgasmia was the term for Womens'
sexual dysfunction and the term for mens'
was erectile dysfnction or (horrors to have to say it) Impotence.
I have been on not only seratonin reuptake inhibitors but also neurontin to treat my bi-polar disorder and narcotic pain medication to treat my fibromyalgia - an entirely new thread - all of which can cause anorgasmia. I've been dealing with this on and off for like 4 years out of the 8 years I've been with the same partner with whom I am not only almost
absolutely sure I'll have an orgasm, but Multiple orgasms. Here's the hitch - it only occurs when I'm med free, take a medication "vacation" (and am not curently taking any sris, namely Zoloft which seems to have a half-life of like, a million years) for the day - not exactly
your most spontanious experience, or am on
welbutrin AND take the day off from that. The only things I can take are my Klonopin in the morning (1mg.) and very low doses of oxycontin, a "cure" that sometimes, by the time we're ready to go to bed, has caused me so much physical pain and fatigue, or put me in such a bad mood, or my sex drive has been so low one day isn't going to boost it, and therefore, I've had a very frustrating sex life which has left me angry at the pharmaceutical companies, researchers, psychiatrists and even my botfriend who is just as upset about my inability to come as I am.

Sorry to ramble but all my life I have felt that sex, intimacy and the sheer other-world experience of acheiving orgasm/s with someone you love are a vital part of life. When that dries up, my level of creativity dries up, I become more moody and full of self loathing and if that isn't exactly like depression what is?

What's so good about feeling good even though your life isn't really any better - it's just that antidepressants make it easier to put the blinders on and say la, la, this isn't going to affect me the way it used to and by the way Dr., uh, I just happened to realize that nothing affects me the way it used to. I'm just in this "Zone" of being pleased with mediocrity, dissatisfaction and not living life to its fullest because, hey, where I am isn't so bad - these pills really do the trick. At lwaest I can get out of bed.

But even on all these meds, I'm so angry at the dulling of my most acute senses, the feeling of being almost almost almost there but the synapses just aren't firing and when after sex, I roll over and want to cry, what is that? Is that a good thing? That IS depression
and Doctors don't understand that it's not just about not getting off. There's a certain just getting by, deadend feeling. I don't even want to eat any more. Technically, I'm anorexic but it's out of sheer lack of appetite or interest in food rather than body image problems. So I eat to survive. The same things night after night. Cheese or peanut butter sandwiches.

Is this right?

Guys, I don't know how many women out there have ever even really had an orgasm or have and can't anymore because they're on meds, but believe me it's important for women too!
and anorgasmia is like a joke to Doctors.
I've had suicidal moments because the sheer inability to share the most intimate thing a person can share with another (and talk about 30 minutes? I've masturbated for like an hour and I just get tired and want to cry because I can't even make myself come) , especially when you're in love, and still attracted and even want to have a kid - that's not funny to me.

My doctor told me a long time ago that none of the antidotes really work except for Viagra but the FDA won't approve it for women. Why not?
My mind is willing, my body even gets almost there, but I just can't break through. After several months of bot having an orgasm, I'd love to take viagra, even if I grew some hair on my back ( I make animal noises anyway so
what of it?).

Anyway guys, you're not alone. and I really feel bad for you. But the way the situation is treated when a woman is involved is like, well, sorry. Most doctors won't even bother to try other meds because< "well, the Zoloft works. We know it worrks and you're not feeling very good. When you're feeling better, maybe we can stop it".

Sorry Doc, but ain't gonna feel better till I come
a few times.

And to whoever that/those women out there
who are having a good old time listening to this and making snide remarks,
go jerk yourselves off. You probably wouldn't know a real orgasm if it came up and bit you on the ass.
I know I'm breaking netiquite, but really, this is no laughing matter. The older I get the more I see - people shame themselves. Without any help from others.

 

Re: please be civil arabella

Posted by Dr. Bob on May 21, 2001, at 18:03:05

In reply to Re: And?, posted by arabella on May 21, 2001, at 2:11:32

> My doctor told me a long time ago that none of the antidotes really work except for Viagra but the FDA won't approve it for women.

