![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Billb on August 18, 2000, at 21:14:27
What is your life story Oddzilla? Do you have a beef with Dr. Bob or anyone else on PB? How do you feel that you contribute to PB? What is your favorite colour.
Thanks
Curious George
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 19, 2000, at 0:49:55
In reply to Oddzilla, posted by Billb on August 18, 2000, at 21:14:27
> What is your life story Oddzilla? Do you have a beef with Dr. Bob or anyone else on PB? How do you feel that you contribute to PB? What is your favorite colour.
Please, we don't need more provocation here. Everyone should be allowed to share as much or as little as, and when, he or she feels comfortable.
Bob
Posted by Greg on August 19, 2000, at 17:40:27
In reply to Re: live and let live, posted by Dr. Bob on August 19, 2000, at 0:49:55
Dr.Bob,
I'm going to allow my current manic condition to run wild here.
You're right, we don't need further provocation here. So, my question is, What are YOU going to do about it? This current string of BS has been going on for over 5 months now and all I ever see from you is "Please be civil". When I left a recent post addressing what had been going on here, instead of commenting on the intent of the post, you "scolded' me for the use of words you deemed to be innappropriate. I was sharing what I felt comfortable with. You may moderate this site, but it belongs to the rest of us as much as it does you. How many more valuable contributors have to be pushed away before you start getting pro-active about these constant disruptions? What about the new people who come here looking for help and support and are frightened away? You have options to make this stop and you know it.
I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here and I respect you, I really do. But it's time for you to start defending the people who REALLY care about PB and rid us of those who don't. Let's get back to business, OK?
The ball's in your court.
If something isn't done soon, I will join the others who have had enough and leave Babble for good.
Greg
> Please, we don't need more provocation here. Everyone should be allowed to share as much or as little as, and when, he or she feels comfortable.
>
> Bob
Posted by tina on August 19, 2000, at 18:45:24
In reply to Re: live and let live » Dr. Bob, posted by Greg on August 19, 2000, at 17:40:27
>I have to say I whole-heartedly agree with Greg, Doc. You have to take charge and stop standing on the sidelines.
Posted by paul on August 20, 2000, at 1:52:58
In reply to WOO-HOO!! GO GET 'UM GREG, posted by tina on August 19, 2000, at 18:45:24
it IS about time something was done. thanks greg!!!
p(c(l))
Posted by JohnL on August 20, 2000, at 4:34:49
In reply to Re: live and let live » Dr. Bob, posted by Greg on August 19, 2000, at 17:40:27
> Dr.Bob,
>
> I'm going to allow my current manic condition to run wild here.
...This is a good safe place to do that.
> You may moderate this site, but it belongs to the rest of us as much as it does you.
....Wrongo. It doesn't 'belong' to anyone else at all. It's Dr Bob's completely. It's cool we can use it, but the fact is, he's the sole creator and owner of the stage on which the rest of us are kindly allowed to play.
>How many more valuable contributors have to be pushed away before you start getting pro-active about these constant disruptions?
....I've been a regular here for more than two years and haven't seen any 'valuable' contributors pushed away. The valuable ones don't tend to migrate.>What about the new people who come here looking for help and support and are frightened away?
....One or two offensive threads in the entire page is going to 'scare' someone off? Even the worst there is at this board is tame compared to real life in the real world.>You have options to make this stop and you know it.
....I'm fine with babysitters staying out of it. If someone doesn't like something, it's real easy to deal with. Go to the upper right hand corner of the computer screen and click on the X. Poof, all gone. Wish I could do that in real life.
> I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here and I respect you, I really do.
....I doubt seriously anyone is stuck. The board's moderator deserves respect as a medical professional, not a babysitter.>But it's time for you to start defending the people who REALLY care about PB and rid us of those who don't. Let's get back to business, OK?
....I don't think anyone ever got away from 'business'. Take a look at the rest of the page...PB flourishes as if nothing ever happened. And in reality, nothing really did happen. A mere pebble on the beach.
