Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 17153

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Serzone and Social Anxiety

Posted by Snowie on December 19, 1999, at 17:47:24

I've heard that Serzone can be helpful for people with social anxiety. I think I've even seen a thread about this on Psycho-Babble and other Boards ... some reporting that it helped, some saying that it didn't. Any thoughts? Does it really help with social anxiety, and if so, how?

Thanks!

Snowie

 

Re: Serzone and Social Anxiety

Posted by Alice on December 19, 1999, at 19:48:13

In reply to Serzone and Social Anxiety, posted by Snowie on December 19, 1999, at 17:47:24

Snowie,

I have been on Serzone for 3 weeks...gradually went up from 50 mg., am now on 300. I have suffered from social-phobia since my early teens. So far, I haven't noticed the Serzone giving me much help in that area. I still avoid most social situations at all cost. My husband is afraid I won't want to participate in Christmas, as I didn't on Thanksgiving. I hope things get better, but it may be too early to tell. The med that has worked the best for me in the past for social phobia and anxiety was Klonopin. I suggested this to my new doc but he wants me to get away from that. I guess because it is an addictive controlled substance. Well, it is always an option. I've heard Paxil can be helpful, too.

 

Klonopin?

Posted by mat on December 20, 1999, at 22:44:15

In reply to Re: Serzone and Social Anxiety, posted by Alice on December 19, 1999, at 19:48:13

Could you give me a clue as to how Klonopin helped Alice? I'm on Moclobomide at the moment

(see 4 or 5 threads down for my symptons)

I can relate to fear of Christmas gatherings, that's for sure

mat

 

Re: Klonopin?

Posted by Rick on December 21, 1999, at 15:25:24

In reply to Klonopin?, posted by mat on December 20, 1999, at 22:44:15

Mat --

If I may be so rude as to jump in here...

By all means, try Klonopin for Social Phobia, especially if you're not clinically depressed. Just resist the counter-productive urge to take more than your body really needs. It's been a life-saver for me after trying other meds. Nothing works for everybody, but in blind placebo-controlled studies Klonopin has shown an extremely high response rate (78% - greater than Nardil and much greater than Paxil or any other antidepressant), with minimal side effects in most people after a little fatigue the first few weeks. And it starts working FAST.

Rick

-----
> Could you give me a clue as to how Klonopin helped Alice? I'm on Moclobomide at the moment
>
> (see 4 or 5 threads down for my symptons)
>
> I can relate to fear of Christmas gatherings, that's for sure
>
> mat

 

Re: Klonopin?

Posted by Rick on December 21, 1999, at 15:36:03

In reply to Re: Klonopin?, posted by Rick on December 21, 1999, at 15:25:24

Mat -

I should have read your post below BEFORE replying. Even WITH depression Klonopin can be great for SP, but there is an outside chance that it can worsen depression. Xanax (another benzo like Klonopin) is less likely to cause this effect (in fact, it supposedly has some anti-depressant qualities), but in my experience it is vastly INFERIOR to Klonopin for Social Phobia.

It also sounds like an *irreversible* MAOI like Nardil might have a much better chance of addressing your SP + atypical depression than moclobemide, but as you probably have heard this drug can be dangerous (cause a hypertensive crisis) if certain foods or medications are taken concurrently. (BTW my pdoc, who has championed Nardil for 20 years, says the warnings are important but greatly overstated, especially for men. He's only seen one hypertensive crisis, and it resolved pretty quickly.)

Rick
----
> Mat --
>
> If I may be so rude as to jump in here...
>
> By all means, try Klonopin for Social Phobia, especially if you're not clinically depressed. Just resist the counter-productive urge to take more than your body really needs. It's been a life-saver for me after trying other meds. Nothing works for everybody, but in blind placebo-controlled studies Klonopin has shown an extremely high response rate (78% - greater than Nardil and much greater than Paxil or any other antidepressant), with minimal side effects in most people after a little fatigue the first few weeks. And it starts working FAST.
>
> Rick
>
> -----
> > Could you give me a clue as to how Klonopin helped Alice? I'm on Moclobomide at the moment
> >
> > (see 4 or 5 threads down for my symptons)
> >
> > I can relate to fear of Christmas gatherings, that's for sure
> >
> > mat

 

Re: Klonopin? / what does it do?

Posted by mat on December 21, 1999, at 16:02:04

In reply to Re: Klonopin?, posted by Rick on December 21, 1999, at 15:36:03

Thanks Rick

So how does it work? Does it reduce the degree anxiety when it normally occurs or does it reduce the chances of its onset.

I really think that if I could take care of the social phobia the depression would fall into place. The 2 things are not seperate. For instance when I was a kid I had social phobia for sure but I was not depressed. Depression for me comes at the realisation that I need to avoid social situations to get by.

mat

 

Re: Klonopin?