Just because the FDA won't let it be marketed for women doesn't mean it can't be prescribed for them...

> And to whoever that/those women out there
> who are having a good old time listening to this and making snide remarks,
> go jerk yourselves off. You probably wouldn't know a real orgasm if it came up and bit you on the ass.
> I know I'm breaking netiquite, but really, this is no laughing matter.

I know it's rough, but it's still important to be civil here. Thanks,

Bob

PS: FYI, there's a section in the FAQ on civility:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil

Follow-ups regarding this, if not redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, may be deleted.

 

Sincere apologies. It IS rough.

Posted by arabella on May 22, 2001, at 0:21:08

In reply to Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the pill.., posted by Bob on December 12, 1999, at 19:45:05

I do apologize for that last part of my posting.
I really get carried away sometimes.
But I have to say, eperienceing any type of sexual dysfunction especially when it's from
meds "You have to take" is extremely difficult to deal with and I'm not sure women are always included in the equasion. Yeah, we're advertised as the partner the impotent male wants to please but when is a females inability to climax made an issue. I never see
anything on t.v. - not that I watch it a lot, but I have seen those viagra and natural potency formulas advertised a lot when I do watch.

Do we ever see images of a sad woman, a woman kicking the side of a tree, tearing her hair out from the frustration, feeling like a failure, like part of your life has been taken away from you (and its a big old chunk for me)
because she can't climax? MY partner isn't happy about it. I used to lie - say It was wonderful. Now, I'm almost too truthfull.
The last time we made love we were in that
post-coital haze still and I admitted that it was really great, (which it still can be sans climax, but not all the TIME) and I had those flutters, like tiny climaxes beginning, beginning and then just dying on me. Now that was a special moment. I felt so bad about what I said - it was like not only reporting on my responses to
my boyfirend, but I'm sure it also sounded
like a selfish commentary on how we did translating into how HE did. Sometimes he feels like I do when I let it get to me : "why bother? I can't please her, it's supposed to be
special, and she ends up frustrated which she'll ultimately take out on me."

And I do. I feel so deprived, like part of a limb has been cut off. I'm sorry, but sex is important to women too. We're not all just vessals. a lot of us really want to participate,
have orgasms, not just moan and shout "you're the best". There is someting about the
complete release, shooting star feeling of
the experience, I understand why the French call it "The little death".

It's so wierd. my mother thinks I'm a nymphomaniac simply because I really enjoy sex. It's a generation gap thing or something.
She wasn't particularly fond of it and as a seventy year old widow, she has had no desire to get into a relationship with a man
for the past 12 years "because there are all thse older men out there taking that Viagra
and that's all they want."

Anyway. It is rough. It's rough when I want to
break up with my partner off 8 years because we're both so unhappy. There are other isssues but this one has a red flag next to it.

It's rough when I go out and compulsively spend money I don't have or blow up at
a complete stranger every once in a while
especially at the health food store when the service is lousy and in there are 3 shelves devoted to herbal and vitamin formulas
to increase male potencey and "stamina" and sex drive and like half a shelf made up mostly of soy products to help women with their
periods or menopausal symptoms.

It's rough when I stay up half tthe night after making love because I'm still unsatisfied and
my partner is asleep and I get up and read or write just to push the feelings months of this
have produced - a plethora of feelings, too numerous to name. And when they're that numerous, they're hard to untangle and we carry the threads with us everywhere we go.

So how can these antidepressants be said to be "working" when the side effects are so devastating?
It isn't fair.

Can my doctor really prescribe viagra for me?
would that be bending the rules - or even breaking them? He once told me he couldn't prescribe it precisely because it wasn't FDA approved for women.

I'm seeing him at 11:00 so I'd better get some sleep. It was good to read all the comments
and feel the sensitivity in the mean's postings.
It's good to know there are men out there who are unhappy with the sexual side effects of certain drugs because they really want to make love - not just be able to "perform".

