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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 39. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Luke on October 28, 1999, at 12:30:26
I have been taking reboxetine (Edronax) for depression for about a week. I am noticing positive effects, especially in relation to increased energy. However, despite the manufacturer's claim that reboxetine causes much less sexual dysfunction than SSRIs, I am totally impotent while on the drug. The manufacturer also claims side effects diminish after a few weeks, but I would rather hear that from someone who has actually taken the drug.
Does anyone have any experience with reboxetine?
Posted by Todd on October 28, 1999, at 18:29:51
In reply to Reboxetine, posted by Luke on October 28, 1999, at 12:30:26
How did you get on reboxetine? Are you in the USA? I want to try this drug. Hell my libido is crap anyway so I am hoping it will improve mine and if it does not, well that is just way it is.
CAN you tell I am depressed?....geez dont even care about it anymore.
Posted by JohnL on October 29, 1999, at 4:08:13
In reply to Reboxetine, posted by Luke on October 28, 1999, at 12:30:26
Sorry, no experience here. But I am very interested either as monotherapy or adding to Prozac. Prozac gives me no problems in the sex department.I know it seems like forever, I've been there. But I think you would do well to wait it out another 6 weeks to see if the sex prob is a side effect that will go away. If your girlfriend/wife will wait that long. It does seem like forever, doesn't it. Man, I hate being in that situation. Truly wishing you well though. Hang in there and see how it goes. I'm on the sidelines cheering for ya.
Posted by Luke on October 29, 1999, at 10:28:47
In reply to Reboxetine, posted by Luke on October 28, 1999, at 12:30:26
I got the rebox just 13 days after emailing IAS. Somehow it made it to me very quickly, even though they had the wrong state, but correct zip code, on the package.
Posted by Adam on October 29, 1999, at 13:19:16
In reply to Reboxetine, posted by Luke on October 28, 1999, at 12:30:26
This talk about sexual dysfunction has me worried...
I have had only brief trials on TCAs like imipramine and desipramine
(and clomipramine, now that I think about it). I found them all nearly
intolerable. Physical misery in a pill. The side effect of these drugs
I found most distressing was almost complete sexual dysfunction. I mean
NO ability to even get close to an orgasm and barely enough response to
produce a disapointing state of turgidity.That this could be a function of elevated NE hadn't occurred to me.
Given all the theories out there, there's no reason to think it would,
but I prefer firsthand accounts over cute and unproven mechanistics.
Using rebox. as an augmentation was something I was very much
looking forward to trying.> I have been taking reboxetine (Edronax) for depression for about a week. I am noticing positive effects, especially in relation to increased energy. However, despite the manufacturer's claim that reboxetine causes much less sexual dysfunction than SSRIs, I am totally impotent while on the drug. The manufacturer also claims side effects diminish after a few weeks, but I would rather hear that from someone who has actually taken the drug.
> Does anyone have any experience with reboxetine?
Posted by Bob on October 29, 1999, at 14:14:30
In reply to Re: Reboxetine, posted by Adam on October 29, 1999, at 13:19:16
> This talk about sexual dysfunction has me worried...
Adam, sounds like the spirit is willing but the body isn't able. Have you tried Viagra? Talk to your Pdoc ... Pfizer's been mailing out enough free samples to initiate a baby boom. Given that they make Zoloft as well, it's rather appropriate that the do something to handle its side effects ;^)
Viagra really is targeted at the physical side of the process, but as I've mentioned in other threads, it can give you a bit of a kick in the brain's primal urges section. Doesn't do much for intimacy or romance, but you didn't say anything about that being a problem.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Judy on October 29, 1999, at 17:52:25
In reply to Re: Reboxetine, posted by Bob on October 29, 1999, at 14:14:30
> Viagra really is targeted at the physical side of the process...it can give you a bit of a kick in the brain's primal urges section. Doesn't do much for intimacy or romance...So, Bob, basically you're saying this is a "guy" kinda thing, huh? Darn it!
Judy
Posted by Phil on October 29, 1999, at 21:54:33
In reply to Re: Reboxetine, posted by Judy on October 29, 1999, at 17:52:25
>
> > Viagra really is targeted at the physical side of the process...it can give you a bit of a kick in the brain's primal urges section. Doesn't do much for intimacy or romance...
>
>
>
> So, Bob, basically you're saying this is a "guy" kinda thing, huh? Darn it!
>
> Judy>>HA HA! Well Judy, at least it might get the plumbing working again...I be puttin on Barry White and buying roses and...
Phil
Posted by Bob on October 30, 1999, at 16:48:43
In reply to Re: Reboxetine-Judy, posted by Phil on October 29, 1999, at 21:54:33
I wouldn't be so discouraged, Judy.