Posted by Alice on December 21, 1999, at 19:54:27

In reply to Re: Klonopin?, posted by Rick on December 21, 1999, at 15:36:03

Mat,

Klonopin probably worked for me for social phobia because it is a benzodiazapene (don't feel much like looking up the spelling of that one right now) similar to Valium and Xanax, and makes you feel really relaxed and forget your anxieties about being in social situations. I never heard that it could make depression worse, and since I suffer from that, too, maybe that is why my doc won't put me back on it. Docs seem to want to try you on everything BUT the benzos first...but to tell you the truth, nothing else has really ever worked for me. Some people just don't realize how devastating social anxiety can be. I did not show up for Thanksgiving because I have been feeling especially depressed and anxious the past few months, and at this point, I don't think I'll make it to Christmas either. This causes a great rift between my husband and I. He has already stated that he fears I will just sit around "moping" on x-mas like always. I would really like to go back on the Klonopin. I was thinking of ordering it on-line, but it would probably just get seized and it would be a waste of money. Could get arrested to. That's all I need right now. Oh well. Maybe I'll just talk to my doc about it again. Good luck with you.

 

to alice, matt

Posted by anna on December 21, 1999, at 23:24:09

In reply to Re: Klonopin?, posted by Alice on December 21, 1999, at 19:54:27

Matt, I don't know that Klonipin causes depression, I'd say the opposite. I took xanax and then klonipin for ten years, but both the p-docs I have seen wanted me off them. I self-medicated with a xanax for 3 yrs panic disorder/deression/anxiety until I went on Zoloft. While zoloft did wonders on panic, I still needed an almost daily benzo. Addicted? I never increased it the klonipin much at all--and never took more than 1.0/day. I hate to say it, but it is good stuff.

But--neither doc ever told me no benzos anymore. (I just quit myself a few months ago when I went on adderall for add.) Anyway, alice, I think you really need to tell your doc what you said here--I do not know if you abused Klonipin when you were on it, but if you didn't, why can't you take it before social events and until a non-addicting alternative is found? I just don't think anyone needs to suffer these days when there is something that can help.

I shouldn't say this--but before I saw a p-doc, I got xanax from my internist or gynacologist (sp). No problem-and these folks are with an academic med center, hardly pill-pushing quacks.

 

Re: Klonopin? / what does it do?

Posted by Rick on December 22, 1999, at 0:38:16

In reply to Re: Klonopin? / what does it do?, posted by mat on December 21, 1999, at 16:02:04

Mat -

Klonopin (which many swear is more effective than the generic version, clonazepam) is a benzo (benzodiazepine). Simply put, benzos increase the effectiveness of GABA, a neurotransmitter in the brain which transmits "calm down!" signals.

Klonopin is a longer-acting benzo and thus provides "a more continuous calm", as the third link below puts it. Thus it is helpful for both "anticipatory" Social Anxiety and the "actual event".

Klonopin's only "official" designations are for epilepsy (yes, epilepsy) and panic disorder (which is in some ways a more acute kin to Social Anxiety), but it is used for many other mental and physical disorders.

The links below provide a good summary of (a) Klonopin's effectiveness in treating Social Phobia (b) its long-lasting effectiveness in doing so, and long-term safety and (c) a rational discussion of benzos. (There are many doctors as well as other people who are "benzo-phobic" and vocal about it, but most reputable research shows that benzos -- especially longer-lasting ones -- are ususally very safe if taken responsibly and discontinued responsibly. My own pdoc has been prescribing them for 20 years, and assures me that should I discontinue, withdrawal will never be a problem as long as I stay under 3 mg of Klonopin a day -- I take 2 mg -- and taper off very gradually.)

Good luck!

(P.S. If you are not in the U.S., you may find thar branded clonazepam has a different name. For instance, I think it's "Ritrovil" in Canada, or something like that.)

Rick

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/quer
y?uid=8120156&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/quer
y?uid=9790154&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

http://panicdisorder.about.com/health/panicdisorder/library/weekly/aa082797.htm?rnk=r1&terms=benzodiazepines&PM=112_300_T

-----
> Thanks Rick
>
> So how does it work? Does it reduce the degree
anxiety when it normally occurs or does it reduce
the chances of its onset.
>
> I really think that if I could take care of the
social phobia the depression would fall into
place. The 2 things are not seperate. For instance when I was a kid I had social phobia for sure but
I was not depressed. Depression for me comes at
the realisation that I need to avoid social
situations to get by.
>
> mat

 

Re: Klonopin? - To Alice

Posted by Rick on December 22, 1999, at 0:58:21

In reply to Re: Klonopin?, posted by Alice on December 21, 1999, at 19:54:27

Alice -

Can't you get a new doctor? Unless you have shown some tendency towards substance abuse, I can't see how you can tolerate his lack of knowledge and compassion. Best would be an open-minded psychiatrist, especially one that specializes in anxiety disorders.. At the very least, how about showing your doctor the articles I provided links for in the post to Mat -- especially the first two articles.