God. I tried getting myself off tonight (last night now) for a good Hour because I was almost sure it would happen - I kept getting that feeling, you know, so close. Like if I could just make it happen ,more often like, practice, see, I'd be able to achieve orrgasms with my partner. But no go. I finally gave up. And there were a lot of other things I could have been doing. But was it a waste? No. Any stimulation that increases my SensiTivitty, that starts the
brain at least trying to connect with the body and free up that block is worth feeling kind of foolish for.

Boy am I going to be insistant when I see my doctor tommorrow. I just can't make these kinds of trade offs anymore. I'm 40 years old, still youthful and in good shape (despite my chronic pain condition ) and even after 8 +
years I still love sex with my partner, still find him incredibly attractive and still have those cravings, get "you know" - "randy" is the most delicate way I can think of saying it right now - though threre have been times when my sex drive was non-existant.

I don't want to wait any longer. Why don't the peeople who come up with these drugs hear our cries? Men AND woman need a healthy
sense off thier own sexuality. Sexual dysfunction distorts that and in doing so, distorts other parts the individuals psyche,
physicality and ultimately personality and overall mental health.

Tirade over. I hope I didn't offend.

E. (arabella)

 

Re: viagra for women

Posted by Dr. Bob on May 22, 2001, at 7:32:43

In reply to Sincere apologies. It IS rough., posted by arabella on May 22, 2001, at 0:21:08

> Can my doctor really prescribe viagra for me?
> would that be bending the rules - or even breaking them? He once told me he couldn't prescribe it precisely because it wasn't FDA approved for women.

He can. It's not even bending the rules. The FDA controls marketing, not prescribing. Whether it makes sense for you is another issue, of course...

Bob

 

Re: Do it yourself viagra for women

Posted by shelliR on May 22, 2001, at 12:12:29

In reply to Re: viagra for women, posted by Dr. Bob on May 22, 2001, at 7:32:43

This is something I read a long time agao on the About Depression Forum from Netscape. I want to see if the link works. If not, I'll copy the article in the next post.

http://depression.about.com/health/depression/library/weekly/aa101899.htm

 

Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough.

Posted by sl on May 23, 2001, at 7:43:54

In reply to Sincere apologies. It IS rough., posted by arabella on May 22, 2001, at 0:21:08

Umm....two questions for you...

#1: Is it the same thing if you can't get off WITH your partner but you can with a vibrator? I guess I always just attributed it to anxiety, but now I'm not so sure...

#2: Have you tried Yohimbe? I heard good things, you just have to restrict your diet. :/

sl

 

Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough.

Posted by grapebubblegum on May 23, 2001, at 12:06:59

In reply to Sincere apologies. It IS rough., posted by arabella on May 22, 2001, at 0:21:08

I hear everything that every one of you are saying. I tried to broach this admittedly somewhat embarrassing subject in another thread but it died out fast. The only thing I don't agree to was someone's statement along the lines of "if it just means that you take longer then that should just make things better anyway."

Let's start over (forgetting women of past generations who for whatever social reasons intervened in their marriages didn't enjoy sex) and remember that women and men are almost completely analogous, physically and orgasmically, when it comes to their most private regions. Sure, the sizes and exact placement of tissue is different but we are really made of the same stuff just proportioned and creatively arranged a little differently. We even share the same hormones, just in different amounts. I'm sure that our emotions in the sexual arena are very similar with some variations that create differences in the nature (but not necessarily the AMOUNT of our sexual drives, etc...)

But let us also forget the oversimplified stereotypes that men are too quick and any woman would be happy with a partner who takes "a lot longer"; I can say from experience that some men, for whatever reason, take too long, and if you think an hour of whacking sounds painful, imagine whether a female would really enjoy an hour of attempting to reach orgasm from her male partner.

