Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 15385

Shown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

moclobemide

Posted by roberto on November 17, 1999, at 12:21:55

I started taking Moclobemide about a month ago (first
300 mg, then 450 mg. Everything went down the drain.
Not only did the depression not improve, it became a lot worse.
The side effects are everything but tolerable: extreme anxiety
with constant and tormenting obsessions at certain times of the day
(mainly in the afternoon), extreme agitation and restlessness
(I have spent hours at night walking to and fro like a tiger in a cage),
tension so bad that I can hardly concentrate and an apathy such that I feel
cut off from all sensations or contact with this earth, sort of like a ghost.
Real frightening! The depressive state prior to this medication was pleasant
by comparison.

Has anyone experienced anything similar? I would very much like to know that
I'm not the only one who cannot take this drug.

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by mat on November 17, 1999, at 15:10:26

In reply to moclobemide, posted by roberto on November 17, 1999, at 12:21:55

Hi Roberto

I started taking moclobemide 2 weeks ago (300mg).

No side effects so far. In fact no effects whatsoever.

I'm about to up my dose to 600mg.

I've also tried Prozac and Effexor - these had the same non-effect.

Have you had negative effects from other meds?

mat

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by JohnL on November 17, 1999, at 17:46:56

In reply to moclobemide, posted by roberto on November 17, 1999, at 12:21:55


> Has anyone experienced anything similar? I would very much like to know that
> I'm not the only one who cannot take this drug.
>

If you're looking for someone who has experienced the same as you on Moclobemide, you found him.

I read up a lot on Moclobemide before trying it. I was so impressed. Its supposed lack of side effects. Its supposed benefit in all subtypes of depression. Its lack of sexual side effects. Prosexual effects sometimes. I mean, on paper it looks like a miracle drug. When reading about the side effects, worsened depression was mentioned as a possibility in less than 1% of clinical trial patients. Anxiety too. Exactly as you described.

I think that 'less than 1%' is a bit inaccurate. There are two of us from that 1% right here. Come on. Makes me wonder how accurate those clinical studies are sometimes. Anyway, yes, me too...more depressed, a restless gritting the teeth kind of anxiously angry feeling. Yuck! And it gave me bad sexual probs to boot. Totally unexpected. Totally disappointing. I was no where near being cured previously, but I was a whole lot better, and I'm just trying to regain lost ground now. Moclobemide really set me back. I wonder if I can even return to where I was before. Hey, one good thing though, Moclobemide has a very short halflife with only a two day washout period. I've already said 'see-ya' to that drug. It's a miracle drug to someone else, but not me.

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 17, 1999, at 20:29:17

In reply to moclobemide, posted by roberto on November 17, 1999, at 12:21:55

> I started taking Moclobemide about a month ago (first
> 300 mg, then 450 mg. Everything went down the drain.
> Not only did the depression not improve, it became a lot worse.

> Has anyone experienced anything similar? I would very much like to know that
> I'm not the only one who cannot take this drug.


Yes !!!

I thought I was the only one to experience this. I didn't want to post anything about it as not to dissuade anyone from trying it. Moclobemide made me feel worse than I ever have before of since. Thank God it has such a short half-live. Things got better within two days after discontinuation.

I have one thought as to why it happened. I came across an abstract which concluded that moclobemide causes depletion of dopamine stores in certain areas of the brain. I don't remember which ones, but I believe they were limbic. I may go back to see if I can find it. For a long time I have suspected that my particular illness involves dopamine activity. This paper added another log to the fire.


Thanks a lot for the post.
I'm relieved to know that I wasn't the only one.


- Scott

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by JohnL on November 18, 1999, at 3:12:47

In reply to moclobemide, posted by roberto on November 17, 1999, at 12:21:55


Well Roberta, it appears it isn't just you. Three of us so far with the same bad experience. Perhaps this has something to do with Moclobemide's spotty real-world performance record. ??? I've heard a few good reports on Moclobemide, but obviously there are some really negative reports too, like ours, to deserve notice.

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 18, 1999, at 8:31:02

In reply to Re: moclobemide, posted by JohnL on November 18, 1999, at 3:12:47


> Well Roberta, it appears it isn't just you. Three of us so far with the same bad experience. Perhaps this has something to do with Moclobemide's spotty real-world performance record. ??? I've heard a few good reports on Moclobemide, but obviously there are some really negative reports too, like ours, to deserve notice.

I don't see our experiences with moclobemide as merely a lack of efficacy. It definitely was a very bad reaction to it that we have described as being a worsening of the depression itself - perhaps with a touch of anxiety on the side.