> If something isn't done soon, I will join the others who have had enough and leave Babble for good.
....My my, tisk tisk. It's nice you're here, and some of us would hate to see you go. But if you need an environment with a babysitter and thorough sterilization, and if you don't have the self control to click on the X when you see something that bothers you, maybe this was never an appropriate venue for you anyway. Try this one instead...www.healthboards.com. Their boards are fully moderated with a fulltime babysitter. I didn't like that, but you might.
>
>
>Please, we don't need more provocation here.
....If someone feels provocated, click on the X and go to a different thread.>Everyone should be allowed to share as much or as little as, and when, he or she feels comfortable.
....As far as I can remember, they always have been.....Please keep in mind, this board is populated by a wide array of personalities, many of which are under the influence of out-of-control mental conditions or excruciating medications. People who post offensive threads are obviously not in their right minds. Offfensive or not, I don't think anyone should be shutout or babysat. If a post looks offensive as you start reading it, don't finish reading it. Click the X and go to another thread. For every bad thread, there are at least a couple dozen other real good ones to choose from. Why anyone even gives a bad thread a moment's notice is beyond my comprehension. Why focus on a bit of compost but not the flowers all around?
Posted by JohnL on August 20, 2000, at 4:37:34
In reply to WOO-HOO!! GO GET 'UM GREG, posted by tina on August 19, 2000, at 18:45:24
If anyone feels the need for a board with a fulltime moderator, I might suggest going to www.healthboards.com. Psychobabble is far better, but if you need babysitting, there are other places.
John
Posted by tina on August 20, 2000, at 9:40:42
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters., posted by JohnL on August 20, 2000, at 4:34:49
Petulent self-rightousness isn't required either John.
> > Dr.Bob,
> >
> > I'm going to allow my current manic condition to run wild here.
> ...This is a good safe place to do that.
>
> > You may moderate this site, but it belongs to the rest of us as much as it does you.
> ....Wrongo. It doesn't 'belong' to anyone else at all. It's Dr Bob's completely. It's cool we can use it, but the fact is, he's the sole creator and owner of the stage on which the rest of us are kindly allowed to play.
>
> >How many more valuable contributors have to be pushed away before you start getting pro-active about these constant disruptions?
> ....I've been a regular here for more than two years and haven't seen any 'valuable' contributors pushed away. The valuable ones don't tend to migrate.
>
> >What about the new people who come here looking for help and support and are frightened away?
> ....One or two offensive threads in the entire page is going to 'scare' someone off? Even the worst there is at this board is tame compared to real life in the real world.
>
> >You have options to make this stop and you know it.
> ....I'm fine with babysitters staying out of it. If someone doesn't like something, it's real easy to deal with. Go to the upper right hand corner of the computer screen and click on the X. Poof, all gone. Wish I could do that in real life.
>
> > I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here and I respect you, I really do.
> ....I doubt seriously anyone is stuck. The board's moderator deserves respect as a medical professional, not a babysitter.
>
> >But it's time for you to start defending the people who REALLY care about PB and rid us of those who don't. Let's get back to business, OK?
> ....I don't think anyone ever got away from 'business'. Take a look at the rest of the page...PB flourishes as if nothing ever happened. And in reality, nothing really did happen. A mere pebble on the beach.
>
>
> > If something isn't done soon, I will join the others who have had enough and leave Babble for good.
> ....My my, tisk tisk. It's nice you're here, and some of us would hate to see you go. But if you need an environment with a babysitter and thorough sterilization, and if you don't have the self control to click on the X when you see something that bothers you, maybe this was never an appropriate venue for you anyway. Try this one instead...www.healthboards.com. Their boards are fully moderated with a fulltime babysitter. I didn't like that, but you might.
> >
> >
> >Please, we don't need more provocation here.
> ....If someone feels provocated, click on the X and go to a different thread.
>
> >Everyone should be allowed to share as much or as little as, and when, he or she feels comfortable.
