Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 15720

Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by Dee on November 23, 1999, at 23:34:57

I did feel slightly better when I was taking 300mg/day. And I had a few good days - I thought I was beginning to be more social and particiapte in my own life. On my next visit the dose was increased to 450, went through the same bitchy trapping up. Now I have been on 450 for 5 weeks, and my next appointment is ten days from today. I think I have to start considering the possibility that Serzone failed for me.

How do I feel about this? First, I am depressed as hell, and the medicine is not helping. (I had the same thing with St. John's wort in the past, didn't feel like it was doing anything, but was scared to drop it just in case it was doing something and things might get worse.) In the process of elimination, a failure is progress towards the solution. At least now I will know one thing that doesn't work for me. But of course I am scared that nothing will.

Well, I've just started this thing and I shouldn't let me down... It's just that I got a few day's worth of life that I could have, and I was hoping it was some kind of 'coming attractions.' I am sooo disappointed.

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by saint james on November 24, 1999, at 0:34:58

In reply to Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by Dee on November 23, 1999, at 23:34:57

> I did feel slightly better when I was taking 300mg/day. And I had a few good days - I thought I was beginning to be more social and particiapte in my own life. On my next visit the dose was increased to 450, went through the same bitchy trapping up. Now I have been on 450 for 5 weeks, and my next appointment is ten days from today. I think I have to start considering the possibility that Serzone failed for me.
>


James here....

I would agree that you are almost to the point that something should happen. You could hit 6 weeks and it go ! click !. I did once for me, when I stared on AD's in 1985. On April 23, 1985 at 11:13 am in class it went ! click !, after 5 weeks of being groggy plus a few other side effects. No warning, it took me

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by Noa on November 24, 1999, at 5:34:53

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by saint james on November 24, 1999, at 0:34:58

Dee, isn't this all so frustrating?

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by Phil on November 24, 1999, at 6:22:19

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by Noa on November 24, 1999, at 5:34:53

Hi Dee, God, I know how you feel. I was so hopeful with 2 different drugs this past year. Serzone was one of them and I just got depressed as hell on it.
When I first started Effexor, I posted this "hopeful message to all who suffer" cause I felt sooo goood. About 3 days later the ITCHING STARTED!!!
I am back on TCA's for now and feel okay. I have Reboxetine on order from IAS and will talk to my new shrink about starting or augmenting with it when it arrives. If the Nortrip. works well, I may just put the Rebox. on the shelf...who knows? Phil

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by Craig F on November 24, 1999, at 16:19:15

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by Phil on November 24, 1999, at 6:22:19

Golly, Dee, I think I may be in the same boat as you...

I think I'm around week six of Serzone (I titrated up very slowly, just went to 350mgs on my own). Around week three I felt better and less anxious, relaxed around people... But it stopped working -- soon after I had a few drinks one night. May have been linked. It came back a week later after moving up to 300. Surely enough it disappeared again.

Now I'm getting terribly irritable and mean-spirited!!! I had such high hopes, as you did, but I don't think I'm ready to let go just yet.

If this continues, I'll add something else before switching altogether. Do you have something else in mind or are you going to go without a net for the holidays?

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by Jane on November 25, 1999, at 0:22:42

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by Craig F on November 24, 1999, at 16:19:15

hi dee, serzone's maximal dosage prescribed on the product insert is 600 mg/day so if you find that 350 mg/day is doing nothing, maybe your doctor need to evaluate whether you need increased dosage. alot of times increasing dosage is more helpful than switching simply because your body has gotten used to the medication. alcohol does slow down metabolism of many medications which may be why you may not want to drink even one or two when on any medication because it is essentially a "drug" and therefore is prone to "drug-drug interactions".
good luck!
jane

 

Re: What next...

Posted by Dee on November 25, 1999, at 1:45:59

In reply to Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by Dee on November 23, 1999, at 23:34:57

Good question... I'm not sure. Hete's some stuff I'll be going to my doc with
I dont think I am quite ready to give up the possibility of having sex, provided that a day will come that my anxiety will allow me to go out and get some. If I switch the #1 on my wish list would probably be wellbutrin.

On the other hand, I don't want the months with Serzone to be wasted time, and also, somewhere very, very deep I sort of feel that it might be doing something, only I am too anxious to be able to feel it. So I think my first chice will be to stick to Serzone & start mixing.
I'll let you know.

Dee

PS.. Thanksgiving & everything. And I just given cold shoulder to all my friends - sometimes when I am depressed I see sign of rejection all over the places and react to them. Not Good.