Let's also forget the stereotype that "brilliant" authors like John Gray portray when they say that women need an hour of direct stimulation before they can achieve orgasm. Ok, I am being a little mean here, but like the previous posters, I am tired of the misinformation and stereotyping that goes on out there, as well as the inequity in addressing sexual issues for men and for women (i.e., thinking male orgasms are every man's god-given right but that female orgasms are a nice bonus that they can easily live without)

Let's get real here. Both partners in a loving sexual encounter would like to experience the culmination of the encounter and both would like their partner to experience that, too. A caring partner would be concerned at the lack of ability on the part of themselves OR their partner to achieve that.

Now... To go over some of the earlier subjects discussed: I also have trouble seeing how Viagra (an erection facilitator if I understand it correctly) could resolve anorgasmia.

I guess my dose of SSRI's has never been that high or I am not quite as affected by it as some of the previous posters but the way I have explained it to my doctor (yes, it was embarrassing but she didn't press me for embarrassing details so I put it this way) is that I have experienced anorgasmia with a partner but not "by myself," but the "by myself" requires a lot more effort than I would like to expend in front of a partner or that I would ask a partner to expend, if you know what I mean. Meaning that the anorgasmia with a partner is relative to the fact that I have a limit to how much I am willing to share with a partner.. while on my own, I have gone the extra mile just to get the physical release that women (yes, really just like men, if they are healthy sexuality-wise) need as much as men do.

With a partner, though, when I have not taken SSRI's, I have been EASILY, (quickly, and with no manual stimulation required) and multi-orgasmic, so I know it is most definitely a medication side-effect issue. Therefore, my point is that the SSRI's just basically raise, to varying degrees from person to person, your orgasm threshhold. I have also found (by the "do-it-myself" method) that the quality of orgasms is not as nice. In some senses, an orgasm is an orgasm, but perhaps because it takes so much work and senses are dulled somewhat by SSRI's, it just ain't the same.

For this reason, and I am not faulting those of you who have found pharmaceutical shortcuts around SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction, because whatever works for you and makes you happy is what you should do,

I am SO IRKED by having a hampered sex life, since I have a new and wonderful fiancee, that I am ready to hang up SSRIs for good and do whatever it takes to find anything that helps me ward off the panic attacks that are my primary psychological complaint, if I need medication at all.

Currenly I'm ramping down the Paxil and taking very small amounts of Clonazepam (12.5 mg three times a day, believe it or not, has a strong beneficial effect on me). I can tell you that it took TWO DAYS ONLY of cutting my Paxil in half from 20 mg to 10 mg per day to restore my orgasmic function with my partner. Just adding in my $.02 worth. Sorry it was so long; looks more like $2.00 worth. :o/

 

Re: Do it yourself viagra for women

Posted by Lorraine on May 23, 2001, at 13:12:32

In reply to Re: Do it yourself viagra for women, posted by shelliR on May 22, 2001, at 12:12:29

Thank-you so much for posting this link. I'm going to try it. I have no trouble with orgasm or even desire to engage in sex now. The problem is anesthesia of the clitoris. So this sounds like just the ticket. I had been thinking about testosterone cream or other hormone creams because it seems clear (tho nothing ever is) that something applied to the labia and clitoris to increase sensation is what's needed.

 

Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough.

Posted by Lorraine on May 23, 2001, at 13:17:23

In reply to Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough., posted by grapebubblegum on May 23, 2001, at 12:06:59

You sound like someone who drug holidays would work for. They do require advance planning.

 

Re: Do it yourself viagra for women

Posted by grapebubblegum on May 23, 2001, at 13:43:30

In reply to Re: Do it yourself viagra for women, posted by shelliR on May 22, 2001, at 12:12:29

Thanks, but no drug holidays for me. I am just so fed up with the various SSRI side effects. I think I have been barking up the wrong tree by using them. Like I said, I don't consider myself "depressed" in the classic sense, or maybe not in any sense. That is a label that has always been ascribed to me, but it is often said that anyone suffering panic attacks will eventually seem depressed in the aftermath.

