Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 32651

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Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Cam W. on May 7, 2000, at 14:09:46

In reply to Controversial issues, posted by Nancy on May 7, 2000, at 13:50:35

> I am a university student studying a course in abnormal psychology. For an essay, I need a controversial issue. Does anyone have any ideas?

Nancy - How about why stigmatization of mental health exists in an "enlightened" society. What causes the fear of the mentally more than the fear of someone with a physical abnormality than fear of someone with a non-obvious disorder like hypertension. Is this fear hardwired into our genes or is it just media and social prejudice that causes this phenonmenon. Or is it because that, deep down inside us we realize that we tread a very thin line between sanity and insanity (or even if such a line exists). One area to look at would be savants, another is to look at biochemical or structural abnormalities of the brain (Dr.Nancy Andreasen's "cognitive dysmetria". You could look at how stigma prevents people from seeking treatment, prolonging their suffering, and possible irreparably doing themselves some damage.

Okay, so this is a thesis (or two), but I sure, if approached in the proper manner, could earn you a good grade from just one angle of this devastating effect of mental illness.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you choose. - Cam.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Noa on May 7, 2000, at 14:16:45

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Cam W. on May 7, 2000, at 14:09:46

How about the issues of proper mental health care:

-parity for mental health ins. coverage with other health coverage.

-how managed care hurts people with mental illness

-how millions of people go misdiagnosed or undiagnosed because of poor training in mental health for primary care doctors

-the tendency of many highly qualified psychiatrists to bow out of participating in health insurance coverage, creating a system for haves and have-nots.

-lack of quality assurance in many non-prescription supplements

-inability of someone with a history of mental illness to ever get life insurance, and often to have difficulty getting proper health insurance

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Noa on May 7, 2000, at 14:26:03

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Cam W. on May 7, 2000, at 14:09:46

About stigma--you could explore why it is that a lawyer standing for the bar cannot admit to having been treated for depression.

On a more clinical note--here is an interesting question: Personality Disorder or Unrecognized Mood Disorder?

On a more feminist note: how the mental health field has overlooked women in conducting its research-- how the diagnostic norms based on this research are skewed to represent how disorders affect men, and how women's needs have been mishandled because of trying to fit women's problems into the paradigms from research on men.

Here is another one: do people with a history of mental illness have the same credibility with doctors when complaining of any kind of health symptoms?

And, of course there is the issue of eroding confidentiality in health care.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by shar on May 7, 2000, at 15:54:12

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Cam W. on May 7, 2000, at 14:09:46

I always liked what Thomas Szasz had to say on being sane in insane places. Where normal behavior is interpreted as abnormal. Shar

> > I am a university student studying a course in abnormal psychology. For an essay, I need a controversial issue. Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> Nancy - How about why stigmatization of mental health exists in an "enlightened" society. What causes the fear of the mentally more than the fear of someone with a physical abnormality than fear of someone with a non-obvious disorder like hypertension. Is this fear hardwired into our genes or is it just media and social prejudice that causes this phenonmenon. Or is it because that, deep down inside us we realize that we tread a very thin line between sanity and insanity (or even if such a line exists). One area to look at would be savants, another is to look at biochemical or structural abnormalities of the brain (Dr.Nancy Andreasen's "cognitive dysmetria". You could look at how stigma prevents people from seeking treatment, prolonging their suffering, and possible irreparably doing themselves some damage.
>
> Okay, so this is a thesis (or two), but I sure, if approached in the proper manner, could earn you a good grade from just one angle of this devastating effect of mental illness.
>
> Good luck and keep us posted on what you choose. - Cam.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by tina on May 7, 2000, at 16:56:54

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Noa on May 7, 2000, at 14:26:03

I, personally like the one Noa brought up about whether or not medical complaints made by patients who have a history of mental illness are taken seriously. My GP quite often dismisses my physical discomforts as being related to my depression/anxiety (the-it's all in your head response) It really pi**ed me off so I found a new dr and didn't tell her that I was mentally ill-equipped and finally got the answers I needed. Sounds like a controversial issue to me. Good luck with your paper.


> About stigma--you could explore why it is that a lawyer standing for the bar cannot admit to having been treated for depression.
>
> On a more clinical note--here is an interesting question: Personality Disorder or Unrecognized Mood Disorder?
>
> On a more feminist note: how the mental health field has overlooked women in conducting its research-- how the diagnostic norms based on this research are skewed to represent how disorders affect men, and how women's needs have been mishandled because of trying to fit women's problems into the paradigms from research on men.
>
> Here is another one: do people with a history of mental illness have the same credibility with doctors when complaining of any kind of health symptoms?
>
> And, of course there is the issue of eroding confidentiality in health care.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by afatchic on May 7, 2000, at 18:06:34

In reply to Controversial issues, posted by Nancy on May 7, 2000, at 13:50:35

I think a good controversial topic would be electro shock therapy.

