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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by anita on November 12, 1999, at 1:01:11
Has anyone found that a dose higher than the standard one (900mg) worked when the standard dose didn't?
I'm not sure I'm feeling any better after 6 wks on 900mg, and am wondering if I should give it another chance at a higher dose, say, 4-6 pills/day.
Anyone know anything about this?thanks,
anita
Posted by JohnL on November 12, 1999, at 2:41:15
In reply to High-dose St. John's Wort?, posted by anita on November 12, 1999, at 1:01:11
> Has anyone found that a dose higher than the standard one (900mg) worked when the standard dose didn't?
> I'm not sure I'm feeling any better after 6 wks on 900mg, and am wondering if I should give it another chance at a higher dose, say, 4-6 pills/day.
> Anyone know anything about this?
>
> thanks,
> anitaHi Anita. I think I've read every clinical study done on St Johns. Actually I might have missed some, but I've read dozens, maybe hundreds, of St Johns studies. What is interesting is that in several clinical studies a dose of 2700mg was used. That's nine pills a day. The LI160 formula (Kira here in USA). And I remember 1800mg being used as well.
Personally I've gone as high as 1800mg. I noticed some side effects at that dose. For example, a little bit speedy during the day, sweating in my sleep. I know side effects are clamimed to be nonexistent, but they prevented me from going up to 2700mg like I wanted to.
I believe our standard USA dose of 900mg is way too low. Another study made a comparison that implied 300mg St Johns is equal in efficacy to 10mg of a TCA. If that comparison is accurate, then 9 pills a day would certainly be more in a therapeutic range than 3 would. Sunlight sensitivity is the only formal warning of high doses of St Johns, but even then it applies only to certain ethnic groups and very fair-skinned people. In actuality, the only creatures ever sunburned by too much St Johns were cows who grazed on it all day and took in much more than we possibly could by dosing. Must have been some happy cows! :)
Anyway, the answer to your question is Yes, you can take St Johns all the way up to 2700mg. I like it best at 5 pills a day (1500mg). Gotta have the good stuff though...Kira, Movana, or Perika.
Posted by Craig on November 12, 1999, at 18:03:44
In reply to Re: High-dose St. John's Wort?, posted by JohnL on November 12, 1999, at 2:41:15
Did you find in your extensive studies any reports of dizziness, lowered blood pressure, loss of appetite? I had those problems after four weeks and 900 mg and had to stop. No one has been able to relate to me in this, however.
Posted by JohnL on November 13, 1999, at 1:46:09
In reply to Re: High-dose St. John's Wort?, posted by Craig on November 12, 1999, at 18:03:44
> Did you find in your extensive studies any reports of dizziness, lowered blood pressure, loss of appetite? I had those problems after four weeks and 900 mg and had to stop. No one has been able to relate to me in this, however.
Well, I wouldn't call my studies extensive. Just curious with lots of time. :) Funny you should mention the side effects you did, because those have actually been reported in literature. Especially the appetite probs. I've heard reports of blood pressure increases, other reports of decreases. And dizziness yes. I know for me St Johns gave a urination urgency and difficulty similar to an anticholinergenic med like a TCA. And kind of a speedy feeling sometimes. Gritting the teeth kind of. I am surprised though that the side effects for you were bad enough to discontinue because 900mg is pretty low.
Posted by Dee on November 15, 1999, at 21:42:37
In reply to Re: High-dose St. John's Wort? Craig, posted by JohnL on November 13, 1999, at 1:46:09
I've taken up to eight times the recommended dose, without noticing any improvement. Just doesn't work for me.
Posted by JohnL on November 16, 1999, at 2:51:22
In reply to Re: High-dose St. John's Wort? Craig, posted by Dee on November 15, 1999, at 21:42:37
> I've taken up to eight times the recommended dose, without noticing any improvement. Just doesn't work for me.
Eight times the normal dose??? That's 24 pills a day ya know. How long did you do that? And what brand did you use? Timing and brand are crucial with St Johns, as is high dose. You certainly qualifiy in the high-dose dept, and then some, but I wonder about how long you did it and what brand? Does make a big difference. Even precrip SSRIs take 3 months to pass fair judegment.
Posted by Dee on November 18, 1999, at 12:45:21
In reply to Re: High-dose St. John's Wort? Dee, posted by JohnL on November 16, 1999, at 2:51:22
I was taking the Vitamin Shoppe brand, The Vitamin Shpoppe St. John's Wort. For some five months, I think, going rapidly from the recommended dose way up.
I did not have a p-doc at the time, and I was doing very badly, and I just didn't have the courage to stop just in case there was an improvement and my condition might get worse if I stopeed.
I just dropped it when I got my prescriptions.
Dee
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