A discussion elsewhere on the board and a link to the bearpaw page on panic disorder is inspiring me to open my mind to another approach. My doctor gives me some leeway to make lateral changes in my meds, i.e. adjusting the dosages of the meds she has prescribed. She believes that people need to get to know their own reactions to meds and does not discourage some tweaking thereof. In return, I keep her informed. I think she is pretty smart - how else can a patient and doctor really work out what is best for the patient with input only from the doctor? The patient has a valuable opinion in all of this, and has a viewpoint the doctor cannot fully tap into without the patient's interaction with his/her plan of treatment.

I would imagine this is an improvement on doctor/patient relationships of years gone by (and sometimes of today) in which a doctor only issues orders and doesn't want to hear a lot of suggestions from his/her patient. (Not at all snippy-snapping at you, Lorraine, just going onto a new soapbox today. Seems to be a soapbox day... hmmm... cutting my paxil giving me a little bit of my personality back? Food for thought.)

 

Both sexes struggle with Rx-caused sexual dysfunct

Posted by grapebubblegum on May 23, 2001, at 13:53:55

In reply to Re: Do it yourself viagra for women, posted by grapebubblegum on May 23, 2001, at 13:43:30

I just thought I'd change the title since we are no longer discussing do-it yourself viagra and I always forget to change the subject line.

 

Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough.

Posted by cole on May 23, 2001, at 15:52:20

In reply to Sincere apologies. It IS rough., posted by arabella on May 22, 2001, at 0:21:08

I have a few ideas, having taken zoloft in the past. The main reason I decided to look for new meds was because of the anorgasmia, but I found that the zoloft was causing more problems than I thought (I realized this once I was off of the stuff). It makes me agitated, volatile, and worsens my insommnia. I had begun taking it at such an early age, I thought that the anorgasmia was my own physical problem, and was amazed when I went off of it that I was able to climax. When I read your post, I started wondering if it isn't causing more problems than you think. Maybe there is a more effective med out there for you? Remeron has been great for my depression, it helps me sleep, and though it decreases my sex drive some, I have no trouble with anorgasmia now.

> It's so wierd. my mother thinks I'm a nymphomaniac simply because I really enjoy sex. It's a generation gap thing or something.

The zoloft made me hypersexual, but I too couldn't climax, so I was chasing the dragon, so to speak. I am less sexually aggressive now, but I enjoy sex more.


> Anyway. It is rough. It's rough when I want to
> break up with my partner off 8 years because we're both so unhappy. There are other isssues but this one has a red flag next to it.
>
> It's rough when I go out and compulsively spend money I don't have or blow up at
> a complete stranger every once in a while
> especially at the health food store when the service is lousy and in there are 3 shelves devoted to herbal and vitamin formulas
> to increase male potencey and "stamina" and sex drive and like half a shelf made up mostly of soy products to help women with their
> periods or menopausal symptoms.

I don't necessarily think you can blame all of this on the anorgasmia, but I can totally see where you are coming from. It really is frustrating.

>
> It's rough when I stay up half tthe night after making love because I'm still unsatisfied and
> my partner is asleep and I get up and read or write just to push the feelings months of this
> have produced - a plethora of feelings, too numerous to name. And when they're that numerous, they're hard to untangle and we carry the threads with us everywhere we go.
>
> So how can these antidepressants be said to be "working" when the side effects are so devastating?
> It isn't fair.
>
> Can my doctor really prescribe viagra for me?
> would that be bending the rules - or even breaking them? He once told me he couldn't prescribe it precisely because it wasn't FDA approved for women.
>
> I'm seeing him at 11:00 so I'd better get some sleep. It was good to read all the comments
> and feel the sensitivity in the mean's postings.
> It's good to know there are men out there who are unhappy with the sexual side effects of certain drugs because they really want to make love - not just be able to "perform".
>

>
> Boy am I going to be insistant when I see my doctor tommorrow. I just can't make these kinds of trade offs anymore. I'm 40 years old, still youthful and in good shape (despite my chronic pain condition ) and even after 8 +
> years I still love sex with my partner, still find him incredibly attractive and still have those cravings, get "you know" - "randy" is the most delicate way I can think of saying it right now - though threre have been times when my sex drive was non-existant.
>
> I don't want to wait any longer. Why don't the peeople who come up with these drugs hear our cries? Men AND woman need a healthy
> sense off thier own sexuality. Sexual dysfunction distorts that and in doing so, distorts other parts the individuals psyche,
> physicality and ultimately personality and overall mental health.
>