> I am a university student studying a course in abnormal psychology. For an essay, I need a controversial issue. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Jade on May 7, 2000, at 19:31:51

In reply to Controversial issues, posted by Nancy on May 7, 2000, at 13:50:35

> I am a university student studying a course in abnormal psychology. For an essay, I need a controversial issue. Does anyone have any ideas?

Another controversy exists around forced treatment. How do different countries deal with this?

Deinstitutionalization-Are the funds being provided to assist with community living? Is it working?

Good Luck
Jade

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Cass on May 7, 2000, at 23:46:37

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Jade on May 7, 2000, at 19:31:51

The diagnosis of "Borderline personality" is controversial. Some people think it is a catch all, others don't.

 

Good One Cass!!!!(no message)

Posted by tina on May 8, 2000, at 0:22:21

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Cass on May 7, 2000, at 23:46:37

> The diagnosis of "Borderline personality" is controversial. Some people think it is a catch all, others don't.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Theresa Pye on May 8, 2000, at 7:15:55

In reply to Controversial issues, posted by Nancy on May 7, 2000, at 13:50:35

How about how the FDA approves medications.
> I am a university student studying a course in abnormal psychology. For an essay, I need a controversial issue. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Noa on May 8, 2000, at 9:22:17

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Jade on May 7, 2000, at 19:31:51

> Another controversy exists around forced treatment. How do different countries deal with this?


This was the topic of Dateline last night. It is a tough issue.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by nancy on May 8, 2000, at 20:23:33

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Noa on May 8, 2000, at 9:22:17

Thanks guys! All are great ideas. I like the forced treatment...mmm..that might be interesting to tie in with electroshock. Just a question, but has anyone had electroshock done?

I was in the doctor's office today and I wondered what one of you commented on yesterday; the type of service a doctor gives to a mentally ill person, versus a non-mentally ill person. I thought would it would be like to act like I had a mental illness, and then go to another doctor and be myself...i wonder...

thanks for all your help.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by fred on May 8, 2000, at 22:06:22

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by nancy on May 8, 2000, at 20:23:33

> Thanks guys! All are great ideas. I like the forced treatment...mmm..that might be interesting to tie in with electroshock. Just a question, but has anyone had electroshock done?
>
Hi Nancy, I was forcibly given 12 ECT treatments when I was 18 years old. It was the most horrible thing that ever happened to me. I was physically dragged into the room several times. Some mornings I managed to get into the kitchen and stuff food down my throat so they wouldn't do it (because of the anesthesia? they wouldn't do it if you'd eaten). In all my life the only thing I'd had that no one could take from me was my mind and they held me down and gave me ECT. Sorry if I sound melodramatic. Prisoners of war who are forcibly subjected to electric shocks are treated for PTSD. I was worse afterwards. There was nothing wrong with me that would have been appropriately treated with ECT anyway.
It frightens me that forced treatment is becoming acceptable to many people. I'm glad someone is thinking about it.
I don't think the idea of impersonating a mentally ill person is really a very good one. It's not as easy as it might seem and somehow it doesn't really seem to respect the experience of people who are not pretending. Good luck on your paper !
might as well be "fred"

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Noa on May 9, 2000, at 8:58:09

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by nancy on May 8, 2000, at 20:23:33

"to act like I had a mental illness"

Nancy, I am not sure how you would do this, because many of us have mental illness and don't "act" any differently, just feel differently, or at least, don't show outward signs in public. In any event, you wouldn't need to "act" at all. All you would have to do is have a diagnosis on your record, or simply provide info to a doc indicating a history of depression, anxiety disorder, etc. I don't recommend doing this experiment, because it could affect your medical care, insurance elegibility, etc. for the rest of your life.