If this thing was seen in pre-marketing trials, its significance probably got lost in the statistics as a simple non-response. A more cynical view of the funded research is that such a result would be the wrong answer.


- Scott


* This was a very important thread to me personally. Thank-you both for posting.

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp on November 19, 1999, at 11:32:32

In reply to Re: moclobemide, posted by mat on November 17, 1999, at 15:10:26

> Hi Roberto
>
> I started taking moclobemide 2 weeks ago (300mg).
>
> No side effects so far. In fact no effects whatsoever.
>
> I'm about to up my dose to 600mg.
>
> I've also tried Prozac and Effexor - these had the same non-effect.
>
> Have you had negative effects from other meds?
>
> mat

Hi Mat,

Thanks for your answer. I quit Moclobemide today because it was
not effective and the side effects were intolerable. Before I tried
Paxil, which was effective but gave me the famous "ejaculatory delay"
side effect (reason why I tried to switch to Moclobemide). If you have
no side effects on Moclobemide, try a higher dose - maybe it will work.
If nothing happens, try a tricyclic, a conventional MAOI or one of the
"outsiders" (Wellbutrin, Remeron, Tianeptine or Edronax). The important
thing is too have a good shrink you can find the right medication for
your case. The one who prescribed me the moclo was a total jerk - I suffer
from recurrent agitated depression, for which the drug is contraindicated!
One other thing: Has your doctor checked you for physical diseases, such as
tyrhoid and endocrine disorders, which may cause depression? I'm told that
if you have such a disease, any antidepressant is a waste of time - the only
way to get rid of the depression is to treat the disease. I hope I'm not boring
you with so much chat - it's because I have a deep sympathy for anyone who, like
me, is suffering from this horrible disease. Maybe we'll get better someday and
have a party. Wish you all the best!

Roberto

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp on November 19, 1999, at 11:57:42

In reply to Re: moclobemide, posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 17, 1999, at 20:29:17

> > I started taking Moclobemide about a month ago (first
> > 300 mg, then 450 mg. Everything went down the drain.
> > Not only did the depression not improve, it became a lot worse.
>
> > Has anyone experienced anything similar? I would very much like to know that
> > I'm not the only one who cannot take this drug.
>
>
> Yes !!!
>
> I thought I was the only one to experience this. I didn't want to post anything about it as not to dissuade anyone from trying it. Moclobemide made me feel worse than I ever have before of since. Thank God it has such a short half-live. Things got better within two days after discontinuation.
>
> I have one thought as to why it happened. I came across an abstract which concluded that moclobemide causes depletion of dopamine stores in certain areas of the brain. I don't remember which ones, but I believe they were limbic. I may go back to see if I can find it. For a long time I have suspected that my particular illness involves dopamine activity. This paper added another log to the fire.
>
>
> Thanks a lot for the post.
> I'm relieved to know that I wasn't the only one.
>
>
> - Scott

Hi Scott,

I found something that may go in the direction of your theory:
MOCLOBEMIDE
Humans now have the capacity to choose their own individual level of activity or inhibition of
the two primary monoamine oxidases. This does not quite enable the fine-tuning of
personality variables with the functional equivalent of a graphic equaliser. It still represents
a promising start. In MAO-inhibition, as in life, more is not always better. Excessive
dosages of l-deprenyl intake, for instance, may actually shorten, not increase, life expectancy
- at least in Parkinsonians if it's combined with l-dopa. And levels of above 80% inhibition of
MAO-A may lead to a sharp and possibly unwanted fall in dopamine synthesis. Repairing
Nature's niggardliness will be a priority for the decades ahead.
Source: http://www.neuropharmacology.com/

By the way: As this source quotes Moclobemide as having been called the "gentle MAOI", I sent them my experience report. Maybe they'll reconsider on this qualification.

If you find your source, please let me know.