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by jamie on November 25, 1999, at 3:32:05

In reply to Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by Dee on November 23, 1999, at 23:34:57

I can't count how many times I've heard this same reaction with serzone. A lot. The normal route is to raise the dose to 600mg or even higher. But from what you describe, I wager you would get worse at a higher dose. Serzone seems like its real black or white...that is, it either works real good or it works real bad, with no iffy in-betweens. If you want to augment it though before switching, try Pindolol. There was a study that showed combination of serzone & pindolol resulted in 90% success rate, with major improvement in the first week.

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by Noa on November 25, 1999, at 7:40:25

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by jamie on November 25, 1999, at 3:32:05

Dee, what about a light box?

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by craigf on November 26, 1999, at 16:31:41

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by jamie on November 25, 1999, at 3:32:05

What is this about Pindolol? I'm unfamiliar with it but was going to add Wellbutrin to my Serzone to boost drive, excitability, combat fatigue, etc., as was Dee.

And Dee, i know what you mean about the Serzone maybe working on very subtle levels. I'm so used to other ADs working in such a clear cut, activating manor, but I am less worrisome and apocolyptic on the Serzone, after some consideration.

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...(to jamie)

Posted by Jane on November 27, 1999, at 10:45:13

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by jamie on November 25, 1999, at 3:32:05

hi jamie, what's another for pindolol? maybe i know it but not by this particular name - and do you know where i can find this study in augmentation to serzone to help it work? that sounds really interesting, but i do hear alot of augmentation to help one med work "better" from a partial/little response in an individual.
jane

 

Re: Serzone is doing nothing...

Posted by Cindy on November 27, 1999, at 19:19:32

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing...(to jamie), posted by Jane on November 27, 1999, at 10:45:13

> hi jamie, what's another for pindolol? maybe i know it but not by this particular name - and do you know where i can find this study in augmentation to serzone to help it work? that sounds really interesting, but i do hear alot of augmentation to help one med work "better" from a partial/little response in an individual.
> jane

Serzone seemed to really help decrease my social anxiety, sense of hopelessness, and depression. When I stopped taking it, I felt a "rebound" back to depression. The max I took was 450 mg/day. Unfortunately, it didn't help with obsessions and compulsions, so I'm now taking EffexorXR. Still, I think Serzone did really help.--Cindy

 

Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers)

Posted by CraigF on December 4, 1999, at 16:38:16

In reply to Re: Serzone is doing nothing..., posted by Cindy on November 27, 1999, at 19:19:32

Cindy, how is the effexor and does it have fewer side effects (cognitive, not physical)?

I'm at such a loss over what to do with Serzone. I will have 2-3 days well-being and less anxiety, but it never lasts longer. Soon I'm angry and spiteful and can't stop obsessing about what's happening in my brain and what a bad person I am (I know that sounds simplistic). The worst thing is a feeling of complete detachment from my social life. There's a huge wall between me and my friends and I always leave early out of frustration. I feel most alone when I'm with other people, if that makes any sense.

I originally thought these bouts were brought on by minor alcohol consumption -- I'm talking 1-3 beers -- but this last time, I crashed without any chemical involvement.

Each time I have these bouts, I've been increasing my dose by 50 mg. thought maybe I've passed the doseage that's right for me and moved to that place I seem to read about where Serzone just adds to the depression. I scaled back to 350 mg today, and now I feel pretty good (although I can't be sure that's why)

Anyone have similar problems? Serzone -- although I'll get angry and obsessive -- keeps my from actually FEELING the suicidal drives and all-encompassing desperation, but I'm not really having any fun. Maybe another drug. Maybe buspar, maybe WB or an older AD.

Maybe i'll just have a few drinks with my friends tonight and force myself to have fun. Damn the torpedoes

 

Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers)

Posted by Cindy on December 5, 1999, at 11:33:01

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by CraigF on December 4, 1999, at 16:38:16

