Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 62396

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Tyrosine questions

Posted by tresni on May 10, 2001, at 15:40:14

This is my first time posting, and I have really appreciated reading everyone's valuable input and experiences. To avoid the risk
of putting everyone to sleep, I'll try to sum up my situation briefly. I have suffered from mild depression much of my life. (I don't
have the blues, I have the blahs). I self medicated with methamphetamine for 10 years. 6 months ago I quit & decided to seek
professional help instead. I was diagnosed with inattentive type ADD. I was put on (and currently take) Ritalin and Concerta.
They do help. Without them I feel more depressed, disinterested and brain-dead. About a week ago I began taking the amino
acid l-tyrosine (800mg 1 hour before breakfast & lunch) in addition to Concerta & Ritalin. I have already noticed positive
results. I have learned a lot about l-tyrosine so far but still have these unanswered questions:
1. How long does someone have to take l-tyrosine to experience the maximum effectiveness?
2. Is there a limit to how long someone should take l-tyrosine?
3. Does a tolerance develop?
4. What is the most effective daily dosage?
5. Is it O.K. to take l-tyrosine with methylphenidate?
Thank You So Much for any input!!!
Tresni

 

Re: Tyrosine questions

Posted by SalArmy4me on May 10, 2001, at 23:36:08

In reply to Tyrosine questions, posted by tresni on May 10, 2001, at 15:40:14

You might have better luck with inositol or dietary tryptophan: http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/aug/sld040.html

> This is my first time posting, and I have really appreciated reading everyone's valuable input and experiences. To avoid the risk
> of putting everyone to sleep, I'll try to sum up my situation briefly. I have suffered from mild depression much of my life. (I don't
> have the blues, I have the blahs). I self medicated with methamphetamine for 10 years. 6 months ago I quit & decided to seek
> professional help instead. I was diagnosed with inattentive type ADD. I was put on (and currently take) Ritalin and Concerta.
> They do help. Without them I feel more depressed, disinterested and brain-dead. About a week ago I began taking the amino
> acid l-tyrosine (800mg 1 hour before breakfast & lunch) in addition to Concerta & Ritalin. I have already noticed positive
> results. I have learned a lot about l-tyrosine so far but still have these unanswered questions:
> 1. How long does someone have to take l-tyrosine to experience the maximum effectiveness?
> 2. Is there a limit to how long someone should take l-tyrosine?
> 3. Does a tolerance develop?
> 4. What is the most effective daily dosage?
> 5. Is it O.K. to take l-tyrosine with methylphenidate?
> Thank You So Much for any input!!!
> Tresni

 

Re: Tyrosine questions

Posted by Thrud on May 10, 2001, at 23:51:47

In reply to Tyrosine questions, posted by tresni on May 10, 2001, at 15:40:14

I took 1000mg per day. I started to get full effect after about 2 weeks. While it lasted, it was the best antidepressant I had ever had. It also gave me profound sexual dysfunction. After about 2 months of usage it started to fade until by 3 months it was definitely no use to me. Don't let my experience be a guide: everyone responds differently.

Thrud

 

Re: Tyrosine questions

Posted by JohnL on May 11, 2001, at 4:31:03

In reply to Tyrosine questions, posted by tresni on May 10, 2001, at 15:40:14

Everything you've said would seem to suggest you are on the right track, and that the chemistry responsible for your symptoms is dopamine chemistry. That doesn't surprise me because very often it seems dysthymias and long term depressions are dopamine related, unlike severe depressive bouts which tend to be serotonin related. There is nothing in literature to support this, but it's just what I've observed over the years taking note of other people's struggles and what works and doesn't work in different situations.

If tyrosine is going to be helpful to you, I would assume it would do so anywhere from day 1 to week 6. If nothing by week 6, I personally would discontinue.

I don't think there is anything wrong with taking tyrosine longterm. It's just a concentrated supplement of what is found naturally in food. There is a feedback mechanism where excess tyrosine will discarded. No matter how much you take or for how long, there is a limit to how much your body will accept. The rest goes out as waste. That may or may not affect whether it is effective for you or not.