I think this is where we have to advocate for ourselves. Find a new pdoc if the current one isn't listening to your needs. My old pdoc kept me on zoloft for 7 yrs because it had lifted my depression at one time, and she didn't want to take the time to try out new meds, even though I was realizing that the zoloft had begun to make me feel worse in many ways. When I found my new doc I came in with the idea that I was not willing to take SSRI's any longer, and we were able to eventually find a solution.

cole

 

Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough.

Posted by grapebubblegum on May 23, 2001, at 20:03:57

In reply to Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough., posted by cole on May 23, 2001, at 15:52:20

Yes, and I also have found that the SSRIs were causing more problems than I thought. I was up to a high dose of zoloft (200 mg per day) and STILL had breakthrough panic attacks for a while, plus, as soon as I went over 100 mg. of zoloft I had the feeling of music playing or conversations going around in my head (not delusional stuff, just the usual tune in your head but louder and more disruptive.) Then my legs were so restless I was stretching and flexing them all night, and while I did sleep, I had that half-asleep feeling all night.

When I switched to Paxil for the above reasons, I immediately noticed a return to better sleep. I was not restless, but if I did happen to awaken in the night, I'd have a feeling of, "I'll just stay up and play on the computer for an hour" which is NOT like me. Then when I cut my Paxil dose in half (down to 10 mg. per day - is that even therapeutic?) even BEFORE I added in the clonazepam, I noticed a return to truly restful sleep like I haven't had in six months. And besides getting my sexual function back, I am not craving carbs all the time or feeling half-rested all the time. It will take a lot to get me back on those SSRI's again. I'm not trying to badmouth them as much as I am just chronicling my own recent epiphany. I've been on and off them (more off than on) for the last ten years, and I've used four different kinds, and I can see that there really is value in them but I am starting to see now that maybe it was like using a sledgehammer to hammer in a poster brad. They served their purposes but I wonder if there was some overkill.

 

a sequey thread, though the old one is still vital

Posted by arabella on May 23, 2001, at 23:47:57

In reply to Re: Sincere apologies. It IS rough., posted by grapebubblegum on May 23, 2001, at 20:03:57

Grapebubblegum: I'm reaiiy glad you've found some relief through the use of/switch to Paxil. I don't mean to sound competely ignorant, but isn't Paxil also an SSRI? I've heard of people's symptoms abating by just switching to a different SSRI but that's never worked for me.
I saw my doctor and he told me I could go off the Zoloft, and in fact, all medication at some point if thtat's what I really want but I was dissapointed to hear him say that he wouldn't prescribe an antidote to the anogasmia - specifically not Vialgra because, he says, the FDA, says the drug is, "not for women".
So that was that, even though the half-life of some SSRI's are quite long and it'll be a while before I "get my lags back" so to speak.

Unfortunately, When I asked him about my newly diagnosed obcessive-compulsive disorder and agoraphobia, he said SSRI's are the only things that work for OCD and I'm already on Klonopin which helps with panic disorder, which he said is at the root of my
agorophobia and there's nothing specifically designed for that particular ailment - except maybe SSRI's, which I told him just make me more depressed and YES! volotile and do seem to disturb my sleep - or make my being awake half the night seem appealing (then I'm truly alone) except that I sleep the morning away and feel like a toatal loser.

So I've fallen into the tiger chasing tail, snake consuming itself, dragon chasing revolving door of meds and at this pint, despite my fear of going manic, I am far more concerned at the possibility that I've been on certain of thse meds so long they really just don't work, or we keep raising the dose and I'm experienceing the rebound effect or I'm just dependent on them when I should just be toughing it out with my psychotherapist, a process that yes, has caused me to be aware of things occurring for the first time - or at least in a new enough way
- for me to be like, hey, I don't think all my problems are med-related.