> ....As far as I can remember, they always have been.
>
> ....Please keep in mind, this board is populated by a wide array of personalities, many of which are under the influence of out-of-control mental conditions or excruciating medications. People who post offensive threads are obviously not in their right minds. Offfensive or not, I don't think anyone should be shutout or babysat. If a post looks offensive as you start reading it, don't finish reading it. Click the X and go to another thread. For every bad thread, there are at least a couple dozen other real good ones to choose from. Why anyone even gives a bad thread a moment's notice is beyond my comprehension. Why focus on a bit of compost but not the flowers all around?
>
Posted by Greg on August 20, 2000, at 10:51:21
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters., posted by JohnL on August 20, 2000, at 4:34:49
> > Dr.Bob,
> >
> > I'm going to allow my current manic condition to run wild here.
> ...This is a good safe place to do that.I agree that it's a good place, but not necessarily safe.
>
> > You may moderate this site, but it belongs to the rest of us as much as it does you.
> ....Wrongo. It doesn't 'belong' to anyone else at all. It's Dr Bob's completely. It's cool we can use it, but the fact is, he's the sole creator and owner of the stage on which the rest of us are kindly allowed to play.If not for us, it doesn't exist. WE contribute the info and support here. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
>
> >How many more valuable contributors have to be pushed away before you start getting pro-active about these constant disruptions?
> ....I've been a regular here for more than two years and haven't seen any 'valuable' contributors pushed away. The valuable ones don't tend to migrate.Wrong my friend! I am in touch offline with many people who have been here for a long time who have chosen to either leave altogether, or will post only when they need specific info or assistance. They are valuable contributors. Because they choose not be involved with these disruptions any longer, doesn't make them any less so. This site is very fortunate to have had you for the last two years.
>
> >What about the new people who come here looking for help and support and are frightened away?
> ....One or two offensive threads in the entire page is going to 'scare' someone off? Even the worst there is at this board is tame compared to real life in the real world.I know some of the new people who have been run off from PB. And yes, when a person suffers from depression, anxiety and mania, all it takes is a few posts to make them leave. They are looking for a SAFE place. Think about it.
>
> >You have options to make this stop and you know it.
> ....I'm fine with babysitters staying out of it. If someone doesn't like something, it's real easy to deal with. Go to the upper right hand corner of the computer screen and click on the X. Poof, all gone. Wish I could do that in real life.I don't recall ever saying anything about babysitters. I'm looking for some control to be exerted here. From time to time someone is going to make a comment someone else doesn't like, I've been around many years and I know that's part of life. But when someone continues to offend others continously over many months, then it's time to act. The use of the "X" in the upper right-hand is good for some, but I'd rather defend my right to have a safe to talk about my problems and ask questions. I grew up in the sixties and learned what fights are worth fighting and which ones aren't, I choose to fight this fight.
>
> > I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here and I respect you, I really do.
> ....I doubt seriously anyone is stuck. The board's moderator deserves respect as a medical professional, not a babysitter.If you don't think that Dr.Bob has a tough chore on his hands here, then you haven't been paying attention.
>
> >But it's time for you to start defending the people who REALLY care about PB and rid us of those who don't. Let's get back to business, OK?
> ....I don't think anyone ever got away from 'business'. Take a look at the rest of the page...PB flourishes as if nothing ever happened. And in reality, nothing really did happen. A mere pebble on the beach.I admire your ability to look away from what is really happening here, I wish I could do the same and I've tried. But I can't. I've had too many people here literally save my life with their input and support. And I will not turn my back on doing what I feel is right.
>
>
> > If something isn't done soon, I will join the others who have had enough and leave Babble for good.
> ....My my, tisk tisk. It's nice you're here, and some of us would hate to see you go. But if you need an environment with a babysitter and thorough sterilization, and if you don't have the self control to click on the X when you see something that bothers you, maybe this was never an appropriate venue for you anyway. Try this one instead...www.healthboards.com. Their boards are fully moderated with a fulltime babysitter. I didn't like that, but you might.I won't dignify this comment other than to say it is one of the most condesending things I've ever had said to me in my life.