I don't know the specifics of how Pfizer tested it, but it certainly seemed from all the initial press and Bob Dole commercials that it was intended to put some iron in a guy's pipe.
Since then, however, I've heard a lot of informal accounts of women taking it as well. If my "primal urge" thought is on the mark, then I don't see why there'd be that much of a difference in turning up the heat. When I've taken it, I have felt flushed throughout my body, not just between my legs, and I can't see why that sort of physical arousal wouldn't affect everyone.
So, Judy, you might as well ask your pdoc for some anyway. Why not? (well ... you aren't in danger of having any heart attacks, are you?)
Bob
Posted by Judy on October 30, 1999, at 17:47:04
In reply to Re: Reboxetine-Judy, posted by Bob on October 30, 1999, at 16:48:43
>> Why not? (well ... you aren't in danger of having any heart attacks, are you?)
Bob,
Maybe that depends on how good it gets!?! Seriously, I've already been offered Viagra by my Pdoc (a script - no freebies) but my problem is that I CAN function (stay tuned for News at 11, however) - I just don't care anymore! I'm not sure Viagra is going to help with the desire-thing that I'm missing - at least not in a long-term way.
Incidently, my Pdoc also commented that he feels Viagra is safe to use with an MAOI - a real departure from most drugs, since almost nothing can be taken safely with MAOI's. (Maybe something for other MAOI users to check out with their own Pdocs).
Judy
Posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 1:06:25
In reply to Viagra - Bob, posted by Judy on October 30, 1999, at 17:47:04
> ... my problem is that I CAN function (stay tuned for News at 11, however) - I just don't care anymore! I'm not sure Viagra is going to help with the desire-thing that I'm missing - at least not in a long-term way.
Geez, Judy, just when I was set to mail you mine. ;^)
Lack of "appetite" is the same problem with me. I kept saying "no" to Viagra because of exactly this point and my concern that if it failed to help, that would just make matters worse. Finally, my girlfriend was so pushy about it I caved in.
Big mistake.
My suspicions were right. The body was willing, some sort of instinctual drive was revved up, but my emotions were completely flat and detached ... for me, it made sex pretty horrific. Now, my "headaches" are twice as bad as before -- instead of having no desire, I have a strong desire to avoid it.
So, I've been giving considerable thought to the contemplative life lately....
Bob
Posted by Judy on October 31, 1999, at 10:10:09
In reply to Re: Viagra - Bob, posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 1:06:25
> So, I've been giving considerable thought to the contemplative life lately....
Bob,I checked the Boston Globe Help Wanted's for you today. There was one opening for a monk in the Himalayas...
I've given a lot of thought to Karma. Was I such a screw-up in a previous life that I'm saddled with such cruel irony this time around? Not just in matters sexual, but that's one of the most glaring examples. For the past 15 years, I've either had an "appetite" for intimacy but been unable to respond physically, or vice versa, as an AD side effect or depression sypmtom. One of my most unnerving experiences was when I took Lithium to augment an MAOI and found it to be a magical, mystical aphrodisiac of biblical proportion (all my erogenous zones were keening!); BUT, the lithium also made me too catonic mentally to act on it! How's that for a slap in the face? Almost reminds me of the horror stories I've read about people being anesthetized for surgery and being unable to communicate that they are conscious and feeling the pain of the surgery! (Okay - not that bad - but you get the drift.)
So what do we try next?
Judy
Posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 15:11:42
In reply to Re: Viagra - Bob, posted by Judy on October 31, 1999, at 10:10:09
> > So, I've been giving considerable thought to the contemplative life lately....
> I checked the Boston Globe Help Wanted's for you today. There was one opening for a monk in the Himalayas...
Not bad ... i might ask you for that. Was thinking more recently about New Skete (the German Shepard Monks), but they're orthodox christian ... I'm closer to the Society of Friends (in terms of organized religions) than anything else.
> So what do we try next?
I vote for sensory deprivation tanks. If we think we're numb, maybe its time to retrain our bodies and minds as to what no response (since there'd be nothing external to respond to) really means.
The serious question:
For those out there who *have* been in the "able body, unwilling spirit" situation -- absolutely no desire for sex -- have you been able to escape? If so, how?
Kicking my Z habit will, I hope, improve this issue considerably, but I wonder how much of the problem, when it comes to no desire, can truly be chalked up to medication alone, and not some psychological issues.
Bob
Posted by dove on November 3, 1999, at 12:25:13
In reply to Re: What next? (with a serious inquiry...), posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 15:11:42
Hey Bob, you still around? I was thinking quite a bit about your question and didn't really find any concrete answers. I do have some pretty basic ideas though. My husband struggles with down periods, very harsh and hopeless and detached, I don't know if it qualifies as depression in comparison to say *me* but it is really a dark mood that he gets into.