Tolerance is a realistic possibility, and can happen with anything.

The most effective dose is the one that works. Experimentation is the only way to find out.

As long as it isn't causing increased blood pressure, irritibility or anxiety, I see no problem taking it with ritalin. They both work on the same chemistry. It could be better than either alone, or it could go too far causing stuff like anxiety, irritibility or anger.

For depressions like yours, I prefer cocktails that include either Zyprexa, Risperdal, or Amisulpride. For example, regardless of what happens with tyrosine, I think the odds are real good that one of the 3 antipsychotics would go very well with ritalin and completely wipe out all your symptoms. Something like Ritalin+Zyprexa, Ritalin+Prozac, Ritalin+Zyprexa+Prozac, or similar combinations with Risperdal or Amisulpride instead of Zyprexa....these are top combos I would keep in mind. In your shoes, with the benefit of hindsight, I would narrow my universe to just those drugs and experiment with various combinations of them.
John

 

acetyl, DMAE Re: Tyrosine questions

Posted by maniz on May 11, 2001, at 13:08:23

In reply to Tyrosine questions, posted by tresni on May 10, 2001, at 15:40:14

Hi tresni,

You might want to consider N-acetyl-L-tyrosine, which is more expensive but more bioavailable. www.sourcenaturals.com has a formula with acetyl-l-tyrosine, B6 and folic acid.

As tyrosine converts to thyroid hormones, I would check for low thyroid. You can use the Barnes method of testing underarm temp upon awakening, I know it works from experience.

For ADD you can try DMAE (cheap and safe). It is a mild stimulant. Takes a week or two to make effect. It is a choline precursor. caution if hypertensive.

If tolerance develope you can try rest periods or inositol (an´t remember the URL I read)

Also, dl-phenylalanine is reported to help, I am not sure.

I do not know how all these can interact with your medication.

Good luck

> This is my first time posting, and I have really appreciated reading everyone's valuable input and experiences. To avoid the risk
> of putting everyone to sleep, I'll try to sum up my situation briefly. I have suffered from mild depression much of my life. (I don't
> have the blues, I have the blahs). I self medicated with methamphetamine for 10 years. 6 months ago I quit & decided to seek
> professional help instead. I was diagnosed with inattentive type ADD. I was put on (and currently take) Ritalin and Concerta.
> They do help. Without them I feel more depressed, disinterested and brain-dead. About a week ago I began taking the amino
> acid l-tyrosine (800mg 1 hour before breakfast & lunch) in addition to Concerta & Ritalin. I have already noticed positive
> results. I have learned a lot about l-tyrosine so far but still have these unanswered questions:
> 1. How long does someone have to take l-tyrosine to experience the maximum effectiveness?
> 2. Is there a limit to how long someone should take l-tyrosine?
> 3. Does a tolerance develop?
> 4. What is the most effective daily dosage?
> 5. Is it O.K. to take l-tyrosine with methylphenidate?
> Thank You So Much for any input!!!
> Tresni

 

Re: Tyrosine questions

Posted by tresni on May 11, 2001, at 13:57:24

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions, posted by JohnL on May 11, 2001, at 4:31:03

Hi,
and thank you all for your suggestions. It's been 2 weeks now on tyrosine and I seem to be feeling more normal & dealing with a full head every day. Gosh, I even got excited to see responses to my post! It's good to know there are alternatives to look into if needed. Well, back off to work I go... Thanks again for your input! Sincerely, Tresni

 

Re: Tyrosine questions

Posted by stjames on May 11, 2001, at 15:51:08

In reply to Tyrosine questions, posted by tresni on May 10, 2001, at 15:40:14

Supplementing with aminos will not have an effects on mood because...