John, I respect your opinion, I really do. I just don't agree with it. I thank you for responding to my post. I always need to get differing viewpoints to my opinions to keep me honest. I have rec'd a great deal of support to this post, and I'm sure I will receive some opposite views as well, such as yours. Some will see my post as a personal attack on Dr.Bob, and while that was not the intent, I'll have to live with my decision to do this. I have 2 choices, fight for what is right or turn my back and walk away, for now I choose to fight. Maybe soon I'll have to walk away. But either way, I'll feel like I did the right thing, and to me that is important.
Greg
> >
> >
> >Please, we don't need more provocation here.
> ....If someone feels provocated, click on the X and go to a different thread.
>
> >Everyone should be allowed to share as much or as little as, and when, he or she feels comfortable.
> ....As far as I can remember, they always have been.
>
> ....Please keep in mind, this board is populated by a wide array of personalities, many of which are under the influence of out-of-control mental conditions or excruciating medications. People who post offensive threads are obviously not in their right minds. Offfensive or not, I don't think anyone should be shutout or babysat. If a post looks offensive as you start reading it, don't finish reading it. Click the X and go to another thread. For every bad thread, there are at least a couple dozen other real good ones to choose from. Why anyone even gives a bad thread a moment's notice is beyond my comprehension. Why focus on a bit of compost but not the flowers all around?
>
Posted by michael on August 20, 2000, at 11:20:09
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters., posted by JohnL on August 20, 2000, at 4:34:49
FWIW... If compelled to choose, I think I'd have to concur w/John... The only comment that I'll throw out there for thought is this: these 'disruptions' may be iniated by a particular 'agitator(s)', but the thread, along with any controversy, dies unless it is fed & nourished by reactions/responses...
If someone feels compelled to reply, rather than just ignore it and move on, it seems to me that such a person needs to realize that they bear some of the responsibility for feeding and perpetuating that thread.Not to mention reinforcing the behavior of the initial 'provocative' post - if they don't get the 'attention' (ie: replies) that they are seeking, my guess is that they would tire of this site, and find someone else to annoy.
Try it - if I am proved incorrect, we're no worse off than we are now...
> > Dr.Bob,
> >
> > I'm going to allow my current manic condition to run wild here.
> ...This is a good safe place to do that.
>
> > You may moderate this site, but it belongs to the rest of us as much as it does you.
> ....Wrongo. It doesn't 'belong' to anyone else at all. It's Dr Bob's completely. It's cool we can use it, but the fact is, he's the sole creator and owner of the stage on which the rest of us are kindly allowed to play.
>
> >How many more valuable contributors have to be pushed away before you start getting pro-active about these constant disruptions?
> ....I've been a regular here for more than two years and haven't seen any 'valuable' contributors pushed away. The valuable ones don't tend to migrate.
>
> >What about the new people who come here looking for help and support and are frightened away?
> ....One or two offensive threads in the entire page is going to 'scare' someone off? Even the worst there is at this board is tame compared to real life in the real world.
>
> >You have options to make this stop and you know it.
> ....I'm fine with babysitters staying out of it. If someone doesn't like something, it's real easy to deal with. Go to the upper right hand corner of the computer screen and click on the X. Poof, all gone. Wish I could do that in real life.
>
> > I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here and I respect you, I really do.
> ....I doubt seriously anyone is stuck. The board's moderator deserves respect as a medical professional, not a babysitter.
>
> >But it's time for you to start defending the people who REALLY care about PB and rid us of those who don't. Let's get back to business, OK?
> ....I don't think anyone ever got away from 'business'. Take a look at the rest of the page...PB flourishes as if nothing ever happened. And in reality, nothing really did happen. A mere pebble on the beach.
>
>
> > If something isn't done soon, I will join the others who have had enough and leave Babble for good.