Kind regards,
Roberto

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by Ant-Z on November 22, 1999, at 15:58:53

In reply to Re: moclobemide, posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp on November 19, 1999, at 11:32:32

> > Hi Roberto
> >
> > I started taking moclobemide 2 weeks ago (300mg).
> >
> > No side effects so far. In fact no effects whatsoever.
> >
> > I'm about to up my dose to 600mg.
> >
> > I've also tried Prozac and Effexor - these had the same non-effect.
> >
> > Have you had negative effects from other meds?
> >
> > mat
>
> Hi Mat,
>
> Thanks for your answer. I quit Moclobemide today because it was
> not effective and the side effects were intolerable. Before I tried
> Paxil, which was effective but gave me the famous "ejaculatory delay"
> side effect (reason why I tried to switch to Moclobemide). If you have
> no side effects on Moclobemide, try a higher dose - maybe it will work.
> If nothing happens, try a tricyclic, a conventional MAOI or one of the
> "outsiders" (Wellbutrin, Remeron, Tianeptine or Edronax). The important
> thing is too have a good shrink you can find the right medication for
> your case. The one who prescribed me the moclo was a total jerk - I suffer
> from recurrent agitated depression, for which the drug is contraindicated!
> One other thing: Has your doctor checked you for physical diseases, such as
> tyrhoid and endocrine disorders, which may cause depression? I'm told that
> if you have such a disease, any antidepressant is a waste of time - the only
> way to get rid of the depression is to treat the disease. I hope I'm not boring
> you with so much chat - it's because I have a deep sympathy for anyone who, like
> me, is suffering from this horrible disease. Maybe we'll get better someday and
> have a party. Wish you all the best!
>
> Roberto

Hi Roberto,
Could you explain what the drug "Tianeptine" you mentioned is?
I've heard about it somewhere before but am not sure what class its in or how it works.
Much appreciated,
Ant-Z

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by roberto muehlenkamp on November 23, 1999, at 3:31:12

In reply to Re: moclobemide, posted by Ant-Z on November 22, 1999, at 15:58:53

> > > Hi Roberto
> > >
> > > I started taking moclobemide 2 weeks ago (300mg).
> > >
> > > No side effects so far. In fact no effects whatsoever.
> > >
> > > I'm about to up my dose to 600mg.
> > >
> > > I've also tried Prozac and Effexor - these had the same non-effect.
> > >
> > > Have you had negative effects from other meds?
> > >
> > > mat
> >
> > Hi Mat,
> >
> > Thanks for your answer. I quit Moclobemide today because it was
> > not effective and the side effects were intolerable. Before I tried
> > Paxil, which was effective but gave me the famous "ejaculatory delay"
> > side effect (reason why I tried to switch to Moclobemide). If you have
> > no side effects on Moclobemide, try a higher dose - maybe it will work.
> > If nothing happens, try a tricyclic, a conventional MAOI or one of the
> > "outsiders" (Wellbutrin, Remeron, Tianeptine or Edronax). The important
> > thing is too have a good shrink you can find the right medication for
> > your case. The one who prescribed me the moclo was a total jerk - I suffer
> > from recurrent agitated depression, for which the drug is contraindicated!
> > One other thing: Has your doctor checked you for physical diseases, such as
> > tyrhoid and endocrine disorders, which may cause depression? I'm told that
> > if you have such a disease, any antidepressant is a waste of time - the only
> > way to get rid of the depression is to treat the disease. I hope I'm not boring
> > you with so much chat - it's because I have a deep sympathy for anyone who, like
> > me, is suffering from this horrible disease. Maybe we'll get better someday and
> > have a party. Wish you all the best!
> >
> > Roberto
>
> Hi Roberto,
> Could you explain what the drug "Tianeptine" you mentioned is?
> I've heard about it somewhere before but am not sure what class its in or how it works.
> Much appreciated,
> Ant-Z
Look up
http://www.neuropharmacology.com/
This site mentions Tianeptine and will lead you to other information
about it.
Roberto

 

Re: moclobemide

Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 25, 1999, at 12:06:04

In reply to Re: moclobemide, posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp on November 19, 1999, at 11:57:42