1) Mood, ect is not caused by a lack of neurotransmitters. It is a lack of regulation.
2) Even if mood was caused by a lack of aminos and/or NT's, taking in additional aminos does not
produce additional NT's.
3) Tyrosine and all the aminos are in any food that contains proteins, more than enough to meet
daily requirements. Any supplements you take are washed out of the body.

James

 

Re: Tyrosine questions, Tresni and » stjames

Posted by Sulpicia on May 11, 2001, at 19:24:59

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions, posted by stjames on May 11, 2001, at 15:51:08

> Supplementing with aminos will not have an effects on mood because...
>
> 1) Mood, ect is not caused by a lack of neurotransmitters. It is a lack of regulation.
> 2) Even if mood was caused by a lack of aminos and/or NT's, taking in additional aminos does not
> produce additional NT's.
> 3) Tyrosine and all the aminos are in any food that contains proteins, more than enough to meet
> daily requirements. Any supplements you take are washed out of the body.
>
> James

James--
May I quote the above?? It's perfect and of course I'll cite you...

Tresni--
here's a link on DMAE
http://www.tnp.com/substance.asp?ID=978
It's not entirely safe *and* it doesn't look like we
know how it works.
Forgive me for asking the obvious but if you experience depression
along with ADD, like me and zillions of others BTW, why not try
anti-depress. meds?
Your pdoc needs a bit of skill bcuz not all ADs go well with stimulants
but many people, myself included, do extremely well with this combo.
Aside from James' point above, supplements make me nervous bcuz there's
little to no regulation of them. For all you know you could be ingesting
powdered weasel guts. I do realize that quality manufacturers can produce
superb products.
I'm also nervous about interactions with meds -- DMAE and ritalin can both
lower seizure thresholds in susceptible folks: what else tho? And tyrosine?
Have you tried the med checker at DrKoop.com? I *think* it does supplements
and vitamins, along with food and meds.

Good luck and be careful.
S.

 

Re: Tyrosine questions, Tresni and » Sulpicia

Posted by tresni on May 11, 2001, at 19:55:59

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions, Tresni and » stjames, posted by Sulpicia on May 11, 2001, at 19:24:59

> Tresni--
> here's a link on DMAE
> http://www.tnp.com/substance.asp?ID=978
> It's not entirely safe *and* it doesn't look like we
> know how it works.
> Forgive me for asking the obvious but if you experience depression
> along with ADD, like me and zillions of others BTW, why not try
> anti-depress. meds?

Hi Sulpicia,
You know, I have wrestled back & forth with this option. I took Prozac in the 80s when it first came out, and I did Very Well on it. The part I hesitate about is the sexual dysfunction associated with SSRIs (I'm getting married in October!) I'm going to talk to my pdoc (i gather this is the abbreviation used for psychiatrist?) about Prozac on my next visit. It's looking like the good might outweigh the bad, so it's worth a try.

> Your pdoc needs a bit of skill bcuz not all ADs go well with stimulants
> but many people, myself included, do extremely well with this combo.

Sounds hopeful...!

> Aside from James' point above, supplements make me nervous bcuz there's
> little to no regulation of them. For all you know you could be ingesting
> powdered weasel guts.

I've probably done worse ;)

>I do realize that quality manufacturers can produce
> superb products.
> I'm also nervous about interactions with meds -- DMAE and ritalin can both
> lower seizure thresholds in susceptible folks: what else tho? And tyrosine?
> Have you tried the med checker at DrKoop.com? I *think* it does supplements
> and vitamins, along with food and meds.

Thanks for the link, I'm hungry for info!

> Good luck and be careful.
> S.

Thanks!