> ....My my, tisk tisk. It's nice you're here, and some of us would hate to see you go. But if you need an environment with a babysitter and thorough sterilization, and if you don't have the self control to click on the X when you see something that bothers you, maybe this was never an appropriate venue for you anyway. Try this one instead...www.healthboards.com. Their boards are fully moderated with a fulltime babysitter. I didn't like that, but you might.
> >
> >
> >Please, we don't need more provocation here.
> ....If someone feels provocated, click on the X and go to a different thread.
>
> >Everyone should be allowed to share as much or as little as, and when, he or she feels comfortable.
> ....As far as I can remember, they always have been.
>
> ....Please keep in mind, this board is populated by a wide array of personalities, many of which are under the influence of out-of-control mental conditions or excruciating medications. People who post offensive threads are obviously not in their right minds. Offfensive or not, I don't think anyone should be shutout or babysat. If a post looks offensive as you start reading it, don't finish reading it. Click the X and go to another thread. For every bad thread, there are at least a couple dozen other real good ones to choose from. Why anyone even gives a bad thread a moment's notice is beyond my comprehension. Why focus on a bit of compost but not the flowers all around?
>
Posted by Cam W. on August 20, 2000, at 12:11:02
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters., posted by michael on August 20, 2000, at 11:20:09
Well stated Michael. It's just that the urge to respond is sometimes so strong.....
- Cam
Posted by Steeler Tookahn on August 20, 2000, at 15:57:10
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters. » michael, posted by Cam W. on August 20, 2000, at 12:11:02
> Well stated Michael. It's just that the urge to respond is sometimes so strong.....
> - CamTrue. The urge to respond is even stronger when someone else is being hurt. One feels compelled to let the abused know they are not deserving. It's hard to let other's pain go unanswered. It's human nature.
Posted by Billb on August 20, 2000, at 16:21:32
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters., posted by Steeler Tookahn on August 20, 2000, at 15:57:10
You will not see this type of post come from me again. Too much Amstel the other night. I never intended to start such a strange discussion. My sincere apologies to all.
This is a great site, and I like it just the way it is.
Bill
Posted by allisonm on August 20, 2000, at 17:42:15
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters. » JohnL, posted by Greg on August 20, 2000, at 10:51:21
> >The use of the "X" in the upper right-hand is good for some, but I'd rather defend my right to have a safe to talk about my problems and ask questions. I grew up in the sixties and learned what fights are worth fighting and which ones aren't, I choose to fight this fight.< <
I believe Dr. Bob's intent was to provide for all of us a safe place to talk about our problems and ask questions. It is a gift. Unfortunately Greg, we have no "right" to it.
Regrettably, this gift has been tainted by some people with big problems. I have to agree with JohnL though: we don't need more moderation; what we all need is more self control - refraining from writing damaging posts and ignoring the hurtful posts and continuing to help each other. When I see a thread with the word "civility" in it, I might read the original post to see whether I might have a response, but I don't bother to read the disruptive ones below it anymore. There are lots of other threads and now two more PB boards.
allison
Posted by michael on August 20, 2000, at 20:18:46
In reply to Re: Counterpoint...no board babysitters., posted by Steeler Tookahn on August 20, 2000, at 15:57:10
I do understand the compassion & empathy that motivates the desire to reply - I feel it myself...
Two possible alternatives... Perhaps writing directly to the injured party, to offer support (if their address is posted)...
Or at least offerng the support in a different/new thread, & as tempting as it may be, NOT attacking/acknowledging/rebutting the 'offending' poster (ie: with-holding any 'attention' that might encourage further 'uncivil' posts/behavior)... ?
At the risk of saying too much... I still believe that the key to this type of issue is: if one replies to these antagonistic messages - regardless of the motivation - one needs to assume some of the responsibility for that thread (& for encouraging the initial poster)... I know that issues like this are not strictly black & white... It's just my opinion. I'm done - no more preaching.