To encourage him to reach out and get his brain back into the living, I touch him a lot. And no, not that kind of touching, just letting him know that I notice him, walking past him and giving him a hug or touching his arm with a squeeze. All touch is nonsexual, nondemanding, nonaggressive and purely aimed at his deep nonsexual feelings. I also put my troubles on the backburner and attend to his feelings, thoughts ect.. I try not to add my garbage to his garbage at that point.
I think it's really important not to emphasize or pressurize performance at this point. This same approach is reciprocated when I'm the one under the dark moon.
After 1-4 days of this, there is almost always a positive response of some kind. Very often we realize that we are feeding the same demon so to speak. Taking time to put the other person first helps both of us. The demand free touching and nonjudgemental listening (including no fix-it like this advice) really opens the love-lines and enables us both to reconnect on a visceral level. It's not a cure-all or a perfect approach but it has it's merits in our relationship.
Just some thoughts, and hope the kicking of Z ain't hurtin' ya' too much.
dove
Posted by Bruce on November 3, 1999, at 14:25:23
In reply to Re: Reboxetine-Judy, posted by Bob on October 30, 1999, at 16:48:43
Luke -
Hows it going? I am curious as to any other side effects
you may be experiencing, other than the big 'I'.Bruce
Posted by Bob on November 3, 1999, at 14:30:50
In reply to What next? (rambling/non-technical), posted by dove on November 3, 1999, at 12:25:13
> Hey Bob, you still around?
Yeah, just super super busy the last three days and, as for today, busy putting on my steel-toed boots and sharpening my whupass-sized can opener ... yep, another meeting at work and the absolute last straw. My boss and HR director have demonstrated that there is no hope for a reasonable, internal solution, so they're about to get hit with what should be a world full of administrative pain. But enough about workplace discrimination, I'll start a new thread once the action begins....
I really do appreciate your thoughts and suggestions, dove. I wish to God that they'd work. But what you mentioned is what I've tried and it's what she rejects. She focuses on the biggest issues, ignoring the fact that it's the small stuff (contrary to popular self-help book titles) that really matters. Who is it that's in the details? The devil or God? Well, for us its the devil because it is those little things, that casual closeness -- in, of, and for itself -- that our relationship has failed in achieving. They mean a lot to me and nothing to her.
> Just some thoughts, and hope the kicking of Z ain't hurtin' ya' too much.
Thanks for that, too! =^) Actually, I'm in week 2 of the taper. Monday 10/25 I dropped from 200 to 100mg of Z per day ... Friday I was a bit jittery, but this weekend I've felt great ... kind of anti-withrawal. I dropped to 50mg this Monday and its still smooth sailing. Maybe it was such a shit to me while I was trying to get my body to cooperate with it that now that I'm going off, my system is sending me a "Thank You" card ... ;^)
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Phil on November 3, 1999, at 17:04:44
In reply to thanks, dove (and kicking various targets), posted by Bob on November 3, 1999, at 14:30:50
> > Hey Bob, you still around?
>
> Yeah, just super super busy the last three days and, as for today, busy putting on my steel-toed boots and sharpening my whupass-sized can opener ... yep, another meeting at work and the absolute last straw. My boss and HR director have demonstrated that there is no hope for a reasonable, internal solution, so they're about
to get hit with what should be a world full of administrative pain. But enough about workplace discrimination, I'll start a new thread once the action begins....
>
> >
> > Good luck on this shouldn't have to be happnin' stuff. I wouldn't want to be on their side of the desk!Phil
Posted by Luke on November 3, 1999, at 18:07:59
In reply to Re: Reboxetine-Judy, posted by Bruce on November 3, 1999, at 14:25:23
Bruce-
Other side effects
For the first few days I was unusually irratable. That has passed, but I am only just beginning to notice a change for the better in mood.
At first I would find myself spacing out - not real bad, but enough to notice. That seems to be passing.
One thing that really surprised me - for the first few days I felt quite anti-social. I was quiet, didn't have any desire to participate in conversation, etc. That is passing.
Sometimes for an hour or two after a dose I get cold, which is unusual because I am very hot natured.
That's really the only things I have noticed, other than the problems below the waist, which have improved. What about you?I think I am beginning to notice the increase in drive, motivation and the desire to be social that the manufaturer boasts about. I am a journalist, so self-motivation and the ability to do a of interacting with people is important.
Posted by Bob on November 4, 1999, at 8:49:42
In reply to Go get em, Bob, posted by Phil on November 3, 1999, at 17:04:44
> > > Good luck on this shouldn't have to be happnin' stuff. I wouldn't want to be on their side of the desk!