I've become anorexic - without any of the accompanying symptoms one would expect like body image obcession etc. It's just plain aversion to practically all food except peanut butter or soy cheese sandwiches (plain - no veg.) on spelt bread. Cereal with protien powder to help maintain my weight, bananas, milk for coffee, and high protien shakes.
usually after going all day without food - sometimes eating as late as 1a.m. because I feel I really have to. And I've been considered a healthy eater to a fault by everyone I know.

Since beginning psychotherapy for the firest time in all my 40 years, I've remembered things about my childhood that are pretty
creepy and have to do with my mother.
Hence, I've been dissociating, something I've probaby done all my life to varyng degrees, but this time, I have an intimate witness. I know I've cried uncontrollably for periods when trying to tell him about my childhood memories but later learn that not only have minutes passed, but hours. The same is true of my recent fits of anger. I don't remember
what I've said or even done (Smoking? At the Reservoir??)

and have just recently become in time with how good I am at blaming, where previously I just passively felt guilt and anger (unexpressed) until I blow up and that isn't ever productive. Now I 've started to realize what how absolutely insensitive and mean I can be to others where I've always played the vitctim. I guess I'm starting to see I really don't live in a bubble which arrows can penetrate
but can't be slung from.

And the OCD, that's really different from hypomania. It really is OCD - the obcessive compulsiveness differing in content and context from day to day, week to week.

It's funny how easy it is to trick myself or diquise what's going on by using subtle variations,

But as hard as the psychotherapy is, and the
hard it is to see and try to understand the meaning of the real and unreal world of my mind - and the difference, though usually it makes no difference if either or both tap a very real emotion - for the first time I really do feel like I might be able to live without meds someday , and treat myself/be treated more holistically, and give myself a break rather than take more pills when I have real things to be unhappy about.

I want things to change, but I hope someday to paraphrase one of us by saying, "how I learned to stop taking pills and love it"

I've done it before. I lived med free for ten years after the worst mani episode of my life and six months in a state hospital. I guess that scared me "sane", "Straight" - however you want to put it but essentially meaning able to roll with the punches and still love life, love myself.

I'm sorry I babble so much but this is the most
caring, sharing forum and I just stumbled into it. Don't blame me too much if I stumble around in it a lot. I'm still new to sharing with others dealing with similar issues.
But thank god/s you're all out there and thanks Dr. Bob.

 

Re: a sequey thread, though the old one is still vital

Posted by grapebubblegum on May 24, 2001, at 11:16:46

In reply to a sequey thread, though the old one is still vital, posted by arabella on May 23, 2001, at 23:47:57

Um... I may have been confusing but I meant that the Paxil helped SOME in the arena of sleep and agitition, (as compared to Zoloft) but the sexual dysfunction remained the same.

Now that I have all but quit Paxil as well (down to 10 mg. per day) I sleep GREAT and do not feel restless in the night or fidgety and my sexual dysfunction seems cured or at least nearly cured.

 

Re: a sequey thread, though the old one is still vital

Posted by grapebubblegum on May 24, 2001, at 11:26:46

In reply to a sequey thread, though the old one is still vital, posted by arabella on May 23, 2001, at 23:47:57

Now that I've read your post more carefully, Arabella, it sounds like you've done a LOT of work. I commend you on your self-discovery; those issues are not easy to confront in yourself and it requires true cojones to look at yourself and break through your "victim" armor to see that you may have, in fact, been harsh and nasty to others. Sounds like you are well on the path of "growing up" that we all should navigate (not everyone does, lamentably) at some point in our lives, though surprisingly many of us don't tackle that journey until we are in our thirties or later.

Sounds like you are just very sensitive to the side effects of SSRI's, to the point of not eating. They exert only a mild appetite-suppressant effect on most of us.

Is there not another medication unrelated to SSRI's that could help with OCD etc., without causing sexual, appetite, agitation, and sleep disturbance side effects? Anyone know?

ANYONE????


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