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Nancy on May 9, 2000, at 9:49:04

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by fred on May 8, 2000, at 22:06:22

>I'm sorry Fred. I didn't mean to downplay yourexperience! I feel badly now.
Thank you for telling me about your experience with ECT. That getsme more motivated to do some research. I cannot impagine the experience. The only thingI know about ECT is that they use it for severely depressed people. Who knows, maybe my paper might affect others....
Thanks again.
Nancy

> Thanks guys! All are great ideas. I like the forced treatment...mmm..that might be interesting to tie in with electroshock. Just a question, but has anyone had electroshock done?
> >
> Hi Nancy, I was forcibly given 12 ECT treatments when I was 18 years old. It was the most horrible thing that ever happened to me. I was physically dragged into the room several times. Some mornings I managed to get into the kitchen and stuff food down my throat so they wouldn't do it (because of the anesthesia? they wouldn't do it if you'd eaten). In all my life the only thing I'd had that no one could take from me was my mind and they held me down and gave me ECT. Sorry if I sound melodramatic. Prisoners of war who are forcibly subjected to electric shocks are treated for PTSD. I was worse afterwards. There was nothing wrong with me that would have been appropriately treated with ECT anyway.
> It frightens me that forced treatment is becoming acceptable to many people. I'm glad someone is thinking about it.
> I don't think the idea of impersonating a mentally ill person is really a very good one. It's not as easy as it might seem and somehow it doesn't really seem to respect the experience of people who are not pretending. Good luck on your paper !
> might as well be "fred"

 

Re: Controversial issues

Posted by Chris A. on May 9, 2000, at 15:40:30

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Nancy on May 9, 2000, at 9:49:04

Nancy,
I'm sorry to hear that Fred was forced to treatment. Another side side of the story: I've had over 40 ECT treatments starting in 1977, with the last one being yesterday. I fully and knowledgeably consented to each one. I never experienced any discomfort other than the post treatment headaches on the days of the treatments. Unfortunately they have not been as effective as would have been ideal, but they have kept me alive. For some people they are miracle treatments. Perhaps my nursing background has made it easier, as I could understand fully what what happening to me. I've seen some pretty nop top medical and nursing care in the process.

Chris A.

 

Electroshock is not so shocking anymore…

Posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 17:55:06

In reply to Re: Controversial issues, posted by Chris A. on May 9, 2000, at 15:40:30

Hello Nancy,

I agree that the mentally ill are, for the most part, an invisble group. I've spent an incredible amount of time and energy 'passing for normal', and hiding when I can't. The only people (I believe) who would know I was mentally ill would be other mentally ill people, and, of course, those people who have been close to me.

As for Electroshock, I believe it's called ECT, and is no longer controversial. Sorry to hear of your experience Fred.

 

Re: Electroshock is not so shocking anymore…NOT

Posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 18:21:04

In reply to Electroshock is not so shocking anymore…, posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 17:55:06

> Hello Nancy,
>
> I agree that the mentally ill are, for the most part, an invisble group. I've spent an incredible amount of time and energy 'passing for normal', and hiding when I can't. The only people (I believe) who would know I was mentally ill would be other mentally ill people, and, of course, those people who have been close to me.
>
> As for Electroshock, I believe it's called ECT, and is no longer controversial. Sorry to hear of your experience Fred.

Janice Why are you sorry for my experience if you believe it is "no longer controversial"? I consider it controversial and I assure you I am not the only one!!!! I feel a little discounted-heck, I feel downright invisible myself! fred

 

Personality disorder is not so shocking anymore

Posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 18:26:06

In reply to Re: Electroshock is not so shocking anymore…NOT, posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 18:21:04

> > Hello Nancy,
> >
> > I agree that the mentally ill are, for the most part, an invisble group. I've spent an incredible amount of time and energy 'passing for normal', and hiding when I can't. The only people (I believe) who would know I was mentally ill would be other mentally ill people, and, of course, those people who have been close to me.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hey I'm not mentally ill and I think I could spot you in a crowd. Narcissistic Personality Disorder walking- you're showing baby!!!

 

Re: Janice

Posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 19:27:01

In reply to Personality disorder is not so shocking anymore , posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 18:26:06

> > > Hello Nancy,
> > >
> > > I agree that the mentally ill are, for the most part, an invisble group. I've spent an incredible amount of time and energy 'passing for normal', and hiding when I can't. The only people (I believe) who would know I was mentally ill would be other mentally ill people, and, of course, those people who have been close to me.
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hey I'm not mentally ill and I think I could spot you in a crowd. Narcissistic Personality Disorder walking- you're showing baby!!!
``````````````````````````````````````````````
Sorry I have to recall your diagnosis unless you want to be billed-then I guess I could explain my reasoning.

I think the flip title of your post was uncalled for.

Minks are electrocuted with an electric probe in their anus. It is legal. It is also controversial. If you stick an electric curling iron up your ample bum and electrocute yourself,you may do it voluntarily,it may be legal, you may find it quite helpful (let us know). But it will still be controversial.

People who were and are being treated forcibly are human beings. Their opinions and lives and wishes are just as important as yours! Just because they don't buy into the mental health industry (much of whose resources are devoted to unhappy menopausal middle class women who make a career out of finding the happy pill and blaming everything on their chemical imbalances) doesn't mean they don't count!

I think this board systematically excludes anyone whose experience doesn't echo the majority. It terrifies me that people like you might be mistaken for the voice of people who haven't chosen mental illness as a lifestyle. Speak for yourself, not in sweeping generalities. ECT is shocking for many people now and all ways. Your heartlessness was also shocking and painful to me personally.
fred

 

Fred…

Posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 21:24:03

In reply to Re: Janice, posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 19:27:01

Sorry Fred if I was insensitive towards your experience. I meant to say, for the most part, as far as I know, ECT is not really controversial anymore, but, of course, there are exceptions--and you were obviously one of them.

This is still my opinion.
I could be wrong.
Janice

 

Re: You Just Don't Get It Janice

Posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 22:22:08

In reply to Fred…, posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 21:24:03

> Sorry Fred if I was insensitive towards your experience. I meant to say, for the most part, as far as I know, ECT is not really controversial anymore, but, of course, there are exceptions--and you were obviously one of them.
>
> This is still my opinion.
> I could be wrong.
> Janice
```````````````````````````