> > > I started taking Moclobemide about a month ago (first
> > > 300 mg, then 450 mg. Everything went down the drain.
> > > Not only did the depression not improve, it became a lot worse.
> >
> > > Has anyone experienced anything similar? I would very much like to know that
> > > I'm not the only one who cannot take this drug.
> >
> >
> > Yes !!!
> >
> > I thought I was the only one to experience this. I didn't want to post anything about it as not to dissuade anyone from trying it. Moclobemide made me feel worse than I ever have before of since. Thank God it has such a short half-live. Things got better within two days after discontinuation.
> >
> > I have one thought as to why it happened. I came across an abstract which concluded that moclobemide causes depletion of dopamine stores in certain areas of the brain. I don't remember which ones, but I believe they were limbic. I may go back to see if I can find it. For a long time I have suspected that my particular illness involves dopamine activity. This paper added another log to the fire.
> >
> >
> > Thanks a lot for the post.
> > I'm relieved to know that I wasn't the only one.
> >
> >
>
> I found something that may go in the direction of your theory:
> MOCLOBEMIDE
> Humans now have the capacity to choose their own individual level of activity or inhibition of
> the two primary monoamine oxidases. This does not quite enable the fine-tuning of
> personality variables with the functional equivalent of a graphic equaliser. It still represents
> a promising start. In MAO-inhibition, as in life, more is not always better. Excessive
> dosages of l-deprenyl intake, for instance, may actually shorten, not increase, life expectancy
> - at least in Parkinsonians if it's combined with l-dopa. And levels of above 80% inhibition of
> MAO-A may lead to a sharp and possibly unwanted fall in dopamine synthesis. Repairing
> Nature's niggardliness will be a priority for the decades ahead.
> Source: http://www.neuropharmacology.com/
>
> By the way: As this source quotes Moclobemide as having been called the "gentle MAOI", I sent them my experience report. Maybe they'll reconsider on this qualification.
>
> If you find your source, please let me know.
>
> Kind regards,
> Roberto


Hi Roberto.


Here are a couple of studies involving the changes that moclobemide may have on dopamine activity. I know it's a bit of a mental leap, but perhaps the increased release of dopapine without any compensatory blockade of MAO-B eventually leads to dopamine depletion. Synthesis of new dopamine might also be decreased due to the stimulation of greater numbers of presynaptic autoreceptors.

These are just two studies conducted six to nine years ago involving only striatal tissue. They may not be at all relevant.


- Scott


---------------------------------------------------


J Pharmacol Exp Ther 1993 Apr;265(1):103-11

Monoamine oxidase-A inhibitors and dopamine metabolism in rat caudatus: evidence that an increased cytosolic level of dopamine displaces reversible monoamine oxidase-A inhibitors in vivo.

Colzi A, D'Agostini F, Cesura AM, Borroni E, Da Prada M
Pharma Division, Preclinical Research, F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd, Basel, Switzerland.

The effects of reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase-A (moclobemide, Ro 41-1049, both 20 mg/kg, i.p., and brofaromine, 10 mg/kg, i.p.) on the outflow of dopamine (DA) and its metabolites (3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid and homovanillic acid) as well as of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid was investigated by trans-striatal microdialysis in rats. These drugs markedly increased the level of DA in the dialysis fluid by 100% of basal values and concomitantly reduced the output of 3,4-dihydroxy-phenylacetic acid and homovanillic acid by 90%. The presence of tetrodotoxin in the perfusion fluid decreased the basal DA outflow and virtually abolished the rise in DA efflux after moclobemide administration. On the other hand, tetrodotoxin did not counteract the DA outflow induced by Ro 4-1284 (1 mg/kg, i.p.), a tetrabenazine derivative which rapidly releases DA from vesicles and causes a massive increase in the concentration of extravesicular amine. The injection of Ro 4-1284 30 min after moclobemide, brofaromine or Ro 41-1049 induced a 6-fold increase in DA outflow, which was accompanied by a transient increase in 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid levels. This latter effect was more marked for moclobemide than for the other two reversible inhibitors tested and was not observed in rats given the irreversible inhibitor clorgyline (5 mg/kg, i.p.). These results support the view that a large increase in the concentration of endogenous substrates in the cytosol might displace reversible monoamine oxidase-A inhibitors from the enzyme active sites. Therefore, the microdialysis technique seems to be a reliable in vivo method for assessing the degree of reversibility of monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

PMID: 8473998, UI: 93232983


------------------------------------------------


J Neural Transm Suppl 1990;32:79-84

Effect of selective and reversible MAO inhibitors on dopamine outflow in rat striatum: a microdialysis study.

Colzi A, d'Agostini F, Kettler R, Borroni E, Da Prada M
Pharmaceutical Research Department, F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd, Basel, Switzerland.

The effect of reversible inhibitors of the monoamine oxidase type A (MAO-A), moclobemide (Aurorix) and Ro 41-1049 (20 mg/kg i.p. each), as well as of reversible inhibitors of the MAO type B (MAO-B), Ro 19-6327 (1 mg/kg i.p.), on the outflow of dopamine (DA), 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC) and homovanillic acid (HVA) was studied in the rat by transstriatal microdialysis. Reversible MAO-A inhibitors markedly increased the output of DA and concomitantly decreased the output of DOPAC and HVA. These effects were absent with the highly selective MAO-B inhibitor Ro 19-6327.

PMID: 2089114, UI: 91210769


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.