Good luck to you.
Rick

 

Re: Klonopin? / what does it do? - Addendum

Posted by Rick on December 22, 1999, at 1:08:34

In reply to Re: Klonopin? / what does it do?, posted by Rick on December 22, 1999, at 0:38:16

If you're in Canada, the correct brand name is Rivotril.

 

Re: to alice, matt

Posted by Alice on December 23, 1999, at 20:04:57

In reply to to alice, matt, posted by anna on December 21, 1999, at 23:24:09

Anna,

Thanks for your reply. No, I never abused it. In fact, when it was prescribed for me, I had no idea what it even was, and was never told that it was addictive. I was a little bit angered by that, because when I went off of it I went through a terrible withdrawel that I was not expecting. I went away to Texas to stay with a friend at the end of the summer a couple of years ago, and ran out of meds. I didn't think it any big deal since I had never gone through any withdrawels from any of them before. And I knew I would be back on them in a few weeks. But the Klonopin....oh, geez, that's the only thing you have to watch out for with that.

You are right, I should tell my doctor what I wrote in here. My husband says the same thing. But it is difficult for me to express myself in person due to my social phobia, especially since I don't know this doctor very well. I usually find myself just nodding and agreeing with whatever the doctor says, speaking quietly, and then hating myself for it for days afterwards.

 

Re: Klonopin? - To Alice

Posted by Alice on December 23, 1999, at 20:27:42

In reply to Re: Klonopin? - To Alice, posted by Rick on December 22, 1999, at 0:58:21

> Alice -
>
> Can't you get a new doctor? Unless you have shown some tendency towards substance abuse, I can't see how you can tolerate his lack of knowledge and compassion. Best would be an open-minded psychiatrist, especially one that specializes in anxiety disorders.. At the very least, how about showing your doctor the articles I provided links for in the post to Mat -- especially the first two articles.
>
> Good luck to you.
> Rick

Hi, Rick. I don't think I will be able to change doctors. I just began to see this one, and he is actually not so bad. I think he is just being cautious since he doesn't know me very well. My husband has been seeing him for years, and speaks very highly of him. He even got me into see him, which was no easy task since we are on State insurance, and his office's policy has changed since my husband began to see him. I had to get referalls and all that BS. Also, since I am on state, my options for docs are very limited. You should have seen the doc I had before this one....damn, he was SCARY!! *L* So it's either this doc or back to the snake pit...the docs people go to because they are on state and can't get anything else. But believe me, if I could get into to see a doc that specialized in anxiety disorders on my insurance I would go in a minute. Anyways, I will read those articles and print them out, probably won't be able to show them to my doc...again, since I am on state, I have to be in "med group"...doc goes around the room, writes out scripts, I only get a few minutes to speak with him. Don't get me wrong though, I'm very lucky to have any insurance at all! Lots of people don't, and it's not right. I am sure the articles will be very helpful to me...thanx, and thanks for the help!

 

To alice...

Posted by anna on December 30, 1999, at 13:46:46

In reply to Re: to alice, matt, posted by Alice on December 23, 1999, at 20:04:57

> Anna,
>
> Thanks for your reply. No, I never abused it. In fact, when it was prescribed for me, I had no idea what it even was, and was never told that it was addictive. I was a little bit angered by that, because when I went off of it I went through a terrible withdrawel that I was not expecting. I went away to Texas to stay with a friend at the end of the summer a couple of years ago, and ran out of meds. I didn't think it any big deal since I had never gone through any withdrawels from any of them before. And I knew I would be back on them in a few weeks. But the Klonopin....oh, geez, that's the only thing you have to watch out for with that.
>
> You are right, I should tell my doctor what I wrote in here. My husband says the same thing. But it is difficult for me to express myself in person due to my social phobia, especially since I don't know this doctor very well. I usually find myself just nodding and agreeing with whatever the doctor says, speaking quietly, and then hating myself for it for days afterwards.
---
alice-
I can't say not speaking up was ever a problem for me--but I've never been in group therapy, and am not sure i ever had social aniety (just about every other type of anxiety--yes!). But, when my panic disorder/aniety/depression was really bad, I was much shyer and very embarrassed about it all--I never would have talked in an open setting about it, as comfortable as I was speaking about other things in public.

What if you write out what you want to tell your doc about the meds and give it to him to read--practice saying "You MUST read this" and then hand the note to him. You express yourself very well here--so writing may be the way to go. Or....maybe your husband can go with you to talk to doc, or you can leave doc a phone mail?

 

Re: To alice...

Posted by Alice on December 31, 1999, at 23:23:14

In reply to To alice..., posted by anna on December 30, 1999, at 13:46:46

Thanks again, Anna. What you say makes sense. My husband has also suggested writing down what I wish to say first, and then bringing it in to the doc's. Writing has always come very easy to me, but not speaking aloud. Think that's what I'll do...appreciate the help!


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