> > Well stated Michael. It's just that the urge to respond is sometimes so strong.....
> > - Cam
>
> True. The urge to respond is even stronger when someone else is being hurt. One feels compelled to let the abused know they are not deserving. It's hard to let other's pain go unanswered. It's human nature.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 21, 2000, at 1:05:26
In reply to Re: live and let live » Dr. Bob, posted by Greg on August 19, 2000, at 17:40:27
> You're right, we don't need further provocation here. So, my question is, What are YOU going to do about it? This current string of BS has been going on for over 5 months now and all I ever see from you is "Please be civil".
> it's time for you to start defending the people who REALLY care about PB and rid us of those who don't.
I think everyone deserves to be defended against incivility. Unfortunately, however, my ability to control what goes on here is limited. Usually, reminding people to be civil is enough, so I think it makes sense to start with that. But I do block people from time to time, most recently misterB.
> How many more valuable contributors have to be pushed away before you start getting pro-active about these constant disruptions? What about the new people who come here looking for help and support and are frightened away? You have options to make this stop and you know it.
Unfortunately, we're going to lose some valuable contributors. What "options" do you have in mind?
> If something isn't done soon, I will join the others who have had enough and leave Babble for good.
Unfortunately, we're going to lose some valuable contributors. I hope we don't lose you, but everyone has to weigh for themselves the pros and cons of being here.
Also, in response to Steeler Tookahn:
> The urge to respond is even stronger when someone else is being hurt. One feels compelled to let the abused know they are not deserving. It's hard to let other's pain go unanswered. It's human nature.
Yes, please do try to support the person who's hurt -- but not to attack the "abuser". Oh, I see now that michael already made this same point. Thanks!
Bob
Posted by JohnB on August 21, 2000, at 6:01:24
In reply to Re: what are we going to do about this, posted by Dr. Bob on August 21, 2000, at 1:05:26
May I suggest that upon reading an obviously offensive post, that one could simply put in the subject line- "I find the post offensive -no msg"
This lets the poster know your feelings without perpetuating a whole thread of attacks and counter-attacks.
Posted by Steeler Tookahn on August 21, 2000, at 6:49:15
In reply to Re: no board babysitters/Cam Steeler, posted by michael on August 20, 2000, at 20:18:46
> Two possible alternatives... Perhaps writing directly to the injured party, to offer support (if their address is posted)...
>
> Or at least offerng the support in a different/new thread, & as tempting as it may be, NOT attacking/acknowledging/rebutting the 'offending' poster (ie: with-holding any 'attention' that might encourage further 'uncivil' posts/behavior)... ?Excellent ideas.
Posted by Cam W. on August 21, 2000, at 7:15:20
In reply to Re: no board babysitters/Cam Steeler, posted by michael on August 20, 2000, at 20:18:46
Sometimes any response is what a flamer is looking for. Wouldn't it be better to pretend that the post never happened or appeared, even for the flamee. I know that we sometimes get caught up in a discussion that gets out of hand, but the stoppage of correspondence and the ignoring of an insult may be better than any knee-jerk reaction or civility warning. I don't know. Any psychologists out there care to comment? - Cam
Posted by Billb on August 21, 2000, at 21:19:34
In reply to Re: Counterpoint., posted by Billb on August 20, 2000, at 16:21:32
It sure doesn't take much to start an emotional debate around here. It seems that almost any excuse to start a fight will suffice. I proved this.
Oh well, I guess it shows that people have some passion and care about the site. However, you should not be so eager to fight/complain.
Dr. Bob always appears to be professional, kind to all, balanced. I applaud him for this because it must get very tiring to build such a site/project and put so much of his personal time/energy into it because he wants to make a difference and then have people so eager to complain/criticize so quickly. Everyone should cut Dr. Bob the same slack he cuts everyone else. He is so much more forgiving and understanding in his responses than the rest of us.
He da man.
Bill
"brown-noser of the week"
This is the end of the thread.
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