> Cindy, how is the effexor and does it have fewer side effects (cognitive, not physical)?
>
> I'm at such a loss over what to do with Serzone. I will have 2-3 days well-being and less anxiety, but it never lasts longer. Soon I'm angry and spiteful and can't stop obsessing about what's happening in my brain and what a bad person I am (I know that sounds simplistic). The worst thing is a feeling of complete detachment from my social life. There's a huge wall between me and my friends and I always leave early out of frustration. I feel most alone when I'm with other people, if that makes any sense.
>
> I originally thought these bouts were brought on by minor alcohol consumption -- I'm talking 1-3 beers -- but this last time, I crashed without any chemical involvement.
>
> Each time I have these bouts, I've been increasing my dose by 50 mg. thought maybe I've passed the doseage that's right for me and moved to that place I seem to read about where Serzone just adds to the depression. I scaled back to 350 mg today, and now I feel pretty good (although I can't be sure that's why)
>
> Anyone have similar problems? Serzone -- although I'll get angry and obsessive -- keeps my from actually FEELING the suicidal drives and all-encompassing desperation, but I'm not really having any fun. Maybe another drug. Maybe buspar, maybe WB or an older AD.
>CraigF, I like the Effexor so far (am on 150 mg/day in the AM so it doesn't cause insomnia). I feel less depressed and less "obsessed" and worried and don't feel suicidal now. Sorry the Serzone didn't work for you. I didn't feel social detachment with Serzone and in fact felt much more socially self-confident and free. With Effexor, I think I can think more clearly but I don't feel the well-being I felt with Serzone (450 mg/day). Serzone did have minuses for me (visual trails and some dizziness and especially at first, fatigue and anger). Hope you can find a medication that works for you.--Cindy
> Maybe i'll just have a few drinks with my friends tonight and force myself to have fun. Damn the torpedoes

 

Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers)

Posted by Kev on December 5, 1999, at 14:29:46

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by Cindy on December 5, 1999, at 11:33:09

> > "Cindy, how is the effexor and does it have fewer side effects (cognitive, not physical)?"

"With Effexor, I think I can think more clearly"


***Could you please clarify what it means to not be able to think clearly while on Serzone? I am interested in this drug because it is supposedly efficacious for anxiety (having failed to ameliorate this problem with Paxil, Effexor, Buspar, and Epival), but problems with cognition and memory are something I simply cannot afford to have (N.B., impairment of memory and concentration are among the most marked- and emotionally debilitating- features of my depression). In addition, has anyone experienced cognitive problems with Remeron?

-Kev

 

Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers)

Posted by doug on December 5, 1999, at 15:24:15

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by Kev on December 5, 1999, at 14:29:46

> > > "Cindy, how is the effexor and does it have fewer side effects (cognitive, not physical)?"
>
>
> "With Effexor, I think I can think more clearly"
>
>
> ***Could you please clarify what it means to not be able to think clearly while on Serzone? I am interested in this drug because it is supposedly efficacious for anxiety (having failed to ameliorate this problem with Paxil, Effexor, Buspar, and Epival), but problems with cognition and memory are something I simply cannot afford to have (N.B., impairment of memory and concentration are among the most marked- and emotionally debilitating- features of my depression). In addition, has anyone experienced cognitive problems with Remeron?
>
> -Kev
> I have been taking Serzone for about 2 months now. I am up to 300 mgs daily (have been for about
6 weeks). I am taking for social phobia. The only positive is that I have had no sexual side effect (anorgasmia) as I did with Paxil, Luvox, and Celexa. However, and this is a big however, so far I have noticed that it hasn't seemed to help with the social phobia. Also, as for negative side effects it seems to make me somewhat depressed which I hardly ever had a problem with until I started treatment for the social phobia. Also I get somewhat fidgety at times and have difficulty concentrating (it seems like I go blank at work for 5 or 6 seconds before I realize what I was thinking about). It seems to me that 2 months is enough time to gauge Serzone's effectiveness. Anyone have any thoughts on this ? Also, has anyone experiencing social phobia had success with Serzone or with BCT ? I am thinking of trying the benzo or MAOI route.
Thanks,
Doug

 

Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers)

Posted by Doug on December 5, 1999, at 16:07:08

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by doug on December 5, 1999, at 15:24:15

> > > > "Cindy, how is the effexor and does it have fewer side effects (cognitive, not physical)?"
> >
> >
> > "With Effexor, I think I can think more clearly"
> >
> >
> > ***Could you please clarify what it means to not be able to think clearly while on Serzone? I am interested in this drug because it is supposedly efficacious for anxiety (having failed to ameliorate this problem with Paxil, Effexor, Buspar, and Epival), but problems with cognition and memory are something I simply cannot afford to have (N.B., impairment of memory and concentration are among the most marked- and emotionally debilitating- features of my depression). In addition, has anyone experienced cognitive problems with Remeron?
> >
> > -Kev
> > I have been taking Serzone for about 2 months now. I am up to 300 mgs daily (have been for about
> 6 weeks). I am taking for social phobia. The only positive is that I have had no sexual side effect (anorgasmia) as I did with Paxil, Luvox, and Celexa. However, and this is a big however, so far I have noticed that it hasn't seemed to help with the social phobia. Also, as for negative side effects it seems to make me somewhat depressed which I hardly ever had a problem with until I started treatment for the social phobia. Also I get somewhat fidgety at times and have difficulty concentrating (it seems like I go blank at work for 5 or 6 seconds before I realize what I was thinking about). It seems to me that 2 months is enough time to gauge Serzone's effectiveness. Anyone have any thoughts on this ? Also, has anyone experiencing social phobia had success with Serzone or with BCT ? I am thinking of trying the benzo or MAOI route.
> Thanks,
> Doug
Correction to my previous post : BCT was meant as CBT.