 

Re: Tyrosine questions » tresni

Posted by Sulpicia on May 11, 2001, at 21:36:38

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions, Tresni and » Sulpicia, posted by tresni on May 11, 2001, at 19:55:59

> > Tresni--
> > here's a link on DMAE
> > http://www.tnp.com/substance.asp?ID=978
> > It's not entirely safe *and* it doesn't look like we
> > know how it works.
> > Forgive me for asking the obvious but if you experience depression
> > along with ADD, like me and zillions of others BTW, why not try
> > anti-depress. meds?
>
> Hi Sulpicia,
> You know, I have wrestled back & forth with this option. I took Prozac in the 80s when it first came out, and I did Very Well on it. The part I hesitate about is the sexual dysfunction associated with SSRIs (I'm getting married in October!) I'm going to talk to my pdoc (i gather this is the abbreviation used for psychiatrist?) about Prozac on my next visit. It's looking like the good might outweigh the bad, so it's worth a try.
>
> > Your pdoc needs a bit of skill bcuz not all ADs go well with stimulants
> > but many people, myself included, do extremely well with this combo.
>
> Sounds hopeful...!
>
> > Aside from James' point above, supplements make me nervous bcuz there's
> > little to no regulation of them. For all you know you could be ingesting
> > powdered weasel guts.
>
> I've probably done worse ;)
>
> >I do realize that quality manufacturers can produce
> > superb products.
> > I'm also nervous about interactions with meds -- DMAE and ritalin can both
> > lower seizure thresholds in susceptible folks: what else tho? And tyrosine?
> > Have you tried the med checker at DrKoop.com? I *think* it does supplements
> > and vitamins, along with food and meds.
>
> Thanks for the link, I'm hungry for info!
>
> > Good luck and be careful.
> > S.
>
> Thanks!

Ditto on the SSRIs. Been there, in fact, precisely there. Did not like it
AT ALL.
Currently I take a tricyclic called tofranil. They are older than the new
flashy meds and highly effective. Some people have trouble with the side
effects, which can include lightheadedness, dry mouth etc. It's also important
that your doc checks your heart since there is a *very* rare but dangerous
cardiac conduction problem that can happen.
I've seen nothing in the scientific literature about this but perhaps you might
find Dr. Steven Amen's website helpful. He has an on-line diagnostic test for what
he calls the different types of ADD/HD. I don't know about the validity of the tests
but his recommendations are interesting, especially in terms of AD suggestions.

There is also a site that was once mentioned -- for sure somebody on this board will
know it -- it tells you what kind of AD med you might do best on based on your specific
symptoms. Possible?

The other thing to try is a PubMed search on depression. Not for the faint of heart.
I've seen *early* results with inositol, SAMe, St. John's Wart etc. The studies are small
and frankly, if you were related to me, I'd try to talk you out of using anything but rx meds.

I've been dealing with depression for what seems like forever. Aside from AD meds as nessecary
the absolute BEST thing to prevent or relieve low-level depression that I've found is running.
I know this sounds weird, but coming from me, Ms. Science, Research, and Medicine, well... all I can
say is that it works. And lest you think it comes easy, I've been smoking since my early teens and am
NOT at all built for running.

I wish you the best. Do be careful.
S.

 

Re: Tyrosine questions, Tresni and

Posted by Maniz on May 12, 2001, at 16:02:35

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions, Tresni and » stjames, posted by Sulpicia on May 11, 2001, at 19:24:59

According to Dr. Kunin (unpublished, from a list I think).

DMAE can increase MAO. So better check for interactions.

People with low MAO seem to respond better to DMAE and those with
high MAO can have adverse effects like irritability and headache.

Another side effect can be neck muscle tension.

The only serious side effect I have read about is a possible increase in blood pressure.

It is better to take rest periods to avoid over stimulation an irritability.

Regarding amino acids, according to Dr. Wurtman of MIT (there is material on the WWW) an increase in dietary amino acids and choline can increase levels of neurotransmitters.

Who is right I do not know.

This seems to be a good article:
The Role of Protein and Amino Acids in Sustaining and Enhancing Performance
(1999)
http://www.nap.edu/books/0309063469/html/331.html

BTW, where is Dr. Steven Amen´s website?.

Thanks.