Damn straight about that, Phil, and thank you for your support (whatever happened to the Bartles & James mascots anyway?). Boss and HR have managed to make me considerably angrier ... and I thought I'd already hit my peak. The anger odometer has just rolled over for the second time on this one. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Bob
Posted by Bruce on November 5, 1999, at 7:01:06
In reply to Re: Reboxetine side effects-Bruce, posted by Luke on November 3, 1999, at 18:07:59
> Bruce-
>
> Other side effects
> For the first few days I was unusually irratable. That has passed, but I am only just beginning to notice a change for the better in mood.
> At first I would find myself spacing out - not real bad, but enough to notice. That seems to be passing.
> One thing that really surprised me - for the first few days I felt quite anti-social. I was quiet, didn't have any desire to participate in conversation, etc. That is passing.
> Sometimes for an hour or two after a dose I get cold, which is unusual because I am very hot natured.
> That's really the only things I have noticed, other than the problems below the waist, which have improved. What about you?
>
> I think I am beginning to notice the increase in drive, motivation and the desire to be social that the manufaturer boasts about. I am a journalist, so self-motivation and the ability to do a of interacting with people is important.Luke -
Hope all is getting better for you. I too have been a little on the cold side, probably because an increase in norepinephrine constricts peripheral blood vessels. That plays a part in the impotence thing as well.
Mostly, I have all the anti-cholinergic side effects that I feared I would, although it's not too bad. Most irksome is the inability to pee normally. It just kinda sl-o-o-o-wly comes out.
My energy is definitely improving, a bit of insomnia. I am only on day 9, so any mood effects are likely still in the future.
Keep posting!
Bruce
Posted by Tom on November 8, 1999, at 14:12:41
In reply to Re: Reboxetine side effects-Bruce, posted by Bruce on November 5, 1999, at 7:01:06
> > Bruce-
> >
> > Other side effects
> > For the first few days I was unusually irratable. That has passed, but I am only just beginning to notice a change for the better in mood.
> > At first I would find myself spacing out - not real bad, but enough to notice. That seems to be passing.
> > One thing that really surprised me - for the first few days I felt quite anti-social. I was quiet, didn't have any desire to participate in conversation, etc. That is passing.
> > Sometimes for an hour or two after a dose I get cold, which is unusual because I am very hot natured.
> > That's really the only things I have noticed, other than the problems below the waist, which have improved. What about you?
> >
> > I think I am beginning to notice the increase in drive, motivation and the desire to be social that the manufaturer boasts about. I am a journalist, so self-motivation and the ability to do a of interacting with people is important.
>
> Luke -
>
> Hope all is getting better for you. I too have been a little on the cold side, probably because an increase in norepinephrine constricts peripheral blood vessels. That plays a part in the impotence thing as well.
>
> Mostly, I have all the anti-cholinergic side effects that I feared I would, although it's not too bad. Most irksome is the inability to pee normally. It just kinda sl-o-o-o-wly comes out.
>
> My energy is definitely improving, a bit of insomnia. I am only on day 9, so any mood effects are likely still in the future.
>
> Keep posting!
>
> Bruce
I saw a AD commercial last night made by Glaxo and they were touting their AD which had fewer sexual side effects than others. It never gave the name of the drug, but a phone # to call for info. Do they make reboxetine? Are they getting ready for a marketing blitz?
Posted by Bruce on November 8, 1999, at 14:36:25
In reply to Glaxo Welcome commercial, posted by Tom on November 8, 1999, at 14:12:41
> I saw a AD commercial last night made by Glaxo and they were touting their AD which had fewer sexual side effects than others. It never gave the name of the drug, but a phone # to call for info. Do they make reboxetine? Are they getting ready for a marketing blitz?Tom -
Glaxo Wellcome makes Wellbutrin, which does indeed have fewer sexual side effects.
Bruce
Posted by Bob on November 9, 1999, at 8:14:39
In reply to Re: Glaxo Welcome commercial, posted by Bruce on November 8, 1999, at 14:36:25
The true source of scientific information on the web and radio, here's the gold star question from the good Dr. today that, I believe, applies equally to medications for depression, etc.:
Gold Star Question:
All the medicines I've seen say they're for pain; I need something
that's against pain. Do you have any suggestions?
-- Carl Wold from Los Angeles, CA
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 9, 1999, at 15:59:17
In reply to Re: Reboxetine, posted by Luke on October 29, 1999, at 10:28:47
> I got the rebox just 13 days after emailing IAS. Somehow it made it to me very quickly, even though they had the wrong state, but correct zip code, on the package.
----------------------------------
What is IAS?
I would be grateful if you could post some information describing how to go about getting European drugs.
Thanks,
Scott
Posted by Luke on November 9, 1999, at 19:19:00
In reply to Re: Reboxetine, posted by Scott L. Schofield on November 9, 1999, at 15:59:17
IAS's website is:
http://www.smart-drugs.com/price.html
it opens up to the extensive price list.
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