 

Re: Serzone

Posted by Noa on December 5, 1999, at 20:59:06

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by Doug on December 5, 1999, at 16:07:08

last week, I increased my serzone from 150 to 187.5, and then to 225, over the course of about 8 days. I definitely noticed a slight increase in AD effect, but on the 225, I am definitely more tired, all through the day. I take the entire 225 in the early evening. I imagine I would be even more drowsy if I took part of the dose in the morning. FYI, for those not familiar with my meds history, serzone is just one of several in my cocktail.

 

Re: Serzone and thinking

Posted by Cindy on December 5, 1999, at 21:20:00

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by Kev on December 5, 1999, at 14:29:46

> > > "Cindy, how is the effexor and does it have fewer side effects (cognitive, not physical)?"
>
>
> "With Effexor, I think I can think more clearly"
>
>
> ***Could you please clarify what it means to not be able to think clearly while on Serzone? I am interested in this drug because it is supposedly efficacious for anxiety (having failed to ameliorate this problem with Paxil, Effexor, Buspar, and Epival), but problems with cognition and memory are something I simply cannot afford to have (N.B., impairment of memory and concentration are among the most marked- and emotionally debilitating- features of my depression). In addition, has anyone experienced cognitive problems with Remeron?
>
> -Kev
Kev, on Serzone, I felt much more emotional...also, I would just talk without thinking much. On Effexor-XR, my mind (which usually races) is much calmer and I can stop and think more clearly without intrusive thoughts. On both medications, I felt MUCH less social anxiety, but with the Effexor, I feel a little more like what it must be to be "normal," I think.--Cindy

 

Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers)

Posted by Cindy on December 5, 1999, at 21:29:15

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by Doug on December 5, 1999, at 16:07:08

> > > > > "Cindy, how is the effexor and does it have fewer side effects (cognitive, not physical)?"
> > >
> > >
> > > "With Effexor, I think I can think more clearly"
> > >
> > >
> > > ***Could you please clarify what it means to not be able to think clearly while on Serzone? I am interested in this drug because it is supposedly efficacious for anxiety (having failed to ameliorate this problem with Paxil, Effexor, Buspar, and Epival), but problems with cognition and memory are something I simply cannot afford to have (N.B., impairment of memory and concentration are among the most marked- and emotionally debilitating- features of my depression). In addition, has anyone experienced cognitive problems with Remeron?
> > >
> > > -Kev
> > > I have been taking Serzone for about 2 months now. I am up to 300 mgs daily (have been for about
> > 6 weeks). I am taking for social phobia. The only positive is that I have had no sexual side effect (anorgasmia) as I did with Paxil, Luvox, and Celexa. However, and this is a big however, so far I have noticed that it hasn't seemed to help with the social phobia. Also, as for negative side effects it seems to make me somewhat depressed which I hardly ever had a problem with until I started treatment for the social phobia. Also I get somewhat fidgety at times and have difficulty concentrating (it seems like I go blank at work for 5 or 6 seconds before I realize what I was thinking about). It seems to me that 2 months is enough time to gauge Serzone's effectiveness. Anyone have any thoughts on this ? Also, has anyone experiencing social phobia had success with Serzone or with BCT ? I am thinking of trying the benzo or MAOI route.
> > Thanks,
> > Doug
> Correction to my previous post : BCT was meant as CBT.
Doug, when doing therapy groups at work (scary for me, and anxiety-arousing, usually), I found that on Serzone, I didn't have the anxiety I usually have. I think my "performances" as group leader were the best I have ever done, and the people in the group seemed to really respond to my spontaneous verbalizations (I felt like I was talking without thinking). On Effexor, I still feel less anxious around people but don't have the sense of well-being and feel that my mind is calmer, but I am "censoring" or at least monitoring my thoughts before I speak them. My mind feels much calmer (fewer "racing" thoughts or intrusive, negative thoughts). I don't feel either medication affected my concentration, memory, or attention adversely. I am taking 150 mg/day of Effexor-XR at present, and before took 450 mg/day of Serzone.--Cindy

 

What I think...

Posted by greg on March 23, 2000, at 17:58:03

In reply to Re: For Cindy (& anyone w/all the answers), posted by Cindy on December 5, 1999, at 21:29:15

read every post...interesting testimonials...was prescribed serzone today, will start tomorrow morning...have never taken an anti-depressant, will let you know what i think


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