Janice the issue is FORCED treatment. That is controversial. ECT is also still controversial outside the mental health industry.

Lobotomies are also being done and possibly should be done for people who threaten murder and generally blame their violent behaviour on "seizures or illnesses". You are a victimizer not a victim. No wonder you can't understand.

It's about individuals NOT generalities. It's about the value of ANY innocent human life, not your insensitivity to my personal experience.

It's your opinion and your shame.

 

Re: Fred

Posted by KarenB on May 9, 2000, at 22:49:59

In reply to Re: You Just Don't Get It Janice, posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 22:22:08

Fred,

It is not required that everyone understand and feel your pain. What you endured was, I am sure, tragic and hideous but it is not Janice's fault that she misunderstood your point...and it is certainly not justifiable, the cruel insults you hurled her way. She is in no way deserving of such battering.

We are friends here. Lighten up. Consider an apology.

Karen

 

Re: ECT literature search

Posted by Cam W. on May 9, 2000, at 23:42:19

In reply to Re: Fred, posted by KarenB on May 9, 2000, at 22:49:59

While preparing for a presentation to public health nurses on depression during pregnancy and postpartum, I came across many journal articles, both for and against ECT. All of the latest ones (last 2 to 3 years) consider ECT to be the best and safest antidepressant therapy we have.

ECT is the treatment of choice in pregnant women with major depression. The high levels of cortisol in a pregnant mom's blood stream do more damage to the baby than either ECT (and it's prep meds) or the SSRIs. ECT is also the treatment of choice in the old-old (>75 yrs).

One article researched psychiatrists' views on ECT worldwide. The findings were that if a psychiatrist was trained in the U.S. in the 1970s, they were less likely to use or recommend ECT. European psychiatrists use it routinely.

The stigma surrounding ECT comes from Hollywood. Movies like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and "Snakepit" paint a dismal picture of this treatment. Granted, in the past, currents were too high and muscle relaxants weren't used. Even today, seeing someone getting an ECT treatment gives me the shivers, but I am told (especially by the people with refractory bipolar disorder that I have presented to) that, other than some amnesia and sometimes a headache, this these treatments have literally saved their lives.

Fred, I am not trying to discount your experience, especially the part about 'forced treatment'. I have not heard of anyone in my area, who wasn't a danger to themselves and not refratory to all medication, to be forced to have an ECT. I actually have never heard of anyone being forced, but then again, I've never asked.

Fred, I really feel for you about your bad experiences. It must have been awful.

Sincerely - Cam

 

Re: Fred

Posted by fred on May 9, 2000, at 23:58:52

In reply to Re: Fred, posted by KarenB on May 9, 2000, at 22:49:59

> Fred,
>
> It is not required that everyone understand and feel your pain. What you endured was, I am sure, tragic and hideous but it is not Janice's fault that she misunderstood your point...and it is certainly not justifiable, the cruel insults you hurled her way. She is in no way deserving of such battering.
>
> We are friends here. Lighten up. Consider an apology.
>
> Karen
````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Karen you miss the point. My personal pain is not the issue. The issue is forced treatment.

I have nothing to apologize for.

I have no intention of Lightening Up on an issue as serious as this.

My comments were thoughtful and well meant. It is certainly not my fault if you misinterpret them.

Friends don't call friends cruel. Lighten up. Consider an apology.

Violent and homocidal people should not be allowed to hide behind the label "mentally ill".
This is an opinion, not a battering. This is a position in favor of protecting the innocent not an insult.

When people refuse to take a stand , it does become their fault. That is why I spoke out.

fred


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