> > Supplementing with aminos will not have an effects on mood because...
> >
> > 1) Mood, ect is not caused by a lack of neurotransmitters. It is a lack of regulation.
> > 2) Even if mood was caused by a lack of aminos and/or NT's, taking in additional aminos does not
> > produce additional NT's.
> > 3) Tyrosine and all the aminos are in any food that contains proteins, more than enough to meet
> > daily requirements. Any supplements you take are washed out of the body.
> >
> > James
>
> James--
> May I quote the above?? It's perfect and of course I'll cite you...
>
> Tresni--
> here's a link on DMAE
> http://www.tnp.com/substance.asp?ID=978
> It's not entirely safe *and* it doesn't look like we
> know how it works.
> Forgive me for asking the obvious but if you experience depression
> along with ADD, like me and zillions of others BTW, why not try
> anti-depress. meds?
> Your pdoc needs a bit of skill bcuz not all ADs go well with stimulants
> but many people, myself included, do extremely well with this combo.
> Aside from James' point above, supplements make me nervous bcuz there's
> little to no regulation of them. For all you know you could be ingesting
> powdered weasel guts. I do realize that quality manufacturers can produce
> superb products.
> I'm also nervous about interactions with meds -- DMAE and ritalin can both
> lower seizure thresholds in susceptible folks: what else tho? And tyrosine?
> Have you tried the med checker at DrKoop.com? I *think* it does supplements
> and vitamins, along with food and meds.
>
> Good luck and be careful.
> S.

 

websites to Dr. Amen's online ADD tests

Posted by tresni on May 12, 2001, at 22:28:52

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions, Tresni and, posted by Maniz on May 12, 2001, at 16:02:35

Here are a couple websites for Dr. Daniel Amen's online ADD tests:
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/default.asp
http://www.amenclinic.com/ac/addtests/default.asp
Enjoy!
Tresni

 

Re: Tyrosine questions (and my run-on sentence) » Sulpicia

Posted by tresni on May 12, 2001, at 22:49:28

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions » tresni, posted by Sulpicia on May 11, 2001, at 21:36:38

> I've been dealing with depression for what seems like forever. Aside from AD meds as nessecary
> the absolute BEST thing to prevent or relieve low-level depression that I've found is running.
> I know this sounds weird, but coming from me, Ms. Science, Research, and Medicine, well... all I can
> say is that it works. And lest you think it comes easy, I've been smoking since my early teens and am
> NOT at all built for running.
>
> I wish you the best. Do be careful.
> S.

Hi S.,
I must say I couldn't agree with you more. Running has saved my butt...in more ways than one. ha-ha. I started out of desperation last October when i stopped using meth. In fact, I ran (& walked a little) in the Los Angeles Revlon 5K Run/Walk for Women this morning. It was my first event. It was very motivational to keep up the running! Lord knows I need all the motivation I can get. Alright, gotta run...(AAAAAAHHH, couldn't resist)
Tresni.

 

Re: Tyrosine questions

Posted by BrainSurge on August 18, 2001, at 8:50:44

In reply to Re: Tyrosine questions, posted by stjames on May 11, 2001, at 15:51:08

> Supplementing with aminos will not have an effects on mood because...
>
> 1) Mood, ect is not caused by a lack of neurotransmitters. It is a lack of regulation.
> 2) Even if mood was caused by a lack of aminos and/or NT's, taking in additional aminos does not
> produce additional NT's.
> 3) Tyrosine and all the aminos are in any food that contains proteins, more than enough to meet
> daily requirements. Any supplements you take are washed out of the body.
>
> James

James, I'm sure your post is well intentioned, but it's absolutely wrong. I have had great result in taking l-tyrosine, in combination with an amino acid complex (Amino 1000 by NOW), and vitamin C. The only down side has been the fact that I've built up a tolerance to it after 5 months or so.

Later in the day, I also take a good multi-vitamin, B-complex, Cal/Mag, and various individual B vitamins. I would highly recommend the above formula to anyone with a need for more serotonin. Anyone wanting more details about this combination, just let me know.

Ron


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